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00:04
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
Basically, as I think through the process, mutible UTF7 strings just seems significantly harder than I have any urge to attempt to program. Mission failed.
It's so much more practical to manipulate UTF32, and then translate to whatever you want.
What have people been telling you for the past X time?
00:29
obtw robot
uploaded new version of Wide specification
@MooingDuck @RMartinhoFernandes the bad thing about the flushing iterator is what the buffer value is expected to be at the time that it is read. so you can say *it = x and then read *it at some later time, it doesn't what time after the write is committed as long as it happens before the subsequent read...
@DeadMG Cool, will look at it soon.
take your time, cause it's sleepy-sleepy time for me
@endoalir That's exactly what he said.
Ok, good night, then.
00:33
@RMartinhoFernandes but I didn't know how much harder it was. I had an idea. My idea was accurate for utf8/16le/16be/32le/32be/ascii. Just not utf7.
No love for 32me? :P
I thought std::stringstream ss; std::cin >> ss; would work :/
@Mahesh hi
@MooingDuck ss << std::cin.rdbuf();
I know preprocessor hacks can be used for concatenation. Are there any thing similar for splitting too ?
00:35
If it's not in Boost.PP, I doubt there is.
@MooingDuck Btw, what kind of interface did you end up with?
@Mahesh: What potentially evil use of the preprocessor have you come up with this time? :-)
@RMartinhoFernandes @Insilico I was just thinking that if language authors came up with the idea of concatenation using PP, why didn't they come up for splitting too ?
@Mahesh: Because the C++ preprocessor sucks.
Pretty much it.
use Lift and Split Dynamics
00:38
Ok.
@RMartinhoFernandes basically just like std::basic_string, except it took a utf_traits instead of char_traits, which had the functions that let it read/write to it's internal std::string in the right encryption. The utf_traits mostly just had template<base_iterator> make_in_iterator(base_iterator iter);.
The Duck is pink today.
And beak is yellow.
@Insilico I'm a slowpoke today
@MooingDuck: I'm not seeing the connection between pink and slowness
00:42
@MooingDuck Well, half of one.
Slowpoke and Slowbro, known in Japan as and , are Pokémon species in Nintendo and Game Freak's Pokémon franchise. Created by Ken Sugimori, they first appeared in the video games Pokémon Red and Blue and subsequent sequels, later appearing in various merchandise, spinoff titles and animated and printed adaptations of the franchise. Concept and characteristics Slowpoke and Slowbro were two of several different designs conceived by Game Freak's character development team and finalized by Ken Sugimori for the first generation of Pocket Monsters games Red and Green, which were localized outs...
Oh gawd, there's a wikipedia page for this.
@RMartinhoFernandes: That's the ugliest duck I've ever seen. :-P
Yes. I believe it was brought up when that whole "we're deleting programming languages" thing.
@CatPlusPlus: Is there a context behind the "deleting programming languages" thing?
Some people on Wiki decided that some programming languages are not noteworthy or something.
It was a year ago or so.
I see.
00:46
Wiki deletionists are silly people.
has anyone here made anything interesting in D?
@CatPlusPlus Somewhat related:
Occasionally, even experienced lose their heads and devote every waking moment to over the most trivial thing. This page documents our lamest examples. It isn't comprehensive or authoritative, but it serves as a showcase of situations where people lose sight of the big picture and obsessively expend huge amounts of energy fighting over something that, in the end, isn't really so important. Back in the good old days, people would just get out their swords and guns and fight a duel; nowadays physical combat has been replaced by careful inciting of , strategic templating and , timel...
@endoalir You're asking what things people have made in D in a C++ chatroom?
@Insilico To be fair, I think most people that know of and use D are from C++.
@GManNickG True, although there is a certain subset of C++ people that thinks D is some bastardized version of C++ or something
00:51
@Insilico More like a washed and scrubbed version!
I wonder what C++ would look like if backwards compatibility was not a requirement
the question about the preprocessor reminds me of this project h3.gd/ctrace which apparently shows off some meta programming things you can do in D. really, I hate how you need a preprocessor at all
D somehow doesn't convince me that it's better.
@endoalir Actually I don't mind having a preprocessor per se
It's just that the preprocessor implementation in C++ sucks
Template Haskell FTW.
00:53
Doesn't respect scope, not aware of language features, etc.
