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10:00 AM
Interleaving arguments with the method name is a good concept, but in practice it doesn't work.
 
Yeah, feels strange and it's a drag to do it. And without XCode, it would be a suicide writing Obj-C code
 
@ScottW now you can do myMutableArray[0], finally.
 
those massive sausages
 
what do you call symbols like '{' ? Tokens?
keycharacters :S
 
Curly braces.
Punctuation.
 
10:02 AM
A thing.
 
Terminal.
 
I mean, when a particular character has a significant meaning to the compiler
 
That's a so called "Squigly bracket".
 
Token?
 
10:03 AM
A token I guess.
 
It would be so nice if Microsoft recognized that OpenGL ought to be more supported on the platform.
 
good point
 
Here's a silly question: On a keyboard that has no function keys, is it somehow possible to generate an "F1" during bootup?
 
Throwing outdated shit that requires hours of premeditation to get to 4.0.
 
@ScottW if you don't want to count them, punctuation.
 
10:03 AM
Really, I know they like DirectX, but you can't ignore OpenGL and it's place in the industry.
 
@DomagojPandža Why? They've pretty successfully pushed DirectX. The war is over and DX won it.
 
DirectXBox 360
 
OpenGL now is like Apple- they succeeded by moving from PC to other platforms, because Microsoft won.
 
@DomagojPandža What do you mean?
 
and frankly
 
10:04 AM
I love DirectX. But I also support OpenGL in my engine since it has to go to the Apple platform.
 
I'm fine with that
@DomagojPandža Having to re-write your rendering code for a different OS is no big deal.
especially as the DX code is much higher quality than the OGL code
not as high quality as it could be ... but much higher
 
True, I love the more interface oriented approach.
 
I think a render engine should just implement the both, and if they have to choose one, DirectX
 
and I don't know about your clients, specifically
but the overall desktop market is like, 90% Windows or something like that
 
I implement DirectX 10 and 11 support, as well as OpenGL (modern core profiles)
Yeah, ~90% is Windows
 
10:05 AM
so arguably, and by the majority of 3D applications (games), OpenGL support and Mac support is optional
 
I'm too lazy to implement DirectX.
 
I have heard that OpenGL was implemented using DirectX in Windows.
 
Dropped 9.0c support, it's pointless. 8800 has been around since November 2006.
 
XP users hate you.
 
A lot of graphics vendors don't implement OpenGL very well either. I've only ever had problems with OpenGl.
well
 
10:06 AM
I'm still using 9.0c
 
those targeting the windows platform*
 
there's no reason to upgrade
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Not really, no.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik There's a project called ANGLE
but that's for WebGL
being implemented in terms of DirectX
 
10:07 AM
DirectX10 doesn't offer anything I want or need over DX9, and DX11 isn't widely supported enough to justify using it exclusively
 
I like OpenGL because I can write one codepath for all platforms.
 
Somebody was wrong then.
 
It's greaat.
 
I'd like the GPU compute capabilities of AMP/DirectCompute, but it's not widespread enough
so IMO, DX10 is the irrelevant one in this equation
it's got none of the features of DX11 and none of the compatibility of DX9
 
DirectCompute is quite important for advanced deferred rendering (tile based, shuffling threads and shit)
Helps with GI techniques as well
 
10:08 AM
also, apparently, decompressing textures
 
Wow, I have to volunteer tomorrow. Why am I up at 3AM...
 
If you don't need advanced rendering, 9.0c is more than fine, SM 3.0 is more than capable for outputting nice results.
 
yes
I'm not saying that DX11 can't produce nicer things than DX9 because it definitely can
but it's not adopted enough for me to consider it
and DX10 is just junk
maybe when Windows 8 comes out, they'll ship an SP for 7 and Vista so DX11 and Direct2D/DirectWrite can work together properly
@ScottW DX11.1 is the only supported for Metro.
 
The only thing from DX10 I appreciate is the geometry shader and DX11 has added some nice things in terms of the hull/domain shader for tessellation
It's almost like free LoD
as a function of distance from the camera
 
true, but I'm pretty advantaged in that area, in that, I have currently no need whatsoever for any complex effects
 
10:11 AM
Whats the general length of a personal statement? I'm at 800 words - it sounds fair doesn't it?
 
