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sbi
10:00 AM
@LucDanton I can see where you're coming from, but I maintain that this interpretation is overly PC.
Face it, most people are hetero. Most men are excited about women, most women are excited about men.
 
@sbi That's not the point.
@sbi I don't deny that.
 
sbi
@LucDanton So why deny the generalization?
 
@jalf: I have not noticed from the article, that it would affect their work practice.
 
@sbi most women I know of don't particularly want to be "excited about" when they're applying for a job based on technical skills
 
> We still don't have a hot programiss on the team... which is probably for the better.
Sounds like I think it would affect their work practice.
 
10:03 AM
@wilx wanting to hire someone because of her gender sounds like affecting their work practice to me
 
I do not sense from the article that they would hire her if she weren't technically apt.
 
@sbi Being a man excited about a woman or women does not imply being heterosexual. Being a man and not being excited about a woman or women does not imply not being heterosexual. I know that the last part wasn't implied by anyone, but it's one of those insidious things society does. The point is that heterosexual and related terms are largely useless and misleading categorization of individuals, unless you're doing writing a paper.
 
Do you want photo of programiss from your company :)?
 
I sense that it is an added bonus for them that she is a woman.
 
@wilx added to what?
 
10:05 AM
facepalm
 
Her funny code comments.
 
what is the "base" bonus then? The only thing mentioned in the article is her gender
 
And presumed hotness.
 
so it's not just a bonus, her gender and hotness are all that matters
 
sbi
@LucDanton Well, so why did you even bring this up?
 
10:06 AM
@sbi Sometimes, not being part of the problem isn't enough.
 
@jalf: I do not see that there.
<something about hammer and nail>
 
sbi
@jalf No, it's not hard to interpret in other ways. (When you read the article you see that it is, in part, meant that way, but, again, I was asking about Martinho's quote.)
 
@wilx once again, where do you see anything else?
 
There's a small mention of her bringing "some fresh ideas".
 
where do they describe any other properties of hers than her gender and looks?
 
sbi
10:07 AM
@jalf "As a team of three male programmers who would likely get alarming results on the autism test, we knew that she would be a very welcome addition to our team." How about that? To me, this refers to social skills.
 
You guys are worse than a knitting circle!
2
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter We are the stitch and bitch club!
 
3 mins ago, by jalf
so it's not just a bonus, her gender and hotness are all that matters
I agree with the hotness bit, lol
Thanks for the advice @sbi and @jalf
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't know why it sounds wrong to you. A fem (unless statistically unusual) on the team brightens up the day for most of the males. There is more social warmth. Communication is improved. The only problem is that with a female around they may become more aggressive and competitive, strutting, showing off their feathers, which is not necessarily good, especially for Aspberger's types.
 
Hotness bit sounds like something Intel would do.
 
10:10 AM
@CatPlusPlus they regulate it :P
 
well, go ahead and ask a female programmer how they'd react if something like that was said about them. :)
 
gender balance is important for team. And I always will be prefer famale programmer
 
sbi
@jalf Whom are you referring to?
 
I would prefer better programmers.
Who cares if it's a woman, a man or a tree.
(And I'd pick a tree before any full-time PHP programmer.)
 
I prefer female if other things are equal
 
10:12 AM
(Yes, now I'm being mean.)
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I've seen very good programmers which were nevertheless removed from a team (or never even hired), because programming skills is not all that matters when you have to work in a team.
 
A better definition of "good programmers" would include those other skills.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Indeed. Unfortunately, they are often forgotten. And, incidentally, they are more often found in women than they are found in men. :)
 
Main problems with females in team what we must "filter" conversations :). We can't use SHORT words to describe quality of code :)
 
10:15 AM
isn't that good?
 
@vromanov What?
 
@sbi : if I look at the female employees at my department, they're on average no better than males (the extra skills included)
 
What does it mean to "filter" conversations? Why would a female in the team make that necessary?
 
Women on your team are always polite?
 
I'm a polite male.
 
10:16 AM
Code either sucks or is good enough, what more do you want.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Or so you wish us to believe.
 
@CatPlusPlus Someone that isn't a pain to work with.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Conditions to have everybody on the team always write as good code as possible?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Get a better job. :P
 
has any of you written or know of a tutorial on iostreams for beginners
 
10:17 AM
@CatPlusPlus You mean, a job with better programmers? :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes We can't use Obscene expressions
 
@sbi Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with describing quality with words.
 
@Cat Plus Plus: for one, someone that accepts criticism (a common problem with many programmers in my experience)
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I can't parse that. What do you mean?
 
@vromanov Oh boy, here we go again. Males can get offended by that as well. And women also use obscene expressions.
 
