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10:06 AM
ok self-posted q/a
about that
just 1 upvote and 40k
 
cabbage [pronounced in a French way]
 
question: can I write about actually useful topics like "using celery with Django" in SO docs.
 
rhymes with baggage?
@khajvah is that useful?
 
@AnttiHaapala only if you mean baggage pronounced in a French way;)
 
@AnttiHaapala maybe not that but even more specific which is not documented anywhere
 
10:13 AM
:D
 
@khajvah the fun thing about SOD is that you can write anything and odds are it will be approved and upvoted no matter how bad or useless it is
so, thumbs up
 
just like those old SO questions
 
If you have a piece of useful information that's hard to piece together from the official docs, you should go for it. This is the very narrow niche of SOD that's not utterly pointless/harmful for python.
 
@AndrasDeak bagages that is
 
@AndrasDeak yeah that's what I meant in the beginning
 
10:16 AM
@AnttiHaapala yes!
 
gabages? :D
 
cabages:D
I'm mildy worried that Fizzy will annihilate me for abusing his favourite language, but I like to live dangerously.
 
Why don't you use decimal.localcontext? with localcontext() as ctx: ctx.prec = 20; d1 = Decimal(str(f))Bakuriu 57 secs ago
@Bakuriu why would I, it can only be slower — Antti Haapala 1 min ago
 
Straw poll #2: if I expose a web service via OAuth, and a client wants to connect from two servers that they load balance in the same application, should I get them to use the same client id and client secret, and they should figure out sharing the access and refresh token amongst themselves, or should each server get their own client id, client secret, access and refresh tokens?
 
ha? 1 client_id/secret of course tokens of course.
access tokes could be server-sticky though
 
10:24 AM
So yeah, that makes sense to me as well
It's actually the reverse position; I'm the consuming application and I'm being told the two servers should synchronise between themselves the access and refresh tokens. This seems a lot of complexity to go through rather than issuing unique access/refreshes per server
 
one-to-one official documentation copy
I downvoted
 
@khajvah don't downvote; delete if it's plagiarized
 
@MartijnPieters Mmm, just looking around, that error is Windows specific (WSAECONNRESET). As it's "connection reset by peer", but the far end is OK, I'm very much suspecting that it's some kind of firewall problem as per your comment. Going to ask the OP whether they can actually browse to that using a browser...
 
@AndrasDeak It was deleted by somebody
the best thing is that it had an upvote
 
I should do more of these self-answered quesitons, would hit repcap more often
 
10:30 AM
JGreenwell found tkinter examples in an nltk topic with 5 upvotes
@AnttiHaapala unless Martijn downvotes them:P
 
@AnttiHaapala self-answered questions should go to docs :P
 
@khajvah you seem to confuse docs with docs
 
@AndrasDeak xD
 
@AndrasDeak nltk stands for "NederLandse TK". It is the Dutch port of TK by Guido.
Condensed it into one for easier starring :D
 
10:34 AM
:P
 
From U & L "My laptop contained a UEFI dual-boot system. I sent it out for hardware repairs and the dealer has reinstalled Windows 8 and, for good measure, wiped all Linux partitions (incidentally, without asking about the opportunity of it)."
 
umm...you don't send non-backed-up hard drives to repairs...
 
@PM2Ring that is the standard practice
 
or maybe that's a Hungarian thing
I created a backup and encrypted my home before letting it out of my hands:D
 
@AndrasDeak I agree, but I don't think the OP would appreciate that advice right now. :)
 
10:38 AM
@PM2Ring yyyeaaah....I agree
 
why do you send your computer for repairs?!
 
you "encrypted your home"? I have to admit to being curious :)
 
is it like you can't repair your computer?
 
@AnttiHaapala my fan failed during warranty
 
there are 2 options: repair your own computer or get them to come to your home to fix it.
those are the only acceptable ones.
 
10:39 AM
and inspirons have a "return to base" warranty (never again!)
 
@AnttiHaapala now you've got me thinking that I'm being unreasonable
 
I fscking remember having a consumer asus laptop for work computer (thanks Mikko)
 
fscking consumers:P
 
@RobertGrant which one:?
 
