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12:13 AM
Love how we have Dead's "Why would anyone want to have sex instead of being here?" while the other rooms are just completely serious with things like "Discussion for JavaScript and the many frameworks - jQuery, Prototype, MooTools, et al. Weekly Topic: We need one -.-"
 
yeah
that's because we drive the FunVee and everyone else drives the HumDrumVee
also
I think I might have actually completed my PROLOG coursework
 
12:38 AM
hi
I have difficulty in understanding RMQ can you help me in understanding Rmq .DeadMG ?
I have coordinate points ..(x,y) say I have 10 points .. now when a new point is given as test query say (p,q) .. I have to check with every point in coordinate points ..if x coordinate of text query that is P <X && Q>Y
My prof suggested to do by Rmq- range min/max query ..can some one help me how may i do this
 
1:13 AM
@DeadMG No, sir. We at the FBI do not have a sense of humor we're aware of. May we come in?
 
 
6 hours later…
7:33 AM
0
Q: Where exactly is the boundary between a preprocessor and a compiler?

FredOverflowAccording to various sources (for example, the SE radio episode with Kevlin Henney, if I remember correctly), "C with classes" was implemented with preprocessor technology (with the output then being fed to a C compiler), whereas C++ has always been implemented with a compiler that just happened ...

 
Will C++11 officially provide something like c99 stdint.h in the standard library? I can't find anything so I guess not but maybe I just missed something.
 
C++0x has [stdint.h] as part of the standard library, yes. N3290 §18.4.1
 
ah, great, thank you :)
 
I think I just had a heart attack and a premature ejaculation :)
 
7:52 AM
@FredOverflow: Nobody can last 58 minutes. :D
 
well but what's new?
 
lol
 
@FredOverflow :) :) :)
 
8:31 AM
ugh, you know you're doing something wrong when you're writing .bat files where you need parentheses around commands to specify precedence
 
What?
.bat files have that?
 
@jalf huh
@RMartinhoFernandes yes
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah, I didn't realize that until now, but apparently
 
i don't understand
i frequently write things like "for %d in (blah) do @(something & whatever)"
 
if defined FOO echo foo & echo bar will do nothing if FOO isn't defined.
(if defined FOO echo foo) & echo bar will echo bar regardless
 
8:35 AM
the thing to know about Windows command interpreter is that it's pretty arbitrary which commands produce "correct" exit codes
however, && and || work in some cases where inspecting errorlevel does not
 
And you're missing the fact that overall it sucks horribly.
 
well, I'm not too concerned about the exit code, I just need to be able to execute two commands on a single line
 
yes, it was written by a female programmer
 
and the first one should only be executed conditionally depending on a variable
 
she was into, what's it's called, they dress in black etc.?
 
8:37 AM
goth?
 
yes
but maybe she didn't have a choice, she was probably instructed to emulate DOS as perfectly as possible
she even reproduced the bugs in the echo command, so that we can write echo:hah etc. just as in DOS... :-)
I meant, echo/hah
hah
 
OMG, that works.
0
Q: Enforce use of Getter / Setter within same class (C++)

HugoIs there a way in C++ to enforce the use of getters or setters WITHIN the class? class C{ private: int x; // should only be Changed by setX(); private: setX(int i){ (...) // enforce some complicated invariantes x = i; }; m(){ x = 5; // shoul...

 
@AlfPSteinbach that's why she dressed in black, you mean?
 
8:55 AM
no, it's unrelated
it's just one of the silly history facts i keep in back of brain, that [cmd.exe] was implemented by a goth female at Microsoft
 
Oh, I thought you were joking.
 
@AlfPSteinbach oh. I thought it was a pretty good joke. ;)
 
no, i never joke
he he
 
lol
That's nice trivia.
I hate CMD.exe syntax and lack of capabilities.
And I do not like PowerShell either.
The more I have to do both the more I appreciate how capable is Bourne shell scripting.
 
You like Bourne shell?
You should hate them all.
 