10:18 AM
3 mins ago, by vromanov
Main problems with females in team what we must "filter" conversations :). We can't use SHORT words to describe quality of code :)
 
really? why not?
 
@Potatoswatter Women not always polite but by tradition womens not use obscene expressions
 
@AlfPSteinbach Would this do? It's lying around in my bookmarks… horstmann.com/cpp/streams.txt
 
i just dismissed a flag
 
@vromanov Not around here, buddy
 
10:20 AM
@vromanov Since when, lol.
 
sbi
@vromanov Who's tradition? The women I lived with all used (the German equivalent of) "Fuck!" when the shit hit the fan.
 
Russia is relative sexist country
 
Whose.
 
If the code doesn't suck and you use obscenities to describe it, you're probably being rude no matter the gender of the listeners. If it sucks so bad you need to use obscenities, it might be that the non-social skills need some work.
 
@sbi You must read dictionary of russian obscene expressions :)
 
sbi
10:22 AM
@vromanov Yeah, and insisting that women don't swear when the situation calls for (or do not enjoy discussing sex, as that Adam Davis suggested in the discussions on my sex question on meta) is about as sexist as it can get.
 
According to my 20th Century Russia class, you guys also have always had more female engineers than other societies. Go figure.
 
sbi
@vromanov Why would I need to?
 
I wouldn't want to be in a team without sense of humour.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I wouldn't want to be in a team with (only) your sense of humor. Too much strain. :)
 
10:24 AM
lol
 
Why the animal club?
 
@Potatoswatter thanks. nice ideas. i think perhaps to advanced for audience (beginners in Facebook group)
 
Rule 1 of the animal club: you do not talk about animal club.
 
@AlfPSteinbach People talk/learn C++ on Facebook?
2
 
rule 1 of the tautology club is the number one rule of the tautology club
 
10:25 AM
My world is shattered.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yes
 
@sbi "Fuck" - is boring :) Russian obscene is very complex
 
sbi
@Raynos ??
 
Many languages have more elaborate swear words than English.
Or whole expressions.
 
10:29 AM
if C++ had a std::bad_code exception, then one could just throw that around...
 
sbi
@vromanov I find the idea to invent a supposedly dirty term for what's the best and most beautiful thing you can do in this world, and then use this word as the most dirty word in your society, an obscenity in itself which probably says more of the society doing this than a whole library on the subject. And the schizophrenic denial that the word even exists and is in daily use (just search for "Brainfuck" on SO) is even more enraging.
German, too, has more swearwords than that. And so might have Americans. But they are less common/known.
 
It's not an exception if it happens almost all the time. :P
 
@sbi Shh, don't use the word like that! Censor the "i".
You'll get us all banned!
 
I find "k" offensive.
 
Bra*nfuck
 
10:31 AM
@AlfPSteinbach That's what std::logic_error is defined to mean…
 
*rainfuck
 
@CatPlusPlus But since it's bad code, it's allowed to be an exception even if it happens 99% of time.
 
it could be considered a kind of curse. All depends what() it is.
 
@CatPlusPlus Fucking in the rain?
 
10:32 AM
Sounds like a title of a porn movie.
 
sbi
@DeadMG <sings> I'm fuuuucking in the rain... </sings>
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger We've been discussing women and sex all morning. Where have you been?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Busty?
 
10:33 AM
lulz
 
lol
oh by the way @Tony
I solved my PROLOG problem, and you'll never guess what it was
 
that's my name, don't wear it out
how?
 
Program... logic?
 
syntax error?
 
turns out that in PROLOG, you have to start all your variables with an upper case
 
10:34 AM
sex?
 
Thinking in C++?
 
how goddamn stupid is that?
 
Hah!
Nice one.
 
hahah!
 
Not the only language with enforced naming conventions.
Haskell, Erlang, Go.
 
10:35 AM
Ruby has a bunch of those.
 
and the interpreter won't even do you the courtesy of erroring if you get it wrong
so you're sitting there and your code doesn't work for no apparent reason
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus And I heard there even are languages enforcing whitespace conventions. To think of that stupidity...
 
It's still a valid program, what did you expect?
It can't reject valid programs.
@sbi Haskell is one. So, it has both.
 
consider it NSFW
 
lol
 
10:36 AM
@sbi I believe Python does that
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger That's what I was referring to.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, the result isn't a valid program, since I tried to unify things that won't unify
 
You mean, it produces "no." as a result?
 
yeah
 
Sounds like a valid program to me.
 
sbi
10:38 AM
@TonyTheTiger Now I know where you've been to. Obviously, our discussions here are way to tame for you. (BTW, was there a point to that? I didn't read the whole thing.)
 
but not anything useful like, Error: Pattern matching failed! You attempted to pass a string to something that could only take "message"
 
@sbi no, I just saw it on the front page of reddit and I thought it was funny
fapping with a cucumber and getting caught
 
There's no such thing as something that could only take "message".
 
sure there is
func(message).
 
