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9:00 PM
But that's still only now about 3.8x more expensive
And it's a mobile graphics chip
Thats so bad, it's a miracle they're in that business at all
 
Because of dump people like me :D
My previous computer was also overpriced. It was a PC fabricated by a small company that specialized in creating super-silent PCs (ikbenstil.nl)
 
Not a bad deal On the CPU itself, though
 
amd is good choice over intel , low price?
 
They make fine GPUs, and beating intel in the low market
But in general, Intel are way, way ahead.
 
I definitely want my next PC to have a SSD as primary partition.
 
9:06 PM
@DeadMG in one line , how?
 
@StackedCrooked That's still too much Obj-C.
And I refuse to treat Obj-C++ seriously.
 
@CatPlusPlus Now you're just being whiny.
 
Intel CPUs sim
 
It's a crappy language.
 
I find Objective-C to be an interesting language.
 
9:07 PM
It's like C on drugs.
 
Objective-C is awesome when you use the Cocoa API
 
@StackedCrooked What interesting stuff does it have?
 
Ply have obscenely high performance. AMD only compete by running their prices into the ground
 
otherwise it's not that good
 
9:08 PM
OSX APIs are whole another kind of terrible.
 
@CatPlusPlus Now don't be that way
 
Objective-C is more dynamic. You can define methods are runtime for example.
 
Obj-C manages to be hilariously verbose and at the same time not expressive at all.
 
@StackedCrooked I was just playing around comparing a Mac Pro to an HP. To get close to the same price, the HP ends up with a six-core processor with 8 Gig of RAM, but the Mac a quad-core processor and 3 Gig of RAM. Even at that, the HP is ~500 less than the Mac (and both using Xeon processors, so I think it should be a reasonably direct comparison).
 
@JerryCoffin You're missing a crucial component: the bitten apple symbol.
 
9:09 PM
And from what I seen when my coworker struggled with it, it's hellishly inconsistent, too.
 
@DeadMG that's true , people with low budgets can also taste 6 core processors at so low price
 
Objective-C's reflection makes it well-suited for application-level code. For lower level components C++ is much better suited.
 
@JerryCoffin Don't forget that the HP breaks after 2 years
 
Yeah, right. If you wait two years and then toss it down the stairs.
 
How can a language in which a missing method is not an error be well-suited for application-level code?
 
9:10 PM
@JerryCoffin Ok, I may have been mistaken in my estimate.
 
You've made a typo? Oh well, tough, we won't tell you.
But oh, the call will do precisely nothing.
 
@CatPlusPlus It does show compiler warnings.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No seriously, I've had a HP, it was terrible
very poor quality
 
@ManofOneWay Where I used to work, we had both Macs and PCs. I saw no advantage to Apple in terms of durability or dependability.
 
9:11 PM
A friend of mine had a Mac, it was terrible (this is true anecdotal evidence, I am not making it up).
 
And you can implemented a missing method handler.
 
2 years? Who cares? Hardware is out of date then anyway
 
Warning is not good enough.
 
@ManofOneWay HP's low-end consumer models are pretty awful. Their mid- to high-end servers are about the best you can get (IME). I was looking at mid-range servers in this case.
 
If it can't be detected at compile time, it should crash and burn at runtime.
 
9:12 PM
I'm just saying, you are comparing prices. The HP is cheaper and it has lower quality. For example the chassi is all plastic
 
I had to use Mac at my first job 6 years ago. I hated it for a good 3-4 years. I gradually came to appreciate it after that.
 
And for the price difference, you can afford to buy another anyway
 
@ManofOneWay What difference does that make, btw?
 
I don't see anything compelling in Macs, OSX or Obj-C. It's just a pile of bad ideas.
 
Very cheap tO buy e.g a custom case
 
9:13 PM
@ManofOneWay I must admire your ability to figure that out without even knowing what model was being looked at. It's really quite impressive (amazing, really)!
 
@JerryCoffin No I don't know which model you were talking about of course. I was just saying I've had a HP and I will never buy one again
 
@CatPlusPlus You can't approach Objective-C with a C++ mindset and expect to be satisified.
 
Obviously Macs are made of pure unobtanium.
@StackedCrooked It's an error in nearly every language I know.
Dynamic, too.
 
The cheap stuff, all the US manufacturers are being owned by the SEA ones, so they had to cut costs
 
AFAIR JavaScript can fail hilariously at this, but it's JavaScript, so nothing more is expected.
 
9:15 PM
AFAIK Python won't give you compiler errors either for a missing method. (Because it doesn't compile.) How is that different.
 
@StackedCrooked It blows at runtime.
 
