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Ell
Ell
11:00
but if they had these, it would be so much more?
quantum computers can do 2^n computations per cycle where n is the number of qbits can't they?
Why? If the government wanted to arrest someone, they could claim cameras caught them stealing something and planet evidence
@Ell I believe that depends on the computation.
Only thing this would do is allow them to stop criminals quickly and efficiently
afaik QCs are like SSE or GPUs- they can only perform up to 2^n of the same operation at once
Ell
Ell
@Neil fair enough, but they need evidence to back the claim
11:02
@Ell The cameras, remember?
@ScarletAmaranth bit late. was getting the kids. will be walking around for a bit
Ell
Ell
@Neil but if they don't have the evidence, they can't use it, but if a camera can auto-detect that kind of behaiviour and record it
@sehe Oh well, try summoning me when / if you get some free time. (The secret summoning formula is @ScarletAmaranth).
@Ell Then it means they could get more evidence to arrest criminals! Gasp!
Governments don't gain any more power than they already could with normal security cameras
@ScarletAmaranth dark incantations right there
Ell
Ell
11:04
@Neil well they might go crazy with power or something I don't know! :3
@sehe The voodoo of 21st century.
@Ell You're right to be suspicious of government. Though in this case, I don't think it could give them more power
@ManofOneWay you there?
I've honestly stopped caring about "evil governments" long time ago, odds are, their evil secret plans are never going to influence me in any way, shape or form, hopefully .
Ell
Ell
I have a design issue! I'm not sure if my "game"'s Camera, SceneManager, InputManager, WindowManager etc. should be public or not. I'm using ogre so pretty much anything can be accessed with a singleton but I don't like that.
11:06
@thecoshman uh oh. madder? Not sadder, I suppose, because that can hardly be. Poor kids growing up in dysfunctional homes like that. Poor grownups too that don't have the patience to head everyday frustrations
@Ell Can you get away with keeping them private? then do
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG but using a singleton for everything? :O Its annoying to having to keep typeing getSingleton().getSceneManager()->getSceneNode("NamedNode")->
Better to think of the government like a business
@Ell that's what Ogre does, basically. It's going to be tough to change that, I'm afraid
Businesses offer a service for payment (taxes), and like businesses, you need to make sure they're not scamming you
11:08
@ScarletAmaranth Optimist. History tells us that you should very much expect government erring to influence your individual. I'm with you that I don't sweat it, but I'm not naive and betting the odds. I'm voting. And I'd protest if that weren't enough
of course, an obvious follow-up question then would be "why would you use Ogre?"
@Ell I know, it's fucking stupid.
Ell
Ell
@jalf I already started :P before knowing about anything else
And tbh, nothing is ever perfect because everyone likes different things so I suppose you gotta live with the defects
but in this case, I have a choice, sort of.
@ScarletAmaranth On the slightly brighter side of things, in the internet era, things are harder to force. But just look how easy it would be for a government to control the internet.
Ell
Ell
@sehe how easy it is (tpb)
11:09
There is no government involved. Directly
@sehe China has done an excellent job of it
Great Firewall of China
It is easy for the important 80% of things. Of course, dissidents can find ways around it. But that is the exception that reinforces the rule, mainly
They'll never admit it, but that's how they get their intelligence on who is plotting against the government
sbi
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth That's a damn naive POV. Tell that to the hundreds or thousands who got harassed, tortured, or killed for blogging something their government didn't like.
@sehe Actually, it wouldn't be that easy. When it came down to "governments possibly messing with the DNS", an alternative begun to emerge. Ofcourse they could try legally forcing ISP to do weird stuff, in which case things would get uglier really quickly.
11:10
lunchtime, later
Ell
Ell
hmm. this message is too long.
Basically at the moment, the Client class contains camera, scene manager, camera etc. etc., and each game state takes a pointer to Client so the states can access the clients stuff via mClient->mStuff. But that means making mStuff public - I thought about making them friends, but have no idea if that is the right choice. Then again, I thought if i need access to the camera etc. then maybe having it public is the right thing?
Alternatively, I could pass pointers to each individual thing - camera, scene manager etc. Anyone think one of these is the best option?
