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5:00 PM
@MooingDuck Feel free. You're wrong, but that's fine. :-)
 
once the file decoding is done since its written on the top of node.js it will go down to very very low usage
 
Well your CPU is there to be used, so use it. Note that use != waste
 
@MooingDuck What's the unused CPU time for?
 
Als
@Cicada Strongly agree just its utilization should be max at maximum users for whom support is required and not otherwise.
 
@MooingDuck Charity
 
5:02 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I understand the sentiment that you guys are all saying, but I'd rather have a responsive server than a theoretically efficient one.
 
@Als Indeed, CPU should be at the minimum maximum (if you get what I mean)
 
It's not about CPU usage, but getting tasks complete as fast as possible for users.
 
i am going to write a better benchmark
 
Als
@Cicada Agreed, got your point
 
@MooingDuck How is that unrelated
 
5:03 PM
Right. You can't do it as fast as possible if you waste CPU time.
 
(void**)&factory ... wtf is this shit directX, c++ my ass
 
which should tell for how much files it decoded in how much ms
 
@MooingDuck Which is exactly why you want it running at 100% when work is ready to be done. Running slower simply delays response, without providing any benefit.
 
Als
@ScarletAmaranth C++ is nobody's ass, everyone is its bitch though
 
hey robot
do you think I should fold the binary and hash {set | map} functions?
 
Als
5:04 PM
@DeadMG Pup, You might want to summon the bot with a @RMartinhoFernandes
 
@Als Well, they claim it's "C++" and you get C style casts with void** ...
 
I could have like, Set(T, lookup = { hash = ..., }, alloc = ...) and Set(T, lookup = { comparator = ... }, alloc = ... );
 
@ScarletAmaranth DirectX was done to be fast, not pretty.
 
would sure ease the specification a tad
 
@Cicada I'm saying the goal should not be to maximize CPU usage, but to minimize response times. His first experiment implies that the task might have been completed faster overall if each of those threads ran one at a time instead of trying to run simultaneously.
 
5:05 PM
@DeadMG I don't really see a problem with that.
 
@Cicada Templates or C++ casts are not really "slower"
 
well
 
@ScarletAmaranth Braintypo, see my edit
 
the only thing I see is that it wouldn't be so trivial for users to add their own
 
Als
@ScarletAmaranth c-style casts are very much a part of C++, why you think aren't?
 
5:05 PM
You can use funny fonts and colors to make it prettier.
 
I mean, it'd be hard to go Set(T, lookup = { some custom set mechanism }, alloc = ...).
 
@Als not to void** they aren't
 
but as long as I give the generalized Set requirements, I guess it doesn't actually matter
 
@MooingDuck This is almost what I'm saying. What I'm saying is "use as much CPU as you need to complete the fastest you can, but not more"
 
@Als Well, more often than not, you don't see "(C-cast)" in modern C++ not to mention void**.
 
Als
5:06 PM
@MooingDuck Well i could always say, why would you need void * in c++ anyways
 
@DeadMG Yeah, that "set mechanism" thing is definitely not easy to define.
 
@Als Because they're horrifically bad.
 
@ScarletAmaranth DirectX is designed to be fast, not cute and modern-C++-y
 
Fast code doesn't require void** stuff. Modern C++ can be fast, see Facebook.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Plus, you'd have to explicitly specify the hasher and comparator every time
 
5:07 PM
Forgetting your type information is not a good idea.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Damn right!
 
Als
@DeadMG Not bad if one knows exactly how they work, they have an well defined order.
 
@StackedCrooked I chuckled slightly
 
@Cicada Modern C++ is fast.
@Cicada Templates are fast, C++ style casts are fast.
 
I have a bug report that when our system says a certain sentence in Finnish, we're missing a word. However, the sentance they gave doesn't exist. So one of our 540 sentences is wrong, but I don't know which :/
 
5:08 PM
@Als No, they're just horrifically bad. Having technically well-defined behaviour doesn't make anything "good".
 
@ScarletAmaranth I'm positively certain there is a very valid reason DirectX designers used void** instead of "Modern C++"
It may be not performance
 
Als
@DeadMG "horrifically bad" in what sense? usually, one would always use C++ casts and not c-style casts in C++ but they are not horrifically a disaster really if one knows how they work.
 