A namespace-aware CPP would improve it immensely
But the preprocessor runs before the actual C++ compiler runs so that's not possible without severe modification of the C++ compiler
And what about being able to handle things like tuple<int, double> as a single argument?
Nah. Still too primitive.
Namespacing is not really that much of an issue.
@CatPlusPlus: True, but it's still an improvement.
Very tiny one.
if you need to preprocess a file to express something that you can't express easily in C++, wouldn't it be better to fix C++ instead so that you don't have to preprocess the file in the first place? that's one thing about D I like
00:56
@endoalir No, because fixing anything in C++ requires 10 years for ISO to get their stuff together
hey guys
I'm quite back
@DeadMG: Welcome back!
C++ is a really static language, there will always be something that requires codegen to be easy.
one, I'm kinda sick, and two, I just came up with quite a genius idea
00:57
@DeadMG: Amaze us
oh, I think you'll agree
well, actually, you'll probably bring up some flaw I didn't notice
I am feeling pretty sick ATM so that's more than possible
Is it about SHA-2?
00:58
@CatPlusPlus Although to be fair, I haven't needed a codegen for even the most complicated C++ applications (yet).
I'm pretty sure I can solve subset sum in something like O(pn^3) time
I'm using it all the time. Codegen is wonderful.
@DeadMG: We're talking about this, right?
In computer science, the subset sum problem is an important problem in complexity theory and cryptography. The problem is this: given a set of integers, is there a non-empty subset whose sum is zero? For example, given the set { −7, −3, −2, 5, 8}, the answer is yes because the subset { −3, −2, 5} sums to zero. The problem is NP-complete. An equivalent problem is this: given a set of integers and an integer s, does any non-empty subset sum to s? Subset sum can also be thought of as a special case of the knapsack problem. One interesting special case of s...
yep
it's actually quite simple
ow, my intestines
well if all the numbers are positive, then the answer is trivially "no"
01:01
@DeadMG You know this solves P = NP, right?
@CheersandhthAlf Also if all the numbers are negative
@GManNickG That's what makes me a genius.
@Insilico Actually, there's an equivalent NP-complete problem, which is where the integers are all non-negative, and you are trying to find some sum S.
lol, it's what should make you pretty sure it's wrong. :P
there's no proof that P != NP
besides, I'm sick, can't sleep, and got nothin better to do
you're thinking of sorting and indirection
but it won't h3lp
sorry
01:03
there is sorting but no indirection
oh you always need indirection for computer science problems
so anyway
the algorithm goes as follows: sort input into ascending order
then split input based on whether they're odd or even
now if the target sum is odd, you know you can only take so many odd numbers
or, indeed, if it's even
i think the error must be in the "indeed" :-)
and then you effectively recurse on to the next bit in a similar manner
let's say all the numbers are even
01:06
you split each of the previous sets depending on whether the next bit is 1 or 0
and you can establish another constraint on the possible solution
the reason why it's less than exponential is because each set must have at least one member to have meaning, you can prune all the empty sets
If I had a good Haskell C++ parser, I'd plug Haskell into C++ codegen duty.
so the maximum number of sets is n, or n^2
@CatPlusPlus There's a libclang module.
Which probably doesn't even build on Windows.
Afk, getting water.
01:07
Besides, I'd rather have pure Haskell solution.
then once you have all the non-empty sets, you have all their constraints, so you can simply pick a solution out of your arse
but the parity of a particular number wouldn't make a difference @DeadMG, only the parity of the sum of a given set in the sequence
parity...? isn't that hardware error checking shit?
@CatPlusPlus seen it
Parity: odd or even.
01:11
@endoalir You don't sum them directly. It's a constraint.
i.e., you must have N from the even set, but only odd or even from the odd set
if you want to think about it you could generalize to infinite R-complements form in radix R numeral systems, because then you have no negative numbers are such.
i think one reason why it doesn't work well is that each constraint is weak
and another reason is that carries from the low digit sums spill over into higher digit positions, complicating things?
alright, using the example set from the wiki page:{ −7, −3, −2, 5, 8}. it's already sorted. so how would picking individual even and odd numbers help you solve for this set
13 mins ago, by DeadMG
@Insilico Actually, there's an equivalent NP-complete problem, which is where the integers are all non-negative, and you are trying to find some sum S.
in the year 3991 A.D
Vikings will surprise attack
often with nuclear weapons.
soo...
anybody good with dx10 shader pipes?
