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12:00 PM
I, for one, welcome our new Windows XP overlords.
 
@DeadMG oh. i been off-net
 
I mean, most developers had no reason to upgrade from 2010 should they lose XP support.
 
It's a friggin' day old
 
People should really get with the times, Windows 7 is gold.
Windows 8 is the new Vista, so they could bitch about it for a change.
 
I added a .user file to VCS and I liked it.
 
12:03 PM
Why is 8 the new vista? You haven't even seen it.
 
It's not gonna be the new Vista, but later Window OS will be referred to as: This is like the new 8!.
 
It's a metrosexualized Windows 7 repeating the same mistakes like Vista.
Luckily, they managed to back out of forcing people to pay for developing desktop applications.
Reminded me of them selling DirectX 10 on Vista-only.
 
@DomagojPandža well, that was a decent move IMHO. New driver architecture and all.
 
DirectX 10 was a failure, empty promises.
 
@rubenvb didn't you you checkout the dev/beta/rc preview?
 
12:06 PM
I agree that a new driver architecture was necessary, but the way they were selling it sucked.
 
@bamboon of course, but that does not quite reflect the full product IMHO. Just like the VS2012 is getting a makeover at release time as well.
 
The only good thing was the fact they managed to get their caps forced on all dx10-enabled adapters.
 
@DomagojPandža True. DX10 was sucky. DX10.1 was better, but NVIDIA boycotted that. DX11 is what DX10 should have been.
 
A homeless guy finds a bag with $66k, first thing he does - buys a car. Logic win.
 
Hahahahah :D Well, he's always wanted to have a nice car :D
 
12:22 PM
I'm still waiting for information regarding x64 compilers and tools in the Free VS stuff.
The Windows SDK used to contain the x64 bits. Never an Express edition.
 
that's pretty much the ONLY thing that I'm thankful to my uni for :)
free visual studio and all that
 
Any one have used concrete class ?
 
@ScarletAmaranth I have access too. I just never wanted to install 5+GB for something I can use the SDK for.
 
@rubenvb Honestly, 5+gb is the last thing I concern myself with :)
 
@prjndhi Yeah, why?
 
12:25 PM
@ScarletAmaranth It's mostly the .Net framework and other crud I require :) What can I say. I'm a bit ocd when it comes to my installed software list.
 
classes would be kinda pointless if you didn't have concrete ones
 
A concrete class is a class that you can instantiate an instance of.
 
Ell
hi guys
 
@RadekSlupik :in which Situation u need to use concrete class ?
 
@rubenvb I always end up clicking next vigorously till the sodding thing works :)
 
12:26 PM
@prjndhi Pretty much all of them.
 
@prjndhi When you want to create an object that's not of a fundamental type.
 
I have never use it so,i am asking about it.
 
A concrete class is a class that is not an abstract class.
You probably used one.
std::string is a concrete class, for example.
Or std::vector<int>.
 
Isn't std::vector<int> a class template specialization? ;)
 
Doesn't matter; it's concrete.
 
12:35 PM
Concrete? Isn't that the stuff you use to erect buildings?
 
Fuck yeah, my IDE works.
Well, it shows a window with an empty list of files.
@FredOverflow Non-abstract = concrete.
 
Ell
that's an IDE, to be sure
 
concrete
adjective |känˈkrēt, ˈkänˌkrēt, kənˈkrēt|
existing in a material or physical form; real or solid; not abstract.
@Ell This is what I have now. :P
 
That's supposed to be an IDE? :)
 
You said that right. Supposed to be.
But you know, I just started.
 
12:37 PM
Good job. I'm usually too mindblocked to start any real projects :)
 
That's some hardcore shit right there. :Đ
 
I once wanted to write an IDE. Then I figured Qt Creator was already Awesome (except for project file management, qmake or cmake) and I decided not to.
 
I'm going to start with the editor. Fucking pain in the ass.
 
Indefinitely Definite Emptiness
 
@RadekSlupik I once wrote an editor in GWBasic.
 
12:39 PM
I'm writing this one in Ruby and Objective-C.
EditorView.rb:3: Can't change the value of self
    self = super
          ^
 
Ell
@RadekSlupik you started when? also, what parts ruby, what objective-c ?
 
WTF?
 
It refuses to accept how super self is.
 
@Ell I need to interface with libclang and I need to do that in Objective-C.
 
Ell
@RadekSlupik why is that wtf? you can't change self?
 
12:42 PM
In Objective-C it's perfectly legal to do self = [super initWithFrame:frame], but apparently in Ruby self is a constant.
 