@Cicada It's probably because C-style programming was more conventional at the time and because the VS compiler didn't support many modern C++ features.
 
@Cicada Probably because they didn't know about boost::variant
 
@Als You think void* is not horrifically bad ?
 
Als
5:10 PM
3 mins ago, by Als
@MooingDuck Well i could always say, why would you need void * in c++ anyways
 
@Als If you know how they work, you can just use the appropriate cast they will devolve to, no?
That's what I do.
 
The void*-style of programming can make your program slower due to aliasing problems.
I learned that from the GoingNative talks.
 
@StackedCrooked Not to mention void** :-)
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes. true thats ease of usage, but why "horrifically bad"
 
@Als Horrifically bad because if you do something stupid by accident or due to maintenance changes, your compiler cannot help you.
 
5:11 PM
Random thought: maybe DirectX is actually C?
 
@Cicada It's not ;)
 
@Als Because that's what the puppy always says. He doesn't use many degrees of bad.
 
also they are difficult to find in a codebase
 
@ScarletAmaranth It goes more downhill for each added star :D
 
@StackedCrooked Hahahah, right ^^
 
5:11 PM
I remember reading somewhere that COM base types are actually C with hand-crafted v-tables or something
Maybe old versions of COM
 
C/C++ COMish, yes
that doesn't qualify you for void**, in fact, nothing does :)
 
Als
@DeadMG okay, that's fair enough reasons. Difficult to find indeed and more chances of getting your compiler cry out aloud(though not so helpful always for eg: even a static_cast can go horifically wrong and no compiler will ever bother crying out aloud) at the end of it no casts are really safe, except perhaps dynamic_cast to some extent.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I'm sure there is (or at least was at that time) a valid reason for void**
Knowing how MS operates
 
@Cicada probably lack of template support and a lot of concepts (boost::variant) hadn't been invented yet.
 
@Cicada "There was" sounds better, although DX11 is what, 2 years old ? Not even that ? Sooo, I'm not quite sure.
 
5:13 PM
@Cicada I recently saw a video where MS developers said that many of the complex bug involving reference counting COM objects are non-existing when using modern C++ (RAII) consistently.
 
@MooingDuck That's possible
 
actually
I'm going to go out of my way and say that void*, and void**, are quite necessary
 
@Als reinterpret_cast from T to T is safe!
 
@StackedCrooked I believe it
 
@ScarletAmaranth Considering MS hugs retrocompat a lot?
 
5:14 PM
binary interfaces are the fuglies, but they are a necessary fact of life
 
@StackedCrooked Sounds very probable
 
@DeadMG Woah, woah, if you don't want me to stop talking with you, please add context.
 
@Cicada Yeah I wouldn't consider the creators of windows vista any reliable ^^
 
I wonder if one could make an argument that shared_ptr ought not exist, and that it should be owned by some parent/global object.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Let me re-phrase that. How, exactly, would you implement QueryInterface without void*?
 
Als
5:15 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes but again, that nullify's the argument of having to know how c-style casts work being an overhead. You need to know how c++ casts work as well, they are not just plainly safe, not make or break stuff
 
@DeadMG Oh, I'm more worried about the two-starred one.
 
well, that's them not having a binary exception ABI
 
@MooingDuck I don't think so, even if it was doable, it wouldn't logically "separate" things well, I reckon.
 
What hash algorithm would you suggest to identify files (10-40GB each) and file blocks (8 MB each) over a LAN? I'm considering sha1 and sha256
 
whether or not that's good is another question
 
5:16 PM
@Als I was making a joke. I was trying to say that not casting at all was safe.
 
the point is, when you cross binary boundaries, you often have to lose a little type safety in the implementation of things
 
Wow you guys arent going to believe this

Decodes 1 file in 7812ms
Decodes 2 files in 6832ms
what !
the heck!
 
it's not scary, and it's not horrifically problematic, as long as it stays relegated to that purpose
@Abhishek Fifty bucks says "Shitty benchmark code".
 
@Abhishek Reminds of the ads "the more you buy, the less you pay"
 
its not shitty :-x
 
5:18 PM
@Abhishek Were you timing it with a stopwatch ?
 
nope
javascript
 
Oh, there you go, shitty by definition ^^
 
wanna see the benchmark code ?
@ScarletAmaranth lol
 
@Abhishek The 2 files were smaller than the single one? :D
 
@DeadMG Ok, you still having robot interaction privileges.
 