But the truth is that macs are so much more expensive, you can more than afford replacing it
 
Seriously, the whole anti-mac campaign in here is ridiculous. Sure, you can say that a Mac is expensive and I can agree. But don't say everything they do is crap, because it isn't
 
All Python implementations compile.
 
Cat was complaining Objective-C just does nothing at runtime, I believe.
 
9:15 PM
And in Python you can't detect that at compile time, but it does error out at runtime.
 
@LewsTherin you alive?
 
Obj-C runtime happily hacks away.
 
I do find that incredibly silly.
 
Who cares program is in inconsistent state now.
 
Nobody said that everything they do is crap, and there's no campaign
 
9:16 PM
Sounds a lot like something exception swallowers would love.
 
They're just horrendously expensive for relatively no benefit whatsoever
 
@DeadMG Didn't you say Mac was for half-brained guys with 1 finger?
Come on man
 
@CatPlusPlus I never found this to be a problem.
 
Everything I've seen about Macs or OSX makes me want to stay away from it.
 
@ManofOneWay That's clearly a joke on the mice.
 
9:17 PM
Yes, but that joke is only intended to amuse me
 
Starting from hardware price, going through OSX UI and ending on Objective-C.
 
OSX UI is the best I've ever used
Same goes for iOS
 
I've seen people not notice the global menu at all, that's how usable that is.
 
@ManofOneWay I've seen no Anti-Mac campaign, nor anybody saying everything the do is crap. StackedCrooked seemed to be saying costs were roughly comparable. Checking showed that wasn't so. You said it used a plastic chassis, but I don't see any evidence that this is true either. If anything, the two sides seem to break down as "Pro-Mac" and "attempting to be reasonably accurate and honest."
 
I created and maintainted this over a period of 1.5 years. It's mainly C++ and uses Objective-C only for the Mac view and controller. I didn't suffer from any of the problems you mentioned.
 
9:18 PM
and that is why the iPhone is such a success
 
It's terrible. The whole ui should be in one place.
The iPhone is a success because they were first to Market by years
 
and it has remained a success because the UI is so great everyone can use it
 
Going through terminal and cating files is faster and easier than doing anything in Finder.
 
The only question is whether it will be thrown out with Microsoft's trash or Google's trash
 
Hell, finding the app you just installed is a puzzle.
 
9:20 PM
@CatPlusPlus I don't like Finder either. I could navigate much faster in MS Explorer.
 
@CatPlusPlus then let me help you, to click on the finder and type the app name, "tadaa"
 
I haven't used iPhone, so can't tell anything about it. But I dislike the idea of a touch screen in general.
 
It has remained a success because the smartphone Market is expanding at such a rate that an established brand can't not succeed
 
Be it powered by iOS, Android or whatever new invention is.
My phone's battery holds for a week.
 
People want toys.
 
9:21 PM
That's all I need.
 
So they buy them, no matter what.
 
Touch is a big improvement. Its not for desktops, but good for phones.
 
I like to feel the keys.
 
Half the smartphone users here in Portugal use them to make calls.
And exhibit them to their friends, I guess. No one would pay so much just to make calls.
 
I like to have that space be productive the rest of the time.
 
9:22 PM
I even manage to type SMS fast enough these days, on the standard small phone keyboard.
 
I would say I much rather charge my phone every other night and have the luxury of viewing websites, listening to music, viewing my mail, using the GPS. Than to have it charged once a week, having T9 SMS and call function.
 
T9 sucks.
 
The screen being both display and input effectively doubles its area
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You can implement the missing method handler.
 
9:23 PM
I prefer to type what I want to type, not what AI thinks I want to type.
 
^very silly
 
@CatPlusPlus What do you have against AIs?
(T9 sucks, I agree.)
 
And screen. Meh. If there isn't incoming caller ID or SMS text, I only need the calendar and the time, really.
 
@CatPlusPlus That's just silly. You should try a smart phone first
 
Picked up my iPhone second hand very cheap. It's good for mobile browsing
 
9:24 PM
I carry a laptop every day these days.
 
@ManofOneWay You mean you only need it after you tried it?
 
Why on Earth would I want a smartphone?
 
Right now, I'm stuck in a hotel with no laptop or desktop
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You shouldn't complain about things that you have never used
 
Lol.
Now you sound like a Mac user.
 
9:25 PM
@ManofOneWay He's saying he doesn't need it.
 
Phones can make calls and browse on the much more prevalent mobile network
 
If he had a need for it, I would expect him to know it before he used that thing.
 
"You need to use it for X weeks, then you'll see you won't be able to live without it!"
That's treating the speaker like an idiot.
 