9:01 AM
Compared to what CMD.exe can do? YES!!
 
CMD.exe is Turing-complete :P
 
You need some kind of shell scripting one way or another. Bourne shell is orders of magnitude more scriptable.
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yes, and it also sucks donkey balls.
 
struct C {
    C() { } // initializes members as follows:
    A a; // OK: calls A::A()
    const B b; // error: B has no default constructor
    int i; // OK: i has indeterminate value
    int j = 5; // OK: j has the value 5
};
We can have initializers like with j there now?
 
Yes, C++11 stuff.
 
Fred* const p would be the same as const Fred* p ?
 
9:05 AM
No.
The first const affects the splat, the second affects Fred.
 
const affects what is at its left side. When there is nothing, then what is at its right side.
That is why I think that writing T const is better than writing const T.
 
Fred* const p is like const shared_ptr<Fred> p and const Fred* p is like shared_ptr<const Fred> p.
except for the sharing, of course ;-)
 
oh thanks
well going to a job interview soon, wish me luck :P
 
Good luck.
Break some appendage.
 
9:22 AM
Isn't it customary to say "break a leg" when you're wishing luck to someone?
 
not that I've heard of, but then I'm no expert in English
break a leg means have fun to me
meh, it means "good luck", so I had it wrong
TIL what "break a leg" really means
 
well, good luck anyway. ;)
 
Thanks :)
is this true or is it just a rumour?
 
So, what happens now? Is the RDF intrinsic to Apple or to Steve?
 
9:39 AM
i never thought of it that way b4, but the witch hunts can be viewed as human sacrifice
 
RDF?
 
no i mean the real witch hunts
150 years ago or more
 
@wilx Reality Distortion Field.
 
sbi
Wow.
0
Q: Quick sort in compiltion time using C++11 variadic template

kuangyeQuick sort in compiltion time using C++11 variadic template Hi, all. I just implement the quick sort by using C++11 variadic template to evaluate it in compilation time. But I encounter the performance issue when the data set is large. #include <iostream> using namespace std; template&...

 
i pray that we'll be uplifted before long
:)
 
sbi
9:46 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes That's intrinsic to Jobs.
Oh, another wow! blog.stackoverflow.com
 
@sbi Is the "wow" for the implementation of quicksort, or for the question of why is it halting for 1000 elements?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes For attempting a quicksort in TMP.
That's brave, if you ask me.
 
Uh, I did that the other day.
I don't think it's special at all.
If you know your Haskells (replace with your favourite obsessively-functional programming language), it's easy.
 
sbi
10:03 AM
So they finally implemented that "filtered view of SO" idea I saw on meta a while ago. Take a tag and create a subsite from it. Interesting.
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, my problem might be that I don't work in C++ anymore. I probably stopped doing TMP too early, to me this is still close to black magic.
 
10:18 AM
@sbi Hmm, when can we have a C++ portal :)?
Btw, did you vote for the tag synonym already?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes My first thought when I saw this. OTOH, I doubt we'd get a specific C++ portal. What's so special about C++ to require that? If we ever get that, then as part of a general feature where you can make your own portal of a hand-picked set of tags.
@RMartinhoFernandes Wow, I'm at the top of the C++11 user list! :D Haha, this is so easily manipulated...
 
@sbi That will probably change once the synonym is in place. There are more than a thousand of questions tagged .
 
sbi
Anyway, no I hadn't (because I hadn't looked yet), but now I have. Still one more vote missing.
@RMartinhoFernandes Old questions will not be re-tagged automagically.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Don't worry, I still won't keep being at the top, because I rarely ever answer nowadays.
Anyway, I see that @Dead, @jalf, @Potatoswatter, @Fred, @Luc, @Alf, and @Kerrek are chat users who could upvote this synonym to finally put it into existence, and at most two of them already did so.
 
10:28 AM
I did vote the tag synonym
 
sbi
@DeadMG Nice doggie!
 
