« first day (587 days earlier)      last day (4360 days later) » 

10:00 AM
@StackedCrooked: Also, reference members are more trouble than it's worth.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph No, we aren't. That's because I have never claimed that it never makes sense to not to make a ctor non-public. What I have been arguing is that there is no sane use case for singleton. And a non-public ctor by itself does not make a class a singleton.
 
@LucDanton Yes, definitely. They should be passed as parameters, and only in very rare occasions should the client code access a “global” object
 
Definitively schizophrenic. You want construction/access to be funneled into one factory function that you don't even want to call that much.
 
@KonradRudolph Is that single object mutable or immutable?
 
Might as well have only private constructors and make main a friend.
Call that idiom a mainatee. Write a book. Get rich.
2
 
10:03 AM
@sbi But why do you care that the class may not internally return the same object
 
@LucDanton Hey, that's not the worst idea ever! I'll call the book maintaining your mental health!
 
@Jeremy aaargh y u tag C?
 
Oh did I?
 
@FredOverflow A more convoluted advanced design can give access for construction to main but still restrict access to the rest of the private/protected interface.
 
Fixing it
oh
 
10:04 AM
@Jeremy I already did.
 
you already got it?
 
@FredOverflow I can’t think of a single case (but I don’t want to exclude one just because I lack imagination) where a mutable singleton would have more advantages than disadvantages
 
Thanks.
 
also I left a simple but all too effective answer
 
@LucDanton Huh?
 
10:05 AM
*Leaves for 20 minutes, comes back and sees people still talking about Singletons*
*Turns around and leaves again.*
 
@Neil I like trains.
And multithreaded rendering.
On a running train.
 
lol xd. I was starting to think so. Plan B: Write a programming language that provides enough meta-data or look in to C++ meta-template programming
 
@Neil We can discuss others things if you stay. For example, is while(true) slower than for(;;)?
 
@Jeremy That's still impossible.
 
10:07 AM
@KonradRudolph You make a distinction between those users of the type that don't need to construct instances and those users that do. Where I think it goes wrong is trying to enlist the type system to help (where all we have is private/protected/public/friend).
 
the only way to implement it is to significantly restrict a language, not increase it.
 
@FredOverflow Is it really?
 
and there would be no realistic way to do that for any language which can place calls to the Windows API- like, say, virtually all of them- that you don't control.
 
22
Q: Is "for(;;)" faster than "while (TRUE)"? If not, why do people use it?

Chris Cooperfor (;;) { //Something to be done repeatedly } I have seen this sort of thing used a lot, but I think it is rather strange... Wouldn't it be much clearer to say while(true), or something along those lines? I'm guessing that (as is the reason for many-a-programmer to resort to cryptic code)...

 
@FredOverflow that would be an equanimical matter
 
10:08 AM
loop:
jmp loop
 
Hmm... Thats disappointing. I'll have to think of some other way of obstructing the code
 
OMG a goto! Let's discuss gotos. I love them.
 
isn't this generated for both @FredOverflow ?
 
lol
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Because I need two different objects to store two different states? Because I want to use it in two different threads?
 
10:09 AM
I was told, when I started programming, to pretend that "every time you used a goto you had to cut off your own finger"
 
@LucDanton Unfortunately we’ve reached a point where I’m no longer (!?) sure what you’re saying. All I am advocating is the use of builder functions over constructors, as a generalisation. And then it may happen that the builder sometimes returns identical objects for all invocations
 
@ScarletAmaranth I would think so, yes. Otherwise, throw your compiler out the window.
 
@FredOverflow Then why even the thought of discussion which one is faster :) ?
 
@KonradRudolph Builders instead of constructors? Yay! Singletons? Nay.
 
Paprikash.
 