I thought PROLOG had no typed arguments.
 
10:39 AM
python and occam. bjarne once proposed whitespace as an operator. just for fun.
 
@DeadMG No, that's something that only unifies with message.
 
uh also old fortran
 
@AlfPSteinbach and what would this operator do?
 
It can take anything.
And produce "no." as a result, and "yes." when you do func(message)..
 
pretty sure that a string will not unify with message
 
10:40 AM
That's what "no." means.
 
yeah
so it would be tremendously helpful if instead of just going "no" it would go "You did something dumb! Here, let me tell you all about it in extreme detail!"
just like what happens if you get an ambiguous overload in C++, I mean, it's not fun, but at least the compiler actually tells you what went wrong
 
No.
 
6 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Thinking in C++?
I was right after all.
 
I don't want to think in PROLOG, it sucks donkey balls
 
10:42 AM
@DeadMG There is a tool for it to tell you all in extreme detail. It's called a debugger.
 
sbi
@DeadMG You should try, though. They might taste nice, after all.
 
no
the only upside of this is that when I hand this in, I will never have to even look at this abomination again
 
"In addition to the overloading of missing whitespace, etc., this distributed version includes overloading based on the color of identifiers. Due to the limitations of the printing process used for this article, I cannot give examples, but basically a red x is obviously a different identifier to a green x. This is most useful for making scope differences obvious. For example, I use black for keywords, red for global
variables (as a warning), blue for member names, and green for local variables. In all, a given character can be of one of 256 colors. Naturally, this again reduces the need for
 
@DeadMG Well, it's your choice. But as you have seen, programming in PROLOG without thinking in PROLOG is a bit difficult.
 
thinking in PROLOG is not thinking at all
it's trying to convince the virtual machine of what you're thinking
 
10:45 AM
@DeadMG: Why are you using it?
 
@wilx university assignment
 
@DeadMG why don't you open up to different programming paradigms and learn something from it. Can only broaden your horizons, no?
3
 
Ah, well, do it, be done with it, forget it.
Stop whining and finish it! :)
 
@wilx You forgot a "take something from it" somewhere in the middle :P
 
@TonyTheTiger I have learned something from it. That it sucks. Tremendously.
 
10:46 AM
I managed in Prolog mainly by ignoring the notion of a virtual machine…
Anyway what is it you need to do?
 
@DeadMG that's the wrong thing to learn.
 
it's the truth
 
I'm sorry :(
 
so am I, it would be nice if it sucked less
 
It is just hard to do for imperative programmers.
 
10:47 AM
@Potatoswatter some logic problem about stacking coloured cubes
@wilx no, it just sucks
 
Haskell sucks the same way for imperative programmers. Yet, it is awesome.
 
@DeadMG so is there any other language that you have coded in besides C++? Perhaps functional programming language or whatever?
 
I don't have such a problem with Haskell, actually
I used to hate it, now I just think that it overdoes a perfectly good paradigm
 
@wilx Why didi you use an euphemism on the second sentence?
 
@TonyTheTiger I did a lot of work in Lua
 
sbi
10:48 AM
Samsung now accuses apple to have copied its iPad from movies: news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20096061-248/…. That's a nice twist in the ongoing patent violation battle.
 
@DeadMG oh cool
 
@DeadMG Hmm. Maybe you are still on the first stage with PROLOG.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: What part of it is euphemistic?
 
@sbi What's next? Science-fiction authors suing companies?
@wilx "awesome"
 
probably
 
10:49 AM
lol
How is that euphemistic.
I think it is awesome.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Their work is copyrighted not patented.
 
and I've also used the usual littany of other languages to some nothing extent, like Java, C#, SQL, etc
 
It just is so different that it is painful to do anything non-trivial.
...for me.
 
IANAL but I wonder what it would take for a film to be construed as prior art.
 
10:51 AM
Hey, defence by sci-fi is awesome. :)
2
 
sbi
@LucDanton Well, obviously, Samsung tries to bring exactly this into the battlefield.
 
Sounds like a really desperate move.
And maybe a bit ridiculous, but that kinda fits with the whole patent wars theme.
 
@sbi Yeah your message completely went over my head, the article helped me understand thing.
 
well, they're completely right
the idea of a tablet is hardly original to Apple
 
I only read 'patents battle - movie', did not connect dots.
 