Ell
yeah
 
Wow. Ruby is not Objective-C.
 
Which makes me think of the following. In C++, is this of type T* or T* const?
 
@RadekSlupik Depends on who's asking, ie the const-ness of the member function
 
Ell
i don't know objective-c, does it have value semantics?
 
12:43 PM
@rubenvb a non-const member function.
 
@RadekSlupik It's an rvalue, so you can't assign to it anyway.
 
Note I'm asking if the pointer is const, not what it points to.
 
the const-ness of the member function makes it const T* or T*, but the pointer itself is an rvalue.
 
So this = nullptr; is illegal?
 
@RadekSlupik obviously.
 
12:44 PM
Oh ok.
 
Ell
@RadekSlupik so are you doing GUI with ruby?
 
Yeah.
 
Ell
what library? shoes?
 
AppKit
 
Ell
gtkruby? wxruby? o.O
oh. So that means not cross-platform?
 
12:46 PM
No.
 
@RadekSlupik Unfortunately, many books claim that this is const.
@DeadMG You can't assign to it because it is a scalar rvalue.
 
with rvalue *this in C++11, that's not really strictly true, as any type can be made unassignable to when rvalue.
 
Sure, if anybody bothers to do that. With scalars, OTOH, the language always guarantees it.
 
Yeah text editor and undo works.
 
well, yes, but the fact that it isn't doable has nothing to do with scalars and everything to do with the fact that somebody disallowed assigning to rvalues of that type
it just so happens that for scalars, "somebody" is the Standard text itself rather than a type author
 
12:51 PM
Standard is a great guy.
Microsoft disrespects him for some reason.
 
@DomagojPandža Hows the kyrostat.com coming along ?
 
we have IRC for Kyrostat-related stuff
 
PHP pains my eyes, but progress is palpable.
 
I still stand by the simple fact MS should just piggy-back on LLVM and implement their ABI in it, and write a cl-compatible clang frontend.
 
agree
 
12:53 PM
Way too much pride for that in the Microsoft camp, though.
 
@rubenvb But $$$!
 
All their C++11 problems will be poof!-gone
 
it would be easier for them to extend Clang than maintain cl now, and it would be more beneficial for all involved
 
@RadekSlupik hey, they could still sell the result! And I wouldn't care.
 
Does Microsoft actually ever use open-source software?
 
12:54 PM
Then the community can ask and ask them again to put the ABI stuff in LLVM, for all i care they can leave the rest out.
@RadekSlupik yes, they published a series of linux patches for their hypervisor.
 
@rubenvb With the other IDE offerings on Windows, it wouldn't be hard for VS backed by Clang to easily be the best on Windows.
 
And they have their own open source software.
 
in fact, they would probably be the best IDE/compiler combination, full stop.
 
@rubenvb no, I mean use, not make.
 
@DeadMG But... Not going to happen. :(
 
12:55 PM
VS is the best IDE i've ever come across.
 
There's probably lots of old BSD stuff in Windows.
 
@DomagojPandža Oh well. That's why I write Wide :P
 
How about a petition?
 
Puppy will push C++ away from the market with Wide :D
(True Story ™)
 
I'd sign it.
 
12:56 PM
to be honest
given the state of C++, it really wouldn't be that hard
 
Given the state of C++ now with C++11, it would ;)
 
Wide is way better than C++11 and all I'd have to do is offer a usable IDE, and it'd be an easy win
@ScarletAmaranth Not really.
C++11 is polishing a turd, and there's only so shiny you can make it
 
Actually, it's trying to remove a lot of the turd :)
 
C++11 is not really a breakthrough, it is just a welcome addition that should've happened many years ago.
 
they can't remove the turd
that would be breaking backwards compatibility with infinity programs
 
12:57 PM
Like Apple introducing copy and paste on iOS.
 
That's damn handy.
 
and if you did remove the turd, you'd basically be left with Wide anyway
 
Ell
@DeadMG wide is way better than c++11? currently? or when finished?
 
Yeah I don't think C++11 is a breakthrough either, but it's one hell of a usable language right now.
 
It's not really hard to beat something, people don't like change, it's simple.
 
12:58 PM
@Ell Well, arguably, it can't actually be better than c++11 as a language because it's not implemented yet :P
 
Ell
I don't know anything other than c++11 :L
@DeadMG ahh I see :L
 
but as a specification right now, assuming no disasters turn up that I've forgotten or something, then it's easily miles ahead
 
The only thing holding C++ is old glory, there are tons of places for improvement.
 
Ell
what makes in so miles ahead?
 
well, let me see
no fucking headers or preprocessor
 

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