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5:00 PM
@ManofOneWay He had some eye defect at birth IIRC, not entirely sure though
 
When he first got those glasses he explained he has always had a prosthetic eye, but just got a dimmed lens for it
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that's kind of what I was after.
since I use spaces for list items, and a quoted entity signify a single list item, there will always be whitespace before an opening quote.
it's more of a result of text format than requirement.
This is a more elaborate example.
I plan to do the xiph codec stuff first to try out my build system. Lot's of simple dependencies on in-tree projects criss-cross through the sources.
 
@SamDeHaan That's greedy.
* is greedy, meaning it will match as much as possible.
 
Default greediness depends on engine settings.
 
Default settings on all engines I know of have it greedy.
 
5:12 PM
Also regex sucks for parsing strings. Especially if you want escape.
 
Ell
Doesn't it need look-ahead for greedy matching?
 
What?
 
@Ell while(matches(next)) advance()
No, it doesn't.
 
Regex engines are usually backtracking.
 
Ell
but once it has matched the " character as *, it needs to know there is another " ahead of it somewhere
I think I'm mis-using the term "lookahead"
 
5:15 PM
* is a modifier, it doesn't match on its own.
 
I have a cool wildcard string matching thingie too.
 
Ell
sorry I meant .
 
It matches, until it doesn't match, then it goes back and tries next thing.
 
and a variation to match subdirectory stuff.
 
Ell
isn't the "going back" the lookahead?
 
5:17 PM
Not to be a contrarian here, but why do we need another build system? What is going to make Ambrosia better than what already exists?
 
Ell
well, the fact that it actually needed to go back
 
It might use lookahead. What does it have to do with anything, anyway?
 
Ell
I dunno - I just didn't think you needed a stack or anything for it to be a regular language
 
@JimNorton Yes, we do.
 
@JimNorton I wrote it. ;-)
 
Ell
5:17 PM
meh that didn't make sense
 
Build systems suck.
All of them.
 
31 mins ago, by rubenvb
Academic purposes.
^this too.
 
@rubenvb I know. :-)
So what about Ambrosia is going to make it different so that it doesn't "suck like all other build systems"?
 
Ell
also have you considered any other formats already? such as YAML?
 
@JimNorton simplicity, cross-platform and toolchain, no reliance on other build systems, and eventually for a wide set of languages.
 
5:20 PM
@Ell He did it for funsies.
I agree with you that the proposed format sucks
 
@rubenvb Oh ok... that is very ambitious.
 
and even XML would be better
 
Ouch.
 
wow
that's cold.
 
keke
I sure don't blame you for making it for fun, though
I did the same
 
5:22 PM
But, I don't care. Your opinion kinda doesn't matter at all whatsoever to me, because, well, you're @DeadMG from the C++ Lounge.
 
except my first language, you could do 1 = 2; print(1) and 2 would appear in the console
 
This sandwich has maximum viscosity.
 
(opinions on C++ code are obviously received with gratitude)
 
And throw throw throw throw throw throw throw throw throw throw throw throw throw throw throw.
 
hahaha
oh yeah, and that
 
5:23 PM
@DeadMG hey, Fortran has that
 
@ecatmur Had, I believe.
 
I had a class member function defined twice, once in the class, and once in a cpp file, with 100% different implementations. I feel like VS should have given me an error for that.
 
@MooingDuck VS has no obligation to warn or error on ODR violations
 
@MooingDuck why? UB is UB
 
oh, and you should be able to do: ambrosia .. libsomething:debug appusinglibsomething:release,sse
 
5:24 PM
neeeeeiiin
command line arguments are the fail
 
and have user-defined double-dash options
 
@DeadMG well, having no options at all would suck even more dontcha think?
 
no
not really
 
I have a library. use that then.
 
5:25 PM
does it have adult titles?
 
ugh
 
Setting different variant for various targets doesn't really make sense.
 
If I define my own assert macro in order to show some text, should I add that macro to a .h++ that I include whenever I need to use the assert?
 
@CatPlusPlus it does if speed is an issue for one component.
 
Not really, no.
 
5:27 PM
@FredOverflow Well played, Fred
 
@ManofOneWay probably the only way to write reusable code. In a header.
@CatPlusPlus very well, bad example. I can however add simple specific configuration to each target that may be a subproject not owned by the project being built.
 
How do you specify CFLAGS in Ambrosia?
I'm sure I'm missing something.. skimmed over docs
 
Primarily env variable. CFLAGS are compiler dependent and ugly in a cross-platform project file
But I guess I'll have to condone a CFLAGS variable.
I have conditionals for compilers, and platforms.
 