About the access and refresh tokens
Ie they shouldn't care if I'm clustered or not
 
10:40 AM
so, it had some problem during the warranty period, had to send it to the Netherlands
@RobertGrant but they should be sticky probably if you expect multiple consumers
caches and such would work better then (I guess...) D:
 
Yeah so we do have a shared cache between the servers, but I like shared nothing where possible
Especially when either server could hit the endpoint and refresh the token
 
ah I ma not sure any longer what you're talking about
 
I've got a system that has two middleware servers that serve a frontend. One of the thing the middleware does is query an OAuth2-secured endpoint.
 
Still, you don't expect the dealer to reformat your drive when they're doing a hardware repair, unless the hardware problem is directly related to the HD.
Sure, the dealer may have wanted to re-install drivers for the problem hardware, but that's no excuse to do a full OS re-install, and even if he was too lazy to just re-install the required drivers why couldn't he do a repair install to the existing partition instead of nuking the whole drive. I certainly wouldn't have much confidence in a dealer who did that sort of thing.
 
Either server can hit the endpoint at any time, and potentially cause a refresh of a token that's just expired
If the two systems share access and refresh tokens, then if they both hit at the same time then one will refresh and the other will fail
If they have independent ones then they can each refresh whenever they want to
 
10:46 AM
@PM2Ring you should buy a new computer
there is no "repair installs to existing partitions"
 
@PM2Ring +1
 
the OEM windows "repair" nowadays always reformats the whole hard disk
 
Seems crazy though; why?
 
because microsoft cannot do any better
 
@AnttiHaapala Ah, rightio. I rarely use Windows these days, and I haven't used any of the system repair stuff since XP, on a non-OEM machine.
 
10:49 AM
@AnttiHaapala maybe they want you to back up to OneDrive :)
 
@PM2Ring I'm sure the guy who did it was the top of his league, real expert and whatnot:P
 
@PM2Ring exactly
 
not just a brainless thrall pressing buttons
 
I want to poke all those people who say "windows is so easy" with a pencil in their left eye.
 
"Making sure customer's data is intact? Not my fucking job."
@AnttiHaapala microsoft won't do any better
 
10:50 AM
because windows can't repair itself, period.
 
@RobertGrant Blindly assuming that nothing exists apart from Windows is the Microsoft Way. And nuking the HD is a simple way to screw up Linux users...
 
letting you use other OSes is unthinkable
 
I needed to fix windows, I had to use linux.
 
@PM2Ring what about all my Word documents?
 
Jul 29 at 20:21, by Antti Haapala
how do people fix windows without linux?!?
 
10:51 AM
@RobertGrant They may have had viruses in their macros, so they had to be destroyed. :)
 
Even MS acknowledges that latex is the only way to go.
 
hmm some new research says that Finns originally travelled to current Finland via China.
 
@AnttiHaapala wat
New stupid research? Or smart one?
 
@AndrasDeak so many jokes
 
dunno :D
 
10:54 AM
@RobertGrant :D
 
dna research
 
@AnttiHaapala aaah...so Finnish DNA came from China...makes more sense
And I guess it got there from a meteorite.
 
Is chat.SO on a different server to main?
 
Finns are the odd people...
 
10:56 AM
@Ffisegydd I'm pretty sure
usually when main is down, chat is fine
 
like in the current America, the "Swedish" people on the frontier were ethnic Finns
 
unless those issues are database-related or something...
 
rather sided with the Natives than those pesky Europeans, pfft :D
 
@AndrasDeak:
> An early example, from ~1640s judging from reference to New Sweden (1638-1655), mentioned in Wars of the Iroquois: A Study in Intertribal Trade Relations, by George T. Hunt:

> The Susquehannah, to the south*, naturally traded with the near-by colony of New Sweden. Moreover, they were powerful and well armed, even having small cannon in their forts and being instructed in their use and in the use of small arms by the Swedes.
though of course they weren't ethnic Swedes but Forest Finns.
 