10:10 AM
@sbi Well if that’s a reasonable use-case then the class shouldn’t be a singleton obviously. But there are cases where you can exclude that (all immutable objects, for starters)
 
@ScarletAmaranth At least it's got a definitive answer :)
 
@FredOverflow But the latter is just a (not very interesting) special case of the former.
@FredOverflow There’s no sense to specifically avoid it
 
I suppose the best next thing would be to find common code-signatures produced by a compiler and have predefined ways of dealing with them
 
Btw, goto:
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Didn't I just gave a real-world example where that case was excluded (for all the right reasons, back then), and it turned out to be wrong years down the road?
 
10:12 AM
@KonradRudolph I'm all for builders that return the same immutable object. But usually, Singletons are used for mutable objects.
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Identical objects or the same objects? (In C++, this difference matters. In Haskell with immutability, for example, there is no difference.)
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph If that is all that your are advocating, then why are you even talking about singletons?
 
@sbi Yes, but if the object had been used right (i.e. not everybody had called its instance method all over the place) then going from singleton to multiton would have been a trivial change.
 
@Xeo What is the difference between identical and same?
 
@FredOverflow Like I said above, I can’t think of a single case where a mutable object would be beneficial …
having a mutable singleton sure does cause problems
 
Xeo
10:13 AM
@FredOverflow same data vs same identity
 
It appears we have finally reached a common opinion on Singletons. How boring.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Sigh. (Did I mention I would regret this?) The whole point of using a singleton is that there's one global instance you can get at from anywhere. If there isn't such a global instance, it is not a singleton.
 
@Xeo I would call that identical vs. equal.
 
Yarrrr just pleas stop talking about singletons for I'll have nightmares this night ...
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Aye, bad wording choice
 
10:14 AM
I would like to take credit for bringing the singleton topic up btw.
 
26 mins ago, by sehe
45 mins ago, by sehe
I'd say, the greatest threat posed by Singleton is the potential to derail any conversation between developers and waste all creative energy.
 
lol, just kidding.
 
@ScarletAmaranth A single nightmare that's shared by all? ;)
 
@Jeremy I brought it up :P
 
@sbi And that’s where I disagree, hence the whole discussion. Many descriptions of singletons certainly advocate this ill-conceived usage, but well, they’re wrong.
 
sbi
10:15 AM
14 hours ago, by sbi
I'm afraid I'm gonna have nightmares tonight.
 
True xd
 
@DeadMG Nah, it was a response to his CV
 
which would have gone completely unnoticed if I hadn't called him out on it :P
 
@FredOverflow You're a cruel person ^^
 
@KonradRudolph wtf? Singletons are classes that only ever allow you create one instance. There is no debating that, unless you fancy debating what 'single' means
 
sbi
10:16 AM
@KonradRudolph So you say that "singleton", contrary to all popular use of the term, is not referring to a single, global instance, and then, based on that, you argue that singletons are not bad? I am sorry, but that's genuine bovine excrements.
 
@thecoshman that’s not the aspect I was contesting
 
@KonradRudolph what aspect are you contesting?
 
@KonradRudolph The Singleton Design Pattern has a very strict definition:
 
sbi
@Jeremy Do this again and you'll be banned from the room.
 
@sbi No, it is. The difference is that I said that singletons are normal objects which just happen to only provide instance
 
10:17 AM
- Ensure that only one instance of a class is created.
- Provide a global point of access to the object.
 
lol
 
Both of these points must apply, or else it's not a Singleton.
 
Amagad. It's like a rollercoaster. Yet another twist and roll
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Shrug. On that you are wrong. Period.
 
@FredOverflow If one of those points does not apply. Somewhat different.
 
10:17 AM
@thecoshman That you shouldn’t pass a singleton object around as an argument, and instead always calling Singleton::instance() to retrieve it
 
@DeadMG You are absolutely right. Better?
 