Laptops need the much rarer wifi
 
9:26 PM
Anything else is just silly forceful market creation.
 
Also, phone has GPS
 
Mobile Internet access is still too expensive for my taste.
 
And a second-hand smartphone is way cheaper and more reliable
 
We have hotspots scattered around the city.
 
My experience of laptops was theyre really fragile, but my iPhone is pretty duranle
 
9:27 PM
I have mine for a year and not a scratch on it.
 
My laptop once had a car over it.
 
Wait till you drop it in water whilst it's on a few times
 
I had to change the screen.
 
I don't even see how that's possible.
 
9:28 PM
How the fuck do you drop your laptop in water?
 
But okay.
I don't take it to the bathroom, in any case.
 
Uh, holes in the road/pavement + rain?
 
Er, what.
Are you running on a street with a laptop? :P
 
While it is on!
 
I've never dropped a laptop in my life.
It's my life, basically, how can you be so uncareful (and here cat forgets the proper word).
 
9:30 PM
I've had two iPhones and both of them got dust inside the screen. Very annoying.
 
Or spill water on it, or have a family member- or animal- spill something on it
 
@CatPlusPlus "Careless"?
 
@CatPlusPlus Neither have I. I do occasionally drop my phone though.
 
Yeah, that's the word!
Again, never did spill anything on any computer. I managed to spill few things onto standalone keyboards, but they like it.
 
Keyboards don't last long with me. I'm currently using my third keyboard in a 1 year period.
 
9:32 PM
lol
 
Lol
 
And I'd beat a person with a paper towel before they touch my computer.
Nobody touches my computers!
 
If those were common occurrences I would expect the market to have many water-proof laptops available.
 
The first one broke because I washed it with a wet soaped sponge. It contained too much water.
 
The Zone around it is forbidden.
 
9:33 PM
@StackedCrooked Good lord! What do you do to them? How cheap of keyboards do you get? (I'm currently using a Microsoft keyboard I bought in 2004 or so).
 
Sounds like my life with headphones. I throw them around and run over them with my chair
 
Headphones are a different matter.
 
Gosh, you people do horrible things to machines.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Panasonic sells those, if you're willing to pay for them (pretty expensive though).
 
They do dislike gravity.
 
9:33 PM
Then you fear hypothetical robot revolutions.
 
But my current ones are holding all right.
 
@JerryCoffin I washed the first one with water. The second probably contained food.
 
They actually last quite long. I buy the same every time, because all the others died in weeks
 
@JerryCoffin I'm not saying they don't exist, just that they are not easily available.
 
@JerryCoffin I have an old MS keyboard though that has been lasting 5+ years. I use it as a backup now.
 
9:34 PM
I washed keyboards 12 years ago. I don't bother now.
 
@StackedCrooked It takes a few days to dry afterward, but I semi-routinely run the keyboard through the dishwasher.
 
@StackedCrooked You can wash a keyboard with water, even soap, just make sure it's completely dry before plugging it back in
 
@Praetorian It was plugged in when I washed it.
 
Gosh, why?
 
9:35 PM
ROFL
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Right -- they're expensive enough that they're generally treated as fairly special purpose machines.
 
Ahh, you left out that minor detail :)
 
Dolphins need laptops, too.
 
They're the second most intelligent species after all.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes In order to detect the boundaries you need to cross them first. Now I know and won't do it again.
 
9:36 PM
Damn mice.
 
The first is PUPPIES
 
My puppies!
 
Kittens > puppies.
 
Pfffft, puppies are winrar
 
What the heck does that mean?
 
9:38 PM
Robots can easily crush puppies and feel no remorse.
 
They compress.
 
@Praetorian I think it's a silly spelling of "winner".
 
It's a bad kind of puppy!
 
It means that they compress and extract archives of various formats
 
Thanks, makes a lot more sense now
but we all know 7z > winrar, so maybe puppies should be 7z
 
9:39 PM
They uncompress food into a lot of poop.
 
WinRAR cannot be beaten. It has "Win" in the name.
 
WinZip.
 
GIGO is very similar to how the digestive system works.
 
WinAce
 
WinArj
 
9:41 PM
WinArr for the pirates
 
Or maybe it didn't exist.
 
@StackedCrooked No, that's WinRAR.
 
JihadRAR for the Muslims
 
Where did that come from?
 
9:42 PM
Also, did you know someone bought WinRAR?
 
MohammedRAR
 
Ok, I can see this is headed downhill quickly :)
 
The archives delete themselves when extracted
 
@DeadMG LOL
 
Someone's Law.
Or something.
 
9:43 PM
@CatPlusPlus Not yet.
 
Someone else's law: there's someone's law for that.
 
