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6:00 PM
NoSQL databases.
 
I could have two standalone machines for 2$/day.
 
user142019
@RMartinhoFernandes MongoDB ftw.
 
I honestly don't know why people use EC2. Everywhere I've seen there's only trouble with it.
 
@WTP FWIW, I was being sarcastic.
There's no such thing as "webscale".
 
user142019
@RMartinhoFernandes I wasn't.
 
6:01 PM
MongoDB fails at being a database.
Like MySQL.
 
MongoDB doesn't do ACID either?
Awesome.
 
user142019
 
user142019
@RMartinhoFernandes you're right
 
It's an approach similar to @DeadMG's VCS usage. Commit once a week and one day complain all your data is suddenly gone.
 
6:03 PM
lol
 
user142019
lol
 
if the local repository had died, which I thought it had, it wouldn't have mattered how often I committed, only how often I pushed
doesn't Windows Azure do website hosting?
 
I don't think Azure is what you want.
 
why not?
as far as I know, they charge basically nothing if you use basically no resources
 
I dunno, it sounds like overkill for hosting mostly static pages. But I don't know about prices.
 
6:12 PM
well, I reckon that a system designed to scale for price is gonna work just as well scaling down as scaling up
 
Well, check it. Btw, they also support PHP.
 
I doubt that they don't offer ASP.NET
and I am currently checking it
 
Yes, but if you want PHP you can have it.
I honestly don't understand why.
 
heh
unlikely :P
 
for this question stackoverflow.com/questions/8731482/… I cannot recall the term for a class that acts like a integer bound between two values (to prevent under/overflow)
 
6:17 PM
there's a term for it?
 
and of course after looking for 20 minutes, I recall right as I ask you lot. A clamped integer
 
Today's learning exercise: logic! At least that thing is somewhat useful.
 
it is?
 
What's logic useful for? If you don't know logic you can win arguments much easier.
 
lol
that's a logical argument, you traitor!
 
6:21 PM
 
Ell
hi guys
 
Also the solution to barber paradox — barber is bald.
I'm already bored.
 
Ell
what time is it in the USA?
 
More than one.
 
Ell
6:27 PM
25 past one in the afternoon
interestin
 
The US span five timezones, I think.
 
Ell
*interesting
 
More interesting than math, I'll give you that.
 
Ell
i dont think so :P
 
Logic is math.
 
Ell
6:28 PM
does anyone here have a CS degree?
 
Isn't it other way around?
 
@Ell Does 95% of one count?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes six. Four for the contiguous, one for Alaska, one for Hawaii.
 
Ell
yes :)
but out of interest where is the other 5%?
 
@Ell I have a CS degree
 
6:29 PM
In the bin.
 
@Ell In the future.
It's not complete yet.
 
Ell
ahh okay
 
He cut a name of someone else out of one.
 
CatPlusPlus++
 
oooh
apparently Azure thinks that I could use C++
 
Ell
6:30 PM
can anyone in the uk reccommend A-levels for me? (do they have these in the USA or is it a bacholoreat or something?)
 
Hmm, wait, it's actually 90%.
Damn.
 
Isn't Azure a generic computing platform like EC2?
 
Ell
baccalaureate *
 
@Ell Don't pick stuff like "Media Studies"
 
@Ell That sounds like a vegetable.
 
6:31 PM
universities want to see maths, physics, law, etc
 
Ell
Im thinking of taking Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry
but darn, thats a heck of a lot of maths
basically maths * 3 + chemistry
 
Don't forget Furthest Maths.
Chemistry has a lot of math, too.
 
meh
I found Chemistry to be ineffably fucking boring
 
Ell
okay so 3.5 * maths
+chemistry * 0.5
 
we did polymers about five times, and I quit after my AS level
 
Ell
6:32 PM
:D
 
Ell
haha i was thinkging of this :P
 
I did both Maths and Physics A levels
 
Ell
@DeadMG what a-levels did you take?
 
I found them pretty easy, really
the Physics A-level did get into a little quantum mechanics at the end, but only a tiny bit, I was so disappointed
 
Ell
6:33 PM
I dont know if I will be able to cope with all of the maths :/
 
I found every class in high school to be boring. It didn't really change.
 
Ell
at gcse level, of the 3 exams, I have one high A* and one low
A
 
the three what exams?
 
Ell
in my maths exams, for gcse
 
@DeadMG But now you're catching up!
 
6:34 PM
I only remember taking one
@RMartinhoFernandes indeed :P
 
Ell
a lot has changed I imagine
 
yes
they're even easier now than before
 
Have your tried firing a cat through a double-slit to see if it interferes with itself?
3
 
Ell
@DeadMG not to be rude, how old are you?
and I would disagree to that
 
I think, but I can't remember, that they nerfed the Maths A-level
took out C4
although if you did Further Maths, you'd probably still have to do C4 and others
21
 
6:35 PM
@DeadMG That seems to be happening everywhere then.
They did the same here.
 