10:59 AM
I have a new project to work on \o/ and it's probably the coolest one yet (see @Rob, you should join the promised land)
 
@AnttiHaapala and why would a Finn claim to be a Swede?:D Or was it "close enough" out there?
@Ffisegydd does it have...data?
 
they lived in the kingdom of sweden
 
@AndrasDeak Who knows? (I do)
 
@AnttiHaapala ooooh, I see. Before the Russians liberated them, right?
 
exactly
In Oulu, in 19th century they used to sing christmas songs in the name of Tsar Alexander II, Grand Duke of Finland ~"who took away the slavery/serfdom, and the tyrant and will defeat all hostile countries (= Poland and Sweden and such), so let all people of Finland rejoice as you've been relieved of your troubles"
 
11:09 AM
@Ffisegydd FINE I'll come work with you
Do I get a team jacket?
 
heh:D
 
*not ", and the tyrant" but who removed the tyrant, damnit
 
@RobertGrant Sure, why not.
I'll buy you a jacket and a steak if you come work here.
 
life hack: add the bel character (^G) to your psql prompt. Then when your query returns, i3wm will highlight the workspace number for you so you don't have to keep checking
 
Actually tempted. Perhaps I should visit your office and sample the steak.
 
11:14 AM
@WayneWerner wohoo :D
nice
 
Course as soon as I'm installed you'll leave and go to Facebook with Martijn, don't think I don't know that.
 
@WayneWerner I will share my hack with you
 
@Robert nah don't be silly. The referral bonus requires you to work for the company for 6 months.
 
\set AUTOCOMMIT off
\set ON_ERROR_ROLLBACK interactive
\set PROMPT1 '%[%033[1m%][%[%033[31m%]%x%[%033[37m%]%[%033[32m%]%/%[%033[37m%]@%[%033[33m%]%M%[%033[37m%]]%[%033[0m%]\n%# '
\set PROMPT2 ' %R%# '
@WayneWerner ^
everything is in transaction always
dirty transaction shown in the prompt by red *
some more silly colors
 
Nice
 
11:16 AM
errors in writing rollback only the exact query, not the transactoin
so I can do whatever I do and then I am like "oh fsck"
 
I have the rollback interactive, but not the autocommit off
 
then quit, no changes persisted
the problem with that is that if you use psql non-interactively you must not use that setting (autocommit off) :D
 
ah. I do do that on occasion ;)
 
otherwise psql < dump is not really going to do anything
 
There's a new Kaggle competition that I'm interested, sounds the Horn Of Helm Hammerdata
 
11:18 AM
Hi. I don't need to know how because I'd like to work that out on my own. What I'd like to know though is whether or not it is possible to sort a string objects of an arbitrary length without using any extra space?
 
@Ffisegydd ah forgot the puppy competition, how did you do?
 
That is theoretically speaking
 
291st out of 2000 or so. I got distracted by other stuff and stopped submitting, so could have potentially done better. Top 20% so eh.
 
@MoonOwl22 define "extra space"
yes it is possible to sort strings of arbitrary lengths without any extra space provided that you've got enough CPU registers.
 
This new one is a ranking competition though, which I'm more interested in, because ranking.
 
11:19 AM
@AnttiHaapala No binding of any new objects
 
@MoonOwl22 you mean a list of strings? e.g. ['foo', 'bar', 'bang'] => ['bang', 'bar', 'foo']?
@MoonOwl22 or did you just mean sorting a string?
 
@WayneWerner It can be a list of strings or a string
 
a string cannot be modified
 
cause, the latter in Python, no
definitely not
 
so obviously not that
 
11:20 AM
Okay then. A list of objects
 
because what Antti said :)
 
You can sort them based on their hash
 
Anyone interested in entering this please let me know.
 
python does comparison sorting
none of that requires extra space
 
But does the implementation use extra space?
Let me look up it's source
 
11:22 AM
@Ffisegydd think about it, someone at redhat is paid for organizing this competition
and they receive a bonus for utilizing the results :D
@MoonOwl22 it does
it is an algorithm called timsort, it uses O(lg N) extra space
 
So I can't use it
 
internally.
 
I have spent days trying to solve a problem that's caused me to cry
 
anyhow, what silly restriction is that?
 
I've suggested individual access tokens; I'll see what they say
 
DSM
11:24 AM
Breakfast cabbage.
 
