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12:00 PM

 /dev/chat

General discussion for unix.stackexchange.com. If you have a q...
I wouldn't ask your question on ServerFault
 
really appreciate it
oh, wait, that's not chat. If I post it's probably get locked and trampled upon, but anyway thanks again. I'll proabably just ask someone irl.
 
That is chat?
 
what do you mean that's not chat?
 
Had two recruiters contact me regarding Python jobs. Unfortunately both were in London ;-;
 
@Ffisegydd go to London
 
12:05 PM
20 hours ago, by Ffisegydd
I honestly think I wouldn't be happy living in London. I think the massiveness of the place would gradually depress me.
 
What if I end up moving to London and everyone isn't there to hang out with
 
You can travel out to visit me :3
 
Sure, but if the slope of that gradation isn't too steep, you could still be there for two years
Then move to the country with all your London-money
And by "the country" I mean "not London"
 
user4433485
London & Shopping <3
 
I don't know how steep it will be, that's the problem.
If I could find a tech startup in some sleepy village in the middle of nowhere I'd be set. All I need is a local shop and a decent pub and I'm happy as a pig in muck.
 
12:08 PM
@Jerry then this also wont work..
 
probably not. I didn't see the question until now
 
@Ffisegydd yeah, the problem is startups seem to like being near other startups (according to Paul Graham), so it's unlikely
 
it would be
>>> re.sub(r'\b(?!\d+\b)([a-zA-Z\d]+)\b',r'"\1"',s)
'{"responseHeader1":{"status":0,"QTime":94}}'
 
I should make the new Silicon Valley but build it in the middle of the countryside.
 
Yeah that would be perfect; I'd join you
 
12:10 PM
Welcome to Chipping Norton Valley!
 
It's probably Cambridge, if you want it in the UK
That sounds awesome
Or Pratt's Bottom Valley
 
Bath+Bristol are one of the newest tech hubs actually.
There's a place called Fingringhoe in Essex.
 
user4433485
How is Cambridge?
 
@Ffisegydd wow
@Katherina nice. Small, but there's good tech linked to the university
@Ffisegydd or just go work in Cambridge for @MartijnPieters :)
 
See I wouldn't class Cambridge as that small, which gives you an idea of what I class London as.
I did my undergrad in Aberystwyth. There were about 9,000 local people and 10,000 students. You could walk across the entire town in less than an hour. I like small places!
 
user4433485
12:13 PM
I could use a job in UK next year
 
user4433485
I've always lived in small places, Can't imagine myself living in a town as New York
 
user4433485
Would drive me crazy
 
But places just take longer to get across; there's nothing actually different about them
 
user4433485
Actually yes
 
Yes there is. They're built up and polluted and ewww.
 
user4433485
12:16 PM
24/7 noise
 
Maybe what property you can afford to live in will change if you were in London, which is a problem
 
user4433485
I need silence and calm to think or sleep
 
@Katherina nah. The density doesn't have to be more; just how much of the surrounding area has people in as opposed to countryside
You could be in a noisy part of anywhere, unless you live on a farm
And double/triple glazing helps a lot
 
user4433485
I certainly don't live in a farm, but where I live, at 23:00 the entire street is calm, 1x in 30minutes you can hear a car and that's it
 
Someone tried to offer me a £22k job in London.
 
12:18 PM
@Ffisegydd okay, don't take that :)
 
user4433485
22k?
 
@Katherina yeah, but if you had noisy neighbours then it'd be a problem for you. Your neighbours influence the noise you hear rather more than the people a km away
 
user4433485
That is correct Robert
 
And you could have noisy neighbours anywhere
 
user4433485
but in the netherlands, also in Bulgaria, neightbours respect each other
 
12:20 PM
 
Buy it!
 
user4433485
in France I lived in the middle of nowhere, like @Ffisegydd
 
I would if I could mate.
 
user4433485
mentions
 
Let's pool our money and buy Sealand
 
user4433485
12:20 PM
Sounds great
 
user4433485
Back to hunting
 
The People's Democratic Republic of Cabbage!
4
 
Cabbaggia?
 
user4433485
lol :3 sounds good
 
@Ffisegydd That thing reminds me of certain situations from SimCity’s landscape generator.
 
