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Xeo
3:00 PM
3
Q: C++11; Can non-static data member initializations access other data members?

Bret KuhnsI really like the idea of properties in C#, and as a little side project, I've been tinkering with the idea of implementing them in C++. I ran into this example http://stackoverflow.com/a/5924594/245869 which seems fairly nice, but I couldn't help but think that lambdas and non-static data member...

The idea here will never work, then.
 
You must capture this, right?
When accessing a non-static class member, you implicitly access it using this->.
 
Xeo
But you can't capture unless you have block scope
Oooh, wait. The initializer for the non-static data member may count as block scope...
 
@classdaknok_t That wouldn't result in error 500, which is most like 'Invalid PORT command'
 
Oh wait I misread the question. I'm confused.
 
@thecoshman can you just 'put file.zip' and forget about stupid directory listings no one needs?
 
3:03 PM
Command: put RCP.zip
Response: 500 PUT not understood
for some reason, it seems filezilla likes to capitalize commands :S
 
are std::function<void(int)> and std::function<void(int, int)> of different type?
 
Xeo
yes
 
@thecoshman let me see whether I can further simply the config. Will be offline momentarily
 
@sehe sure
 
FTP sucks.
I hope I'll never have to use it anymore.
 
user1174868
3:06 PM
man
 
user1174868
fuck college
 
@classdaknok_t what you got against ftp?
 
@Xeo hmm, how can I then make something like this work without an explicit cast or such ideone.com/Qe09C
 
Xeo
20
A: Isn't the template argument (the signature) of std::function part of its type?

XeoThe problem is that both function<int()> and function<int(int)> are constructible from the same function. This is what the constructor declaration of std::function looks like in VS2010: template<class _Fx> function(_Fx _Func, typename _Not_integral<!_Is_integral<_Fx>::...

 
@thecoshman restarted, now disabled IPV6 and TLS
 
3:08 PM
@thecoshman it's insecure, never works well, directory listing format isn't defined, all sorts of thingsā€¦
 
Xeo
As soon as you asked the first question I could see the next one coming :)
 
@classdaknok_t It does.
 
@sehe nah, still failing with the same problem
 
@bamboon Don't take std::function as argument.
 
oh, what dir should I cd to?
 
3:10 PM
@Xeo ^^
 
I should take the time to write that on the tips and tricks.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes instead do what?
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes I seriously wonder why that's not listed in the solutions in my answer
@bamboon template
 
@nightcracker: TBH, I know no other way to criticize C++, but I nevertheless hate the way you do it. — sbi Jan 17 at 14:27
^^ classy
 
std::function<R(A...)> doesn't give you any extra type checking, so there's no loss in just using some typename Fun.
 
3:12 PM
@thecoshman i didn't explicitely. You are chrooted to a private dir so / would be most logical for you
 
@Xeo yeah normally I would do that, but the problem here is that the two functions have to do different things depending on the lambda which is passed
 
@sehe hmm... ok then
 
Of course, in this case it means you need some SFINAE to select the proper overload.
 
trying to find out why filezilla can't send commands
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes And now I know why I didn't include templates in the solution again
 
3:13 PM
@thecoshman yup cd / worked. Could be that you find two files already there - since I just transferred another
I need to get home, anyways, so I'll leave you hanging in the bind. Perhaps your other (slow) upload was done? May I recommend USB sticks?
 
@Xeo TIL: don't take std::function parameters.
 
@sehe it's still working away. Don't have any on me. last chance today. should have sorted it out sooner
 
@bamboon I'd write it as ideone.com/SkP3B
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ok, then this is the time to dive into that SFINAE template black magic, don't know if I am ready for that yet
 
Xeo
Oh yeah, another misconception of @bamboon might be that a lambda has std::function type.
 
3:16 PM
@thecoshman are you behind a proxy?
 