Ell
my brother is doing a level maths and he is still doing C4
 
Now you sound like terrorists.
 
maybe they didn't nerf it then
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus lols
 
but the others were piddly
C1 was just GCSE again
 
Ell
6:36 PM
@DeadMG what maths gcse grade did you achieve?
 
A
 
Ell
yeah my brother said that about C1
and did you take further maths?
 
no
 
Ell
okay
 
I basically aced almost all of my education, until I realized that I wanted to program instead, at which point I failed everything
 
6:37 PM
lol
 
because I could no longer see the point in doing it
 
I still find it bizarre how different education is around the world, not in cirriculum, but in concepts of advancement. I never heard of an "A Level" before.
 
my A level maths record is AAAADD or something like that
 
Ell
I have aced everything up until now, when I completely failed
 
and my Physics and Law results were the same
 
Ell
6:38 PM
my gf broke up with me the same month of my exams - that was bad timing
 
@MooingDuck Same, I was just wondering wtf they were. Wikipedia to the rescue.
 
Ell
im guessing DD is when you wanted to programme?
 
@MooingDuck They're "Advanced" levels- as opposed to "Ordinary" levels, I think
 
@DeadMG You had Law classes?
 
yes#
@Ell yeah
 
6:38 PM
@Ell DD is big boobs.
 
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes was just thinking
 
well, the thing is, you have to apply for university whilst you're doing your AS courses
 
@DeadMG Wow, that must have been boring as hell.
 
so you have to think about what you want to do
 
@DeadMG so, like American AP classes?
 
Ell
6:40 PM
AP classes? o.O
 
@MooingDuck I think the idea is something closer to ACT / SAT, except with different tests for each subject
 
And suddenly it's like everyone is talking a different language.
 
@Ell "Advanced Placement" High school classes at a harder level, which give 2-5 grade points instead of 1-4.
@RMartinhoFernandes we basically are
@robjb oh, I guess that makes sense too
 
Eclipse is a piece of shit.
 
Ell
@Maxpm it rocks!
 
6:41 PM
No shit Sherlock.
 
@Ell Are you being serious?
 
@Ell Yes, it rocks, but only tomorrow, when it finishes loading.
 
Ell
@MooingDuck grade points? do you know what UCAS points are?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Law was't actually that bad, I enjoyed it
 
@Ell In America, grades seem to be turning into points instead. F->0, D->1, A->4. So if you get AAAAFF, that's 16 grade points, with a 2.6 "Grade Point Average". The GPA is important for getting job's colleges. For AP classes, you get an extra point, unless you fail. So 4.0 is a perfect A student normally, but a perfect AP student could get 5.0 theoretically.
 
Ell
6:42 PM
@Maxpm yep :D compared to Code::Blocks anyway
 
@Ell Nobody takes UCAS points.
 
Ell
@DeadMG are you sure about that?
 
well, they certainly didn't before, and I'm pretty sure they do even less now
 
All IDEs suck, except for the WideC one.
 
6:43 PM
@Ell It's a bloated, buggy hunk of garbage. I can't move a file without it barfing up exceptions and breaking down.
 
@CatPlusPlus It can't suck if it doesn't exist!
 
It can't suck if it has buttons.
 
"Bloated"! There's that word again.
 
The configuration windows are a nightmare to navigate.
 
Ell
@DeadMG surely it would have grown usage
 
6:44 PM
Configuration windows always are a nightmare to navigate.
In every damn app. Especially IDEs.
 
That's the whole point, isn't it?
 
@CatPlusPlus Sure, but even syntax coloring is spread throughout like three pages.
 
@Ell er, I described Grade points, apperently as an edit to my last post. Sorry about that
 
anyway
 
Ell
@MooingDuck thank you :)
 
6:45 PM
in my experience the whole university system was designed by a guy who had no idea what the fuck he was doing
 
Ell
and all universities grade with GPA don't they?
 
@Ell pretty much yeah
 
you have to apply before you've even taken a fucking exam for most courses on your GCSE grades
and then the courses are mostly a pile of shit
 
@Ell so do high schools
 
ECTS is fun.
 
6:46 PM
and most of the applicants come from private schools and have a way better chance than you of getting in
 
@DeadMG I read somewhere the guilty one was actually a woman and was named something Tatcher, former UK prime minister.
 
Ell
@DeadMG I realllyyyy failed my GCSE mocks so now I have to write E on my sixth form application even though I havent done it :O
 
and when you finally decide what to apply for, you realize exactly how much of everyone's time and money has been wasted teaching you Henry the 8ths fucking wives or someshit like that
@Ell I failed mine quite badly too :P
a flying fuck was not given about them
 
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes you mean Thatcher?
brb
 
Maybe that.
You British should know her.
 