5:18 PM
nope
the first one was the same
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes hmm okies...I guess not a jolly day for moi.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes kek
 
@Abhishek cold vs hot would be my guess
 
in fact, I'm going to define a specific Standard library place which shall hold all that gunk which is only good for interoperation
 
@MooingDuck I second that
 
5:19 PM
@Abhishek did you run both tests multiple times and throw out the first of each type?
 
btw benchmark code
 
We should make Mystical write a "how to benchmark code" thing
 
@Abhishek Did you use any psychotropic or in any way psyche influencing drugs and / or shroomz ?
 
@Als : "I will not post answers again
I feel disappointed with the recent happenings and I don't feel it is worth my time and effort any more."

What's wrong?
 
5:20 PM
@ScarletAmaranth i think thats more or less because of mpg123 the library which i am binding to JS
 
@DeadMG Standard.Gunk.VoidStarStar?
2
@MooingDuck "Mysticial"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Standard.Interop.VoidPtr, most likely, and then you can call the regular Ptr() function on that.
 
Als
@PrasoonSaurav hmm...I was called somethings which I don't think I deserved. If you want to know you could read the chat transcripts from yesterday.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Wait, he's not "Mysticial"?
 
5:22 PM
file 1 -> 6115ms
file 2 -> 7317ms
file 1,2 -> 6584ms
 
@Abhishek how many times did you run the file1 test? (Hint: if it's less than 2, your numbers are meaningless)
 
10
 
@Abhishek and you discarded the first one?
 
all tests 10x
yes.
[ i am quite used to of benchmarking stuff with js ]
 
@Abhishek did you calculate the variance? It might be that your task is highly parallell.
 
5:25 PM
@Abhishek Have you tried logarithms?
 
@Cicada Logarithmic semantics!
 
@MooingDuck Oh stop it you!
 
Hmm i amma add another file
just to test it
 
Hmm. My idea of using packaged_tasks and futures with Boost.Asio doesn't quite work for what I want.
futures are not reusable.
 
5:29 PM
Damn. It was a cool idea though.
 
@Abhishek and calculate the deviation
 
These are awesome.
 
@MooingDuck i got another issue now , with three diff. files it throws segmentation fault ,i better address that first.
 
@SamDeHaan Lacks color :(
 
man
I keep forgetting that linebreaks in HTML source are not respected in the output
need to fix the formatting on quite a few of my pages
and introduce a number of cross-links
 
5:33 PM
@Cicada Well, they are books. Why would they have color?
 
HTML hyperlinks are relative, right?
 
@SamDeHaan Aren't they posters?
 
@Cicada Well, yes. Posters of books. Complete text of a book, negative space used to make picture.
 
@SamDeHaan This is insane
 
@DeadMG Yes.
@DeadMG Y U use HTML directly?
 
5:35 PM
@SamDeHaan Strikes me as the worst of both worlds. You end up with a boring poster and a book in a form you'll never read.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What else? I tried using Dreamweaver but it just sucked even more
 
I like the idea, though
 
@PaulR When you said "saturate", I immediately had goosebumps on my neck, because MMX has saturated integer arithmetic! As it turns out though, only for 8 bit and 16 bit integers :( — FredOverflow 45 secs ago
 
@JerryCoffin I don't really consider the poster boring, but I suppose you're allowed that opinion. Also, would totally read it.
 
@DeadMG I use Markdown and then get something to generate the HTML for me.
 
5:37 PM
@Cicada They haven't made one of a book I want to buy yet. Not sure what I'm waiting for, but I want to get one at some point.
 
Or just use Google docs.
 
sbi
I need to mirror a photo. It seems I don't have any program to do that on my machine. Is there an online service to do that?
Forget it. Paint can do that.
 
@MooingDuck found out the unexpected behaviour
 
I was going to suggest "put your PC in front of your mirror, then take your camera and shoot"
 
5:39 PM
1. All my I-O is asynchrnous.
 
But then I realized the quality wouldn't be so good
 
@Cicada You forgot the wooden table.
 