@sehe probably, at a hotel :(
 
@Xeo nah I know that, and actually I am aware that taking std::function parameters is bad, I just didn't know how to help my self otherwise^^
 
@thecoshman aha. that explainz0rs (see also stackoverflow.com/questions/9165594/…)
@thecoshman You're at a hotel, yet you're not on your own PC, and you downloaded 600mb?
ah well. Shall I shut the ftp down? I'll probably shut it down if I don't see any (successful) activity (uploads/-ed files) byt 19:30CEST
 
@sehe on a course, using a pc they gave us. want to upload the docs
yeah, close it down :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes looks good, I all I have to do now, is to understand that enable_if and traits stuff
 
3:19 PM
@thecoshman That leaves you ~2hrs to get filezilla to reason (or IE, or FF, or SmartFTP, or tftp.exe or....)
 
thanks @Xeo @RMartinhoFernandes
 
@sehe ah don't worry about it :(
 
@bamboon All that SFINAE cruft gets me on the wrong foot frequently. Dunno why.
Bye for now
 
@sehe What cruft? There's only = _ as cruft!
 
even the concept of sfinae is cruft
 
3:23 PM
let's not get started on the concept of cruft
 
also
 
I have decided that in Wide I will not have static member functions
or variables
 
3:24 PM
any of you guys get a message from FB on SO Careers, saying they might be interested in you?
 
@TonyTheLion I think someone here did.
 
Not FB but another company. They probably didn't see the age on my profile. :/
 
well, I just got one from FB
 
@TonyTheLion @KonradRudolph got one
 
@TonyTheLion Are you considering it?
 
3:26 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I'll talk to him
why not
 
Oh, yeah, Konrad was asking how to decline politely.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not ā€œhowā€, but rather whether
I ended up sending him a short message
 
@TonyTheLion Because Facebook is the evulz.
 
And full of dumb people.
 
@TonyTheLion Ah, I got an email like that
Also one from Google
 
3:28 PM
hi can someone please help
i'm a beginner programmer that downloaded mac osx lion
 
currently running on ruby 1.9.2 and rails 3.2.3
and i'm trying to get postgressql to work
with aptana
studio 3 but it's not working
 
Did you notice this is the C++ room?
 
i type in
rake db: migrate
sorry was hoping... someone woudl be able to help..
 
What does 'not working' mean?
 
3:31 PM
any hoops. I'm heading off
 
Meh Ruby on Rails.
Meh RDBMSes.
 
see y'all
 
(I don't know the answer as I've not used any of those technologies. I do however know how to ask a question.)
 
rake aborted!
no such file to load -- pg_ext

(See full trace by running task with --trace)
 
Install the PostgreSQL gem?
 
3:32 PM
i) google what pg_ext is
ii) have you done --trace like it says?
 
yes
bash: --trace: command not found
 
Aaaaa, it's RUBY AGAIN, RUN for your lives.
 
rake db:migrate --trace
 
@classdaknok_t how do you know that?
have you worked for them?
 
bash: $: command not found
 
3:34 PM
Alexandrescu works for them.
I wouldn't call him dumb.
 
@TonyTheLion I mean the users. :P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes well, I need to find a permanent job, so I'm not gonna decline
 
i'm a beginner programmer...
 
@Bryan Oh, don't type the $. Sorry, about that.
 
@TonyTheLion yeah, always worth checking out
 
3:35 PM
@classdaknok_t all users are dumb
 
@TonyTheLion amen to that
 
Yep, always assume your users are complete morons. They are.
 
rake aborted!
no such file to load -- pg_ext
/Users/annietung/Documents/Aptana Studio 3 Workspace/gto/path/ruby/1.9.1/gems/activesupport-3.1.3/lib/active_support/dependencies.rb:240:in `require'
/Users/annietung/Documents/Aptana Studio 3 Workspace/gto/path/ruby/1.9.1/gems/activesupport-3.1.3/lib/active_support/dependencies.rb:240:in `block in require'
/Users/annietung/Documents/Aptana Studio 3 Workspace/gto/path/ruby/1.9.1/gems/activesupport-3.1.3/lib/active_support/dependencies.rb:223:in `block in load_dep
 
@TonyTheLion Oh that was a joke btw (I thought the TVTropes link would give it away).
 