The problem I have is a reverse problem. However, I predict that if I can sort without extra space, then I can reverse because to me reversing is a special case of sorting.
Let me share the problem with you
 
DSM
If you agree that you can compare two strings without "extra space", then you could just loop over every permutation and see if it's sorted. Inefficient, but straightforward.
 
How can you sort according to hash if you can't use any space to hash it in?
 
Crap you are right
Jump to Task 3
I don't want to know the actual solution. I want to know if it is possible at all
 
If you can use bitwise operations then you can
 
11:28 AM
I have spent days trying to work this out and I must have a serious misconception
 
It turns out Gmail marks as spam the emails with no subject
 
DSM
@MoonOwl22: I'm not following. You think there's an error in your assignment so that they're asking you for something impossible?
 
@DSM Yes
 
Which it looks like may be the point of that exercise - and that they're not talking about doing things within the confines of Python
at least I didn't see any Python mentions there
 
@MoonOwl22 I like the assignment
 
11:30 AM
Of course not, but if I can code it, I can write int in Python
 
you'd have to convert your string to a bytearray first, since those are mutable, and simply define the bytearray as "the string"
 
DSM
Thinking of reversing as a special case of sorting seems like the wrong way to look at it.
 
I view reversing as worst-case sorting
 
that would actually best case sorting
 
DSM
Let me be more explicit: that's a silly way to look at it. :-)
 
11:34 AM
because a reverse only takes one pass
any other sorting algorithm is going to take what, O(log n) passes, at best, on average?
 
I think that's dependent on the algorithm being used. I'm sorry I've made a few reckless claims
 
And you can certainly reverse in-place with no extra storage required.
 
Hm. I guess when it comes to sorting with no extra storage... does that ignore your pointers/storing the indexes?
 
No
@PM2Ring So that means I need to get some coffee, play some sudoku and figure this out
 
You could do it, though it's probably the second most inefficient sorting... unless you're using a tape drive ;)
 
11:37 AM
@WayneWerner depends on the sorting algorithm
 
:looks at assignment: Ok. That's impossible in Python because strings are immutable, so any string modification requires creating a new string.
 
Not too sure what to think when someone called “SuperBiasedMan” rejects your docs edit…
 
Thank you very much, guys
 
yeah these kind of assignments are meant to be done with C
 
@khajvah if you can't store indexes.... I don't really think it's possible to implement any other algorithm, is it?
 
DSM
11:39 AM
But the question is in a TM context, so really Python doesn't come into play.
 
hold on, I think I am out of context
yean nvm
 
It can be done with any language that is Turing complete
Hence why I'm using Python for my brainstorming with a list of arbitrary objects of arbitrary length
 
then the assignment description is not very good
 
That assignment is fairly easy in C, assuming the "no extra space" restriction just applies to the string itself, i.e. you are allowed to use a local int to hold an index, and maybe one for the string length. An extra char (i.e. a single byte) to do the swapping with would be nice, but it's not strictly necessary.
 
It's easy once you can hold a variable in extra memory because you don't really want to overwrite the tape without having the original stuff somewhere
There is a solution to this but I'm not thinking enough and that's a problem. Thanks very much, guys
 
11:47 AM
There's a well-known "trick" to swap 2 integers with no additional storage. You could use it in C to swap chars in a string...
 
@PM2Ring ah, the old xor trick
 
Exactly.
>>> a, b = 42, 77; a ^= b; b ^= a; a ^= b; print(a, b)
77 42
 
that's one of my favorites
 
I've even implemented the XOR swap trick in Conway's Life as a way of allowing 2 streams of gliders to cross over each other. Sadly, it ended up being much bulkier than a crossover mechanism that had been engineered years earlier.
 
DSM
O.o
 
11:56 AM
nice
 
new episode of Hardcore History!
 
is youtube being broken for anyone else?
 
Ok for me (tunneled through netherlands atm)
 
doesn't look like it
(i.e. seems to work fine)
 
12:09 PM
@WayneWerner Doing logic circuits in Life is fun. :) There are various ways to do it, but the basic way is to use the output of a glider gun as a stream of 1 bits, and you delete gliders from the stream to make 0 bits.
 
galaxy note 7 is sexy
 
I've seen some pretty impressive GoL patterns.
 