2. libmpg123 is exceptionally faster at higher bitrates
 
@Abhishek That must hurt
 
lol @ 27:33 "no lobster with my cereals"
 
5:40 PM
@Cicada why ?
is that supposed to hurt ?
thats how v8 / node.js is supposed to work non-blockingly
 
@sbi If you're willing to spend a little time learning a scripting language that has ImageMagick bindings then you can get really far. Also.
 
oh dear
I specified that the default hasher is the Standard hash algorithm
then I didn't specify that the Hash algorithm has to exist
/whoops
 
Smooth.
 
@DeadMG You should write that in your memoires.
:p
 
lol
"Gather round, young ones. There's an epic story, of love, intrigue, and betrayal, when I forgot to define a function I referred to somewhere else."
8
you know
 
5:47 PM
But, yeah, that's one hell of a specification: it specifies stuff that doesn't even exist!
 
I finally found a place where I could have used template specializations
 
The one time that I tried to use something and it turned out that the thing I was trying to use didn't exist at all!
 
Ain't that a bitch.
 
Sounds like a story by that Simpsons grampa character.
 
nah
I can make it exist through the sheer force of dictating that it exist
so it's not that bad :P
 
5:53 PM
do we have a Finnish speaker here?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes is you ere blud
 
Shoot, before I go for the nighttime foodsies.
 
@EtiennedeMartel C++11 spec refers to a class's "fields" in several locations
 
it's OK, I solved my own problem
 
I'm awesome.
 
5:53 PM
toddle off now
 
This is not a homework. The compiler I am using as a reverse compiler has a restriction of using pointers because of an issue in building SSA — LCYSoft 21 mins ago
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yesssss.
 
Can you make sense of this?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes. SSA form sucks donkey cock for C++, and you have to deal with things through pointers for many more complex mutations.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Nope.
 
5:56 PM
look at the LLVM page on it
 
@DeadMG Oh, I know what SSA is. But I can't fathom why that would matter in that question.
 
hey guys In C: do you know if i can include 2 libraries (separated files), both have same function names but different implementation. can i work with it?
 
@nEAnnam Maybe. If you're willing to use something like a DLL/.so, you can build one that statically links to one library, but externally provides different names for the functions. Then you build with the other library and your .so/DLL.
 
hmm
 
6:03 PM
@MooingDuck Data members are now known as fields?
 
I may be forced to change the extension method lookup rules
 
@FredOverflow spec doesn't say what "fields" are anywhere
 
@MooingDuck lol
 
@MooingDuck Duh. They're things.
 
Somebody made 49 tutorial videos about Assembly and C++? Wow. I hope they don't suck.
 
6:08 PM
 
Ell
hi guys
 
@FredOverflow I've been subscribed to that guy for quite a while, those are decent ASM videos as far as I can tell. (I'm definitely not an ASM guru of any sort though.)
 
@FredOverflow ewwww, no RAII
 
@DeadMG Well, what do you expect from an "Assembly and C++" tutorial?
 
@FredOverflow I expect that if you include the "C++" part, and you talk about dynamic memory, then you talk about RAII.
 
6:14 PM
@DeadMG I wouldn't be surprised if the creator of that video had never heard of RAII.
 
@FredOverflow Which is probably why he should stop talking about C++ as if he knows anything about it.
 
@DeadMG You're never forced. You're allowed to weigh the options, though
 
@sehe Sure, the other options just may be completely untenable
 
"Untenable", haven't heard that for quite a while now.
 
Hi :)
 
6:24 PM
@sehe So, by Wednesday morning, what did you mean exactly ? (My expected wakeup time is 11am - 12am.) ;)
 
hmm, I know how to make standard iterators, but I like the idea of boosts separation of in/out vs traversal. But I can't find details on how to make an iterator that uses those traversal types. Do I just make the boost category my iterator_category typedef?
 
Well, Oatmeal's fund raiser has really slowed down: 115k now.
 
@ScarletAmaranth 10-11am CET
Dooooog slow!
I mean, there are slower days in my business
 
@sehe If by any happenstance do I see you here tommoz "that early", I shall be expecting your picking the gauntlet up :)
I have a strange affection for the word "gauntlet" for some inexplicable reason.
 
@MooingDuck You can't without an appropriate set of algorithms.
 
