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6:01 PM
Thanks @Antti
 
That doesn't sound at all like the way I use Python.
 
I am thinking it would be nice to have an Python based ARM-device that is programmable on the go
 
Advertising it as a glue used to connect real languages is really underselling it
 
Well, he was trying to convince me
 
A bad thing done for a good reason is still a bad thing though.
 
6:02 PM
:d
 
Because I asked him what it did that Lisp did not do
 
it is not a bad thing :D
that is the selling point...
 
You're a bad thing.
 
Smarty pants response: Lisp and Python are both Turing complete, so there is nothing one does that the other cannot do.
 
"I have this numeric library that is PITA to use, how do I write easier code"
true.
but: with C you cannot write the code in less lines than in Python...
except if you do not calculate the lines used to produce the python interpreter :P
 
6:04 PM
Well, the number of lines only matter when I need to go beyond 20 lines for binary search
Other than that it is fine
 
???????
in python you do not write the binary search
it is in the stdlib
(if on array)
 
I suffer from the NIH-syndrom
 
chronic nihhitis
 
I am learning
 
learn to forget :D
btw, C: man bsearch ;)
 
6:06 PM
So I want to make sure that whatever is put on the table for me I can cook it myself
 
(smarty pants response to my own smarty pants response: turing completeness guarantees a baseline level of computing power, but the language is free to go above and beyond that. For example, KevinScript is Turing complete, and it can whistle the Star Spangled Banner, which most other languages can't do)
 
@Kevin you should do standup
 
No, I get deer-in-headlights syndrome when facing an audience exceeding five people.
 
burger's here...
 
I am far from a professional
 
6:10 PM
Kindly liveblog your burger experience, I want to enjoy it vicariously
 
@AnttiHaapala You don’t need line breaks in C :P
 
@poke mostly you need...
 
wow... 10 onion rings didn't last long
 
really impossible to make a C program that does not have linebreaks at all
 
If you are writing a one liner don't waste space
 
6:11 PM
the problem is the preprocessor directives cannot be on single line...
 
@AnttiHaapala Uhm, no? ; all the things!
 
There is that
 
You don’t need preprocessor directives
 
so if you want to printf, then you need to copy the prototype yourself...
 
6:12 PM
#include is for melvins, just paste stdio.c straight into your file
 
test.c:1:20: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive [enabled by default]
 #include <stdio.h> int main() { printf("hello world"); }
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.8/../../../x86_64-linux-gnu/crt1.o: In function `_start':
(.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main'
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
so ...
get the proto for printf :D
 
I want to write a Python interpreter in the future
I want to write it in Python
Just to stretch it
 
int printf(const char *format, ...); int main() { printf("hello world"); }
@RonaldMunodawafa it is done already
 
I know it
 
That's actually a standard exercise to prove a language is 'real'.
 
6:15 PM
But I want to do it myself
 
compiler bootstrapping
 
Wanting a self-hosting interpreter is why I started KevinScript, my eternally incomplete project
 
After Python, I will give Lua a try
 
I could theoretically write a KS interpreter in KS with only a few more additions, but it would be a tremendous pain in the butt
 
@RonaldMunodawafa hardly an upgrade
 
6:17 PM
@RonaldMunodawafa It's probably better to have a more concrete goal in mind. Like... write a raytracer or a game.
 
ah raytracer <3
 
I wrote a terrible horrible no good very bad 3D renderer once. It was fun.
 
I'm a fan of raytracer as a pet project because it's a nice incremental thing with easily observable results. But you need someone to walk you through the math.
 
To get a Pixar film to write its own ray-tracer - that'd be genius :)
 
this question has been asked a zillion times. Is there an official mathematical term for this? Applying a linear transformation to each of A,B,C, so they become X,Y,Z, for known values of A, B, C, X, and Z?
 
6:23 PM
linear interpolation, yes
or if there is too much data then regression
 
what exactly differentiates regression from interpolation?
 
People should do lots of pure math before they start programming professionally
 
umm... that's the 3xhalf pounder burger with cheese and double bacon, coleslaw and chips, 10 onion rings sorted... onto the chocolate eclair now...
 
I can't imagine coding without math
 
@rvraghav93 Half-remembered guess: interpolation gives an exact curve passing through all known data points. Regression gives an approximate curve which passes near as many data points as is reasonable.
 
6:25 PM
interpolation is like you perfectly can fit the data, with regrssion you have some statistical measurements with errors that you cannot really fit perfectly
hmm
 
Thank you both! that clears it!
 
ok the term is curve fitting; regression is curve fitting whne you need to think about statistics and errors...
 
I am thinking of embedding Skype onto a web page
 
And extrapolation is where you say "I can perfectly fit the data" but you do it outside of the currently known range.
 
I just need to get the source
 
6:27 PM
@Ronald you mean login.skype.com/login?
 
it is like U = RI, you say resistance 200 ohms 1 ampere, 200 volts...
 
No
Like chatting on the web page
 
That is exactly what that is.
 