3:36 PM
ah, here's the other job ad: linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=2930409
 
@Bryan Give up on Ruby, it's not like it works anyway :P
 
@Bryan Really, you won't get much help about Ruby here.
It's not that people don't want to help, it's just that people can't.
 
the ruby forums is so quiet
sigh...
 
@Bryan tried stackoverflow?...
 
my app is built on ruby on rails. programmer is on windows i'm on mac. Yes... but noone responded
 
3:37 PM
There is an opportunity here guys - I know nothing about Ruby and I'm trying to find an answer for Bryan by googling
 
@Bryan got a link to the question?
 
thank you so much Tom W
1
Q: rake db migrate is not generating database tables.

BryanI've downloaded Mac OS X lion, Updated Xcode to 4.1, Currently have Ruby 1.9.2 and rails 3.1.8. Currenlty using Aptana 3.0 and i'm trying to do rake db migrate but it's not generating database tables... Can someone please help... rake aborted! no such file to load -- sqlite3/sqlite3_native (Se...

 
pg is PostGres
gem install pg
 
@Bryan I stopped reading after you said your app was built in ruby on rails :P
 
Don't be nice to me - I'm chewing you out for failing to google
4
 
3:39 PM
Successfully installed pg-0.13.2
1 gem installed
Installing ri documentation for pg-0.13.2...
Installing RDoc documentation for pg-0.13.2...
but it stops there
 
It's for the best, Bryan.
 
why do you guys hate Ruby on Rails so much..
 
@Bryan installing the documentation always takes some time.
@Bryan because it sucks.
 
@Bryan we don't. We just don't know it
 
@Bryan We don't know Ruby on Rails.
 
3:40 PM
but it's meant to speed up deployment of app and also it's a web framework
oh
 
This is the C++ room. We know C++.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hey, I do!
 
but i heard that ruby is a simple langauge. How com eyou guys stick with C++?
 
right, so pg was absent
 
@Bryan Simple usually means "worthless".
 
3:40 PM
does rake migrate whatever work now?
 
@classdaknok_t Well, if you want to help then, can you do so on the Ruby room?
 
@Bryan it's so simple that you can't figure out how to get it installed ;)
 
programming is hard. If anyone tells you it isn't, then they're just lying to you.
 
no rake db: migrate still doesn't work
 
Stop it right now, geeks.
 
3:41 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes if you want to help then. You said that right!
 
if Ruby gets someone's work done, it is a Good Thing.
 
plus, I doubt that Ruby is simple.
 
@Bryan because simplicity isn't all that matters. Say you have an application that's already written in C++. Rewriting it in Ruby would be a ton of work, for no real benefit. Or say you have high performance requirements. Ruby is slow. C++ is fast. Different applications, different scenarios, have different requirements
 
Ruby is simple and I prefer it for writing web apps, but I don't want a framework to take over everything and force me to follow any conventions, and therefore I don't use Ruby on Rails.
 
@Bryan Coming into the C++ room to bash C++ and advertise Ruby is like going to France to bash French and advertise English. Know your surroundings.
 
3:42 PM
@Bryan Also stop using Ruby.
 
I prefer to work in statically typed languages.
 
Don't stop using Ruby if you like Ruby. Just stop using Ruby on Rails.
It's brainwashing. It looks awesome at first, but when you use it for more than a year you really get sick of it doing all the work for you.
 
@mystical sorry. i don't meant to bash C++. I'm beginner programmer trying to setup postgres. Ruby forum was empty and was hoping C++ forums could help..
 
@classdaknokt After a month, FTFY.
 