I'm colour-coding my 3D objects so that pretty much throws things like texturing and lighting out the window
@Jeremy Ours were either 1000 words or 2000 words
 
Alright, thanks.
 
@ScottW No, per pixel
it's a 3D simulation, and in order to make depth perception easy, I colour code each pixel as a function of depth
due to some other aspects, it's otherwise very difficult to perceive depth
 
@Pubby lol. GCC is definitely wrong doing it right to left!
 
HSV, where S and V are 1, and H is 0-1 distance from 0, bottom of the simulation, to 1, top of the simulation
 
10:14 AM
@JohannesSchaublitb Hehe, post a comment!
 
then simple shader to convert from HSV to RGB and output
 
in this case, the {..}'es is a function call. but nevertheless the spec says that even in these cases, it is left to right
@Pubby the advantage over using int a[] = { LAMBDAHERE } is that the pack in the wikipedia example can also be empty
but in the array brace init thing, it must be non-empty
 
Ah, makes sense
 
mouse wheel? :P
 
10:19 AM
separate them into two groups and then move them through each other
you'll see collision avoidance activate and they should dodge each other
some of them will go, e.g., underneath or above other units
which the colouring will aid you to see
 
I see blackness.
 
tis what my brother said
 
And clicking on part of blackness makes red thingies appear.
 
@CatPlusPlus Had that problem with another friend's machine as well. DX9 is a fan of silent failures.
 
10:21 AM
And right clicking makes them wiggle.
 
the red thingies are supposed to be selection lines
and right clicking orders what you've selected around
 
They're dancing.
 
so it randomly fails to render and I have no idea why
my machine and my brother's machine are fine but his failed and Scott's is fine and yours failed
 
Blackness here too. :Đ
 
directx9, y u silent fail :(
 
10:22 AM
@JohannesSchaublitb what's the exact meaning of template< typename ... args >? is it like &&?
 
Read thingies now interacting based on the green line direction
 
@CheersandhthAlf variadic templates
 
Well, at least you know something's not working.
 
@CatPlusPlus True. It would be nice if it would not work a little less silently, though
 
@CheersandhthAlf what do you mean? it is a template parameter pack
 
10:23 AM
I even turned on all the return code checking in Release mode to catch it
but nothing
 
I think its pretty cool
 
@Pubby i told Doug that this is wellformed and then he added that PR xD
 
Oh sorry, i meant the exact meaning of the functoin's Args... args
 
It means you can shove a bunch an arbitrary number of arguments, and you're making a promise you'll accomodate them all
 
does it make everything pass by value?
 
10:24 AM
Debug runtime says nothing?
 
not here, at least
 
@CheersandhthAlf i do not understand
@CheersandhthAlf ah i see
 
although in my experience, the Debug runtime is ... less than helpful, often
 
There should be some DX debugger, methinks, if GL has some.
 
10:24 AM
@JohannesSchaublitb Alright
 
it's mostly DirectX 9's fault
 
why doug use that?
 
the specification mandates many silent failure conditions
in addition, lots and lots and lots is "optional"
any chance I can grab a copy of your device caps
 
That's the beauty of DirectX 10+, a common feature set across the board, only thing that differs is performance. :D
No caps enumeration :D
In the traditional sense, anyways :D
 
10:26 AM
How to get 'em.
 
got dx sdk? else I send you executable which can do it
 
@CheersandhthAlf i do not understand
 
why does he pass lambdas by value?
 
@ScottW Unimplemented :P
 
Yeah, I have it.
 
10:28 AM
@CatPlusPlus DXCapsViewer is one of the utilities it ships
 
DXCapsViewer, I presume.
 
I have an entry in my Start bar
yep
 
Fuck it. I'm starting over.
 
just need the D3D9 caps, not the DirectSound stuff
I'll probably find some WTF where I assumed there was no way something so simple could be a cap
 
TIL: My code sucks.
 
