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9:00 AM
@ScarletAmaranth In regards to if vs exceptions I agree. I thought we were arguing over the intial mutliple-choice question.
 
Error codes are bug-prone, overhead doesn't matter.
 
I agree, and I agree in using exceptions. What I am arguing is that the multiple choice question (above) with its answers isn't a good question
 
Dunno, I just saw "if vs exception".
 
An exception:
A) Causes and unforseen detour in the expected flow of execution
b,c I don't remember what they were
D) Can cause a performance impact
idk I think Scarlet and I were arguing different points without realising it
 
int A[N];
int *p;

why the fuck does A-p work but A+p not ?
(in C)
 
9:10 AM
you can't add raw pointers
when you subtract them, if that is well-defined then you get the number of array elements between their pointee positions
subtraction is well-defined for pointers that point into the same array, or to a fictitious element right after the end of the array
 
whops
didnt see chat
0
Q: C behavior with pointer addition

ScarletAmaranthGiven: int A[N]; int *p; why does a-p work yet a+p does not with error: "invalid operands to binary +".

 
in the expression A-p the array expression A is converted to a pointer to the first element of A
 
Go answer this here :)
mhm
 
that's called a decay of the array expression
 
Yeah i do understand that.
 
9:13 AM
in C you always get a decay except for sizeof
 
But what i find weird is
that such similar operations as + and - have different behaviors.
 
Wow, I never noticed that, I always just casted to make the purpose clearer
for adding*
 
@CheersandhthAlf You deserve some upvotes for that, go answer that :-)
@CheersandhthAlf And thank you :P
 
Already two answers basically stating the same thing
Hmm, I can't think of any point in time where I've added two pointers? How did it come to your attention?
 
Ilike that @CheersandhthAlf explained why - is defined yet + is not.
 
9:18 AM
Morning everyone!
 
Hey.
 
@CheersandhthAlf Oh well, thanks anwyay ;)
 
Just reading What's new in Visual C++ on MSDN
"Visual C++ provides a powerful and flexible development environment for creating Windows Metro-style applications as well as desktop applications in native C++ or based on Microsoft .NET–based applications."
It amuses me how they put Metro-style crap in front of desktop applications
"as well as desktop applications" - like that is a thing of the past
 
All I noticed is that all the menu items in the IDE are renamed and shuffled around and they have support of intellisense
 
And the color theme is a lifeless gray with two shades of it.
 
9:21 AM
well, and that it takes much more memory and CPU time. Way more than 2008 for sure
 
mawnin
 
None the less, I still downloaded it, lol. Midaswell get used to the IDE.
 
At least there is some direct targeting for x64 platforms, no more necromancy involved in order to support something that has been available for the better part of the last decade.
 
@DomagojPandža I never had issues compiling for x64 in 2010, or, if I recall vaguely, 2008
 
@ScottW Yeah, heard about that unfortunate ordeal. Forcing it on people to drive adoption should really make you ask yourself "Is my product crap?"
And the answer of that introspection is: "Yes, Microsoft, it is."
 
9:26 AM
well, never mind them cutting XP support in VS2011, now they're cutting Vista and 7 support too
@ScottW That's a damn stupid thing to say
there are companies which do way more money whoring than Microsoft
 
EA is the king of the world in that department.
 
and Activision
@ScottW If you have the brains of a keyboard, it is.
 
I really don't mind microsoft. Well atleast when you compare it to apple.
 
it's created and used exclusively by pointless elitist fuckfaces who have no idea what they're talking about
I don't go around saying "Failfox" just because I use Chrome, or "Crapple" because I run Windows
 
Firefox does have a lot of memory leaks though
btw @ScottW I was working on a project with XNA earlier in C# as well. I think its a pretty cool framework.
 
9:29 AM
pointless bias against a software vendor only makes all our lives worse
 
Chrome creates multiple processes for every tab with one additional primary which holds key components prone to error. Something goes woosh in one of the tabs, the primary dies and Chrome dies. I don't like their selling point of separate failsafe process per tab methodology.
But other than that, it's great.
 
Chrome's quality has declined significantly over the last couple of year
it used to be quite bulletproof
 
Well if you have a processor anything like mine, chrome will ruin you.
 
what do you have, a P4?
 