6:47 PM
I don't think there have ever been any other woman prime ministers
and I find it impeccably unlikely that we had both a Thatcher and a "something Tatcher" who was not Thatcher
 
Ell
yes, the greatest primister of all time
 
> Consequences of Thatcher revolution include: emphasis on credentialism — if you don't have a job for life, you need proof (on paper) of skills that were formerly acquired in the workplace — combined with deprecation of apprenticeship system (where's the incentive to provide a 5 year apprenticeship for a trainee if they then turn round and go find a job elsewhere?). Demand for pieces of paper as proof of fitness for employment goes through the roof.
 
That's a word?
 
if she designed this system then she was a fucking moron and no doubt about it
 
Ell
6:50 PM
well shes a Tory
 
Whatever that means.
 
Damn you scheduled anti-virus scan, always stealing teh clock cycles from my compiler. :(
 
Ell
thats all it need to be to make me happy - I dont have much of a clue about polotics
 
She does sound like a moron to me (I don't know much about her).
 
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes Tory = Conservative
conservative (only spend money when nessesary and that we have) > labour (spend spend spend! unemloyment benefits for everyone!)
 
6:51 PM
@robjb Why do you schedule it for when you're using it?
 
where can i talk to a moderator ?
 
Ell
labour = we dont have any money - lets spend some anyway. + Tony Blair (USA is amazing I love Bush!)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's regularly scheduled by my workplace, and I have a habit of clicking the "postpone 3 hours button" (which has a max limit of 3 presses.)
 
@drunkMonk They tend to hang around meta chat.
 
thanks :)
 
6:52 PM
@drunkMonk I'd sober up first
 
;)
 
lul
 
Ell
brb
 
6:59 PM
strange. Refresh bug back in place in chat, but the filters are still off.
 
I'm tired.
 
Ell
back
@RMartinhoFernandes go to bed
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh. It's like the StarCraft 2 forums then.
 
Any forums.
You know, one part of Oz I can actually stand is concurrency support. Data-flow variables are cool. If only the rest wasn't so ugly and useless.
 
7:28 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I think a better room name would be "The Whine Cellar".
 
@FredOverflow Oooh.
 
The Champaign room.
Sex not allowed.
 
@CatPlusPlus What kind of logic?
 
p, q and all that stuff.
 
@kfmfe04 What do you mean, "added templates"? D has had templates since like forever.
@CatPlusPlus Also quantors (for all, there exists)?
 
7:33 PM
Probably.
 
@refp Here is something we haven't discussed in a while: Will D eventually take over C++? ;)
Or maybe C++ and D will be merged into D++? ;)
@CatPlusPlus fuzzy logic?
 
Dunno.
 
Ell
all languages are terrible lets write our own solving all problems!
 
@FredOverflow It might.
 
@CatPlusPlus agnostic logic?
 
7:37 PM
so what exactly is it with the internet and cats?
 
@Ell Solving all problems is not enough motivation to design a new language, what else do you have to offer? ;)
@TonyTheLion You mean lolcats?
 
@FredOverflow Fun! (The keyword for functions)
 
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes you took the words right out of my mouth
@RMartinhoFernandes okay nevermind
 
@FredOverflow yea and any others... pictures of cats always seem to make it to reddit's frontpage
 
> C++ is based on C. You need a good foundation in C to understand C++. – Hot Licks ↵ 47 secs ago
 
7:39 PM
Nonsense.
 
Ell
complete and utter bullship
 
@CatPlusPlus Who said that crap?
 
Maybe in order to understand why certain C++ design decisions were made.
 
-1
Q: I want to learn to program in C++ as a complete noob to programming ~ what are some good books?

Chris Wheelous Possible Duplicate: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List I am a new programmer who is looking to learn C++ and programming from the ground up. Currently I am currently also a noob in VB.NET who's extent of programming comes from copying and pasting code from the net to get my apps ru...

 
Ell
(I just wanted to say bullship)
 
7:40 PM
where is my "downvote comment" button =(
2
 
Lol someone upvoted his comment.
 
nothing strange - there are people who even write in C
 
@CatPlusPlus Probably a C programmer.
 
Well, that is strange.
 
7:45 PM
How do you hash a pointer value? Is it as simple as, for example, p%1024 ?
 
@StackedCrooked why only 10 bits?
 
reinterpret_cast to some integral and hash that?
 
@Abyx Just an example, assume n bits.
@RMartinhoFernandes Is that more correct?
 
@StackedCrooked That would actually be a bad idea. Because you'll be surprised at how well addresses can be aligned. At least don't use a power-of-two.
 
@StackedCrooked You can't do p % n, can you?
 
7:47 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Haven't tested :D
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Huh? XML and generics where a revolution in software technology? Oh boy, we're so deep in shit then.
 