10:29 AM
in the code of one of my coworkers I found this:
 
"Print subtree to file", and now where did you put this, you stupid program that couldn't use standard save dialog.
 
deletes hours of work
 
lol
 
QString empty = "--.---- kV";
empty.repeated(values.size());
empty = ""; ...
label->setText(empty.repeated(values.size()));
 
I actually don't know
ah
on the desktop, apparently
 
10:31 AM
Biggest mistake I've ever made was using a really crap search & replace on my enitre solution. sigh
 
i mean, WTF lol
 
Microsoft no like standard dialogs implemented by their very own COM.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb naming a non-empy string empty? repeating an empty string?
Also: repeated should be a free function.
 
Lol, it was a while ago on a small project
it really sucked.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik i thought i would lose my marbles
 
10:32 AM
xD
 
It was just a personal project, I didn't bother to setup a svn or anything. I probably should've though...
 
Xcode y u default strip debug symbols to "yes" for debug builds.
 
@Jeremy Rule #1: Have source control
Rule #2: Have backups
 
lol xd
 
@sehe for every single project.
 
TYTY
 
Stripping debug symbols should only be done when packaging the release.
 
I know. Xcode is dumb.
 
Which reminds me of a team that was working on ZombieMaster. Somehow they managed to lose the entire source code and had to start over from scratch
 
@JohannesSchaublitb that looks complicated but really, it just sets the text to ""?
 
10:35 AM
yes
 
or maybe it was ZM2
 
and then repeats it
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Is it a bug?
I hope so.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik i think so!
 
Xcode doesn't let me delete any files. Reason:
> fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
 
10:36 AM
There's no reason not to keep your repo on remote.
 
I need to find a hobby. Anybody knows a project which is being worked on, a 3D game or something? I'd really like to help out with their rendering code.
 
@ScottW DVCS: I have post commit hooks that push to my web-headend and nightly automatic backups do the rest. Stuff that actually matters is mirrored to their official repos or on github
@RadekdaknokSlupik Looks like you configured the .git/ folder as the repo root for a non-bare repo
 
@sehe There is no Git repository at all.
I still have to set it up.
 
@ScottW DVCS. What part of that wasn't clear :)
@RadekdaknokSlupik Oh. Oops. grep the project file for 'git'
 
10:38 AM
@JohannesSchaublitb Johannes
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Don't make it look like he's so one-sided <-- improved search
 
Xcode is glitching today.
 
Only today?
 
Only yesterday it refused to work overtime
 
10:40 AM
XCode 4 is a major technical failure, feature set is nice, but it has a lot of quirks unworthy of a vendor-class IDE.
And Apple's perpetual ideology to do everything for developers with the interface design, transitions and crap is pissing me off. Every fool can push an appcrap today.
Observing Release Date lists makes me cry.
 
@ScottW No idea, I jsut recall reading a thread on their forum
I think it was managed primarily by one man
 
Sure as hell
 
lol
 
"I'm not saying you're not good at it, I'm just saying that what you're doing is not worth doing."
 
I've been working on this chess http server for school - there is ony copy of the project and its on the school server. Not even backed up on a USB...
 
10:46 AM
@Jeremy But you can trust the school to backup their server, no?
 
Not really. It wouldn't be the first time entire solutions have gone missing. Happens all the time in my class :S
I guess I'm just lucky though
well not all the time
I make it sound worse than it is
but it happens
 
He's the lord, fucking cool, oh my god... Me gusta, our feather, our god. Rub it in, rub it in... Damn, I need to play some Skyrim today.
 
My god. I never play video games, but skyrim sucked me in for literally like 20 hours straight
 
fuck
there's absolutely nothing useful whatsoever in the dev caps
 
10:49 AM
Anyways, I'm going to head to bed. Good night guys.
 
what's the most effective way to improve your immune system?
ohhh
 
Laters!
 
by the way
radeon mobility 5650- I assume that means you're using laptop?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb eat fruits & vegatables
 
what's the best fruit?
 
10:53 AM
Hurmikaki
 
i hear lemon is best
 
pineapple
 
an apple a day keeps the doctor away
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Pizza.
 
10:55 AM
MSDN is so damn entertaining
Reading things like this in 2012:
 
i dont wanna miss döner. so when i awake i will eat one lemon and one kiwi. afternoon i will get one kohl kopf
 
Welcome Back to C++ (Modern C++)
Modern C++ emphasizes:

std::string and std::wstring types instead of raw char[] arrays.
 
i think that will cure the harm döner causes!
@DomagojPandža IMO that'S a bad advice
 
That's MSDN for you :D
 
Good morning everyone! This is my first time in the chat, a recently aquired priviledge it seems ^_^
 
10:56 AM
because it does not explain the exceptions
every rule has exceptions. and in this case they are important to know
 
One perhaps weird topic/question, but why the fuck do two cats stand 20 cm from each other and literally scream all day?
And all night.
 