I also finished my PROLOG coursework, and it actually works and stuff too
 
@sbi I can't
At least, I couldn't yesterday
ah, works now. I guess I got some more c++11 rep since then
 
sbi
@jalf Yeah, we turned a few c++0x questions to c++11 since, which got many on the list that weren't there yesterday.
 
there's been a quite extensive re-tagging so that we get more c++11 rep
 
10:32 AM
The tag scores are only updated daily, so I guess that was it.
Ok, it's done. Now I want my badge.
 
sbi
BTW; @RMartinho, I just retagged this question, which will probably get @James at the top of the C++11 user list. :)
@jalf Great, now c++0x will be mapped to c++11.
 
sbi
Now can you guys please go to meta.stackoverflow.com/q/93173/133368 and close this as a dupe? Thanks.
 
Sorry, no close powers on meta :(
 
yeah, I also can't close on Meta
 
sbi
10:36 AM
Today.. Bill Gates is not CEO of Microsoft and Steve Jobs is not CEO of Apple. Welcome to the future.
And another good one:
You know that six months from now Steve Jobs is going to release a better resignation letter.
 
What? The future starts today?
Why didn't anybody warn me?
 
sbi
@RMartinho, @Dead: Too bad. Thanks anyway.
 
lol
 
Also, I want my flying car now.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes It did last night, actually. At least it did so in Europe.
 
10:39 AM
at least the facebook portal lets me check I've got the right tags in my "ignored tags" list
 
The POD FAQ reads at some point: "For POD classes, the lifetime begins when storage for the object is occupied and finishes when that storage is released or reused."
Is this now true for trivial classes instead?
 
sbi
@awoodland Yeah, that was the first thing I did when I saw the portal.
 
Who didn't.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Facebook developers?
 
sbi
10:42 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Why not?
 
@sbi I haven't hanged around the front page or the question page much lately. I mostly just keep a tab open at and sometimes another at .
So, my ignore list is pretty long :)
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Mine is long, too: i.stack.imgur.com/cx06T.png
 
Holy crap.
Mine is long too, but it's implicit.
 
lol
 
Did you collect those over time?
 
10:51 AM
Do you really need that many ignore tags?
There are not that many overlaps if you chose just to see [c++].
 
@sbi I don't see where/how I can vote :(
 
It's already synonym'd.
 
oic, cool
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Whenever I see something on the front page I never want to see again I stuff it in there. That's what it is for, after all.
@wilx That's not true. I still see dozens of tags, many of which I don't care about, but don't feel strong enough about either to put them on the ignore list.
 
You have in there!
You lose points ;)
 
10:56 AM
I have 66 C++0x questions but only 4 C++11 questions. Will this change tomorrow?
 
I'm not sure.
 
Only if they were retagged.
 
I thought this would be done automatically?
 
System doesn't touch old tags after synonym is created, only the new ones are affected.
 
I see
So it is impossible to ask a new C++0x question now?
 
10:58 AM
Tag will be renamed to .
 
sbi
@FredOverflow No, not automatically.
@FredOverflow It's still possible, but they will be tagged . :)
 
There are about 1500 C++0x questions. Anybody bored enough to re-tag them manually? Didn't someone here complain about being extremely bored lately? :)
 
I think mods can do mass retags.
 
Anybody here a mod?
 
no
 
sbi
11:00 AM
@FredOverflow Mods can retag en-masse, but I don't think this would be appropriate. (You wouldn't want to have questions on concepts in the tag, would you?)
3
 
I've retagged questions I've answered, I don't care about the rest. :P
 
@sbi hm, fair enough
 
I retagged all of mine and a few more yesterday, to seed the synonym vote. If you want yours on C++11, retag them yourself :P
 
sbi
When I retagged a few questions yesterday and today I skipped a few. For example, this one should, IMO, not be tagged .
Others should be (IMO), but it needs to be a selective approach.
You will have to look at those questions before retagging.
 
Yes, there are a few questions that won't work well in the new tag.
 
11:07 AM
0
Q: What is the most orthogonal programming language?