@rubenvb Yes, probably so...
 
so (gcc,clang)CFLAGS -fomit-frame-pointer
I'll try to pour the most common options in CONFIG variables that make sense.
 
5:31 PM
-ggdb
 
I'm stealing that from qmake, which in its bad behind-the-scenes architecture is pretty nice.
@JimNorton does anyone use another debugger for normal development?
(except VS and Mac with lldb)
 
@rubenvb Yes... I'd assume so...
But GDB is likely the most commonly used
Or any number of front-ends that use it.
 
@ecatmur and it gives errors for some of the more obvious UB. Yes I realize it's an error. But it's an error that is trivial for the compiler to detect. It ought to.
 
and heck, there's compiler defaults for a reason.
That one option is the least of my concern.
The patch to my libc++ test results was applied, yay.
 
user1174868
people are so stupid about the song of ice and fire series, it is incredible really
 
user1174868
5:36 PM
people who have read all the books still think this is a typical fantasy series, it is incredible, it is like someone eating ice cream and hating it
 
Ell
I was thinking for a build system, you can just have abitrary heirarchies of commands so you can go
build MyProject/Release
or
build MyProject/Server/Release
build MyProject/Client/Release
or build MyProject/*/Release
anyway piano
 
@Ell that should be kind of possible with Ambrosia once it works. <- see what I did there?
 
@rubenvb I congratulate you on embarking on an ambitious useful project.... I look forward to being able to use it on a regular basis in the future.
 
@JimNorton lol. I hope to make it usable/finished in the near future. All this took more than a year already.
and there's still a few gaping holes in the inner logic.
 
I've read quite a bit on this, but wtf was the point of -1.0 f?
 
5:49 PM
@Drise I don't know the context, so this is a complete stab in the dark: The f makes it a float instead of a double.
 
@MooingDuck you do know we just had new lighting installed, right?
 
@MooingDuck Why is it ever necessary?
 
@Drise to write a float literal, duh.
 
@Drise never really. I thought I found of a reason, but then realized float(-1.0) works just as well
 
@MooingDuck But don't literals (automagically) type cast?
 
5:53 PM
@Drise not in contexts with type deduction
template<class T> func(T val) {
     std::cout << std::numeric_limits<T>::max();
}
func(-1.0);
func(-1.0f);
 
@MooingDuck Example? (This context was float myfloat = -1.0f;, btw)
 
@Drise that's just being pedantic.
Nothing wrong with it really.
 
@rubenvb Obnoxious, personally.
 
@Drise in that context, a really stupid compiler might call a conversion at runtime. But in reality, it just removes compiler warnings.
 
@Drise consistent at least.
there's suffixes for integers of different types and sizes too.
 
5:57 PM
@Drise I'd rather have that than a compiler warning. My project at work compiles without warnings except where it includes headers/files from other projects.
 
I hate projects that make their releases compile with -Werror or /WX
 
@MooingDuck Include those via -isystem to get rid of the warning
 
Compiler updates make the build break after a couple of years of dust-gathering.
 
@Drise Explicit is better than implicit. I’d actually prefer writing auto x = 1.0f; to float x = 1.0;. The former explicitly has the type in the expression, where it matters – the latter has the wrong (= mismatching) type in the expression, even if the compiler coerces it
 
@rubenvb me too, but even if someone activated that flag, most of my code would compile.
 
6:01 PM
@MooingDuck You can't know that for GCC 5.0, or Clang 3.4, or MSVC 14.
 
@rubenvb no, if someone activated that flag, most of my code would still compile with my compiler.
 
not to mention x86->x64 warning-becomes-error stuff on Windows.
@MooingDuck ah. Better. And selfish :P
 
@rubenvb this code is MSVC8 only.
 
@MooingDuck I would hate to be you.
MSVC8 is a sucky C, and a sucky C++ compiler by today's standards.
 
@rubenvb I can live with C++03, it's just irritating to remember when I can and cannot not to return large objects by value. (home vs work)
 
6:05 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Doh, /fail
 
But how can you miss the lambda's?!?!?! :P
 
@rubenvb I make a functionoid. It's more typing, but it's not significantly harder.
 
@MooingDuck true, but you'll miss mutable and need more global variables if you want anything fancy.
 
flump
 
without lambdas you can't write code like this - begin_async_some(..., [&]{ ...end some; });
 
6:12 PM
@rubenvb I rarely need anything fancy. And by rare I mean once.
 
github should give more file storage space for binary releases.
 