10:55 AM
@LucDanton I don't see any dots only a dash
 
That's probably why he didn't connect them.
 
lulz
but funny, esp seeing who posted that
hahah
 
rofl
 
I'm not a lawyer or a socialist, but patents should be non-transferrable and should apply in inverse proportion to the size of the market.
 
11:04 AM
Making patents non-transferable sounds like everyone would just use new forms of licensing to mimic transferability. I.e. exclusive, relicensable, non-competition license?
No offense but I'm calling that idea stupid.
 
The idea called me, and she says she's offended.
 
I apologize for nothing!
Also, I need my breakfast. Too cranky right now.
 
@LucDanton I don't see how. It prevents you from buying patents and then using them to sue people for violating them. You can't get a "license to sue"
 
Ideas are people too!
 
@jalf *Exclusive* license. Although of course the licensee can't sue on the patent owner's behalf. <- irrelevant
 
11:07 AM
@LucDanton Fair nuff. I can't tink of a way around that. But the idea of limiting enforceability based on the amount of money at stake still seems like a good idea.
 
@LucDanton and that's the important part, IMO. Patent trolls can't hoard a bunch of existing patents and run a business solely by suing
 
@jalf That does force patent trolls to file patents themselves. So more revenue for the patent office. Heh.
 
Patents are supposed to encourage individual investors, not be tokens as huge corporations try to stifle competition in billion-dollar industries.
 
@LucDanton and that in turn requires them to invest in R&D and actually create something that can be patented
 
@Potatoswatter Well for the industries where they don't do that it'd make sense to just scratch them rather than salvage them.
 
11:10 AM
Inventing something gives the inventor a business opportunity. By the time the invention creates a market that everyone buys into, the inventor has already either succeeded or failed.
 
@jalf Well, not necessarily.
@Potatoswatter Yes, that's the idea. Nope
But the implementation doesn't work everywhere. Nope
Oh god
I keep misreading stuff
Let me strike all this.
And now I'm off for that breakfast, brain needs food badly.
 
I'm just saying, once the inventor's personal opportunity has been finally realized or lost, the patent should be void.
The practice is to use a time limit: you have 20 years or whatever to make money. But that might be way too short for a rocket engine, or way too long for a software program.
Instead, there should be some kind of market metric. Even if those are bullshit, it would still be less nonsensical.
Once you've had a chance to make 100 million dollars, you're done.
 
Huh, how would adding bullshit to it make it less nonsensical?
 
I think that patents should definitely only be applicable if you can prove that you're actively commercializing them
and even then, only valid to the launch of one product
 
The problem is that merely licensing the idea is still "commercializing"
 
11:16 AM
you would have to actively attempt to licence it
not merely sue other people
and put a reasonable price on it
 
@Potatoswatter but the earning potential for patents varies hugely too
 
consider ARM, for example- they just licence out, but I'd still call their patents valid
 
as much as the "time to become a market success" does
 
except for the time-based thing, of course
 
What is ARM?
 
11:17 AM
you don't know ARM?
 
@DeadMG I'm not sure, but I think those requirements are in place. The mere threat of litigation is often enough to squeeze a settlement though.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the CPU company? Makes cpus for practically every embedded/mobile device under the sun
 
@DeadMG Not the one you're talking about, I think. I keep thinking of the Amalgamated Regional Militia, and it scares me.
 
@jalf: They don't make anything, they just licence out their designs, other companies fab them
 
ARM develops CPU cores. They don't just sit on their butt and collect money for the ISA… (although they do that too)
 
11:18 AM
@DeadMG they develop the designs :)
 
@DeadMG Do you realize how many fabless companies there are relative to fab operators? You could say the same of NVIDIA.
 
I'm pretty sure that nVidia actually makes some GPUs
 
(About "other companies fab them," not licensing designs.)
@DeadMG They do not operate factories.
 
but yes, fundamentally, their system is pretty similar
 
AMD and NVidia don't make GPUs either
they make the designs, and get others to fab them
AMD even does the same for CPUs these days
 
11:20 AM
Well… AMD still has a close relationship with its former manufacturing division.
Hmm, AMD. Now there's a poster child for the patent system status quo.
 
not really, I'd say that they're a poster child for breaking the status quo
they managed to force Intel into a cross-licencing deal
 
as when Intel tried to patent troll them, they could just patent troll them back
 
11:36 AM
I think they make a net profit on their portfolio, but on second thought I'm really not too sure. Also don't know how much of that comes from Intel… other competitors probably pay tribute.
 
nobody else competes with AMD in the CPU market
 
Anyway, they're probably an instance of patents preserving jobs and competition.
 