Yeah, some of them are mind-blowing. I've made some interesting things, but mostly just by plumbing together bits & pieces created / discovered by others, I've made very few original things in Life of any significance.
Still, I can claim to be the 1st person to engineer a Life pattern that computes Fibonacci numbers in binary. :)
But anyway, I'm sure I've babbled about this stuff here some time in the past. :)
But before I shut up, I'll just mention that if you have 2 glider streams, A and B, if you arrange them so that the gliders collide in a vanish reaction, then the collision acts as a 2-input, 2-output gate, with the old A stream becoming A &~B, and the old B stream becoming B & ~A. From that basis you can build any logic gate, hence GoL is Turing-complete. FWIW, here's a link to Dean Hickerson's glider crossover I alluded to earlier.
 
user559633
12:27 PM
PM2Ring, please never feel like you should shut up
 
Thanks, Tristan. I love talking about GoL stuff, but I don't want to flood the room with it. :)
 
they implemented turing machine rendell-attic.org/gol/tm.htm
 
@khajvah There's also been work done on universal constructors: patterns that can build other patterns based on instructions stored on a "tape". One impressive example is Gemini: a "spaceship" that moves by constructing a new copy of itself & then destroying itself.
 
12:52 PM
@tristan +1
@corvid my wife was excited when I started looking at pots in IKEA. Then she was disappointed to see that I was only looking for a Faraday cage to put my phone into for testing purposes.
5
 
@AndrasDeak IKEA is the best/worst
 
user559633
IKEA aka the marriage testing ground
 
Jul 3 '15 at 13:06, by PM 2Ring
Faraday was awesome. FWIW, in my youth I helped build a high-voltage Faraday cage at the Lane Cove Testing Station. I think this is a picture of it in action:
 
> This is rubbish. Background sync lets you do better.
that's just well-written documentation
also it links to cat videos, so, there's that
 
user559633
Come in to get a FLØRB, leave feeling like you spent the day in a poorly constructed thunderdome
 
12:58 PM
The other day I had an idea for an implementation of the Game of Life where two of the cells on the field act like wormholes: you determine the alive/dead state of cell A by observing the neighbors of cell B, N ticks in the past. And you determine the alive/dead state of cell B by observing the neighbors of cell A, N ticks in the future.
How you can determine the future state of cells, is an open question. Obviously you can't just evaluate the state of the field for time T=0, T=1, T=2... sequentially, because T=M depends on both T=M-N and T=M+N.
 
@Kevin wow, much acausality.
@Kevin solving for that self-consistently...should be fun
 
I'm imagining you'd have to express the whole field as a system of equations, then solve for one or more solutions.
Although if we don't put an upper limit on time, then it's a system of an infinite number of equations.
 
well you can probably work within a certain light cone
or something
I don't actually know what I'm talking about, but I'd expect acausal correlations to be bounded in time
 
It's probably really computationally expensive to simulate this kind of thing. You can build a computer in regular Life. If you add in a wormhole, you can solve NP-hard questions in O(1) time.
 
but I'm pretty sure one of the beauties of game of life is the markovianness
 
1:03 PM
So I'm assuming simulating N ticks of WormholeLife must be polynomial W.R.T. N.
At the very least.
 
wormholes and polynomial don't mix
I hope it's O(N↑↑↑↑N)
 
Morning cabbage.
 
cabbage
 
@Kevin Well, you're just shifting the NP-ness to the calculations that determine the self-consistent board state.
 
Yeah.
Although, Andras has a point about light cones. Life has a well-defined c. If the wormholes are farther than c*N squares apart, then you can't send signals arbitrarily far back in time.
Which might drop the computation from O(ludicrous) to O(big)
 
1:09 PM
@Ffisegydd I have little to none knowledge about "data science" but I would love to help.
 
@khajvah are you good at shaping letters with your body and waving pom-poms? ;)
 
that's my hobby but nothing professional :D
I want to become a cool kid doing science with data
 
25 $k is a reasonable incentive, too!
 