01:21
I think an optimization for this subset sum problem would involve statistically ruling out ranges of possible subsets
I'mma ask a question on SO for disproofs
@CatPlusPlus no no. the only nuclear reactors in norway are two "research" reactors from like 1950's. that's the time when we also delved into computers and was 3rd country in world to have Arpanet connection (after Israel, disregarding Hawaii)
they'll be more educated than you gremlins
we lost it
in early 1970's
hm, i must sleep
hmm, i'm having a bit of a debate about mutability
01:23
vikings had rape quests
do you folks also often stumble upon things that you need for work?
thats manly
i always do that
brb need the shitty
@moshbear This a debate with yourself or with someone else?
01:23
with myself
it's so stupid, it makes me think i'm dumb, for not recognizing those things as useful earlier, or just thinking about it earlier
i have a tempfile class which does file deletion in the dtor but i've added a bool _is_perm to not delete if needed
Okay, so what's the problem?
Fact: we start sentences with a capital letter.
only if you are a cat
01:24
Really.
@KarliRaudsepp Last time I remembered I'm a Homo Sapien.
the issue here is that using _is_perm doesn't change the behavior of the class that uses it (i.e. it's externally write-only), but it does affect the tempfile's dtor
note that capital letter is mostly redundant. that's why programs can auto-capitalize first letters of sentences.
what if im not starting a sentence but just keep on rolling the same one forever
01:25
so it's in violation of the no-redundancy rule
@CheersandhthAlf It's an aid, not a solution.
@CheersandhthAlf English is not known for being the most logical and efficient language.
if i don't render it mutable, i get tons of const cast errors
Oh gawd, const_cast.
no, more like "no match found for conversion const T& to T"
01:27
@moshbear Actually I would disagree. Changing _is_perm does change the behavior of the class
It changes what happens when you delete an instance of the class
That's quite a difference
it's more for debugging and to avoid copying to persistent storage (e.g. file uploads)
@DeadMG you could pick any subset of even negatives, you know that any sum of that subset is positive, and therefore any sum of any subset of even positives would give you the answer. but then, after that, you have the same for any subset of odd negatives or odd positives too...
in terms of behavior, it's orthogonal to all the public and protected members and methdods
does anybody know if i can use a structured buffer as a resource in vertex shader if the buffer was created with UAV flag aswell (even though vshader only has SRV to it)
I'm pretty sure that I might have misplaced some carry bits
01:36
hence, what constitutes logical constness is the question here
@DeadMG even still, doing that would reduce the computation time by an order of magnitude
I think your method works
@Insilico wrapping the handle in a shared_ptr is on my to-do list
> This is a short question but I had to attach this sentence to meet so called "quality standards".
however, multiple instances of a file handle is never a good idea
in either case, the object doesn't care about the permanence state at all; it's only the tempfile's dtor that reads the value
@DeadMG but I think that it is still polynomial time though
01:51
bah, as much as i want to leave for home, i'll be disconnected, and unlike irc, i just can't put this inside a $screen session
@moshbear Not a problem at all. When you come back, you can read everything you missed.
02:18
Yeah, it keeps a log on its own.
And persists pings, too.
Makes IRC-style idling obsolete.
02:47
Is it very weird that I use programmers' text editors to take class notes?
The "code" folding is pretty useful. >_>
No, why?
03:03
VIM everywhere
@Maxpm What else would you use?
@Pubby Some WYSIWYG.
vim is WYSIWG.
Huh. I guess it is.
What I mean is a heavy word processor, like Word.
if it reduces productivity... plus code folding is a nice thing to have during a 2hr lecture
03:10
"Heavy word processing" is funny
You don't need formatting for taking notes.
In fact, it's better to not be distracted by stupid things WYSIWYGs like to do.
what do you use?
I'm using Sublime Text 2 now.
Did you invest or are you on the trial?
Trial.
I really, really wish it were pay-what-you-want.
03:27
thats the dream...
:\
Pfft, just use vim.
All those wannabe paid editors cannot match the power of vim anyway (well, or Emacs, if that's your thing).
I do use VIM, i switched 3 months ago from using notepad++. that was a fun week.
I don't like CLI editors, and the Vim and Emacs GUIs are pretty fugly.
A GUI for editing text?