Nevermind - I'm going to open a question on GameDev.stack exchange
when in doubt, pass objects/pointers/references around
@sbi I come from a country that was ruled by the Comunists for quite some time yet with the current state of affairs, I don't think you will get "tortured or killed" for expressing your opinions on the internet. (You definitely could before the year 1989 here, though.)
sbi
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth Are you trolling?
oh, and protip: SO > GD.SE for programming advice
11:14
@ScarletAmaranth A government can simply order the internet backbone nuked. It will work in their favour if the gvt. if the goal is totalitarianism. Basically, laws of economy don't apply anymore: people have no voice, have no choice, and they'd just be happy to be alive.
Helloooo.
@sbi I'm not trolling, I honestly don't think things like that are happening in "civilized" countries.
@ScarletAmaranth Good. Nice. Naive. Now imagine voicing your opinion without internet.
"gamedev programming" is just another name for "newbies who want to make a game, but can't, and will endlessly parrot bad practices at each others "
Ell
Ell
@jalf what about programming.se? I never know where to go. as I see it, programming.se is for general advice, so.se for specific cases, and gamedev for gamedev (including art, liscencing et.c)
11:15
@ScarletAmaranth What is a civilized country? What does it take for a country to remain civilized?
Programmers is blackboard theoretical blah blah blah.
Ell
Ell
@jalf so its a good job I'm asking this question instead of endlessly parroting bad practice then ;)
@Ell That one was originally described as a "watercooler chitchat" site, or something like that. It's where you go to talk about pointless things when you should be doing soemthing else. :)
@Ell Yep :)
@sehe It's not that easy to define but basically any country in which people have access to "almost unregulated" internet. (PLease don't ask me to define almost unregulated internet :P)
Game Development might be good place to ask for general advice about gamedev and industry, not coding things per se.
sbi
sbi
11:16
@ScarletAmaranth Oh yeah? And what about Bradley Manning?
afk
Also notice how cleverly I use [X.se] to link to them with no effort.
sbi
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth I didn't know the discussion was limited to those.
@CatPlusPlus You are such a clever cat.
hi all
@ScarletAmaranth So. That brings it down to a circle reasoning. Internet is powerful for keeping gvts in check. You state free speech/internet (among other things) is not going to be easily suppressed in civilized countries. And - the definition of a civilized country is coined as "basically a country in which people have access to "almost unregulated" internet."
11:18
@sbi Yeah I wasn't entirely clear on that, sorry.
@sehe It was more of an example than a definition :)
@sehe which country are ou talking about
Well. It was circle reasoning.
@sehe IT's not possible for me to define "civilized country" other than with rather shabby: "Oooh well, you know, North Korea is definitely not the case." :)
@hellzone None in particular. Pick one. Estonia. Sweden. Zimbabwe.
I'm awesome.
11:20
@RadekSlupik :)
I'm dividing attention. Tosti's being made, kid talking, chat happening
real afk now :)
@RadekSlupik go kill yourself
:D
Tostis? Me gusta.
@hellzone Nope.
there so many editors here
Taste-fucking-ty.
what is that
11:24
Sandwich with ham and molten cheese.
@RadekSlupik The amount of meat in there is too damn low.
Also called a croque-monsieur.
@ScarletAmaranth Care. It's fucking tasty.
Okay, I admit there should be some bacon in it.
Ell
Ell
ooooh toastie
Mc donalds or Burger?
@RadekSlupik Kk, you've done it. I'm off to bake me some bacon.
@jalf Yes I'm here
In case you didn't notice, .
New guys?
@ManofOneWay who?
11:28
11
Q: Make it possible to revoke write access to public chat rooms

Cat Plus PlusThere is already a two-tier ACL system in place: it allows us to choose default access mode (Public for "default read and write" and Gallery for "default read, no write"), and then assign access levels to users. For the purpose of this post, let's label them: Level 0: explicit read access Level...

@DomagojPandža Have you noticed any performance changes when you started using your own math library ? :P
@DomagojPandža what are ou talking about
At least I got some meta rep.
@CatPlusPlus so?