12:22 PM
You could do some high-risk tobogganing on that thing
 
Does it come with a lift?
 
Doubly so down the far side of it
 
Bleh this json string isn't working ;_;
 
The only way to get on the island is to be born there
 
@Ffisegydd Change it to { "jsonWorking": true }.
 
user4433485
12:24 PM
@kevin what about airplane crash? I heard it's quite a rage at the moment
 
@Ffisegydd go work for Nielsen in Oxford. They do lots of analytics
 
The Island has special magnetic properties that repel outside air and sea craft
 
user4433485
:D
 
As long as it doesn't have French numbers coming out of it and a disappointing ending
 
user4433485
12:27 PM
as long it's not near ukraine either
 
I'm looking forward to a meeting with my boss' boss' boss today... I hope he doesn't harangue me for not making progress on project A. Not my fault my boss keeps telling me to work on project B.
 
So, @JonClements, did you write the book I am currently reading?
 
@BobbyBob I'll add them to my list to search after lunch.
 
Really hoping they don't try to pull the tactic of "yes, project B is your number one priority... But project A is also your number one priority"
 
@Kevin "You just need to manage your time better"
 
user4433485
12:29 PM
@kevin multitasking is for computers not for humans
3
 
@Ffisegydd Oh no - you found me out!? :p
 
wat?
Are you confusing me with a bird, sir?
 
Yes, yes I am... Need more tea!
 
Does anyone know of a recursive json.loads function? Say if I've got json strings inside json strings?
 
@Ffisegydd nope... but what kind of structure is that? :p
 
12:31 PM
Bloody websockets! :P
They return two keys, data and action. The action is just a string like '1-questions-newest-tag-python' but the action is another json string.
 
@Ffisegydd Why would anyone do that?
 
Ask StackExchange.
 
Ahh... just json.loads the action
 
[insert obligatory "why would you do that" image macro here]
 
Yes but what if there's further strings? This is actually something I came across in the Nidaba data.
Some of their data is given in json strings which contain json strings. It's strings all the way down people.
 
12:33 PM
There’s no way to tell if a string is a valid JSON without trying to parse it. So you would need to parse every string just in case it’s another JSON.
 
I prefer turtles...
 
Be nice if JSON had a JSON data type
 
I have a confession... I program almost entirely in JavaScript :|
 
Wait, isn't that the Object type?
 
@RobertGrant why
 
12:36 PM
Because...it would help @Ffisegydd
Don't worry, my saying that doesn't call it into being
 
If you encode a JSON string in an object and serialize that as a JSON, then apparently there is a reason why it wasn’t just an object in the first place.
 
Good point
Oops, pasted the wrong thing
Yeah I assume there's some annoying reason why they aren't just the same
 
Yep, that's the one.
 
Man I love publishing to github user pages
 
12:38 PM
I would also have accepted the catbug variant
 
But what is the best way to duplicate data in an other way? — daeda 3 hours ago
 
we should break the recommended reading on so python down by genre... All my books are history
speaking of which, this book is REALLY good
 
@corvid And a lot of mine are free-to-read internet things.
 
imagines system to search by author, genre, price, who added it, etc
 
I was thinking of making a "webcomics corner" section as well. But that may be scope creep.
 
12:40 PM
@corvid I’m tempted to reply “books are historic”, but I actually like books… (no programming related books though)
 
Don't want it to become a "recommended stuff" page
 
@poke what about the pragmatic programmer?
 
I guess it's still "reading". Unless there's no speech bubbles.
 
@Robert Didn’t read it.
 
Last programming related book I read all the way through was the TI-83+ user's manual
 
12:51 PM
@Robert got another recruiter calling me who has taken my details and is going to spam put me forward for places.
 
Cool
Are you on reed.co.uk?
 
I don't think I've put my CV on there, no.
 