In software engineering, the singleton pattern is a design pattern that restricts the instantiation of a class to one object. This is useful when exactly one object is needed to coordinate actions across the system. The concept is sometimes generalized to systems that operate more efficiently when only one object exists, or that restrict the instantiation to a certain number of objects. The terms comes from the mathematical concept of a singleton. There is criticism of the use of the singleton pattern, as some consider it an anti-pattern, judging that it is overused, introduces unnecessary...
 
@sbi (Not that we started off better) that’s a purely baseless assertion with no back-up whatsoever
 
sigh I have to dig up that old kernel and see if it even still compiles. Worst yet, if it doesn't I have to debug it...
 
> In software engineering, the singleton pattern is a design pattern that restricts the instantiation of a class to one object. [Wikipedia]
 
10:18 AM
@KonradRudolph it doesn't matter which way you do it. I guess having the function having it passed in free's it from worrying about making the object. Effectively, they are the same
 
@thecoshman No, it does matter for the code quality
 
@KonradRudolph either way, you are using signletons, so code quality is out of the window already
 
@thecoshman No, that’s the whole point. You didn’t pay attention
 
@FredOverflow Indeed.
 
10:20 AM
@KonradRudolph and that is a moot point. You shouldn't be using singletons in the first place.
 
The detrimental aspect of singletons viz. code quality is the global access, not the fact that you only have a single object
 
@KonradRudolph maybe the fact that you can only have a single object (instance)
 
@thecoshman Can we please not have that discussion again?
 
@KonradRudolph I don't understand why you are debating how to use something that you shouldn't use
 
@thecoshman Because you are jumping the gun. I say that there are valid uses
 
sbi
10:22 AM
> This pattern makes unit testing far more difficult, as it introduces global state into an application. — Wikipedia
 
@sbi … when used wrong
 
@KonradRudolph Restricting a class to a single object is, as several people with practical experience have already reported, a maintenance time bomb. What if you ever need more than one?
 
It's like debating if you want to burn to death at 1000 degrees or 1010 degrees
 
sbi
So there you have it, @Konrad: a single object, and global state. That's not the same as a construction function.
 
@KonradRudolph citation needed
 
10:23 AM
@thecoshman Is that binary or decimal?
 
@thecoshman I'd prefer the latter ...
 
@FredOverflow Then you create more than one. If you have proper object passing then this is no problem at all, as we’ve also already established
 
@FredOverflow wtf? hex ofc
 
That's ballz, if you want hex, say 0x... :)
 
@thecoshman Gladly. Read this discussion.
 
10:24 AM
@KonradRudolph So we should pass Singletons around instead of calling the getInstance method? Interesting. Does anybody actually do that?
 
@KonradRudolph but you just state that you shouldn't pass the instance around! you said that ever that wants to use the singleton should use a 'getInstance' function
 
@FredOverflow Yes, as I have repeatedly said now
Man, this is turning in circles
 
@FredOverflow No, but then again, I don't see a point to create a class to have a single instance of the sodding thing ... :)
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph No, the same Wikipedia article you cited as a reference also says it introduces global state, and poses no restrictions on that statement. If you are using the term "singleton" in a different way, then you are using it in a way that's different from what it is meant to mean.
No wonder then this causes a heated debate in which nobody can convince the other side about anything: they are talking about different things. However, for such discussions the blame lies on whoever uses a term in a non-common way.
 
@FredOverflow “Does anybody actually do this?” – Yes, me!
 
10:25 AM
@ScarletAmaranth I'd like to knew the method of measurement
 
@sehe Mwah ?
 
But the Singleton Design Pattern says that everybody can access the Singleton via the getInstance method. If you don't do that, you're not really applying the Singleton Pattern, are you?
 
@sbi Damn, sbi, of course it does introduce global state, if used that way. Furthermore, nothing in the Wikipedia article obliges you to use it that way.
 