> Per se, that's of course not grounds to deny your request; the logic could be redesigned. However, this logic – and its consequences regarding your request – have been deliberately chosen this way.
Aka I'm too lazy to redesign it.
11:31
It's a really simple system, redesigning is not an issue.
@ManofOneWay you've done some Java stuff before, right?
@ScarletAmaranth On SSE-supporting processors (mostly everything nowadays), there was little to no performance gain since XNAMath has been battletested, that's a standard usage scenario. I tend to be a little bit more math-detail to implementation obsessed, so I managed to do some clever things around finding matrix inverses, representing planes, finding intersections etc. Most of the performance benefits, in my case, are gained when running on AVX-enabled hardware like the iX family (Sandy Bridge).
But the CPU side has never been a bottleneck since I do intensive crap on the GPU (realtime GI solvers) which clog up performance if one is not careful.
Wiki article on AVX is hilarious.
@DomagojPandža Thank you.
Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX) is an extension to the x86 instruction set architecture (...) AVX provides new features, new instructions and a new coding scheme.
NO SHIT SHERLOCK.
Also, why didn't I hear about this before.
I suck.
11:34
what, AVX?
Yes.
> Advanced Vector Extensions 2 (AVX2), also known as Haswell New Instructions
It's a recent development, don't worry about it. It's going to be quite a while until it's feasible to support across the board.
Almost like Haskell.
Ell
Ell
haha
This way you have to fallback every once in a while.
11:36
@jalf Sure a bit, why? =)
In few years they'll get to 1024-bit instructions.
@ManofOneWay well, you asked if we were still hiring. Turns out we needa Java/C++ guy :)
Ell
Ell
is using a map<coordinate, something> over a vector<vector<something>> terribly bad?
of course, there's also the plain C++ position, if anyone's interested: linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=3194834
@Ell Where coordinate is what?
They're both bad.
11:38
The suck is big in both.
Especially if you want a dense map and are iterating over entire thing sequentially.
you mean you'd do mymap[coordinate(x, y)] instead of myvector[x][y]?
Ell
Ell
as in for a 2d map
yeah
For a 2d map, use a 2d array. Not a vector of vectors, and not a map
Use Eigen's Array, or Boost.MultiArray or other specialised multi-dimensional container.
Ell
Ell
11:38
damnit I keep forgetting I've asked this before
For a 2d grid I use a single vector.
Ell
Ell
and got the same answer like 6 times. thnak you for reminding me :)
@StackedCrooked You can, but with fancy libs you get a fancy API!
With Eigen it's really easy to fetch and pass around pieces of the original array, for example.
Depends on what you're doing, obviously.
Also, I've paid for EVE. I'm doomed.
One day I'll probably gonna need that. Until then I'll stick with my own crap.
Ell
Ell
its not like I need major performance anything, its just a tilemap
11:41
EVE is amazing.
@CatPlusPlus cool, it's good fun to play around in for a few months. :)
I made my own corp to evade taxes.
Ell
Ell
i wonder if boost::multi_array supports emplace_back
> Boost.MultiArray provides the facilities for creating a sub-view of an already existing array component. It allows you to create a sub-view that retains the same number of dimensions as the original array or one that has less dimensions than the original as well.
It doesn't have push_back-type API.
11:43
^ Now that's kind of cool. (Above comment is not related to @Ell's question btw.)
At least AFAIR. It wouldn't make much sense.
Ell
Ell
anyone have a link I can give to someone who thinks that friendship is a violation of encapsulation?
With multi-dimensional arrays, resizing only on demand is more desirable.
@Ell Well, it is, somewhat.
@Ell Stroustrup's homepage has a defense.
Practicality over OOP, though. And stuff.
Ell
Ell
11:45
@CatPlusPlus why? only friends is more private than public?
sbi
sbi
> If you torture data for long enough, it will confess to anything. — Ronald Harry Coase
Well, I guess it depends on how you define "encapsulation".
Encapsulation. To put in a capsule.
sbi
sbi
@Ell Well, it is a violation of encapsulation.
11:46
With "not leaking out internals to other components", friendship does violate it.
Class is old enough. It deserves some privacy. Dammit!