> @sbi: I believe it was CPL -> BCPL -> B -> C -> C with classes -> C++. – FredOverflow 36 secs ago
Yay, I managed to completely derail the discussion.
 
@StackedCrooked And actually, my top-voted answer is around the WTF performance of having a couple of (coincidentally) aligned pointers.
 
functional PLs can't beat even XML
 
Computers are based on electronics, and electronics are based on physics, therefore you should learn that before doing anything.
 
7:49 PM
@CatPlusPlus But we haven't found the boson yet!
 
Ell
but physics is based on maths
 
no
 
Ell
and maths is based on... ummmm...... pass.
 
So you should learn nothing at all before doing anything.
 
Ell
(see xkcd comic)
 
7:49 PM
@Mysticial Should I prefer ((p / 1024) % 1000) then?
 
@StackedCrooked Because we're too busy with bosoms.
 
I'm not. :(
 
Ell
bosoms? o.O
 
We are frantically looking for bosoms.
 
Ell
n'awww :(
 
7:50 PM
Well, it's more of a play on m being before n than reality.
 
Ell
I have some right in front of me :D
 
@StackedCrooked Still a bad idea, because pointers could be close together - which will all hash to the same value. You'll want something like p % 1013 or some other prime number.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes And from that we can deduce that the successor of C is neither C++ nor D, but a language named P. Has that been that invented yet?
(JFTR: I am absolutely sure there's a language named "P". I'd be surprised if there's a letter in the English alphabet that doesn't have a programming language named after it. But is there one that — is based on and — bound to replace C?)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You cannot divide pointers :) You have to cast to an integral type first.
 
@sbi I know there's a P# (the puppy would love it).
@FredOverflow Ah, so I was right.
 
7:53 PM
@Ell pretty sure math is based on theoretical axioms, which reality seems to obey.
 
sbi
@Ell Is that the newly accepted form of citing XKCD? You just say "see XKCD comic", and the others have to go searching for which one you might be referring to? I suppose you can always say this as a valid argument, because with approaching 1k he will have covered just about every topic, right?
 
@StackedCrooked Is std::hash not specialized for void*s? You could look at the implementation.
 
@Mysticial I now feel inclined to write a little test program that finds the optimal value of n for me.
 
@sbi see XKCD comic
 
@sbi It was posted here a couple of hours ago.
 
7:54 PM
@FredOverflow I didn't even know that existed.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow You can subtract, though, and division can be implemented by subtraction.
 
Ell
@sbi sorry it was there earlier :P
 
@sbi Guess that would take a while.
 
@StackedCrooked Be ready for surprises. You'll find that the "best" values for n will be prime, which are also the slowest to divide/mod by...
 
@sbi I strongly doubt that. What would it mean to divide a pointer by 2?
 
7:55 PM
Stop quoting the same XKCD over and over!
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Now you got us started...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes look what you did
 
static size_t hash(const void* __ptr,
                            size_t __clength,
                            size_t __seed = static_cast<size_t>(0xc70f6907UL))
{ return _Hash_bytes(__ptr, __clength, __seed); }
 
@StackedCrooked And also, you can't just loop through with a run-time n. You'll be missing out on compiler optimizations that could be done if n were a literal.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow You subtract half of its address value.
 
7:56 PM
deja vu
 
@sbi And I finished it too.
 
@sbi I can't find an xkcd for how there's an xkcd for everything
 
@sbi So to halve something, you first halve it and then subtract it? Sounds like infinite recursion to me.
 
I'm going to see what the bin looks like right now.
 
@Mysticial Hm... Dammit.
 
sbi
7:58 PM
@FredOverflow Well, you decrement it until its value, cast to integer, added to itself, results in the original pointer. (That assumes it's at least word-aligned.) :)
 
@Mysticial I could use a compile-time loop though.
 
@sbi best I got so far is this comic: xkcd.com/207, which is only a casual reference to our mindsets
 
@sbi That's also assuming something about the mapping function between integers and pointers.
 
@sbi Okay, and what exactly would the meaning of that pointer be? It may not even be properly aligned.
 
@StackedCrooked Ideally, if you know how your pointers will be distributed, that can help you build a more appropriate hash.
 
7:59 PM
@MooingDuck Is there such a thing and you just can't find it, or do you not know wether it exists?
 
You could have a pointer char* p to address 0x10 and p+4 be at address 0x0C, for example.
 
@FredOverflow I thought they were hashing. Did I lose track
 
sbi
@FredOverflow How should I know? All I said was that you can divide pointers without casting them to an integer first. I never said it's useful. :)
 
@Mysticial That makes sense. So hashes would work really well with memory pools.
 
@sbi In general you can't.
 
7:59 PM
@FredOverflow I'm starting with the assumption that it exists. Though it may not be written yet.
 

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