@KonradRudolph if you are passing the instance of the singleton into a function, you have already shown that you are considering a world in which there could be more then one instance, so you class shouldn't be a singleton
 
@thecoshman Why shouldn’t it? You haven’t shown that at all
 
10:26 AM
@thecoshman I love you.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph No. The article says "it introduces global state". It does not say "it does so when used in a certain way". You are simply wrong on that.
 
@KonradRudolph did you not read what I said? passing an instance (even if it's of a singleton) MEANS you could have more then one instance, so you don't use a singleton
 
@ScarletAmaranth If a ten-degree difference is relevant, then the measurement method should be rather well defined, since in a fire that temperature, rather large variations of temperature would normally be expected (except, e.g. if the experiment can be done in an atmosphere having the same temperature, which would be hard to accomplish)
 
Hurrr durrr, this chat reminds me of a poorly moderated forum, just with slightly higher average IQ :-)
 
@sehe Are you a scientist or something? :)
 
10:27 AM
@FredOverflow I'm not. I'm a phony
 
I think @KonradRudolph 's point is that if you program a singleton instance like any other instance, it makes it a trivial issue to convert from singleton to multi-instance usage, am I correct in saying that, Konrad?
 
@sehe Excuse me fine sir but I deal with idealized components :P
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth Higher IQ? What are you smoking? The only thing that's higher here than in a badly moderated forum is the response velocity. And that's a very bad thing.
 
@sbi First of all, you are attributing unwarranted preciseness to a Wikipedia article, for god’s sake. And secondly, yes, it does introduce global state but it does not oblige you to fall prey to this global state
 
@sbi Not really. It's chat.
 
sbi
10:28 AM
@Neil Yes, of course he does. But if you do so, then it is not a singleton anymore.
 
@thecoshman Well, you are wrong there. Because it still could be a single instance, in which case it would be a singleton
 
sbi
@sehe That's where the high response velocity comes from. Instant reaction isn't always a good thing.
 
@sbi Narrr, just ones presence here means that he's willing and wanting to learn, hence the IQ premise. Or that one's really bored ^^
 
@thecoshman In properly designed OO code, a singleton implements an interface, and what you pass around is an object which implements that interface
 
@sbi In chat, it is. Is the point. Now chat isn't always a good medium for meaningful discussion.
@KonradRudolph Mind if I quote the other room?
 
10:30 AM
12 mins ago, by FredOverflow
- Ensure that only one instance of a class is created.
- Provide a global point of access to the object.
 
And yes, there may be other conceivable implementations of that interface, and some of them may not be singletons
@sehe Go ahead (it’s public anyway)
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Um. you started off quoting that Wikipedia article. If you think it's not precise, dig out another reference that supports your POV re what "singleton" refers to.
 
The definite reference is the GOF book, but I don't own that piece of crap.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph For that you don't need a singleton.
 
400 less words later: docs.google.com/document/d/… I think its much better than before.
 
10:31 AM
@sbi I’m aware of the irony. But I quoted a general statement and didn’t try to make out Wikipedia as more precise than it is
 
@Jeremy Looks better: less daunting sea of words
 
@KonradRudolph no you are using idiotic logic. If you are passing an instance of a class into a function rather then using a 'getInstance' function to get the instance, it means you are accepting that you could have more then one instance. Thus you should not use a singleton
 
@sbi My point is (and has been, all along): if the object you pass happens to be a single-instance object where object creation is restricted, then it is a singleton
 
Thanks.
 
@thecoshman Please. The language.
 
10:32 AM
If you have a singleton, you should never ever pass an instance of it
 
@KonradRudolph Do you have a real world example of that?
 
@thecoshman could – yes. Where you are wrong is in saying that it isn’t a singleton anymore then. Because it also could only have one instance and restrict object creation, and then it’s a singelton
 
sbi
@FredOverflow You are way too young to appreciate that book. It was a revelation when it came out. You don't even notice that you follow a lot of its advice, because you were fed it when you still wet your diapers. That other advice given in the book turned out as not so helpful doesn't totally negate its value.
 