I am so naming my next cat "Cat Plus Plus".
Also, rockets are cool and devastating, even if low DPS.
Perhaps he'll sit on my desk and comment code.
on a similar note: getters and setters are so Java. public is the new get/set.
Ell
Ell
Surely then you can say that "public" is a violation of encapsulation
11:49
If you public internals, yes.
it's not, cause you could get/set the sucker anyway. Syntactic simplicity over book-wisdom.
Ell
Ell
hmm
And getters/setters usually do leak internals.
unless there's something the setter or getter does (other than get or set), in which case it's not a simple getter or setter anymore, and you should give it a better name.
It's a "you know it when you see it" thing, hard to make general rules about it.
I can't warp 60AU in this stupid crappy ship without capacitor running out in the middle, and it makes me angry.
11:51
Friendship is a required feature though. How else could you specify that a variable is private for everyone except for X.
Ell
Ell
I like getters
if some things are getters and some things just public members, it's more consistent just to make all public members getters
Simple getters and setters are the worst examples of OOP bloat. Also, object is a very general notion. When you go down the abstraction lane, at some point it becomes obvious what constitutes the object (or the class representing the object), what should be part of the internal implementation and what should be a part of the interface.
I go the easy way and just don't pretend to care about OOP.
@CatPlusPlus Precisely, even if a violation occurs, sometimes OO purism is pure retardation. Rules are here to guide, not to control.
And exceptions simply verify the rules.
I hate using the word exception in C++ chat when it doesn't refer to the exceptions.
11:54
@DomagojPandža C++ exceptions verify rules? Cool, they can really do anything.
Ahahahah, I knew it :Đ
Practicality beats purity, and stuff.
I think this must be @CatPlusPlus's viewpoint
@DomagojPandža The exception proves the rule. The fact that an exception exists implies that there must have been a rule to begin with. :p
@StackedCrooked Precisely. :Đ
11:55
@StackedCrooked That's a giant pile of BS.
RULES EVERYWHERE
Ell
Ell
purity is pretty chill, though
What if there are more exceptions than rules?
@DeadMG That's what the expression means.
RULE ALL THE THINGS
11:55
Rules prove the exceptions?
@StackedCrooked It's a giant pile of fallacy.
> You have been quoted an office rental fee of 27 777 523 ISK. The rental period is for 30 days.
What if an exception is really just a C++ exception and not a real exception?
:(
I'm so poor.
@CatPlusPlus you're talking about a spoken language now, surely.
11:56
Yes, English.
@CatPlusPlus 30mil ISK isn't much.
@CatPlusPlus 18.3 billion ISK right here. :Đ
It is when your character is 12 hours old.
And by some, I'm poor too. :(
Hi everyone!
11:56
WTF is ISK???
InterStellar Kredits
Interstellar Kredits.
It's online spaceship money.
ah some game thing
11:57
@StackedCrooked No, it doesn't.
And it actually has exchange rate with real currency.
how much is it worth then
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG it implies it though
@CatPlusPlus Almost correct, it's a one way road. :Đ
@Ell No, it doesn't.
11:57
It's worth ~$17-19
If you consider USD a real currency.
@StackedCrooked now I finally understand what that phrase is meant to mean
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG yes, it does.
per ~400M ISK when I last checked.
the sign makes absolutely no mention whatsoever of any other days, and has no implication about them whatsoever
11:58
@DeadMG From a pure logic point of view it doesn't.
~450 is average now.
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG If I said, you aren't allowed pancakes on fridays, you would assume you are on other days, wouldn't you?
I used to do margin trading with PLEXes
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG or else why would that even be stated?
11:58
Such a thrill. :Đ
how should I know what goes on in your head?
I might try market playing out.
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG why would it be stated if not to imply a rule
probably some insanity I can't even begin to speculate about
Does anyone use Clang for C++ development on a regular basis? Do you know how standard-compliant it is these days?
11:59
@DeadMG true, "parking prohibited on Sundays" does not mean that it must be on the other days, but it is more sensible to assume that if any other days where prohibited, they would also be invluded
that has nothing to do with exceptions or rules

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