@Jordan It's a pretty mediocre series, as far as quality fantasy goes.
 
I'm sure they'll be more than happy to get you a quota on more storage.
 
@CatPlusPlus hehe. I'll stick to sourceforge for that :)
 
They're pretty OS-friendly, though, so if you have that, you might just ask and get it.
I should finally learn git properly.
 
6:20 PM
lol fail at conversion to his build system: projects.blender.org/tracker/…
 
@MooingDuck Aha. Now I think I get it. In the very same way I defend the use of command lines and make(-like) tools: there's a reason I use them, even if the implementations are flawed :)
 
user1174868
@SamDeHaan Why do you think that? I hate fantasy and I actually like it
 
Discworld is the bestest.
2
 
Why doesn't this work? ideone.com/30xZo
 
@CatPlusPlus I do love reading Discworld. Vimes is the man.
 
6:30 PM
Isn't it possible to use the assign operator with vectors?
 
@rubenvb what do you mean? The patch to >fix< the test results? Linky? Or is it hidden somewhere in that giant page?
 
@ManofOneWay a = (10, std::vector<bool>(10));. I don't think it's actually valid syntax.
 
You're assigning std::vector<bool> to std::vector<std::vector<bool>>.
 
@ManofOneWay Of course
 
This does not do what you think it does.
@EtiennedeMartel It's valid.
 
6:31 PM
Oh, the comma operator!
 
@sehe no, the patch was to update the test results. The percentages somewhere near the top are interesting.
 
It's equivalent to 10; a = std::vector<bool>(10);
 
Indeed, it doesn't do what he wants.
 
You want a.assign(10, std::vector<bool>(10));.
 
    a.assign(10, std::vector<bool>(10));
 
6:31 PM
and init is silly.
 
And what he said.
 
Duplicate :)
 
SILLY, HE TELLS YA.
 
Ah thanks :)
 
Get yourself some RAII.
 
6:32 PM
Should I allocate on the heap in this case instead?
 
What are you trying to do?
 
I want to use this 2d vector in a class and then throw it away. And I don't know initially how big the vector will be
this class do some operations on the 2d vector in different methods
once it is complete I don't need the 2d vector anymore
 
@ManofOneWay if you don't know the size, put it on the heap
 
A std::vector uses the heap.
And I don't see a class.
 
I guess I should use a unique pointer then since it will only be inside that class
 
6:34 PM
If you allocate std::vector itself dynamically, you're dumb.
 
no @two above.
 
Also, 2D vectors are bad.
 
I need to have a 2d bitvector
In some way
 
Jagged and possibly cache unfriendly.
Use x*y 1D vector, or specialised multi-dim container.
 
@ManofOneWay boost has a matrix class that's good, and R.Martinho's "wheels" library has one as well
 
6:36 PM
But really, bitmap? What for?
 
@Jordan I've only read the first book, so my opinion is based on incomplete information... but it's really, really boring. There's many reasons for that, but I can't list them for you, because I was so thoroughly unimpressed by the book that I don't even remember any of it.
 
Matrix --> Eigen
 
@Collecter Wizards rule.
 
@MooingDuck wheels has a matrix library?
 
Eigen probably won't do bitmaps.
 
6:37 PM
@CatPlusPlus Unless it's microsoft wizards
 
@bamboon how else will it rotate its wheels?
 
user1174868
@SamDeHaan That is too bad I really liked the first book, just the gritty realism of it is what hooked me
 
@rubenvb SFINAE blackmagic?
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm computing a block order in a CFG, and want to see if the a block is within a loop, the first dimension are the loops, the other dimension are the blocks that could be inside a loop. If the block is within a loop then I set true for that block.
 
@bamboon Good point. Can't seem to find anything matrix related in the headers. Meh.
 
6:38 PM
And how many of those things you have to warrant a bitmap?
 
Dat bit.
 
@Jordan 'gritty realism' is code word for unrealistic and unnecessarily excessive violence.
 
@bamboon I checked, it doesn't
 
Dunno about the books, but GoT is fine.
Not family friendly, but fine anyway.
 
@CatPlusPlus I like sourcerers more than wizards.
 