03:36
could swing with GVim
Except all the buttons are distracting.
but if you want a GUI then buttons you shall receive
:set guioptions-=T
@Pubby Yep. I'm weird like that.
Thank you kindly @R. Martinho still gonna stick in my plain old vim
What buttons?
CLI sucks, it's too limited.
It's good for SSH editing, not for long work.
set guioptions=eR and there's only tabline and scroll bar.
in gvim there are undo/redo buttons, along with stuff you'd see in kate or other editors.
03:57
@CatPlusPlus the buttons on the keyboard, of course
psh mine has 3, 0, 1, and enter
04:26
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Days without a topic change: 0 [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [c++-fuq]
04:48
@Pubby yep, with tooltips, etc
Kam
Kam
anyone here experianced with boost msm library?
^ tooltips like this
I really can't imagine how people can use console-based UI
05:48
@RadekSlupik Are you still using fixed bit rates? Those are sooooo deprecated.
06:00
I think there is no talking about c++11 here ;) — Alanir Alonedaw 12 mins ago
C++11 is the current standard, isn't it? — FredOverflow 22 secs ago
When will "C++" mean "C++11"?
When compilers enable it by default
06:25
When people stop using outdated compilers (hiyo, MSVC).
Well, and old GCCs.
06:39
i wonder how many people used preprocessor hacks as an alternative to pre-4.7 gcc's __cplusplus
as in GCC_EXPERIMENTAL_CPLUSPLUS or the like
bah, _ _ GCC_..._PLUS _ _
speaking of c++11, i wonder if clang can compile my code without standard library errors
but before vimming build.sh, i need to compile 3.1
06:55
@moshbear the complexity of the language is such that still as of 2012 both g++ and msvc have many severe bugs in their implementations of basic language features
at least gcc is improving at a quicker pace than msvc
also, if i remember correctly, there are parts of c99 that gcc still hasn't implemented
@DomagojPandža from which time zone?
The void* is a C-ism, the get prefix is a Java-ism, and the indentation of the second example is inconsistent (i.e. wrong). This indicates that your description of the problem context, is not necessarily complete or relevant at all. Try to reproduce the problem in a minimal but complete program, and if it's still there after doing that, post the program here. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 1 min ago
^ No takers as yet on the question.
07:03
@DomagojPandža makes sense; I'm in UTC-0400 and wondering why somebody would say "morning" at 03:00
Morning is when you wake up.
Regardless of the time.
I need to find some other form of entertainment xd
It was interesting at first, now it's just tedious.
@CatPlusPlus which is why anywhere between noon and 14:00 is the start of morning
I woke up at 22 yesterday.
@DomagojPandža link? google is being inefficient
07:07
Waking up at 22 is seriously disorienting.
@moshbear For what? :D
Als
Als
i woke up at 8.45
@DomagojPandža SIL
Oh, SIL is mine, I work on it when I'm terribly bored.
Between having the will to do actual work and replaying Max Payne 3. :Đ
do you have it hosted on a (git|svn|hg|...) repo?
ye olde brainf*** is getting a bit old
I'll have it up in a few days, but it's really a forceful language. It serves almost no purpose beyond exercising my brain. :D
07:10
eh, might as well get a copy of the dragon book and reinvent the wheel known as gnu bc
i'll afk for a bit; my fingers are itching for some paganini on guitar, and i'm a bit hungry
@moshbear Oooh. Violin transcriptions, the violin/guitar 'duets' or are there paganinni pieces for guitar proper? (I know he played the guitar too)
@Abyx Because (a) you can have the same information (but better, copy/pasteable/autocompleting) (b) a lot faster (c) on any system, remotely or locally. Just to name the first things that come to mind
@Kam experienced in the sense that I tried it and couldn't make heads or tails of it. Too generic for my taste and also inconsistent usage styles (the docs mix the old and new styles)
@FredOverflow Deprecated? You mean, out-moded, not in vogue? Popular taste doesn't say anything much about true merit. Hell, the Cat even likes his mp3s at 64kbit. Case closed.
@CatPlusPlus The scrollbar being precisely one of those things you can do without. I use guioptions=agi, and I frequently use it in fullscreen (windowmanager Win+F11).
07:36
@sehe Now I've noticed it's on only when there's vertical split.