Still bitchin' about singletons?
 
in Room for sehe and Konrad Rudolph, 24 mins ago, by sehe
@KonradRudolph Yup, that's what I said all along. Sadly, a misunderstanding followed by unfriendly accusations. I'm sorry for any snide remarks I made in response.
in Room for sehe and Konrad Rudolph, 21 mins ago, by Konrad Rudolph
Same here, sorry it got so heated
 
10:33 AM
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to stab myself in an eye with a fork.
 
Large paragraphs are what killed me - too much on too little
 
@ScarletAmaranth Ok, we'll wait
 
@KonradRudolph I am not saying that it is no longer a singleton, but that it shouldn't be
 
@FredOverflow Yes. Again: a non-configurable resource manager (i.e. one which is created without parameters).
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph No, Konrad. You were quoting one part of the article as a defense of what you said. I quoted another part of the very same article showing you that you are wrong. Now you come and question the validity of the article. That's not irony, that's plain bullshit.
 
10:34 AM
@thecoshman That makes no sense. If it only allows one instance then, whether it should be or not, it is a singleton
 
Mmm. I'd say that good bullshit may involve large quantities of irony. I like it.
 
@sbi No, you quoted and interpreted something. I agree with the quote (more or less, it’s badly formulated), not with your interpretation (based on the bad formulation)
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph If there isn't a global accessor that can (and thus, will) be called from everywhere, it's not a singleton.
 
@sbi I have been "confronted" with Design Patterns for, I don't know, 10 years now, and I still think they are completely overrated. I find lots of other things way more fundamental and interesting, like higher order functions or currying or whatever.
 
I'm taking back the slightly higher IQ statement. Now I'm off to stab myself in the remaining eye with a fork.
 
10:35 AM
@sehe You like bullshit? How ironic.
 
user177977
screen readers will take your ears from you next.
 
After all this, I think I'll never use a singleton again. Either because:
A) As someone already said, its unsafe to predict the number of instances you'll need.
B) If A is an ignorant stance(and I'm not suggesting it is), then at least I can say its safe to avoid if I don't want to encounter contraversy with other programmers on the team.
 
@sbi The global accessor comes automatically when you have a constructor-like thing. Every constructor is a global accessor. Only not to global state.
 
@KonradRudolph yes it is, but it shouldn't be
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph I did not interpret it. I just quoted it. In full. You added a restriction to it that the original statement did not contain. Now who is interpreting it?
 
10:36 AM
if you are using singletons, for fucks sake stop!
 
@thecoshman that still makes no sense
 
yesterday, by FredOverflow
I don't care about interesting stuff being useless. That's why I love purely functional programming ;)
 
@thecoshman You are essentially saying “the set {3} should have more than one element! It’s bad that it has only one element.”
 
@KonradRudolph Constructors always return new objects that didn't exist before. It is impossible for a constructor to return an old (and thus possibly shared) object.
 
@sbi We both interpret, you cannot read a text without interpreting it.
 
10:37 AM
@FredOverflow If you don't care about interesting stuff being useless, I kindly suggest you switch field to Theoretical Mathematics :-)
 
@FredOverflow Yes. That’s why I said “only not global state”.
 
@KonradRudolph But you can quote it without interpreting. Too be very pedantic accurate
 
@sehe Higher order functions are extremely useful. You can get rid of many popular Design Patterns if your language has higher order functions.
 
@sehe But that’s not what @sbi did
 
@KonradRudolph no I am not. I am saying "yes, that is what a singleton is, but you shouldn't be using singletons"
 
sbi
10:38 AM
@FredOverflow Design patterns are only overrated because incapable Java programmers have nothing else to guide them in their coding. They are overrated in the same way (and for the same reasons) OO is overrated. They are still a very useful tool, though, where they (really) are applicable.
 
