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8:00 PM
3. Claiming ownership of a function argument.
 
Pretty much every use of non-copyable objects.
There are very little corner cases where you need non-movable objects.
 
@StackedCrooked The alternative is making copies. So it avoids that.
 
@LucDanton I understand that.
 
@StackedCrooked One is containers that store items that can't be copied (e.g., if you're doing a merge sort, a vector<istream> works pretty nicely).
 
@JerryCoffin nice!
@JerryCoffin Wait, vector<istream>?
How does that work?
 
8:09 PM
It's a vector with streams in it?
 
How can it be used for doing merge sort?
Or is it just a random example of a non-copyable type?
 
> Opening an OpenGL window is done with the glfwOpenWindow function. The function takes nine arguments (...)
 
@StackedCrooked Let's say you're going to sort a file that's a couple of terabytes. You start by reading in as much data as you can fit into memory. You sort that, and write it out to a file. Then you read another chunk and write it to the next file, and so on until all the data is in sorted chunks. You then open all those files, read a record from each, write the smallest of those records to the output file, read another record from that file, and repeat until EOF on all the intermediate files.
 
This list is always is bit overwhelming: boost.org/doc/libs
 
@CatPlusPlus What.
 
8:15 PM
The more things in Boost, the less searching you have to do every time.
 
That's note the only possible merge pattern, of course, but I think it gives an idea of how you'd put the collection of istreams to use.
 
I think you did right by stopping at nine arguments.
 
All those frameworks either are in C, suck or do both at the same time.
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
 
Even in C you could make it not that sucky.
Just make a Window structure, dammit!
 
C code without global state? I don't even.
 
8:17 PM
@JerryCoffin Yeah, right.
 
@JerryCoffin I see. It's not a common use-case but I see how it's handy to have move-semantics here.
int main() {
#include "everything.h"
// now it's no longer global
}
 
> It is also possible to request a speciļ¬c minimum OpenGL version, multisampling anti-aliasing, an accumulation buffer, stereo rendering and more by using the glfwOpenWindowHint function
Globaaals.
 
Oh my, how many params does that have?
 
@StackedCrooked Not common, but one I've wished for in the past (ended up having to use pointers to the istreams, for no particularly good reason except that there was no workable alternative).
 
8:19 PM
No, really, why can't anyone do a good GL framework.
 
Because game programmers don't know C++?
 
I want to do it myself, but it'll probably suck, too.
Unless anyone would be interested in a project? :P
 
@CatPlusPlus It is something I've wished for, and even considered working on. There are enough use cases that I think it's a fairly hard problem to solve very well for everybody who needs it.
 
@CatPlusPlus Sounds cool.
I love wrapping C code in C++.
From the bottom up.
Without encapsulating the original library away.
Only enhance it.
 
Enhance! Uncrop!
 
8:22 PM
lol
I said I was going to buy food about an hour ago. Stomach is complaining hard now. I'll be back.
 
Id rather work with DX
 
I want cross-platformity and am too lazy to support both.
 
Eh, OGL isn't compatible directly with consoles anyway and Linux/mac is a really tiny proportion of pc games
 
I couldn't care less about consoles, really.
 
Windows games are often ported to Mac using a Windows emulator.. I forgot the name of it.
 
8:31 PM
Cons
 
CrossOver
 
It's not that hard to support all three, if you plan for it from the start.
 
It's not that it's hard, it's that there's no point
The games markets on Linux and mac are even tinier than their tiny share of the regular OS market
 
Don't underestimate cross-platform development. I am playing a port of Dragon Age on my Mac. It mysteriously slows down in one part of the game. It does not have this behavior on Windows. Issues like that can occur and are hard to predict.
 
Well, that's because OSX sucks.
 
8:34 PM
No, that's because the game has been extensively tested on Windows and only later ported to Mac.
 
And the Linux drivers for hardware suck terribly, too
 
The performance tweaks that work on Windows don't necessarily work on Mac.
@DeadMG yes.
 
At least, I personally have never used them. But they are legendary.
 
@CatPlusPlus This is where tools Jenkins are useful. If you commit on one platform the code gets automatically checked out and recompiled on the different platforms. Build errors for different platforms become visible quickly.
 
Yeah, but Linux users are even more willing to pay for native games than OSX users. :P
 
8:37 PM
As far as the PC Market goes, most developers don't justify the expense of Mac and Linux games
 
@StackedCrooked I know about CI, thank you. And Buildbot is better, anyway. :P
Indie devs do.
 