I'd recommend it
 
I want to work somewhere cool. I wonder if they need any programmers in Antarctica.
Check out my computer's heat dispersal system. dumps case in eight feet of snow.
 
that's a cool place
 
12:55 PM
I had an interview with a group of polar bears. They needed someone to help with their social network.
 
They needed a SEO expert to... Increase their visibility.
 
Facebear? MyPolar? We can do better than this...
 
See... Because polar bears are well-camouflaged in a snowstorm... Ok nvm
 
Re-cbg
 
can you have an environment variable as json? Just input a json string?
 
1:00 PM
I don't see why not
 
@Ffisegydd btw - where did you find nested json? I can't find any... short of just json.loads the action
 
@Jon I copied the json from Dev tools and stuck it in a file then did json.load on it
 
Umm... wonder if it's changed then from when I played with it - that's just annoying
 
Er yeah, no idea
Guys I've got a massive headache :( Rbrb!
 
1:06 PM
I suppose the reviewers are cagey about inserting factual claims into an answer that the OP himself didn't exactly make.
If the editor is wrong and set comprehensions aren't in 2.7, then the original poster will be the one that suffers for the mistake
(of course, set comprehensions are in 2.7. But the reviewers may not know that)
 
I agree.. therefor they should either skip that edit review or look it up, instead of declining it.
 
RKEYS = ["key_whose_value_is_json", "etc..."]
def recursive(d):
    return {
        k: (json.loads(v, object_hook=recursive) if k in RKEYS else v)
        for k, v in d.items()
    }

>>> print(deeply_dippy)
{"key_whose_value_is_json": "{\"etc...\": \"[1,2,3]\", \"nope\": false}", "other": null}
>>> json.loads(deeply_dippy, object_hook=recursive)
{'key_whose_value_is_json': {'etc...': [1, 2, 3], 'nope': False}, 'other': None}
 
/me gets ready to rant about the suggested edit review queue.... (care to join me @poke?)
 
@Ffisegydd ^
 
Alternatively, the reviewers know very well that you are correct, but rejected the edit on the principle, thinking that no edit should add factual information, no matter whether it is provably right.
I'm not saying I agree with this approach, but I understand why it's employed
 
1:10 PM
(wrote the object hook in a couple of minutes, spent aaages trying to produce properly escaped nested JSON)
 
Hmm.. so should i avoid similar edits or ..?
 
@Zero is it worrying that when I see "deeply dippy" - my first thought was "Right Said Fred" ?
 
That's what I was going for :-)
 
Just got a call from someone looking for a Python developer to do data analytics in the Bath area...
 
Hurrah!
 
1:12 PM
One, small, tiny problem. They want Django as well.
 
@user5061 It's fine in my opinion, but I may be in the minority.
 
@Ffisegydd how much Django?
 
Easy solution: reach 2,000 rep and then make whatever kind of edits you like
 
Don't know, the guy is sending me the full spec now.
 
it's not massively difficult to pick up and run with it if it's not going to be a main role
 
1:13 PM
It's actually more software dev using data than pure data science.
 
@Kevin Yeah, i guess i ll reduce my editing until then.
 
ahh... so working with already crunched data, rather than crunching data?
 
Don't know exactly.
 
Grr, downvote because a link on Python.org changed from /getit to /download.
3 seconds with google would have gotten them the new link.
ah, dv undone already.
 
1:27 PM
The perils of link rot! It could happen to you!
 
user4433485
some people downvote so fast
 
umm.. it looks like I finally managed to make Leap Motion + Oculus Rift DK2 + Blender + Python 3 + Arch Linux work together, however it took me about 4 or 5 days and tons of reading and try/fail/improve cycles.. so I was wondering, I would like to share this knowledge with the world, although I don't have a blog, and I don't want to maintain one in the near future either.. so.. what are you guys suggesting? where to put these infos?
 
Carefully shape each lesson into a Q&A pair, and post it on SO?
 