There's only one explanation. They were wearing the same dress last night.
 
their GPS is off. They should be on top of each other
 
As quantum mechanics is my witness, I'm going to reinterpet cast them into the dead.
For hours, just screaming. Really loud, unbearable screaming.
 
hey, is anyone here in the mood to give me a hint on a question I posted?
 
11:02 AM
@DomagojPandža lol
@damian If I was in the mood to answer questions, I wouldn't be here, I'd be checking the questions list. But I'm significantly more angry that everyone else. If you post a link, someone other than me might take pity and help you
 
@DomagojPandža You can take the issue away by asserting dominance. Just pee over the stretch of lawn that they fight over/in. That will mark it as your territory.
 
@sehe What a stellar advice fine sir.
 
lol, I just wanted to know if it was ok with the chat rules..
here is the question:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10764974/stdvector-push-back-and-class-constructor-not-being-called
 
@damian It is ok but noone is obliged to answer :)
 
Of course not! ^_^
 
11:03 AM
@DeadMG hey you already answered that Q
 
@sehe Addressing felines like a sir. Hats off to you! :D
 
Hahahah, that awkward moment when DeadMG realizes that he indeed answered the question.
 
There's a reason we call him the Dead MG
cue: woof
 
@damian Oh, I already answered that question. But in light of your SSCCE, I'm going to edit my answer
 
Oh DeadMG you are here, thank you very much if you can! ^_^
 
11:08 AM
@damian Did. You made a fairly simple mistake which was easily diagnosed once I saw the more complete sample.
 
@DeadMG I am sure I did something wrong but I can't seem to understand exactly what...
 
my answer explains that in some detail
 
@DeadMG cool ^_^
 
I just removed those cats from the scene graph. Would've forced their destructors as well, but they ran away.
 
Ell
hi guys
 
11:13 AM
Hello
 
Anyone notice something odd here: pastebin.com/cFmMjqPn
 
Ell
nope, but I don't know anything
 
luckily, nVidia thinks that my GPU is, in fact, not boiling
 
your CHASSIS3 fan speed is a bit WTF
41RPM? what are you doing, pushing it round with your hand?
4
 
Ell
haha
 
11:15 AM
you've also got a large variance between your CPU cores there
 
@DeadMG My fans are running very very low, and everything except the CPU fan is disconnect from the mobo anyways.
 
34 degrees and 47 degrees? I smell uneven thermal paste
unless the loads aren't equal right now, I guess
 
@DeadMG Could be time to reapply thermal paste, but I wager I had just exercised some CPU's by restarting clang compilation, so one core might just not have gotten so much work yet
 
fan1: 784 RPM (min = 1268 RPM, div = 8) ALARM
below minimum RPM?
 
Yeah, but still it would've "rubbed off" on the second one. 13 degrees is quite a bit
 
11:17 AM
Well the main thing that attracts my attention is
> temp3: +119.0°C (high = +80.0°C, hyst = +75.0°C) ALARM sensor = thermistor
 
Yeah, but that might just mean
 
yeah
 
that the sensor is off
the difference is huge
 
I haven't the foggiest what temp3 is actually a reading of.
 
but with the rest of your case in the 30-40 degree range, it's really quite unlikely that it's actually 120 degrees over there
 
Ell
11:17 AM
but pour a bucket of ice water on it just in case
 
coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:       +51.0°C  (high = +78.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:       +39.0°C  (high = +78.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 2:       +47.0°C  (high = +78.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 3:       +47.0°C  (high = +78.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
 
see, the other three have roughly the same temp in that reading and in the other one you linked
but Core 1 is consistently several degrees lower#
but truth be told, the 120 degree warning is very unlikely to be accurate
 
@DeadMG Precisely, this is the first time I actually used the sensors since I installed Mint, and I'm guessing it is including some bogus readings.
 