And they already have cross-platform engines and architectures to port to consoles anyway
 
I'm a Mac user but I have Windows on a second partition for games.
@CatPlusPlus This is something I only learned about recently. Sorry if it's old news for you :)
 
The hardest part is getting OSX build slave.
 
It's true, a relatively large indie scene is for all PC platforms
But whether or not the return is worth it for them is another question
 
8:40 PM
@DeadMG Monetarily, probably not. But it's a fair guess that most aren't really doing it for the money anyway.
 
Well, if Humble Bundle stats are any indicator, yes, it is.
 
@CatPlusPlus You need mac hardware. AFAIK OS X can't be virtualized on regular machines.
 
Humble bundle is the exception, not the rule.
 
@StackedCrooked Yes, that's the hard part. And it can be virtualised without much trouble, it's just not license-happy. :P
 
@StackedCrooked In theory it could be, but in reality, the market for it is far too tiny (and Apple far to lawsuit-prone) for anybody to bother.
 
8:41 PM
But VM is sloow.
 
Btw, I've been using Linux at work for about 1.5 years now. I think Linux desktop sucks.
 
VMware can run OSX on any hardware with tiny mods.
Apple told them to block it on non-Apple hardware, but people figured out how to unblock it, obviously.
 
@JerryCoffin If you use virtualize OS X internally to automate builds and stuff I don't expect much trouble from Apple layers since they won't know. But yes, it isn't 'correct'.
 
But it's really slow.
 
Another reason to not go for Mac
Linux, at least, it'd be free to test on
 
8:44 PM
My Mac (i7) is not slow.
Linux dekstop is horribly slow! Launching text editor often takes 4+ seconds.
 
I bet you paid way more than for my i7
 
I don't disagree that Macs are more expensive.
I disagree that they are slow. I can't speak for virtualized Mac though.
 
One of the things that gets me. I can hardly afford free Windows and current hardware.
 
@DeadMG When I was a student I bought my components at the cheapest shops and assembled my PC myself. Now I've become lazy and just bought an all in one package. Also because my monitor was broken so I needed both a pc and a monitor.
 
But then, I could just get a job :p
 
8:47 PM
Jobs suck.
 
My job is fairly satisfying.
 
I'd rather not get a job stacking shelves in a supermarket
 
Because I am allowed to make design decisions, not always, but often.
@DeadMG I used to work in a fish factory. I'd take shelf stacking over that any time.
 
True true
 
I had to get up at 2 AM in order to arrive there at 4 AM. (It was a one hour bike ride.)
 
8:50 PM
But ideally, I'd get a software-related job
 
@DeadMG YES. It felt like heaven when I got my first real job.
 
Not that anyone here would hire me :p
 
@DeadMG I'd hire you if I could.
 
@StackedCrooked You can look at it from either direction: either they're expensive for what you get, or slow for what you pay.
 
I just wonder if you'd be willing work in a code-base that is less than perfect in your eyes. Without rewriting it from scratch.
 
8:52 PM
Well, I've been looking around passively, and at this rate, I'm gonna have to hire myself
Well, just let me poke the new parts and let someone else do the maintenance :p
I'd much rather work with a less-than-ideal codebase than none at all
 
@JerryCoffin I'm not really aware of the prices of the components currently. But I think that iMac is not unreasonably overpriced. See store.apple.com/us/configure/MC814LL/… for a high-end model.
 
Not stupid enough to think that my current perfectionism is scalable
 
I wish I had the inspiration to create iPhone applications that sell.
 
Then check components again
 
I wouldn't want to code entire apps in Obj-C for any amount of money.
 
8:56 PM
Holy shit, that stuff is overpriced
I mean, you can buy 16GB of RAM here for about $120
 
@CatPlusPlus You can program in C++ and only use Objective-C for interfacing with the API. The compiler also supports Objective-C++.
 
@LewsTherin what's up Lady gaga?
 
Apple want to add $600? That's obscene
Hard drive prices are the same kind of story
And a hundred bucks for 1GB VRAM? What kind of idiot do they take me for?
Judging by that, an iMac at the same specs as my base unit could cost ~4x or more
 
I'll have to trust your judgment as I'm not aware of the current prices.
Don't forget to include the 27" monitor.
 
That's a fair enough point
 

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