I don't want money, since I don't know anything about this stuff
 
One approach I thought of was: Evaluate ticks sequentially, assuming that the answer to "what is the state of cell A in the future?" is always "dead". We call this execution 0. Then, start over from T=0, evaluating ticks sequentially, assuming that the answer to "what is the state of cell A in the future" is "whatever its state is at that time/space in execution 0". We call this execution 1. And so on: in execution Q, you look at execution Q-1 when you need to know information about the future.
 
1:15 PM
Very noble, but in my experience it is useful.
 
Computation in Life isn't exactly fast. The simple binary adder (which I use in my Fibonacci and Collatz sequence generators) processes P60 glider streams, i.e., it takes 60 ticks for a glider to move to the position currently occupied by the glider ahead of it. The adder has a delay of only 10 periods, but that's still 600 ticks.
The complete period of my Fibonacci pattern is 2100 ticks; I could've made it a bit faster, but I wanted it to be able to handle fairly large numbers before overflow errors set in.
 
This, I think, would have two different possible outcomes: 1) eventually, behavior converges so that execution X and execution X+1 are identical, or 2) eventually, behavior oscillates so that execution X and execution X+2 are identical, but distinct from execution X-1 and execution X+1, which are identical with each other.
Or, not necessarily X and X+2. Cycles could be much larger than 2.
 
@JRichardSnape I think "this stuff" meant data science, not money:D
unless you were joking, in which case sorry
 
OTOH, a Life pattern that uses a programmable calculator (based on the UTM linked to earlier by khajvah) to do Fibonacci takes over a million ticks per Fibonacci number generated. However, unlike my pattern it has no limit on the bit length of the numbers it processes.
And modern Life engines like Golly can easily do huge numbers of generations per second on patterns that contain lots of repetition in space &/or time. This is accomplished through the use of the hashlife algorithm which uses hashing to detect previously seen patterns so they don't need to be recomputed.
 
1:23 PM
@AndrasDeak no need for apology, but you can assume 90% of my output is joking, of which about 10% hit the target.
 
On second thought, I think it's also possible that executions diverge in behavior forever. Assuming the fields are unbounded in space.
 
@Kevin Yeah, that could work. If you're serious about this you could discuss it on the ConwayLife forum. Most interest there is in traditional Life, but discussion of GoL variants and other cellular automata is permitted.
 
Consider a field that contains a computer with this behavior: watch the "sends stuff from future" wormhole and interpret any alive/dead signals as the digits of a number. Then increment that number by one and transmit the new number through the "sends stuff to the past" wormhole.
 
Well, you're not going to get a consistent state doing stuff like that. :)
Unless you get back an encoded message: "Do not attempt to meddle with the structure of time". :)
 
Yeah. This "multiple execution" approach is like Hollywood time travel, where you can step on a bug in the past and the future changes. I want single-unchanged-timeline behavior.
 
1:33 PM
I suspect there are wormholes which cause "All Dead" to be the only possibility.
 
The easiest provably self-consistent state is: everything is dead, everywhere everywhen.
 
I guess you could drop a localized flipper far away and it'd be fine. I mean the wormhole dot.
 
Yeah. any field where nothing ever even approaches the wormhole is also self-consistent.
Although it might get tricky to prove that nothing approaches the wormhole even after a huge number of ticks
 
I should have said, there probably exists a configuration where the wormhole and placement of dots is a contradiction.
This is actually a really neat problem. You can't simulate every possible reality and look for the contradiction disqualifying the reality because you would have to look forever into the future for it.
 
I don't know if anyone's ever attempted doing time-shifts like this in Life before, so you might attract a fair bit of interest on the forum. OTOH, investigating the stability of patterns on cylindrical or toroidal fields has been a fruitful technique for discovering interesting stuff.
 
1:40 PM
If you're saying "it may be possible that, given the state of all cells at T=0, there is no self-consistent solution, no matter what comes through the from-the-future wormhole", I think I agree with you.
 
That's what I meant.
Why not go that extra mile and write a real life simulator then add time travel? We know that's the real question here.
 
