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7:00 PM
hmm, module support? Which proposal do they implement? From what Bjarne said in lang.next, there are umpteen different ones …
 
Actual materialised proposals?
I think there's only Vandevoorde's.
But there's people wanting different things.
 
That's Vandevoorde's.
Old revision, there's a rev6 from the latest meeting.
 
If there are any other proposals, either they weren't touched in a long time, or they are new and will only show up in the next mailing.
 
7:05 PM
man, I do not envy the committee
 
But yeah, Bjarne did say there's lots of people wanting different things. They do need to step forward though.
 
I just want Python-like modules
or something similar
 
What does that mean? I'm not very fluent in Python.
 
but it’s not going to be that easy :p
Python modules just work & don’t get in the way ;)
Essentially, each file or directory with an __init__.py file is its own module that can be imported with the import syntax
 
I like the existing proposal. It tackles the issues with headers nicely, which is what I want the most. Others want DLL-ish features, or reflection, but I'm not that interested in that.
 
7:08 PM
each module is its own namespace; modules can be nested
 
__init__.py is for packages.
 
packages, you are right, Cat
 
Of course I'm right, I have gold badger.
 
Har har: one heroic feat of touchscreen dexterity:
 
7:08 PM
0
A: what's wrong with the program?

sehe(i'm writing this on my phone. I will add a full working sample later tonight) I can see two things amiss here Adapting the struct In order to assign to your datatype as an rule attribute, you need to make it fusion compatible. The most convenient way: BOOST_FUSION_ADAPT_STRUCT(db_select, ...

 
@Cat I have to say though, packages in my understanding have almost no meaningful distinction to modules. That is to say, they could have just used one concept instead of two …
 
Packages are collections of modules.
 
If "packages" and "modules" are "hierarchical things", then "packages" are "non-leaf hierarchical things" and "modules" are "leaf hierarchical things"?
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes. Why not just nest modules? Java-like?
 
7:10 PM
@KonradRudolph Java has packages, not modules!
Gotta love how we programmers abuse terms. ;)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes But in Java everything is a package, there is no distinction
*that*’s my point, not pesky details about what they named it
 
Actually, now there is.
 
Because Python is not Java.
 
They have superpackages.
 
oh my
 
7:11 PM
Or some other name, maybe they settled on something else, but superpackage was a working name.
 
Module is an object, package is not.
 
@CatPlusPlus I’m aware of the fact that there are differences. I assert that the difference is unnecessary and only introduces impedance
as in, why introduce two concepts when one would suffice?
 
I don't know. Ask on python-dev.
Point is, there are two concepts and they are not the same.
 
If I have a class that stores some of its state on disk, and I have a member function that modifies the state on disk but not the state in memory, should I mark that member function as const?
 
7:14 PM
Depends: is it logically const?
 
@classdaknok_t depends on the concepts involved in the class
 
const should denote logical, not physical const-ness. Compare: mutable.
 
@classdaknok_t const should depend less on what it does and more on what the user would expect to be able to do on a const object
 
The class represents a directory with a specific structure, and you can modify that directory through the member functions in the class.
 
That doesn’t sound const
I’d expect a const instance of a directory to be an unmodifiable view into the directory
 
7:16 PM
silo const& = get_silo();
s.launch_missile(); // should not be allowed
 
The only data member of the class is a boost::filesystem::path, though.
@KonradRudolph I thought that too.
 
interesting question, btw :)
 
Here is the class in question.
class Repository {
public:
  Repository(const boost::filesystem::path& path);
  void commit(Commit cmmt); // to const or not to const?
private:
  boost::filesystem::path path_;
};
 
Okay, thanks. :)
 
7:23 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes you think so? I would expect committing a repository to edit the repository, I wouldn't expect to be able to commit to a const repository.
 
@MooingDuck and thus no const. :)
 
@classdaknok_t oh, I misread. For some reason I though R.Martinho said const. I'll go back to what I was doing then.
 
Seriously, thinking I was wrong?
:P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I should know better. But didn't I catch you once this morning?
 
7:25 PM
I think so, yeah.
 
I'll post a question on Stack Overflow, might help others in the future.
If it's not already there.
5
Q: Should member functions be "const" if they affect logical state, but not bitwise state?

Oli CharlesworthI'm writing a class that wraps a legacy C API that controls a hardware device. In a simplified example, I might have something like: class device { public: void set_request(int data) { legacy_set_req(p_device, data); } int get_response() const { return legacy_get_rsp(p_device); } priv...

Already there.
 
sbi
 
@sbi I'd heard it as: In heaven you have a German car, an Italian lover, a French cook, and a British butler. In hell you have a French car, a German lover, a British cook, and an Italian butler.
 
I prefer the British cuisine over the French cuisine.
 
@classdaknok_t Everyone hates the French :P
 
7:33 PM
The only ones worse than French are French from Canada.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Do they eat snails and frogs?
 