6:34 PM
@DeadMG standard iterators it is then
 
@ScarletAmaranth No guarantees. I may be vacuuming, getting groceries, hacking on a programming or just be temporarily braindamaged. But yeah, do wake up :)
 
Is it possible to have a custom constructor to an enum?
 
What would that do?
How about an (implicit) conversion _to the enum type_ from the (assumed) source type
 
Well in Java for example, you could have several members in the enum, for example:
http://ideone.com/ubSrH
 
That would not be an enum in C++. That would need to be a struct, and if you really needed identites with that, look at something like boost FlyWeight with proper factory policies
 
6:42 PM
@ManofOneWay Java enums are probably the only feature I like in the language.
 
@sbi Paint will also happily reduce the quality of your image by a tonne while increasing the filesize :)
 
Operating systems with GUIs that don't come with software to mirror pictures suck.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes My java experience predates those critters, apparently. I did do all kinds of icky generics with wildcards, but never java enums. In fact, I still remermber writing base classes with lots of static final constants
@RMartinhoFernandes Ia?
 
6:45 PM
@ManofOneWay Java enums are basically just classes with built-in singletons values.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Enum-based Singletons!
Java also has static import, which means it effectively has "free functions".
 
@sehe It's from The Shadow over Innsmouth. Usually spoken in the phrases "Ia Dagon! Ia Cthulhu!"
 
@StackedCrooked Yay. One day, when it grows up, it might be as cool as C#. But, then it will still be stuck on a crippling legacy VM
@RMartinhoFernandes Obviously
 
That's an interesting place to find inspiration
 
6:49 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yum yum.
 
Ell
haha
lets be honest though, people have found inspiration in stranger places
 
Mmm. Don't tell :)
 
Ell
;)
yay just finished a command line to-do manager! it's uber simple but quite useful
 
So, does she just like 'cooking her family+dog' or does she find inspiration 'in her dog', among others
@Ell Cheers
 
@sehe I think it's the act of cooking everyone that gave her the inspiration.
 
Ell
6:52 PM
"in her dog"... what are you insinuating...
 
@EtiennedeMartel Usually, an enum has multiple possible values. Then an enum is not a Singleton. Unless each value overrides at least one method.
 
Or she encourages the dog, saying "Eat Ray, Love!"
 
I think the comma after cooking was photoshopped away :)
 
@FredOverflow Indeed. It's a... multigleton?
 
6:53 PM
@SamDeHaan Next up: Rachel Ray tells us about all the wonderful cooking tips she learned from Jeffrey Dahmer!
 
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes how so fast? :o
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's a class with as many instances as you need ;)
 
@Ell Being fast is my job.
 
@Ell He did it in pure assembly.
 
Ell
haha
 
6:54 PM
@FredOverflow Actually, with as many instances as the guy who wrote it thinks you need.
 
@EtiennedeMartel right
 
@Ell That's not fast. This is:
 
Ell
I've just realised this was the first actual programme I have ever written :L
 
 
Ell
haha
needs a smoke trail and some blur :P
 
6:56 PM
Needs a lens flare.
And some gradients.
 
I'm too lazy. Do it yourselves :)
 
Trust me people, I'm an ex-Web programmer, I know this shit.
 
@DeadMG Ew, he claims that free(pointer_obtained_by_new); is valid :(
 
How do you usually prevent the default constructor to be used? Setting an assert or something?
 
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
 
6:57 PM
@ManofOneWay make it private or delete it?
 
@FredOverflow Give him a break, those are meant to be ASM tutorials :)
 
how do you delete a constructor?
 
@FredOverflow What. The. Fuckity. Fuck.
 
class T
{
    T() = delete;   // yay C++11
};
 
@ManofOneWay constructor_signature = delete;
 
6:58 PM
The delete key ( or ), known less ambiguously as forward delete, performs a function when struck on a computer keyboard during text or command editing, which is to discard the character ahead of the cursor's position, moving all following characters one position "back" towards the freed letterspace. The key appears on IBM-compatible PC keyboards labeled as Delete, or Del. On Mac keyboards, the key which performs the forward delete function is labeled del, or with a special right arrow glyph enclosing an "x" with the word del or delete above or to the left of it, as the full word delete by...
 

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