Good point. a GOL time travel simulator is already crazy difficult, so an actual-real-life simulator would only be slightly more crazy difficult.
 
@Kevin I'll go out on a limb and say that I expect a lot of self-consistent solutions to exist. Only insanely difficult to find.
 
We just have to hack Dwarf Fortress to add time travel and childhood mental development. That should be good enough for Prod.
 
although if your wormhole is a single cell in size, it would probably break down propagating constructs...
a stargate-esque gateway would be much more interesting
 
1:46 PM
Although, GoL "physics" is vastly simpler than real-world physics, in one sense it's a bit trickier. All elementary interactions in the real world are time-reversible, but that's not the case in GoL. This makes it really quite hard to run GoL patterns backwards.
 
hmm...if someone deletes an answer (which you downvoted) do you get that rep point back? I got +1 rep and that's the only thing I could figure
 
Wouldn't it be impossible to turn back the clock on GoL? There are Garden of Eden configurations where you can't go backwards.
 
but at the simplest level that's equitemporal movement between spatially separated points
@QuestionC there's loss of information, so no unique solution exists back in time
if two objects annihilate each other, the resulting state is dead
 
@JGreenwell Yes, you get your rep back.
 
ah, thanks. was curious
 
1:49 PM
conversely, you could expect infinitely many things to pop out of empty space if you try to predict the past of a dead state
 
That doesn't make it impossible though. You could just select one of the possible states and go with that.
 
@JGreenwell you can even tick "show deleted posts" in your rep history tab, it should list both the -1 and he +1 there
 
What makes it impossible is Game of Life has configurations which can only be reached in the first state.
Gardens of Eden.
 
@QuestionC yes, there are nigh-infinitely many arbitrary states you can choose
Actual state: global eternal death. Predicted state: global eternal death, or an arbitrary combination of objects that eventually annihilate each other.
 
@QuestionC The number of possible states rapidly becomes vast when going in reverse, even if you neglect most of the dead area away from your region of interest.
FWIW, there's a pattern called Star gate which appears to "teleport" spaceships at 15c/14.
 
1:53 PM
this game is insane
 
So what's the catch? It can't actually exceed c, right?
 
I think it's like a metamaterial
 
Otherwise, they'd just update c so it exactly matched it.
 
it consumes the incoming object and spews it out on the other side
 
Reading the wikipedia entry on this stuff has resulted in a book suggestion, Permutation City. I think it's about a guy writing a simulator to prove he is living in a simulation.
 
@AndrasDeak That sounds like the old "what if you had a perfectly rigid pole that was one light year long and pushed on it, wouldn't the other end a light-year away move instantaneously?" thought experiment
 
top and bottom lines in sync before, out of sync after
@Kevin no, it's just an illusion
 
Which is usually defeated by saying "there's no such thing as a perfectly rigid pole" and/or incomprehensible handwaving about length contraction
 
like currently working invisibility cloaks
 
Finally fixed the list of upgrade sources in this ancient ubuntu box I've been asked to upgrade. I have some sympathy with the "Linux is too hard to configure" brigade right now.
 
1:56 PM
they disturb EM radiation around the object to veil, and reconstruct the wave form after it
non-local observers can't tell anything happened in between
 
@AndrasDeak Basically. A spaceship comes in at the left & catalyses the synthesis by 3 gliders of a new spaceship that leaves at the right. If the spaceship doesn't arrive, the gliders simply wipe each other out. Of course, the alignment & timing of the input spaceship has to be exact.
 
Linux is hard to configure but Windows is not configurable after a certain point
 
@JRichardSnape why do you need to upgrade an ancient ubuntu box?
 
@AndrasDeak reasons
 
oh OK:P
 
1:57 PM
I may or may not have let it get horrendously out of date on a non-LTS release
 
my ancient ubuntu boxes always have broken package lists; at which point I install a new one
 
ah, golly - that's the name of the program
 
Additionally, it may or may not have got broken package lists through some kind of abortive upgrade I may or may not have been responsible for sometime between 2014 and now...
 
@QuestionC Permutation City is excellent, but rather dark in many places, as is much of Greg Egan's work.
 
@JGreenwell true enough.
 

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