Intel had to licence them x86, else they would lose x64
 
@DeadMG other than Intel, you mean?
And Via, of course
 
Fine, not competitors, but licensees.
 
11:38 AM
and the entire ARM ecosystem has some overlap too
 
@jalf Yeah, I mean other than Intel
don't think ARM and AMD compete in terms of patents :P
 
@DeadMG there are a couple other x86 licensees
 
o really? I've never heard of any
 
@DeadMG Via?
 
There are tons of patents covering every aspect of microprocessor design.
 
11:39 AM
Think thre are a few others, but can't remember who
 
ARM vs x86 only covers the instruction decoding frontend.
 
11:52 AM
 
3
Q: Overload the 'space' operator in C++?

ChrisI have a little bit of experience in C++. I know how to overload the plus sign and what not, but would like to overload the space operator. For example: MyObject obj(); result = obj - foo; // This would be treated as a normal '-' operation. result = obj-foo; // This would invoke code which t...

 
Gosh.
Someone took that paper from Bjarne too seriously.
 
12:14 PM
People still believe const_cast lets you cheat.
1
Q: Can C# cast const?

hidayatIf an object is readonly or const, is it possible to cast that object to make it writable? Something similar to C++ const_cast.

 
const_cast< RAM >( ROM )
5
 
lol
 
12:29 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes You meant const_cast<int&>(... and also you have an interesting comment in there.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:32 PM
@LucDanton Thanks. I hope I fixed everything.
 
1:50 PM
Is there a way to get Markdown to add anchors inside my own answers? I guess not, but I'd be happy to be wrong.
 
Nope.
 
The way to add a heading is by "underlining" a line with dashes. Doubt that adds an anchor, but if you ask on Meta they might add it in.
 
I want fancy footnotes!
 
2:04 PM
> If there is a user-written candidate with the same name and parameter types as a built-in candidate operator function, the built-in operator function is hidden and is not included in the set of candidate functions.
How is this possible?
 
Comma? :p
 
Hmm, there's no built-in operator, candidate.
 
Let me check something else.
 
Is that for enum types?
Clause and paragraph, please…
 
It's a note on 13.6/1.
 
2:10 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that only applies to enum types.
 
I considered if it were possible to write a template that could be instantiated with relevant signature but there doesn't seem to be it.
 
Ah, applying to enums makes sense.
 
15 For every T, where T is an enumeration type, a pointer type, or std::nullptr_t, there exist candidate operator functions of the form

bool operator<(T , T );
bool operator>(T , T );
 
Yes.
And old-style enums are promoted integral types, so it applies even to + and such.
Now, I'm confused about the missing candidate operator,. Why isn't it there?
 
Hello =]
 
2:14 PM
Hi.
> You solve it by doing what programmers do when unexpected things happen: you read, and you think.
3
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Beats me. For that matter, why is operator? defined but only for a limited range of types?
 
Sorry for interrupting you. How to find out the number of threads of a given process in linux? I didn't find a good solution anywhere
 
@Potatoswatter Yeah, that's really weird.
 
@Potatoswatter What is operator? ? Do you mean operator?:?
 
I assumed that's what he meant.
 
2:24 PM
@FredOverflow It changed between C++03 and C++11, LOL
Now I have to rewrite all my old operator? overloads.
 
Your what?
You're joking right?
 
@Michael Here's a mediocre solution: pramodgoggi.blogspot.com/2008/07/… … still looking
 
You couldn't do that before, could you?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
Ok, just checking. I wasn't around before the C++11 FDIS :)
 
2:28 PM
Well, I do need to rewrite all of them because there aren't any…
 
You don't need to, then. You'll do fine without rewriting them :)
 
Can I overload operator operator to support a different operator overloading syntax?
 
touché
 
@FredOverflow And then you could also overload the operator overloading syntax overloading syntax to support a different operator overloading syntax overloading syntax.
 
hmm, kind of silly. Windows Error Reporting seems to let you submit arbitrary files and collect crash reports for them. Tempting to tell them to collect crashes for explorer.exe or something
 
2:31 PM
There, I pushed it up to eleven.
@jalf You mean, submit explorer.exe instead of a proper crash dump or something?
 
yeah
you just tell them which files to collect crashes for
 
fuck that, submit password files
and lets hack the planet
 
But why is explorer.exe tempting?
 
give them the file size, version and a hash, which can be generated using their own tool
@RMartinhoFernandes would be interesting to see how many ways people crash it ;)
any other widely used third-party program would do as well
 
Yay, I capped.
 
2:41 PM
I came, I answered, I capped
 

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