@Kevin naah.. I don't think that's a good idea
some of the steps are: recompile stuffs, wrap them, etc.
it is very hard to make it a meaningful question other than: "why this is not working?"
 
I wonder if any of the technologies involved have a curated "recipes" page where users can submit their experiments.
 
1:34 PM
@Peter set up a Github website with it. Don't need to make it a full blag. Single page app will do.
 
Linux and Python probably won't care, but the other three might
 
@Ffisegydd hmm.. I guess that's the best idea we have so far.. and GH is highly ranked in Google search, so it is also a plus there..
 
Plus then you can store the appropriate code in a repo.
And have it all in one.
 
right now it is in a Gist
so I guess it makes the migration extremely easy to end up with a repo..
all righty.. unless someone else has a better idea -- I will stick with the GH site then
thanks for the tips
 
cbg
@AvinashRaj Sorry for the 2hr late reply. Got an accept on that already, so probably that's what the OP wanted
 
1:53 PM
Cabbage folks
 
cbg!
 
Cbg old bean.
 
What's going on in the PRCbg?
 
@Peter I think there's even some framework in Python that supports basic blogs and automatically does stuff with GH pages (can't remember what it's called though)
 
@JonClements nice tip but:
> I don't have a blog, and I don't want to maintain one in the near future either..
so that's not really an option here..
 
1:57 PM
Well... it helps break it up in the future, or if you end up writing amendments etc...
 
I guess in that case I would use the wiki of a GH repo
 
@Peter is the Occulus Rift thingy any good? I've heard it's brilliant/crap depending who you speak to
 
@JonClements tbh with you: let's start with the type of the device aka head-mounted-vr => that is clearly the future, so in that sense it is amazing. it really is hard to explain it to someone who have never tried it
I talked it to my brother and he was interested but little did he know back then, that he wants it as bad as nothing else
after I showed it to him in real-life back in december
 
I want a Rift VR-headset-thing so badly.
 
on the other hand: the specific device the Oculus Rift
it is a crap
:)
first of all, they are owned by Facebook -- no comment here (maybe none is needed)
 
2:01 PM
@Peter so it's a - give it 5 years or something.....?
 
You can't instantly say something is bad just because it's owned by Facebook.
 
has a terrible support for other languages than C++/C# and Unity
 
The Steam one looks good.
 
it was a nightmare to make it work under my circumstances
 
@Peter sounds like lesser men would have given up ;)
 
2:02 PM
it has threaded SDK => for no good reason
 
Let me know when they get haptic feedback and smell-o-vision etc working, just vision isn't enough for me
 
nothing is FOSS about it..
and it has only 1080p resolution
 
@Kevin You just want the Matrix don't you? :p
@Peter isn't that pretty much near the level the human eye can conceive anyway?
 
which sounds like a lot, but it is not enough for both eyes (960*1080 per eye)
 
I want their tech stack, certainly. They're squandering it by simulating real life.
Why be a cubicle drone when you could be a double wizard?
 
2:03 PM
@JonClements in this year there will be around 5-7 new VR headsets
like Sony's Morpheus, the new Oculus Rift, the Razer OSVR or Microsoft's Holo Lens
 
Sony's calling it Morpheus? :)
 
yeah
:)
 
what possibly could have inspired that name ;)
 
The Matrix, duh.
 
... Neil Gaiman's Sandman?
 
2:05 PM
Idiot
 
so I guess, same time next your it would be safe to buy a nicely tested and supported product
 
@IntrepidBrit is that Fishburne at Madame Tausauds? :p
 
For a second there I thought he was throwing some "rock on" horns
 
@Kevin that's why I created sound and touch feedback with the leapmotion
that makes it pretty "believeable"
 
2:06 PM
@JonClements Or Samuel L Jackson :P
 
@Ffisegydd sure I can.. I just did ;)
 
Okay, let me re-phrase, you shouldn't say something is bad just because it's owned by FB :P
That's the kinda thinking that people used to have about MS.
 