FredOverflowI find myself repeatedly annoyed by having to teach freshmen about special language rules (like array-to-pointer decay) that have absolutely nothing to do with programming in itself. So I wondered: What is the programming language with the smallest number of special language rules, where everyth...

 
@FredOverflow Python?
 
I think you'll get LISP.
Everything is first class, because everything is a list.
 
@CatPlusPlus I really need to learn Python someday, then I'll know :)
 
@FredOverflow It's easy, especially when you already know more than one language.
 
Yeah, lisp sounds good. Definitely not Python. Python is chock full of special features to make life easier (list comprehensions, for example), but which aren't necessary
Doesn't the python zen even mention something about it being good to have multiple ways to do things?
 
11:11 AM
No.
 
@jalf That's Perl.
 
List comprehensions aren't a special language rule.
You can easily ignore them completely.
 
@CatPlusPlus I know advanced C++ and intermediate Haskell.
And, well, Java. Is there even such a thing as "advanced Java"? :)
 
Do you do tons of XML?
That's advanced Java, AFAICT.
 
That's enterprise Java.
 
11:14 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't really know Perl, but from what I have seen, I wouldn't let beginners near it.
 
Perl is not a good language for anything, let alone teaching.
 
Interesting, no answers on the question so far.
 
It has its uses.
Like writing line noise that works.
 
I wouldn't use Ruby, either, because it inherits Perl stupidities like magic variables.
 
What exactly makes magic variables magic?
 
11:17 AM
They're magic.
 
they're just there. always. you just have to know about them
 
And not the sufficiently advanced technology kind of magic.
 
like $|
the worst thing is you can't even google it
 
The trick is $ perldoc perlvar.
 
Well, you should know that you need to read perldoc perlvar for that...
 
11:19 AM
They're global one-letter variables that control how runtime behaves.
Well, one-character. Perl has a variable for every punctuation possible.
 
I know, but someone just starting probably just thinks it's voodoo and ignores it
 
@CatPlusPlus One-letter? More like one-punctuation.
 
Hey guys
 
hi
 
I'm never going camping again.
 
11:30 AM
Hi,
what is the fastest c++ library for sparse matrix-dense vector multiplication ?
 
@CatPlusPlus yes, but they're syntactic sugar for things you could've done without them.
 
@jalf And you can write code without even knowing they exist.
I think @Fred had in mind rules that you need to know about, or you'll code will break in funny ways.
Nothing will happen if you don't know about or use list comprehensions.
 
11:48 AM
ah, if so, I agree with you
 
0
A: What are Aggregates and POD's and how/why are they special?

R. Martinho FernandesWhat changes for C++11? Aggregates The standard definition of an aggregate has changed slightly, but it's still pretty much the same: An aggregate is an array or a class (Clause 9) with no user-provided constructors (12.1), no brace-or-equal-initializers for non-static data members (9.2),...

 
I understood it as looking for a language in which such "different ways to do the same thing" didn't exist, or were as rare as possible
 
Looking for feedback.
 
12:03 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes That's a great post !
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus A language that has special rules about whitespace for "smallest number of special language rules"?! What did you smoke this morning?
@KianMayne Why's that?
 
Maybe you could make clearer in the "What about PODs?" section that PODs are trivial and standard-layout. This is only told at the end.
 
@sbi It was shit and cold and wet and my air bed had a massive hole in it -.-
 
sbi
@KianMayne Where were you?
 
Some random place in glastonbury (not the festival, just some crappy camp site)
 
12:08 PM
I went to Paris yesterday for an interview about a C#/C++ job.
 
@kbok how did it go?
 
The interview went great, and they made me an offer. The only thing is that the job really was VB.NET. The guy said to me "You know, it's basically the same thing. You make classes and inheritance and lists..."
:(
 
lol
run away?
 
That's what I did, lol
 
@kbok What exactly is a C#/C++ job? Doing interop mainly?
 