any hardware would power down at that temp reading
 
@DeadMG My old GeForce 6800GT didn't ... and died :(
 
11:19 AM
@DeadMG Precisely.
I'll have a shutdown and see whether the BIOS 'health' section comes up a little more accurate.
coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:       +47.0°C  (high = +78.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:       +42.0°C  (high = +78.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 2:       +41.0°C  (high = +78.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 3:       +43.0°C  (high = +78.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
looking more balanced after a while of clang compiling in the background
Ok, I'm off for groceries. See ya later
 
Ell
byebyes
 
Hey, I just started reading "C++ templates- The complete Guide".
Any opinions on it, from those who've read it ?
 
@manasij7479 ... It's good ... but advanced.
@manasij7479 If you have just started C++ also then just wait a few months before even attempting to read it :)
 
I know.
I've already read Effective C++ and a few other books, so I think I'm not a beginner anymore.
I thought about waiting for TC++PL 4th edition for reading my first advanced book... but this seems fine.
 
11:36 AM
@DeadMG I think I see what's going on here... std::vector is copy constructing the elements I insert after the first one with the modified values of the first that I inserted and changed after inserting it but before inserting more. That's pretty misleading if one isn't aware of the inner functionings of vector I say ^_^
 
@damian Not really. It's a simple fact of how vector must operate- and an explicitly stated requirement of all elements in all Standard containers that they must be copyable.
(movable in C++11).
when the vector only has N element capacity but you try to push_back another, then it must resize it's internal storage and copy the elements to the new buffer
non-copyable elements in C++03 are quite rare and you should explicitly disable the copy constructor to prevent funky shit happening
in C++11 things are better with move semantics
 
@DeadMG Yeah but instead of constructing the new elements using their own constructor it just copies the values of the first one inserted ^_^
 
@damian It's similar to shallow copy / deep copy kind of thing really.
 
@damian It uses the copy constructor. The compiler generated one for your class as the Standard dictates.
std::vector cannot possibly know what user-defined constructors exist or how to use them, it can only use the special constructor provided for the task of copying elements- the copy constructor
this is why the Rule of Three exists
and, partially, why you should never roll your own resource handling- the Standard classes have already done it better, usually
 
@DeadMG I read about the rule of the three as you adviced (actually re-read it, I seem to have forgoten it) and added a copy constructor, now I can clearly see in the debugger that vector is directly filling the temporary copies with the values of the first element that I modified after inserting it.
 
11:40 AM
@damian I must agree with DeadMG. There's a very basic concept your missing and it has nothing to do with std::vector. If you have whatever data allocated and a pointer pointed to it, copy constructor will simply copy the pointer which points to the same data. That's why you have specify the copy constructor to actually copy the data it points to as well.
 
@damian It won't alter the temporaries at all. It will copy the internally stored elements when it needs to resize.
the point is that copying is an extremely common operation in C++, for example, simply passing or returning by value, and you must deal with it for all classes- code so that either the implicit one is fine (as is common) or explicitly disable it
or move-only is OK in C++11
damn, I was thinking about something but I forgot what
 
@DeadMG I love when that happens, that feeling of numb frustration while trying to find out what you were thinking a moment ago :D
 
Ell
@DomagojPandža you love it when that happens? :L
 
It's an interesting sensation. Happens rarely, so I might as well cherish it. =)
 
Ell
haha fair enough
anyone here have experienve with cairo?
 
11:51 AM
Im trying to get this straight and print it into my mind. The process goes like this:

1. I statically instance an object. constructor is called.
2. I push it into a vector. A copy is created and copy constructed with the original one and stored into the vector.
3. The original object is destroyed.
4. I access the element in the vector and change it's values.
5. I statically instance anoter object. Constructor is called.
6. I push it into the vector. A copy is created and copy constructed with the values of the first element in the vector.
 
@damian You're actually missing a couple copies.
but essentially, yes, there's a buttload of copying going on
 
That's what the debugger is showing, not necessarily what is actually happening :) But thanks
 
no problem
 
Ell
cairo, y u use wrong colour!?
 
One of my favorite sports on Stackoverflow is answering questions spot on, additionally helping the user until he solves the problem entirely... And not getting the answer mark in the end. Sad panda is sad.
 

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