@sehe naw, i just sightread the sheet music as implicit 8vb; cello pieces are played 8vb if it's written violin-like (e.g. popper's elfentanz) or as-is; i also do cello pieces on bass, some 8va (to cancel out the 8vb) or as written
I'm too lazy to change it anyway.
@CatPlusPlus What's the ratiionale behind 'set numberwidth=6 relativenumber`? Is your screen so big that >= 100000 lines will fit on screen with a monospace 11pt font and normal linespace?
@moshbear You play double bass?
It was 6 before I used relativenumber.
@sehe electric bass; i played c-bass in high school and got pretty good at it, but the intervals are a bit wide for my hands (octave on piano is major third on c-bass at home row)
i'll get around to cello when i'll get around to cello
also, back pain because it was hard to keep a good posture playing standing up for a few hours straight
07:40
@CatPlusPlus I like your listchars. I'll be too lazy for that. My vimrc is basically this:
ar aw nowr nowrapscan hls cuc cul ts=4 sw=4 et scrolloff=2 showcmd mouse=a go=agi nu complete-=i
behave xterm
colors koehler
I have it here, if you want to copy paste anything: bitbucket.org/piotrlegnica/vimrc
@moshbear I can't imagine how cello pieces would sound on electric. I'm guessing you mean things like 'Double'-s from the bach partitas?
@CatPlusPlus That helps. I'll crib the listchars (and the modeline to make that stick) thank you :)
@sehe it sounds richer and thicker, but it's naturally harder to articulate; you really need to control the sustain
also, stay away from double stops unless it's on the top two strings
or you're doing 5ths/8ths
@moshbear Buy a 5/6 string. Profit :)
i have ample range with 8vb cello tuning
07:43
Good thing 5ths are a ways easier than on cello, I guess :)
(Ah well, probably have frets on bass anyway)
my only gripe is not having 24 frets
yellow
quickly going from fretting to harmonics is not fun
@moshbear Some of the more exciting bass players seem to have extended the range upwards, and I must say I liked that a lot
@moshbear Go fretless :)
upwards is clearer, downwards is richer
07:44
@moshbear satriani does that all the time
too much work to extend the fingerboard
21 frets on a classic Stratocaster are just perfect.
once you go CGDAEg, you don't go back
@DomagojPandža Is that bass? You play the bass too then
i love it for high position thirds
07:46
Nope, it's Leo Fender's electric guitar heritage.
@moshbear I see what you mean there. So you actually do a scordatura on electric bass. Lol :>]
Unless I missed a junction we were talking about electric bass guitars
Some serious wood
I've been looking to buy something like this:
Or this
Can't really make my mind up yet, since it is a lot of money.
Designs are awesome, although the second one looks clumsy.
@DomagojPandža That guy got 3 more likes right now, I guess :)
@DomagojPandža You do realize these are violins, no? The first looks arguably clumsier. I could see myself auto-decapitating just wielding the thing
07:52
@sehe Not sure if serious or trolling... *fry.jpg*
I suppose the first (the Wood, no joke) is more to be held in American 'fiddler' style
@Neil Sorry?
Violins have 4 strings, not 6. At least, no violins I'm familiar with
mark wood makes fretted violins
@sehe i do scordatura for both bass and guitar
also, why not call it an alto violin, since the range is going to be a six-string viola, unless you want to scord AbEbBbFCG, which should be fun and of itself
Well, the strings have an arbitrary count, really... It just expands the range. What surprised me is the frets on the first one.
I'm not positive, but I think a 6-stringed violin is like having a four-sided triangle
07:55
@neil you get more tonal possibilities
i want to see an 8-string violin tuned in thirds
I like the minimalist electric violin design, but I am somehow on the border of traditional and classical.
I don't think you actually *could* play a 6-string violin, at least in the traditional manner
This is coming from someone who used to play the violin for 4 years
@DomagojPandža traditional == classical
With an input of technology where applicable.
why not have a viola with the range of a violin?
in fact, it'd be easier to do jazz quadruple stops :p
07:58
Sorry, I failed to qualify the sense of traditional here, it's the 1960-1990 timeframe (I particularly refer to electric guitars).
ah, yes, ye olde gibsons e fenders
@Neil Welcome to the new world. You can make things that didn't exist. Although I admit I only have experience with acoustic 4string violin/viola. To date
@moshbear Wouldn't that be a violin then?
depends on the scale length

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