12:12 PM
The third interview was with the lead developer. He asked me some lame algorithm question (check the validity of a solved sudoku) and when he saw my answer he admitted that he "didn't knew that much about generics"
 
Did he literally say "didn't knew"? :)
 
@FredOverflow Generally, it's about developing frameworks for finance applications. The critical part is in C++, and the api is C#-ish.
@FredOverflow No, since he said it in french :)
 
@kbok "Je ne sais pas" or something? :)
 
Yes.
 
What is that in the past tense?
 
12:14 PM
I think it's a french tense thing. When you quote someone who was speaking in present, you quote as past.
 
interesting
 
"Je ne sais pas" -> "Il a dit qu'il ne savait pas"
In case you know some french :)
 
beautiful
yes, a bit from school, but it's been a decade
 
@sbi There's one rule about whitespace, and it's part of the syntax, and not hidden somewhere deep within semantics.
 
I see.
 
12:16 PM
I have forgotten almost everything I knew.
So "Qu'est-ce que c'est? Voulez-vous manger une baguette?" is all I can say these days :)
 
Well, if you go to Paris, the only word you really need to know is "merde".
 
lol
 
Pour que tu m'aimes encore.
 
12:18 PM
Italien seems to be pretty easy to pick up:
xD
 
lol
 
I need to take some time and watch that video Fred posted
but its 1hr long
 
I need to take some time to blog about that awesome sudoku interview. No wait, I won't do that.
 
I need to eat something.
 
someone
you've been called a troll mr!
 
12:39 PM
yeah, I know
 
@hexa Just watched it. It's good.
I'm taking a nap now. Holidays rock! :)
 
go die in a fire :(
 
Haha, I just found the source code for my 4 year old, OO infested (120 classes) Tetris clone that I thought I had lost long ago.
 
1:00 PM
120 classes for a tetris clone ?
 
what do you use for rendering?
 
@DeadMG Haha they make you sound so immature :L
 
@KianMayne Meh? Anyone can make anyone else sound immature. They just didn't read the question and my answer correctly
 
I know, but if that was the first I'd heard of you, I'd think you were a troublemaker :L
 
fortunately, I don't really care what random people on the Internet think of me
especially with such a limited exposure
 
1:02 PM
As you shouldn't
Yum weird waffely things that have honey in the center
 
lol
how random
 
@DeadMG It's actually a very complete and interesting answer. But anyone criticizing a language will mindlessly be called a troll by fanboys.
 
that's not the point, although that is a factor
 
'D' > 'C'
 
the point is that the question asks for opinions, and I gave my opinion, and therefore it's a fine answer
and I clearly stated that I hadn't looked that closely at D because what I'd seen on the surface looked wrong
 
1:09 PM
That's the point of programmers.se itself in fact.
 
like the UFC of programming languages?
 
@hexa What's UFC ?
 
Seriously?
 
what's UFC?
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus But array-to-pointer decay is well-defined, too, isn't it?
 
1:11 PM
Oh god. Nevermind.
 
@hexa jogl, but I struggle to get it running after 4 years. Not sure which version I used back then, probably 1.1.1
But I always get NoClassDefFoundError: com/sun/gluegen/runtime/DynamicLookupHelper when trying to execute.
 
omg, java :(
 
Ugh, java.
 
The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is an American mixed martial arts (MMA) promotion company and the largest in the world. It hosts most of the top-ranked fighters and produces numerous events worldwide. The UFC has seven weight-divisions and enforces the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts. Dana White serves as the president of the UFC; Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta control its parent company, Zuffa, LLC. Inspired by vale tudo tournaments in Brazil, the UFC and the sport of MMA have roots in the ancient Olympic combat sport of Pankration in 648 BC. In 1993, the UFC held it...
This one ?
 
1:12 PM
yes, that one
 
why on earth would any of us know what that is? there are hardly any Americans here
 
Ok.
UFC is a power user group in france.
 
I am no american either
UFC is huge. You guys should read more than technical books
 
@sbi how does one upvote?
 