@classdaknok_t Actual British cuisine, or Indian cuisine as prepared by Brits? I'll grant they make good Indian food, but actual British food? Somehow reminds me of a time years ago when somebody told me a local restaurant had opened with "great, authentic Irish food!" I had to ask: "So which is it, authentic, or great?"
 
What's British cuisine? Fish and chips?
3
 
@JerryCoffin bacon, eggs, beans, fish & chips.
I love those.
 
Ew, fish.
 
7:36 PM
A cat which doesn't like fish?!
3
 
bangers and mash :)
 
toad in the hole
 
@classdaknok_t To each his own, I guess.
 
so
 
It's yellow and you can stand on it. What am I looking for?
 
7:38 PM
I'll take French any day (though it's much easier to find good French food in Belgium than in France). The best you can find in France is probably better, but there's also some pretty sorry French food in France. All I've had in Belgium was at least pretty good.
 
what are the requirements, exactly, for the type parameter of std::set?
 
@DeadMG In C++03, or 11?
 
@classdaknok_t Yellow carpet.
 
@JerryCoffin 11
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Wrong.
 
7:39 PM
Meets the requirements.
 
I wasn't looking for a yellow carpet.
 
a yellow brick carpet
 
Shall I just give the answer?
 
How do I scroll in screen?
 
7:40 PM
a yellow brick submarine?
 
I can't copy things from KeePass into Chrome. :<
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't have a problem.
using Mono?
 
Yes, under Linux.
 
there's a bug in the newest version that can cause problems with KeePass
 
I can copy it to URL bar, but not to the forms on a page.
 
7:41 PM
you need to DL a new version (of KeePass)
 
Works here.
 
Well for those who are still interested, here is the answer:
 
Oh, except not Chrome.
 
@CatPlusPlus use Internet Explorer.
 
Auto-Type?
 
7:44 PM
I don't trust AT.
Now, how to upgrade a package to a version not in a repo with the stupid dpkg.
 
Mmmh I think dpkg -i just goes with what you give it and go on and install it.
Well, if you have deps then good luck.
 
@DeadMG Comparable (a<b is valid, produces strict, weak ordering), Destructible, (emplace_constructible | copy_constructible | move_constructible). Seems like there should be one more requirement, but cant' t think of what it would be right now.
 
@JerryCoffin Equality comparable?
 
Not for set, no.
 
really? how else do you determine if a value is in a set?
 
7:47 PM
@DeadMG Don't think so, no. It deduces equalty if ((!a<b) && (!b<a))
 
I mean, binary search can guide you...
 
sbi
@classdaknok_t I prefer French cousins over British cuisine any day.
 
@DeadMG SWO is required precisely for this.
 
hmmm, fuck
now I'm not entirely sure at all if my comparator does impose a SWO
 
7:48 PM
lol
 
yes. yes, it does
 
GCC Y U ICE BUILDING CLANG?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ICE?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "ICE: Disloyalty to RMS's insane political views detected."
 
Internal Compiler Error.
 
7:51 PM
Oops. Of course I meant: "warped, diseased view of the universe detected."
 
WARNING TAINTED KERNEL
 
Nope, newer KeePass doesn't work either.
And no upgrades for Mono without upgrading entire thing.
Gawd.
 
the newer keepass or the keepass with the mono workaround?
 
Wait, is this a keepass problem or a Chrome problem?
I mean, if you can paste on the address bar...
 
0
Q: SFINAE - Trying to determine if template type has member function with 'variable' return type

Michael GHaving trouble with SFINAE. I need to be able to determine if a Type has a member function operator-> defined regardless of its return type. Example follows. This class in the tester. It defines operator->() with a return type of X*. I thus will not know what 'X' is to hardcode it everywhe...

Why do people insist on looking for the member functions specifically?
 
No 2.18 works.
And KeePassX doesn't support kdbx.
Gawd.
 
8:14 PM
Hey guys, having this problem: stackoverflow.com/questions/10329147/…
I'm wondering what setting the has algorithm to sha1 is doing and how I can do the same with pycrypto
 
sbi
> Perthshire village of "Dull" attempts to twin with Oregon town of "Boring". Dull and Boring residents excited bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-17825138twitter.com/#!/qikipedia/status/195096588945866752
 
Is there ANY reason whatsoever to use std::vector<T> instead of T myArr[]; if I'm sure that myArr will always be storing only 3 objects ?
 
-5
Q: Is operator "reuse" a language flaw

SaurabhComing from a C background, I always found it tough to follow C++ code whenever it used reference operator. The simple reason was the operator used to determine whether the declaration is a reference was same as address of operator. Even though the two operators are closely related, there is no...

 
> Error: unrecognized symbol type ""
 
C people attack !
 