3:44 PM
@classdaknok_t And that's when you start monkey patching everything and it collapses?
 
I don't like frameworks which assume things. I want to do things the way I want to do them. If I don't want to use MVC, I don't want to use MVC. Period. Ruby on Rails forces me to use MVC.
 
@Bryan the question you linked to before was about ruby on rails. Now you're asking about configuring postgres. Am I missing something here?
 
i though they are the same thing...
 
@classdaknok_t eh, I know some pretty good developers who've used it for years and like it
 
because i'm using ruby on rails to get postgresql running
 
3:44 PM
You do realize what I said was tongue-in-cheek right? :P
 
but it depends on you needing to do what rails is designed for. It tries to do a lot for you, which is great if your needs are exactly what the rails designers anticipated
 
@jalf exceptions. :P
 
@jalf so the question should be about how to configure postgres with aptana3.1?
not with rails?
 
Though the technologies I usually use for web app development are Ruby, Sinatra, MongoDB and Haml.
 
it seems to me the question should be "how do I install postgres". Getting it to work with rails can come afterwards
once the database works
 
3:46 PM
@classdaknok_t Ooooh, webscale.
 
@jalf i thought i already downloaded postgres though
 
Or you could possibly stop using ruby at all.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Wut?
 
@Bryan but did you install it?
 
@ScarletAmaranth Really, what's that trash talk good for?
 
3:46 PM
@jalf i downloaded from here postgresql.org/download/macosx
 
@Bryan I am not asking if you downloaded it. I am asking if it is installed on your computer
 
i believe yes i did
 
Is it currently possible to create a table in your postgres database?
 
if it is not, then rails won't be able to do it. Then you need to fix your database
 
3:47 PM
i dont' know how to do that
 
Once your database works, you can worry about getting rails to talk to it
@Bryan how do you think other people do it? Hit the postgres website, read the documentation
or ask on the postgres mailing list or IRC channel if that doesn't work. Or google for "postgres tutorial" or something
Finding and learning new information is part of being a programmer :)
 
programming is a lot about feeling in the dark...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm trying to save him from a lot of pain! :)
 
it's very entrepreneurial...
 
@Bryan It's a lot about reading stuff.
 
3:49 PM
@Bryan no, it's a lot about lighting a candle in the dark. Get rid of the darkness so you can see what you're doing
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't care about scaling.
 
you start out not knowing how to do X, then you find out how to do X, and then you do X
@ScarletAmaranth no, you're being a dick
 
@classdaknok_t Oh, I wasn' implying anything about you. I just can't pass a chance to make that joke.
 
Ah :P
 
@jalf Yeah, let's all be overly serious then ;)
 
3:50 PM
Thank you @jalf
 
close votes please
0
Q: external hdd really slow, and get error messages

Duncan William Gibbonsi recently reinstalled windows7, and now my storejet 1.5TB external hdd is much slower, i can view/open nearly all my data except for a few folders. these folders i cannot delete either. can you please tell me what is wrong? virus, dying drive or what? thanks duncan

 
@ScarletAmaranth no, let's just not be trolls. Let's not be blind language fanboys
@Bryan you're welcome. But you'll still have to do some research yourself. If you wnat to use a database, then find out how to get your database working
 
@jalf Yeah it totally looked like i was NOT being sarcastic about that fact, you're right.
 
and not just by asking random strangers on the street "how do I get my database working"
 
user1174868
I have over 100 credits with a 2.8 GPA and it isn't really going to change because I am not smart enough to get As in all my classes, so it won't change, I wonder if it would almost be faster to just start school over
 
3:52 PM
@ScarletAmaranth I don't care what it looked like. There's enough programming language bigotry on the internet already, without encouraging more of it
 
@jalf No thanks, i'll stick to my Trollish personality.
 
good, then you can stick to my ignore list too
 
That was the point I was trying to make
 
if your best contribution when people ask for programming advice is to waste their time, I don't need to see your contribution
 
@jalf Yeah, again, let's all be overly serious.
 