9:31 AM
lol
 
my machine at home is a Q6600 and it can cope with Chrome just fine
I mean, the Conroe line was very strong, but it's like, seven years old or someshit like that
 
I've got I7 930 and believe it not, it runs chrome just fine :)
 
that I doubt
 
Well, it was on my older computer. I don't notice a difference in performance on this computer.
 
@ScottW Chrome probably uses instructions like SSE2 and stuff that would not function
 
9:32 AM
earthquake
 
@Jeremy If you don't know the specs, it mattereth not
 
firefox apparently has an incredibly large and complex code-base, or so I've been told by a friend.
 
@Jeremy Benefits of a render architect. :D i7, 16 GB of DDR3 RAM, 2xHD6990. Sure, sometime it makes noise that would put the Concorde to shame, but it's well worth it. :D
 
@Jeremy in 2008 it was over 5 GB.
 
@DomagojPandža Fuck m
wait, no SSD?
 
9:34 AM
Seriously? Thats huge.
 
SSD is the way to go, although I have a 1 TB HDD for crap that doesn't need to jump immediately
 
It's an enormous amount of code for such a crappy product.
 
yeah, I have an SSD and a 1TB mech drive
 
Imagine trying to debug that...
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik You dont like mozilla firefox?
 
9:35 AM
Imagine trying to refactor that.
 
lol
 
@ScarletAmaranth I dislike web browsers that take longer than .2 seconds to start up. I want to get on the web quickly.
 
Idk, apparently too many features are being added too quickly, and the debuggers are moving slow than the people creating the bugs
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Safari takes its sweet time to launch
 
At least, it took ages to start two years back.
 
9:36 AM
it's the slowest browser on PC, me thinks.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik That's weird, my firefox fires up faster than chrome.
 
@Domagoj Safari launches instantly on my machine.
 
I agree
I'm using IE right now actually
 
WHAAT ?
 
over firefox (which keeps crashing)
 
9:37 AM
IE and swift used in one sentence ?
 
the new IEs really aren't that bad
they have to fix their damn versioning, though
 
On my iMac, it flies. But Windows, I don't know, perhaps something on my side is bogging it down.
 
Chrome has put a big winner with it's automatic updates and single target
and Firefox has followed them for good reason
 
yeah it isn't bad at all
 
9:38 AM
I was going to do something
but I forgot what it was
 
I use Safari most of the time. Sometimes I use Chrome if I need mod rights on SO or if I want to test my web app with multiple accounts.
 
I prefer respect for standards, if Microsoft gets their shit straight with Internet Explorer (and from what I hear, IE 9 tries hard), I'll be willing to support it in my further development.
 
@ScottW That's why they must fix their versioning
 
You should not do that.
 
or ten years from now, IE9 will be the next IE6
 
9:39 AM
web standards are a mess. I swear I was working on a project with CSS, I had to do many hacks to get it working cross-browser. Mind you, I am not a good web-developer.
 
Only stupid old companies still use IE6. Boycot it.
 
CSS is a shitball, as far as I can tell
 
CSS needs to support mathematical expressions.
 
I actually detect whether there is IE~6 on the machine with JS and output a little box on the page that they should upgrade their browser to the newest version or better yet, try Chrome, Firefox or Safari.
 
@ScottW THey care more about the semantics now, and you have CSS3.
And new JS features, such as web sockets and file drag and drop.
 
9:41 AM
HTML5 and CSS3 are very neat upgrades, slowly being adopted in their full form in browsers, without vendor specific prefixes
which is nice
Although I evade structuring pages with the new tags, it doesn't feel right.
I like to div the shit out of my page.
 
CSS y u no Turing complete.
Would be fucking neat.
 
Perhaps in the future, we'll get some math inside, even just the basic stuff would be nice
 
I can't write any HTML or CSS without a manual. Usually, I just open dreamweaver.
 
@Jeremy HTML tries to help out there, no more long doctypes, just <!DOCTYPE html>
and hack away
and a lot of other stuff
HTML5*
 
I write HTML and CSS in my dreams. No need for DreamWeaver.
 