@IntrepidBrit I really do like SLJ - but boy, in the 90s, he was in pretty much every other film... got a bit annoying
 
@Ffisegydd ..and were they wrong? <blink> <blink>
 
Yes? Because they still say it even though MS does a lot of good now.
 
2:08 PM
But if we don't hate corporations, what will incentivize them to become less evil?
 
I dunno, I think it's quite ignorant to say "This is ran by MegaCorp and so it must be bad."
 
Or vice-versa
 
@JonClements Shyeah. Must have made an absolute mint
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that FB are, in general, evil. And I'm sure they do some crap.
 
@Ffisegydd I admit... I don't think W8.1 is too bad... and let's face it Excel is no holds barred the best spreadsheet program going
 
2:10 PM
It depends a lot on the megacorp's past behavior, if you ask me. "Oh no, EA has purchased my favorite gaming company" is valid, because Electronic Arts has a history of buying out competitors and running them into the ground.
 
@IntrepidBrit I remember going to the cinema to see "Deep Blue Sea" - lots of the audience cheered when SLJ's character got eaten by the shark... I have a feeling a lot of that was celebrating: "thank god - SLJ's not going to be in another film this much longer!"
 
sorry -- back now -- I was out for a coffee
@Ffisegydd I don't know.. I still can't show anything nice from MS, except their hardware design team (mice, keyboards, etc.)
but actually that's not the point here, to find nice things
 
@Kevin you can certainly have worries, and I agree that if EA bought MiddleCorp I would be worried, but that doesn't mean I'd necessarily say "It must be bad."
 
So... how do I sue a toaster manufacturer... I put some bread in ages ago - forgot about it - it's now all dried out and practically in-edible... I've tried using the "cancel" button, but it hasn't returned my bread... I find this outrageous...
 
sure you can find nice things in almost anything if you are looking at it very closely
 
2:12 PM
@JonClements Hahaha oh dear
 
Let's just agree that Gaben will save us all with the Steam VR headset.
 
I think the main philosophy is all that matters
 
@JonClements I remember Deep Blue Sea being awesome. But then again, I was probably more excited to have sneaked in to a see a film I was too young for
 
anyway, I get back to work now -- c u guys later!
~
 
@Peter rbrb!
@IntrepidBrit Let's not go down the path of "making Jon feel old"!
 
2:15 PM
Not gonna get any work done today, might as well just crack on with websockets stuff :P
Still annoying that SO return a json string inside a json object.
 
@PeterVaro Peter, when you've got some free time I'd like to pick your brains :)
No rush though
 
In regards to Python close an array of files in a safe manner, what kind of exceptions can get thrown when you close a file?
I feel like OP may be guarding against an edge case that can't occur
 
The: YoureAllGoingToDieDownHereException
 
@IntrepidBrit resident evil? :)
the red queen or something?
 
That's the chicken
 
2:17 PM
That snippet got mixed into a Bubba Sparx track I think
 
@Jon got the WS fixed by the way. So now got a Python script that will listen to Python Qs and pass the websocket response to a KAfka broker.
 
@Ffisegydd oh ssssuuuuuurrrrrweeeet!
 
So then we need a python script that will pull the messages from the Kafka topic, get the data via the SE api, and then either send it to another Kafka topic or just throw it into mongo.
 
does anyone know of any good python libraries to pretty print json with color?
 
Oh, the 5 minute edit grace period is removed?
 
user4433485
2:20 PM
Back!
 
@thefourtheye nope - just changes to how it works ;)
@Katherina wow - that was a trip to get coffee :)
 
user4433485
My coffee breaks are somewhat longer as usual
 
@JonClements Oh Is there a meta discussion?
 
@thefourtheye yes :)
 
hits meta
80
Q: Was the 5 minute edit grace period removed?

Josh CrozierI just answered a question at 2015-03-23 13:02:50Z, and then edited it at 2015-03-23 13:07:03Z. This edit was made within the 5 minute grace-period (4 minutes and 13 seconds after the question was answered). Yet the edit is shown in the revisions. I also just noticed that a similar thing happen...