3:54 PM
@ScarletAmaranth you know, there's a difference between "not being serious", and "being an offensive prick"
it is possible to be the former without the latter. You should try it some time
 
@jalf Thats true. I was not being serious and youre an offensive prick right now ;)
 
"Ruby sucks, hur hur, ruby sucks, you should never use ruby" is not funny
it is a complete and utter waste of everyone's time, and it is a spirited attempt at quelling all worthwhile discussion in this room
@ScarletAmaranth NO U!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes lol
 
what are you, four years old?
 
@jalf Ignored you :)
 
3:55 PM
thanks for letting me know
I'm sure we'll all be much happier knowing that you're ignoring the channel while spamming it
 
I noted a weird correlation ā€¦ whenever Iā€™m actually working, the chat just scrolls by at maximum speed. And whenever I have a second to look into it, nobodyā€™s there ā€¦
 
We do that on purpose.
 
"We developers only do cool, new stuff. We don't do bug fixes and documentation."
"ā€” Then who does those?"
"The team who fixes bugs."
 
@jalf i currenlty found someone who has the same problem as me and he fixed it but i don't know how to proceed forums.enterprisedb.com/posts/list/3055.page
@jalf 21st march 21:42
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I wasn't talking about any particular instance of it. I sort of agree with DeadMG analysis: all of SFINAE seems a bit hacky. I'd rather have static_if or typematching if possible
 
4:08 PM
@jalf sorry i meant 14:32
@jalf can you please advise?
 
@Bryan how would I know? :)
 
the only language of which I am a fanboy is the one which I designed myself
 
programming is so hardddddddddd
 
@sehe Did you look at the code? It reads almost like static if.
 
well, at a guess, it looks like there are issues with the installer for osx. So maybe you shouldn't use that, and just install it from source
 
4:10 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah I did just now. Pretty neat. I'm sure I'd still manage to screw it up, especially in the presence of many overloads and ADL
 
or using macports
looks like the have postgres packages
 
@thecoshman you still around? loox like you are not trying to upload stuff (anymore)?
 
@jalf so you recommend installing postgressql at macports?
 
Not really. Like I said, I've never done it, I don't know what works and what doesn't. I'm just suggesting things you could look into
but macports is usually pretty painless. Otherwise, like I said, you could try downloading the source and building it yourself
well, or use a database that's easier to set up
 
i'm also using Heroku
and Herokus is postgres..
 
4:17 PM
well, figure it out then :)
I generally try to stay far away from databases
 
Me too. Databases are a pain in the ass sometimes.
 
@jalf so you're a front end developer?
 
Oh God whyā€¦
user image
2
 
lol
 
Any good reasons why they donā€™t use pull requests for patches?
 
4:25 PM
Unit testing the lead dev's brain?
 
(not a rhetorical question, there might be)
 
@KonradRudolph maybe that's too chaotic. This is a mirror repository.
 
@Bryan not really. I'm a bit all over the place. But there's plenty of backend work that doesn't involve databases :)
at least in our application
 
What are you working on, if I may ask?
 
me?
 
4:32 PM
Yeah, well plural "you" as you said "our application". :)
 
:) Medical imaging. Presenting the results of XRay/MR/CT/whatever scans to radiologists and doctors
stuff like that
is pretty interesting :)
 
Sounds fun!
Requires a lot of computing power I've heard.
Anyway I gotta go. See you guys!
@ScottW DIAF
 
@classdaknok_t some of it, yeah.
 
user1174868
how much does a degree for csci matter, or is what you learned more important?
 
user1174868
because I am thinking of just going to a shitty for profit school just to get the degree
 
Xeo
4:39 PM
@Jordan Err.. what does a degree get you, if you aren't going to get any job done because you know nothing?
 
user1174868
Well won't I learn a little bit in a for profit school?
 