9:43 AM
Ahh, I'll have to take a look at it then.
 
HTML5 is a great improvement imho.
 
I don't know what to weave means. :P
looking up in Oxford
 
my god I have to brush up on my acronyms
 
Weave - to intersect through a plane in a sinusoidal fashion.
 
9:46 AM
meh fashion
 
@Jeremy FTFY is a bit uncommon, it's Fixed that for you
 
geek fashion
FTFY is pretty common. FTFY
 
yeah I looked it up in the acronym list, lol. Thanks.
Out of curiosity, do you guys use mMember or m_member for class member variables? Or no prefix at all?
 
I don't use any kind of notation for members and never had a problem with it
 
member_ for private members. member for public and protected ones.
 
9:48 AM
and in a modern IDE you don't need it
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik That's scary, i use the same notation. Where did you see it ?
 
just like other Hungarian notation
 
I always have trouble naming the args of the constructor when I don't suffix the members.
 
if they're just copied or moved right in to a member, I just don't bother
or I suffix them with arg or something
 
I prefer to use _ in front of every single character descriptor
p_backBuffer (camelback for the rest of it)
 
9:50 AM
why on earth would you use p_backBuffer?
 
if there are multiple, for example a global pointer, i tend to write g_pName
 
ah I see, I just use m_, I guess its more of a habbit. If its a public variable\property I always capitalize it
 
isn't backBuffer fine on it's own?
 
@Domagoj you must be a Windows user.
I only canelcase types. Rest is all lowercase with underscores. Macros are uppercase with underscores.
 
It's a tendency I developed over the years, I like to signalize myself, helps with debugging.
 
9:52 AM
I do the same. Global integer would be int g_iNumber. private members int m_iCount public member int Count
 
VS will tell me the full type of any variable I want as soon as I mouse over it, even in debugging
Hungarian notation is just duplicating that information pointlessly
and ensuring that it goes out of date
 
but I avoid maknig variables public, usually just use get\set accessors or properties
 
Xcode does that with code completion. Would he cool to have it on mouse-over though (esp. when using auto). I'm going to file a bug.
 
oh, and it will also give the scope
e.g. int class::member
 
@DeadMG True enough, with today's IDEs, it's almost pointless. But still, it's a habit. Hard to get rid off. Though, I seem not to use it on Apple platforms, well at least when Obj-C is concerned
 
9:54 AM
I'd say "with today's IDEs, it's incredibly pointless and the information will go out of date rapidly, creating more work for the developer"
 
Programming in Objective-C without an IDE is like fishing without a fishing rod.
 
lol
I've never touched object-c, don't intend on it either. Maybe I'm just too stubborn.
 
It's the most verbose language ever. XD
 
lol
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik More than Java ?
 
9:55 AM
as far as I can tell, it's like C++ but they implemented a lot of OO features a lot worse, and skipped many useful features like templates
 
(Common conventions included.)
 
It's more of a necessity on Apple platforms, I tend to do only the boilerplate with it and interconnect it with C++ (and the crap Apple forces my hand remains in Obj-C)
It has a cute syntax though, [object message] style
 
[[[NSArray alloc] initWithContentsOfURL:[[[NSURL alloc] initWithFilePath:@"/foo"] autorelease] autorelease] :P
 
Objective-C is a smelly C hacked over for struct based classes which are faked with a runtime, sprinkled to feel like Smalltalk
a strict superset by definition
 
@Radek something like that just blows my mind. So many keywords used so many times
 
9:57 AM
everything drops back to C and the runtime fills in the holes necessary for it's more "prominent" OO features
 
No keywords at all…
 
tokens* idk what you call them
 
All class and method names and one string literal.
At least you can immediately tell what it does. :P
 
Not really, no.
 
It initializes the array with the contents of a file at a given URL.
 
9:59 AM
it's also funny how functions are created, you actually verbose the shit out of them,

doThingOne:(thing one) withthingTwo:(thing two)

which would usually be doStuff(thing one, thing two)
- is used to specify an instance level method and + is a class level method (equivalent of a static method in C++ classes)
 
sigh maybe I am just too use to regular C syntax. But I totally missed what the function was supposed to do
 

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