I do
martial arts is not amongst my interests
 
1:14 PM
I read Balzac and Pratchett, thank you. Also, I don't think there's many books on MMA.
 
I am not saying to study or even like UFC, just knowing it.
 
This is basically a TV thing.
 
why would I know it? it's not relevant at all to any of my interests
 
I am just going to drop the point.
 
Anyway, Java. @FredOverflow, have you tried to fetch as much design patterns as you could into your tetris code ?
 
sbi
1:16 PM
@AlfPSteinbach By clicking on the upvote button. However, the proposal already having gathered the necessary votes, you cannot upvote anymore. :)
 
@FredOverflow but how many singletons does it have?
 
you can't have Java without unnecessary singletons
like a SingletonManagerSingletonFactoryManagerSingleton
 
that's fred's
i think
 
Killing two singletons with one class.
Oh, that's three now. Did they reproduce ?
 
1:19 PM
i discovered that modern guitar amp has only two settings: whisper and shout
 
yep
 
sbi
@hexa Without knowing you or your interests I bet I read way more non-technical books than you do. None of those I read ever mentioned UFC. (That said, I know that UFC is some kind of deteriorated K-1 successor, but that doesn't mean I would have thought of it had I read your comment.)
 
Singleton sex. Yuck.
 
you guys have problems, really
when I say read more, why the hell you think I mean books?
 
sbi
@hexa What are you referring to? Singleton sex?
 
1:20 PM
news come in written form too
 
I don't read that kind of news.
 
I regularly view the state-funded broadcaster's news-site of my constituent country or region
and it's never, ever mentioned UFC
 
@sbi What is K-1 ? Some ancestor of K-2000 ?
 
sbi
@kbok Wasn't it Woody Allen who said that singleton sex is sex with someone you love? However, procreation shouldn't be possible...
 
@sbi I believe it's Woody Allen, but yes. :)
 
sbi
1:23 PM
@kbok So do I believe. :)
@kbok That's the one where Andy Hug aka the blue-eyed samurai used to fight in. :)
 
@kbok Indeed I have. But I just found out that the version I had in my backup folder was rather old. The menu totally sucked.
 
Just deleted 5gb of downloads O.o
 
sbi
@hexa Without knowing you I bet I read way more news than you do. :) But I'm with @kbok on this: The news I read would only mention UFC if something extraordinary happened there, that would be of interest to the general public.
 
Oh god, this version is even older than I thought :)
apparently I was toying around with creating some shape primitives
 
Hum, this is a 2D tetris in 3D ?
 
1:26 PM
later, it looked like this:
 
Wait, there are books on MMA?
 
Non-technical?
 
@kbok yes
lol, I just discovered a state factory in the code base :)
 
That's actually quite pretty, except for the... purple background.
 
1:27 PM
package gamestate;

public interface GamestateFactory
{
    public Gamestate create();
}
public interface Gamestate extends Updatable, HasViewports, Input
{
}
LOL
@kbok you can download it and play, if you like :)
package patterns;

public interface Command
{
	public void execute();
}
 
> It is still in development.
Is it ? :)
 
lol silly Java
"It is still in development" actually means "it was never finished" ;-)
 
@kbok Thanks. Good point about moving that mention from the end to the beginning.
 
@FredOverflow Oh, that explains a lot of things about GNU Hurd then.
If anyone is interested in Java DP shit, there's this strategy game I wrote two years ago : code.google.com/p/srswar
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes No, only news items.
 
1:33 PM
It's not playable though, you need data from M.A.X. and an importer that is not bundled.
 
@kbok DP = double penetration;?
 
@FredOverflow Almost ! Design Patterns.
 
@sbi Was that for me?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I guess so
 
I hope so, otherwise it doesn't make sense.
 
sbi
1:35 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Indeed.
 
I think maybe I should also add some examples of stuff that isn't POD but is trivial and stuff that isn't POD but has standard layout.
 
1:59 PM
what is the natural way to represent/treat time in windows (analog to a unix timestamp in *nix)?
 

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