I guessed this A comment has been added to the post since the previous revision by anyone other than the editor. But, didn't observe An answer has been added to the post since the previous revision
 
2:25 PM
c-b-g
 
@MartijnPieters I think we can dupe close this
 
user4433485
is there any difference wit the if else statement in python 2.x and 3.x ?
 
user4433485
since mine is not working correctly
 
@IntrepidBrit if it is "long" enough, you should send me a mail => petervaro a-t sketchandprototype d-o-t com
 
Cheers
Got it, you can delete if you want
 
2:28 PM
(I will not promise I reply immediately, but I will do my best ;) )
@IntrepidBrit :P
 
user4433485
Where is my favorite german programmer @poke =D seems he has been quite afk for a while !
 
@thefourtheye I would abstain from that myself, but feel free to vote so.
 
(cheers)
 
@MartijnPieters Done :-)
 
okay.... can someone send me an email to jon@sopython.com ?
 
2:35 PM
@JonClements Done :-)
 
Um... so why is my mailbox not working but the chatroom@ does? Curious and curiouser
Oh no - that worked - cheers puppy!
you changed emails!? :p
Okay - email forwarding works
 
I use both of them, one for registrations, another one for actual communications :)
 
Trying to find all the different WS results you can get
 
cbg @DSM
 
DSM
Cabbage for all.
 
user4433485
2:38 PM
cbg @DSM
 
Cbg DSM
 
@DSM cbg
 
@Ffisegydd is it worth setting up some mailboxes for people/other stuff while I'm fixing this? (ROs might want an email for instance)
 
Cabbage @DSM :-)
 
@Ffisegydd actually... since the NS records are with linode, I could just get the mail server to accept nidaba.io as well...
 
2:40 PM
I don't know, I've never asked any of the ROs if they want them :P @davidism might want one for sopython-site?
 
I would fancy one... :-) though I am not actively contributing to sopython :'(
 
well sopython is an umbrella around 4 projects and this room... so I think you're safe on the contributing side :)
 
Yay :-)
 
might just be forwarding for the moment until I can work out why the server won't take imap connections properly
 
@JonClements whisk an egg, add some cinnamon, soak toast in egg, fry in butter. Result!
 
2:44 PM
I need a question to edit :/
 
user4433485
I could make a question
 
user4433485
Since I also need a answer
 
cbg(DSM, belated=true)
 
user4433485
but the question is so terrible low that I will get downvoted :p
 
@Katherina ta but someone edited one I was currently watching.
I wonder if a websocket message occurs when you close a Q.
 
2:46 PM
@IntrepidBrit NameError: name 'DSM' is not defined :D
 
@Ffisegydd no it doesn't
 
Shame. At the moment I've got "comment-add", "answer-add", "score", and "post-edit"
 
@Ffisegydd only for comments, new answers, edits and votes
and there's no comment-remove/delete either
 
That's a pig, but can't have it all roads.
 
@thefourtheye :p
 
2:47 PM
@Ffisegydd hence you have to periodically poll the api to find the differences
(or scrape the page)
 
Comment delete isn't the end of the world of not knowing. Would be nice to know when things are closed/deleted though. Polling the API is probably the way to go.
@Jon do you know if there's a way to stop listening with autobahn? Say we get a new question and then subscribe to that questions changes, eventually would we want to stop listening?
 
@Ffisegydd I never did look to see if that was possible
 
I'll have a butchers.
 
I'm guessing there's some js event that on a tab/browser closure sends a - don't send me info thingy
(or - the socket server might just assume a timeout/stop at some point)
 
Yeah.
 
2:52 PM
I've had a question open for days in a tab and it kept getting updates... so... not sure
And I'm fairly sure the first time I tried the listen to socket and log program, it ran for a good 30+ hours just keeping requesting more and more and more without issues
 
Hmmm ok.
Trying to map out a data flow chart for it all.
 
@thefourtheye can you check that gmail account you sent to me from?
 
Yup, the mail received safe and sound ;)
 
Wow... I wasn't expecting it to be so painless :)
 

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