6:40 PM
I don't mean that I have anything against violence
 
@CatPlusPlus As big as a function could get, including loops and blocks
 
user1174868
@SamDeHaan I didn't get that out of the books at all, by gritty I meant that there are no fairy princesses or valiant heroes, there are just thousands of shades of grey in a morally ambiguous world where everyone is just trying to do what is in their own best interest
 
I mean it was used to blind readers to the quality of the story.
 
user1174868
I like the story, I think GRRM is a really good author actually, but I haven't read the first books in years so I can only cite examples from the newest book but I won't because of spoilers
 
@Jordan no, there's definitely a few bad people. Cersi for one. She's greedy and has no good side other than she loves her children.
 
user1174868
6:42 PM
@MooingDuck I could argue this for a while, but I don't think Cersei is a bad person, just an ambitious woman who acts like many other ambitious men but is overly paranoid
 
@Jordan Well, maybe I remember it wrong. That's what stuck with me, anyway.
 
Everyone in that universe is a dick. Those who aren't, die.
 
Why do people always misspell "I'm lazy"? It's not "I can't".
 
What, where.
 
user1174868
I like the show a lot but it feels much different than the books
 
6:44 PM
@SamDeHaan Good to know :)
 
Alrighty, I just ran into this, but are streams not overloaded for Inf?
 
@Drise ? Is Inf a type?
 
@sehe Harr.
 
@Drise that wouldn't be an "overload"
@sehe float I assume
 
user1174868
Does anyone want a guild wars 2 beta weekend event key? I have a spare
 
6:45 PM
@MooingDuck Me too, that's why '?' - can't overload for a value
 
Input: -inf
cin >> mydouble;
cout << bool(cin);
 
@Drise I think the spec merely says that it has to accept whatever it streamed out and get the same value or something.
 
I would expect it to display false.
 
@CatPlusPlus Had a discussion with a buddy of mine enrolled in college, they're just way too cute. Everytime they find a bump in the road, everyone is ready to jump ship.
 
@Drise why would it display false? it read in the value just fine. I think you got your logic backwards.
 
6:46 PM
@Drise std::cout << std::boolalpha << false << std::endl;
 
@MooingDuck I don't think so. I'm almost sure my streams are failing.
@sehe Har har.
 
std::gonorrhea
 
@MooingDuck Attempted to paint a line with <2 points. Which means the file reading stream failed.
 
@MooingDuck Why would you think it'd parse "-inf"? Pretty sure it doesn't. Link to docs?
 
@Drise if the streams were failing, it would display false. you say it's not, which means it's not failing.
@Drise that message means nothing to me, I've never seen anything like it before. Why would that mean the stream failed?
 
6:49 PM
@MooingDuck No. it would display '0', not 'false'.
3 mins ago, by sehe
@Drise std::cout << std::boolalpha << false << std::endl;
 
@MooingDuck no-assumptions.org ?
 
@MooingDuck One sec
 
ideone.com/3Dv9F @MooingDuck @Drise
 
@sehe I vaguely recall a discussion where people said the docs said it should have the same behavior that printf did, and printf says whatever it puts out it should be able to read back in. Though "-inf" seems unlikely.
 
6:51 PM
 
@MooingDuck So, if it is unlikely, why argue the inverse. See my SSCCE :)
 
@Drise "Inf" isn't valid input.
 
@MooingDuck cout prints it.
 
Pretty clear case. The stream said it isn't okay, because... it isn't
@Drise HUH?
It's an unitialized value
 
@sehe If you have a double that is infinity, cout prints Inf
 
6:53 PM
@Drise testing
 
@Drise Nice. Now, find the docs to state the inverse is supported
 
@sehe That was @MooingDuck's argument.
 
@Drise I just tested. No it doesn't.
 
@MooingDuck Then how did I print 5.000000e-02 90.000000 0.000000 -29.610361 -0.356717 -365.269454 -0.356114 -365.269511 -0.356123 -Inf 0.000000?
 
and in my test it won't stream in what it streamed out, so I was mistaken apperently.
 
6:55 PM
For all the #StackOverflow 10k'ers out there: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11405398/turn-on-browsers-javascript
 
@MooingDuck Actually, it might be documented in 7.19.6.1, p8 of C99.
 
@CatPlusPlus Sigh. need moar reps QQ
 
> Is there a possibility to turn on users javascript with JS, if the users browsers javascript is turned off? if yes how do I do that?
 
Oh, saw it before it was 10k
 
Slowbear.
 
6:56 PM
Stop duplicating me :)
 
@CatPlusPlus You're joking.
 
My name is Cat Plus Plus and I'm a registered feline offender.
2
 
@Drise @MooingDuck related DR on Apache libstdcxx issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STDCXX-239
 
I'm going through my Twitter followers list and wondering who the hell half of them are.
Apparently even someone from MSFT.
 
6:58 PM
@CatPlusPlus I believe my RL self is there as a not-duck
I hate how my iPod locks up until I force it to restart when it's plugged into my computer when Windows restarts.
 

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