Xeo
And that still doesn't help you getting anything done
 
user1174868
I am not smart enough to get into any good schools but I am not stupid enough to just be happy doing manual labor
 
user1174868
wat do
 
Xeo
Learn in your free time
 
user1174868
4:40 PM
I don't think I am smart enough or motivated enough to do that
 
user1174868
well I am not even smart enough to get into a college :P
 
that depends on the kind of job you're aiming for
 
@Jordan Don't tell that to an employer.
 
user1174868
all the colleges have said my GPA is too bad
 
@Jordan Being able to show off cool stuff you've done is more important than the degree.
 
user1174868
4:45 PM
but if I am not smart enough to get into college how can I make cool stuff that will impress people?
 
user1174868
I think with my mediocrity I need to rely on the college degree to back me up
 
Xeo
You seriously do not believe in yourself, eh?
 
user1174868
I don't know anymore
 
user1174868
no matter how hard I try I can not do well in school
 
user1174868
and people who put in far less effort always do better than me
 
user1174868
4:49 PM
every college I have talked to said I am not good enough to get into their school
 
user1174868
the only schools I can get into a party schools or for profit schools
 
Xeo
Well, maybe csci just isn't for you?
 
in my experience
formal education is a crock of junk
 
user1174868
Than what is for me Xeo?
 
you only do well there if you match their target type
which is fairly orthogonal to whether or not you're smart/capable/etc
 
4:50 PM
@Jordan well, if you won't learn, then you won't achieve either. Either learn, or do something else.
@Jordan also, learning can be done outside of college
 
user1174868
how am I suppose to learn if I can't get into a school? Or if I get into a bad school I will just lern poorly
 
@Jordan online classes, books, internet, friends, us...
 
user1174868
but what good is learning without a degree? If I do not have a degree I will have to have impressive accomplishments to show for it
 
@Jordan Step 1. Download the IDE for a language of your choice. Step 2. Pick up a tutorial. Step 3. Practice for a couple years. Step 4. Make something awesome.
 
@Jordan not really, you just need to have working programs that are vaguely interesting. No need for the program to be impressive.
 
4:51 PM
at least, that's what I'm hoping for
 
@DeadMG Profit.
 
user1174868
Obviously I am not very intelligent to start with, otherwise these schools would be accepting me, so if I am not smart enough to get into the schools than i can't do any of this on my own
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Step 5. ??? Step 6. Profit!
@Jordan That's false.
 
user1174868
but how will I compete with people who have made unimpressive programs and have a degree?
 
formal education in schools is geared to a specific kind of person; if it's not a match, you'll do badly, irrelevant of how intelligent you are
 
4:52 PM
@Jordan The "project" that got me this job was I wrote a program that sorted a billion integers. It wasn't even fast, mine was the slowest in the class.
@Jordan if you have a few working programs, the people with degrees won't be that far ahead of you
 
user1174868
well I get free schooling anyways
 
user1174868
so I mind as well use it
 
@DeadMG: At my school, they figure any crackpot can learn to program. The CS department was focused on teaching us to be program team leaders and wise decision makers.
 
at my school, they're just insane
 
user1174868
how can I tell if a school has a decent program?
 
If it was written in Java then it's probably not decent
 
user1174868
probably the only schools I could get into
 
@Jordan if you enroll, you'll know within the first, oh, say, 3 years
2
 
user1174868
oh great, just enough time to be massively in debt :P
 
4:57 PM
@jalf lol
 
but yeah, it's a bit of a generalization, but @Pubby's rule of thumb is pretty good too. If it's 100% Java, it sucks. If they use other languages too, it might not suck
 
user1174868
so c++ and java is good?
 
well, diversity is good
if they teach some functional programming, that's good
if they stick within the C/Java family, that's suspicious (but not quite as bad as if they stick with Java alone)
 

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