I completely agree.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph 'course I did.
16 mins ago, by sbi
> This pattern makes unit testing far more difficult, as it introduces global state into an application. — Wikipedia
 
@thecoshman You are only repeating yourself, it doesn’t make it better.
@thecoshman Sometimes a class just happens to only have one instance. There is nothing bad at all about this.
 
@KonradRudolph what else can I say?
 
@KonradRudolph Really? I know what you mean, but he did say exactly that. That's why I liked the pedantic precision. Of course, you both are saying lots more, which is what you likely refer to
 
10:39 AM
@thecoshman Something that makes sense. Or just be more specific. You are just saying “singletons are bad”. That’s not an argument.
 
user177977
I would like to take this moment to say: Bacon.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph No, and nobody say it is. All we're saying is that it is bad when a class happens to be restricted to only one instance.
 
@KonradRudolph oh, nothing wrong with only making one instance of a class. But there is in limiting it to only through the singleton anti-pattern
 
@zamabe I'd like to respond with: GTFO :)
 
@sbi And I’m saying that there is nothing inherently bad about it, and nobody has brought forth arguments that there is
 
10:40 AM
@KonradRudolph that arguments against singletons have been made very clear by others here
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph What he says does make sense. Only you're not accepting it.
 
26 mins ago, by sehe
26 mins ago, by sehe
45 mins ago, by sehe
I'd say, the greatest threat posed by Singleton is the potential to derail any conversation between developers and waste all creative energy.
 
@thecoshman No argument given. Again.
 
user177977
@sehe hehe
 
@sehe You should post that again in 26 minutes.
 
10:41 AM
Woot. I have found a nice rhythm.
 
@thecoshman No, they have not. Only against accessing a global instance() method from everywhere, which I have argued against myself, so we agree on that, but not on the rest.
 
I'm still right, too
 
@KonradRudolph ok ok, what are your views on global variables?
 
@thecoshman What's a veriable?
 
@thecoshman Different discussion, and not one I will start now, since I don’t have the time for it
 
10:42 AM
Okay what other Design Patterns are controversial?
 
@KonradRudolph singletons are just like global instances, except you can't latter on decide you need a separate instance, or to give something a const instance. They are almost identical to a pure static class, except you get lazy instantiation. There is nothing good about them
 
@thecoshman They are not. Period.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph But that are valid arguments against singletons, because global state is what singletons are about.
 
@KonradRudolph how are the different then?
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Didn't you just complain that no arguments have been brought up?
 
10:44 AM
@sbi Unless you use them wrong, their global state isn’t a problem. I agree that they encourage wrong usage in some circumstances, but that’s as far as I am willing to concede. And, again, that’s what I’ve said repeatedly.
@thecoshman Different discussion, see above.
@sbi I don’t prefer fallacious arguments over no arguments. It was just a wrong assertion, that’s not the same as an argument.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Singletons are there to be used this way. If this way is wrong, then so are singletons. If you refer to something used ina different way as a "singleton", then your are misusing the term.
@KonradRudolph It is. Period.
 
@sbi We all agree (yes! Look it up in the chat history!) that the original design pattern shouldn’t be advocated. But just because you use it more carefully doesn’t make it not a singleton.
@sbi It is what? An argument? Well, it’s still a bad (because wrong) one.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph If you are not using the design pattern originally coined "singleton", then you shouldn't name it "singleton", because this will lead to endless and pointless discussions which only serve to exhaust everyone participating.
 
Singletons make me want noodles. Because spaghetti.
 
@KonradRudolph you would only not use 'getInstance' if you where open to the idea that there could be more then one instance at a time. In which case, you clearly should not be using a singleton
 
10:49 AM
@sbi And that is precisely why I don’t advocate it. But there are two things: the commonly advocated usage, and the fundamental object description. Both are justifiably called “singleton”.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph If one was named first, then the usage of the same name for the other is not justifiable.
 