In BFBC2 there's actually a tactic called Jihad Jeeps
 
Godwin for Nazis.
 
Godwin's law should have been a template class.
 
Lol
 
9:46 PM
Reading TV Tropes is watching a movie before template instantiation.
 
Need to sleep, get better
Bai
 
Sleep is for weak and those without deadlines.
 
@CatPlusPlus how's the work progressing tonight?
 
When you are using namespace for some classes / struct, do you indent the whole class definition?

namespace n
{
class C{};
}
 
I don't
 
9:49 PM
I indent all the things.
 
It's really annoying to indent all functions just because of the namespace
 
@StackedCrooked It appears to be working. I'm looking for the references to the old system in the codebase, so it doesn't fail immediately.
 
I don't always indent,
but when I do I use a tab width of 8.
 
I don't have to indent anything.
 
I still need to write migrations, though.
 
9:50 PM
That's what text editors are for.
 
And that's going to be painful.
TW8 is waste of space.
4 forever!
 
I use 4
 
I've used 1 for the longest time.
 
What is TW8?
 
9:51 PM
Tab width 8?
 
Ok..seriously Java is a fucked up language. And the API is super fucked up.
 
So, what else is new?
 
what API?
 
Someone reached enlightenment.
 
Java
 
9:51 PM
Every API.
 
Java is not an API
 
At least, every API you didn't make.
 
All of IO, New IO, and New IO 2, at least.
 
@ManofOneWay I use leave the brace at the same line as the namespace declaration. (This is the only exception, normally I always put the brace on a new line.) This allows you to stack namespaces like this:
 
ugh, it is so easy to get lost in them
 
9:52 PM
I've heard date related stuff is, too.
 
@CatPlusPlus Don't talk about that!
 
I don't use Java enough, thankfully.
 
namespace A {
namespace B {

class MyClass
{
};

} } // namespace A::B
 
That thing gives me nightmares.
 
I still need to finish that silly CG program.
 
9:53 PM
Both Date (the original crappy API that was ported to JavaScript) and Calendar (the second crappy API).
 
As for indenting, I do indent namespace body.
 
I lost interest in Java when I heard Gosling's justification for not having unsigned numbers. He said most people he talked to didn't really know what an unsigned integer was, so he decided to exclude them
 
@CatPlusPlus Computer Graphics?
 
What is it about?
What is the assignment?
 
9:53 PM
It doesn't do much graphics, though, it's some introductory Java GUI bullshit.
 
Java GUI? Computer Graphics?
 
Haven't you got the memo? We need GUI for CG now.
 
I thought it was OpenGL and some nice shader coding
 
Hahaha.
 
9:54 PM
@Praetorian lol when my lecturer asked what data types are there in Java. I said unsigned int. He just looked at me said no ,and looked away... I wondered to myself apparently there is no unsigned int in Java..weird!
 
@CatPlusPlus I had a CG class three years ago.
And then two years ago.
And then last year again.
Never heard of needing GUIs for CG.
 
@Praetorian I've been burned by unsigned a few times. I don't think it wasn't a not-unwise decision. @CatPlusPlus
 
There was OpenGL mentioned on the lecture, but lab assignments don't include 3D AFAIR.
 
I wish someone would explain to me.. why I need to use setJMenuBar() to show the menu bar
 
@StackedCrooked More negations!
 
9:55 PM
OpenGL doesn't have to be 3d
 
@StackedCrooked It's all fine and dandy if you live in the Java world, talk to some hardware that wants to transfer bytes and then you have to jump through hoops
 
So you are using some Java API that uses OpenGL I guess?
 
@StackedCrooked At least byte should not have been signed.
 
2D part uses Java2D.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah.
 
9:56 PM
The last two lectures were showcases of silly demos.
And I was all like "I can read the docs, thank you".
 
But is it a CG course ? Because then it's a real fail
 
@Praetorian C++ needs unsigned, yes.
 
It's called a CG course.
 
Sounds like a UI course
 
There are some algorithms involved in the second and third assignments.
But it still requires an UI.
 
9:58 PM
We were taught that the model should contain a pointer to the view.
 
Writing to files is passe, it would seem.
I cringe every time I hear "MVC".
I've spent so much time trying to understand it, then trying to apply it, and then I just facepalm immensely.
 
@CatPlusPlus same here!
I don't think MVC is correct.
 
@StackedCrooked I wasn't talking about C++. I once made the idiotic decision to write a Java wrapper for a USB adapter. Thought it'd be fun to play with JNI. That was the first and last time I ever do that, if I can help it
 
Although MVC is a rather nice pattern?
When making UI apps it's great for abstraction
 

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