8:25 PM
@ScarletAmaranth std::array<T, 3> myArr; so not vector
 
sbi
@ScarletAmaranth std::array
 
god
you honestly use std::array :) ?
well
thanks ;)
 
Raw arrays decay to pointer, which is bad.
 
Well, it's 3 objects, statically allocated, all the time.
Thanks, ill use std::array ;)
 
I'm rewriting my Brainfuck compiler to Haskell!
Yes, bored much.
 
8:27 PM
compiler ?
 
Yes, compiler. Thing that compiles.
Other things.
 
Just how bored are you exactly :) ?
 
2.31 silly.
 
It would be more impressive to write a Haskell compiler in Brainfuck
 
I'm bored, not masochistic.
 
8:29 PM
@CatPlusPlus Is it a compiler or interpreter?
 
Compiler.
 
What's the backend?
 
FASM.
 
Use LLVM.
The bindings are the awesomez.
Generating code with LLVM from Haskell is easier than from C++!
 
I imagine there's less pointers involved.
 
8:32 PM
And do-notation fits their SSA assembly almost perfectly.
 
Why not generate Haskell code and compile that?
 
And recursive do-notation fits it perfectly, if you can grok it.
 
Brainfuck is not functional, it wouldn't be that straightforward.
 
@CatPlusPlus Write a br*anfuck interpreter in Haskell, and to compile to Haskell you just append source = "blahblah" to that :P
 
8:34 PM
[brainfuck|...]
Compile-time brainfucking!
 
Wait, what?
 
That shit is bananas. Well, not quite.
 
You can embed DSLs with TH quasiquoters.
It's really bananas.
 
Are they? I didn't even know D:
 
But [brainfuck| ...] doesn't look like a quasiquote to me.
Looks like a plain old list comprehension.
 
8:37 PM
[brainfuck|+++>+>+<+_+_+-s=d-fwhatever|]
 
Ah, you missed the closing |.
 
Yeah.
 
Anyway, any respectable language has an IDE of sorts.
 
> Since version 1.4.0, BFdev supports the pbrain (procedural brainfuck)
 
Soap, if i have std::array<T, 3U>, can i initialize it with std::array<const T, 3U> ?
 
8:41 PM
No. You can use std::copy, but that means you incur the costs of default construction before assigning.
 
Use std::array<T, N> const instead.
 
@ScarletAmaranth don't put const types in containers
 
@ScarletAmaranth std::array<T, 3U> myarray = {{7, 3, -30}};
 
Yup, thanks.
 
8:44 PM
They should add some magicks to allow std::array<T, > myarray = {{7, 3, -30}};
 
Magicks are bad :(
 
People having a justified reason to hang to T[N] instead of std::array is bad too!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Can't you auto it?
auto myarray = {...}?
 
No.
That's an initializer_list
How would the compiler guess you want an array from that and not, say, a vector?
 
how would the left side know if you wanted a vector or an array?
 
8:48 PM
auto myarray = {...} is an init list? Not a C array?
 
how does the compiler know I don't want a float from auto x = 5;?
 
Because 5 is not all that floaty.
 
@DeadMG Because 5 is an int.
 
right
 
What's happening?
 
8:49 PM
Shit.
 
so what's wrong with making { 1,2,3 } a std::array<int, 3>
 
Because sometimes you want it to be a std::array<int, 4>!
 
@DeadMG I can't think of important downsides of the top of my head
 
@RMartinhoFernandes std::array<int, 4> x = { 1,2,3 };?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes make arrays initializable from a smaller array, problem solved.
 
8:51 PM
@MooingDuck But then std::array is no longer an aggregate.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Fuck aggregates, just cut them from the Standard.
 
lol
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't recall "aggregate". What was that again?
 
besides, you don't need std::array to be an aggregate, since you can construct std::array from an initializer list anyway
 
It's supposed to be a replacement for T[N]. Going around discarding properties doesn't help that goal.
47
Q: What are Aggregates and PODs and how/why are they special?

Armen TsirunyanThis FAQ is about Aggregates and PODs and covers the following material: What are Aggregates? What are PODs (Plain Old Data)? How are they related? How and why are they special? What changes for C++11?

 
8:52 PM
maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't actually know any useful properties of aggregates at all, except the braced init thing
 
I still can't quite figure what's all that evil about T[N] decaying to a pointer (except for the fact that it has no clue about it's size).
 
which I just implemented (hypothetically) anyway
 
@ScarletAmaranth The fact it forgets the size is the evil.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Nothing really, though implicit conversions should generally be frowned upon.
 
so I don't see the value in having std::array<T, N> being an aggregate.
 
8:54 PM
mhm
 
@DeadMG As opposed to its being what else? Being an aggregate affects things like static vs. dynamic initialization, which can mean a lot, but other times means nothing at all.
 
@JerryCoffin It can be a regular class just fine.
and I have already posited advantages of this
 

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