@thecoshman No, that is just wrong, and I have shown you above that it is. Namely, because you use an interface and the class implementing this interface can be swapped out.
 
Okay, I stop interrupting your interesting conversation.
 
@KonradRudolph what part is wrong? the fact that if you could have more then one instance, you should not use a singleton pattern?
 
@sbi The original GoF makes no such distinction – and even if it did, usage evolves. Compare current idiomatic C++ with idiomatic C++ in the early 90’s. Would you say that “idiomatic C++” is bad just because the 90’s version is bad?
 
10:51 AM
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yeah that's ok, all I did all this time was trolling this too. I find this absurd.
 
@thecoshman Yes
 
@KonradRudolph if you could possible have more then one instance of a glass, do not start throwing terms like 'singleton' at it. It's just stupid
 
@thecoshman What is wrong is that you ignore that an interface can be implemented by more than one class, and then assuming that only one class implements it, and only has one object, and then we should/could just use that class’ getInstance method
@thecoshman Fuck me, you don’t read, do you?
Once again, from the start
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph There's a problem with keeping using the same name for something that's different in some fundamental aspect(s). Basically, this is a reason we are now calling C++ from back then "C With Classes", even though that name had already been shed a decade earlier.
 
One interface. Implemented (potentially) by more than one class. One (or more) of these classes are singletons. The user sees the interface and cannot assume anything about the objects.
 
sbi
10:54 AM
@KonradRudolph No, please don't.
 
@KonradRudolph I don't give a fuck how you make your class singleton, if you can have more then one instance, you shouldn't use a fucking singleton pattern
 
@sbi I totally agree that there are problems. Which is why I don’t advocate using singletons like a said a fuckzillion times now.
 
@KonradRudolph so you are using it for polymorphism? and for some fucked up reason called the base class 'singleton'
 
@thecoshman “for polymorphism”? No, I’m using them in conjunction
 
facepalm
 
sbi
10:55 AM
Everybody here disagrees with you. Nobody has supported your POV. Nobody has supported your misuse of that term. You will not be convinced that everybody else has a point, but neither will you convince everybody else that using a term in a way that's not common, and, based on that, praising something that commonly despised, makes sense. Just give it up, will you.
 
@thecoshman Who said anything about a (base) class called singleton?!
 
"Fuckzillion" lol. 10^f
 
@KonradRudolph that is what I took from your meaning of 'One interface. Implemented (potentially) by more than one class'
oh I see what you are doing
 
@sbi First of all, that’s not true, the other “supporters” of my point just left before you arrived. And be more specific with “disagree”. It seems as you and me agree on everything but the term used, and I repeatedly said that I don’t advocate using this term
 
for a scary moment then, I thought you where writing functions that take a parameters that is anything that is a singleton
 
sbi
10:58 AM
I'll leave now. HAND.
 
@sbi I just thought that here we could have a more intelligent discussion that transcends mere semantics about names
 
@Jeremy lol
 
@KonradRudolph tell you what, I am going to start selling cyanide to, but I will call it 'tasty candy'. What is wrong with calling it that?
 
@sbi And the whole point of me starting the discussion was not to praise “something that is commonly despised”, but to draw a distinction between that abomination and a justifiable use of the underlying pattern that gets a lot of collateral flak (see @thecoshman).
 
everybody else considers constants and Singletons to be two entirely different things
 
11:01 AM
@DeadMG They are
 
@KonradRudolph what distinction? your defence seems to rely on you using signletons in a way that no one would call a singleton
 
Still discussing the Singleton? lol
 
srsly guise u still on that?
 
@thecoshman And that is not true, plenty of people, including some in this discussion (including you!) appear to call that valid usage “singleton”
@Cicada Come back in four days or so
 
Singleton is such a stupid term as it doesn't describe the design but instead the implementation
 
11:03 AM
Ewwww.
 
this is how the discussion started in the first place
@thecoshman See? Again! @Pubby did it again!
 
Oh well at least now I know how I can disrupt a conversation in this room. "I maed a singleotn"
 
WE'VE FOUND THE CULPRIT! :)
 
I'm here for an argument :)
My jonnies have been ruffled
 
@Cicada Yeah "single-otns" are really dangerous things to make ;)
 
11:04 AM
LOOK OVER HERE, TITS
Desperate attempt to change topic
 
lol
 
LOOK OVER HERE: TITS
Or should it be a semicolon?
 
Aw fuck, I take everything back, I just went back in the chat logs and I was the one who started calling that usage “singleton”. I misinterpreted what @thecoshman said back there …
 
The meaning is different
 
dunno
I'm just waiting for Tony to show up
 
11:06 AM
25 mins ago, by sehe
26 mins ago, by sehe
26 mins ago, by sehe
45 mins ago, by sehe
I'd say, the greatest threat posed by Singleton is the potential to derail any conversation between developers and waste all creative energy.
 
one minute early!
 
O damn. I'm early. I lunched too short
 
2 hours ago, by Konrad Rudolph
@thecoshman Bullshit, it just knows how it is instantiated. Big difference
 
pwwwwwwned
 
@DeadMG That's so immature!
 
11:07 AM
@FredOverflow So's calling your mum a whore, but that doesn't make doing it less fun
(and true)
 
mmm. desperately seeking the lines of the admissable again
 
hey, I've made jokes like that a million times in this chat and only been banned for it once
that's a pretty good track record
although sometimes I get the feeling that it's mostly the robot who appreciates them
it's like blasphemy
I love blasphemy, it's one of my favourite things to do
 
Well the thing is, you made jokes like that a zillion times, but non-jokes like that ... probably just that one time
 
to get back on topic,
the weather outside is awesome
 
the weather outside is frightening
 
11:11 AM
the fire is so delightning?
 
IT Y U SO HOT.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik DRY
 
My room is 27º.
 
IT?
 
Hey
That's a power of 3
 
11:14 AM
It is also a third power of a natural
 
I find that amazing.
 
It think Fermat would agree
 
Oh by the way!
What was that theorem that says "you can't find all code in ..."
 
The above is a plot for all (n,x) showing there is only one solution where n^x = x^n
 
Confirmed.
 
11:19 AM
Actually, I think the plot is a bit off, but it might be optical illusion. Blame Wolfram alpha
@Cicada Huh?
 
I unfortunately have to leave to attend a course (yeah, surprisingly).
If anyone has an idea of who said that *you can't find all code in (?) by doing static analysis* (or something like that)
I don't know, I remember reading something about why emulators use JIT recompilation instead of static recompilation
Seemed related to the halting problem or something
Very vague, I know.
Will be back in 4 days. Good afternoon!
 
@Cicada Whoa. 4 days. Hefty coarse. I wonder what you'll learn. See ya
 
11:35 AM
I thought emulators used JIT because of machine specific optimisations and the massive lag whilst you apply them if you did it all upfront
 
my thought too. I don't know what else she might be thinking of, though
 
I guess you can profile and do branch prediction and update the output as you go too
 
@awoodland That's common practice in hotspot JVM, I believe .NET JITs have been doing that too (citation needed)
@DeadMG Ok, so @Jeremy triggered it, but you detonated monetized started it
 
You may now boycott Visual Studios 11 officially.
And probably Windows 8.
 
11:51 AM
not sure I'm going to be upgrading to W8 anyway
 
> Charging developers for Visual Studio is, in effect, making developers pay money for the privilege of making Windows worth buying
 
I want to freely develop my software on Windows 8, anytime, anywhere. I think there's a reason to why Steve Ballmer was named the worst CEO of some time (all time?)
 
@tom_mai78101 One word: mingw
 
I couldn't ignore that. I no longer have any other options to override myself to not ignore that.
 

« first day (587 days earlier)      last day (4360 days later) »