@Kevin Something like ratio scaling?
 
now interpolation is "I measuerd that with 200 V we get 1 A, 400 V we get 2 A"... "how much at 300 V"
 
6:29 PM
Let me login
 
extrapolation is "how much at 3 GV"
:P
 
Answer: A fire.
 
:D :D
 
@MarcusStuhr I suppose, but I was really hoping for something that had a Wikipedia page I could link to, so I wouldn't need to spend more than two words explaining what the OP should do.
 
thus as wikipedia says: "[extrapolation] is similar to interpolation, which produces estimates between known observations, but extrapolation is subject to greater uncertainty and a higher risk of producing meaningless results."
 
6:30 PM
I'm feeling somewhat full up and a little sickly right now... how'd that happen...
 
No that is not Skype on the web page
What I mean is like we have this group chat
 
sickly? sickle cell anemia?
 
Using the browser as a client
 
4 upvotes on my first ever C++ answer #huh
 
So you want to have this group chat using a browser as a client...just like this group chat...
 
6:31 PM
skype embedding is a pretty much dead end.
the protocol is not open, they are closing extension apis, etc etc...
 
No need to copy Skype, just import socket
And write your own protocol
 
@AnttiHaapala knows what I am talking about
 
good advice: forget it
 
I know exactly what you're saying, I just- never mind.
 
@RonaldMunodawafa If you want to do something like that, you write command-line Skype. Forget the webpage stuff. But really, it's not a great project.
 
6:33 PM
I am going off out for dinner.
 
just go and write a python compiler in python, raytracer and AI, much easier :d
 
Or just write a game. Like... c'mon, everyone likes writing games.
 
That sounds backwards. Just write the AI, and make it write the compiler and raytracer.
 
I want to use it for myself and my girlfriend's roommate
 
damnit I thought I'd go to bed without starring any Kevin's lines
 
6:34 PM
How can a python compiler be written in python :O How would you compile that compiler?
 
@rvraghav93 with python ofc
 
which would require a python compiler ;)
 
Reminds me of the webcomic Achewood, in which the characters Roast Beef and Ray communicate using roast_beef_and_ray_chat_v_0_0_3.exe
 
C compilers are compiled with C, GCC now with C++, Java compilers in Java... just std stuff
 
6:35 PM
I'm amused by the idea of a chat client that would only ever be used by two people :-)
 
@rvraghav93 wrong, there is python interpreter
@Kevin 2 users is 100 % more than my usual projects
3
 
DSM
pypy bootstrapped itself using CPython, after all.
 
Same :-)
 
ooooops - wonder where Kevin's starred post went...
 
Writing the JVM in Java would be awesome
 
6:38 PM
@JonClements Hmm, something is amiss here... :-)
 
on a side note - does anyone have any experience with Amazon Glacier?
 
This clears it up!
 
seems a good SLA with a reasonable price to backup non-immediately required data... I'm talking about 20tb worth
 
Glaciers, clouds. Is Amazon trying to write a service for every form of water?
My God... The Amazon is a river, which contains water! Mind blown!
 
Inb4 Amazon comet.
 
6:44 PM
the amazon lambda looked cool
 
Just like how all of Google's services are base 36 numbers that are all smaller than a googol.
>>> int("youtube", 36) < 10**100
True
It all fits!
 
and all human knowledge is less than googolplex in base 2
 
Now I just need to work the Illuminati and the number 42 into all of this, and my theory of everything will be complete.
 
hola nerdmigos!
 
What is Illuminati
 
6:48 PM
an Illuminati is a very bright Nati
 
The Illuminati is the possibly fictional group of people that run the world from behind the scenes.
 
Something to do with enlightenment?
I reject the notion of running the world
 
They're a popular topic for conspiracy theorists.
 
The world is chaotic
 
I was being overly facetious. Ignore everything I said about the Illuminati
 
6:49 PM
@RonaldMunodawafa Pretty much, yeah.
 
@RonaldMunodawafa only if it doesn't reach stability as t goes to infinity
 
Nah, the puppy's over see the Illuminati - you're fine for now... just live your lives as though everything is normal...
 
anyone here upgrade to OSX yosemite yet?
 
I upgraded to linux before OSX was born, never felt the need to downgrade
 
@AnttiHaapala: I use both
 
6:50 PM
The Illuminati exist but they don't run the world. They just have a history with the Vatican, That is all
 
I think we agreed the power ladder goes "Puppies > Dark Council of Pythoneers > Illuminati > lizard people > public world leaders"
 
@Kevin: where does the crew of the Death Star fall in that scale?
 
...zzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 
@inspectorG4dget they were sent to the void years ago
 
6:52 PM
They are both 1) from a long, long time ago, and 2) in a galaxy far away, so we don't need to listen to them.
 
And Python is the language that the Illuminati had been hiding for two centuries that held the secrets of modern civilisation
 
plus... their uniform and customs were really quite stupid - that was reason enough to get rid of them...
 
well, it's quite possible that their transmissions haven't reached us yet
 
I saw a documentary of them, they're dead now.
 
stupid yosemite is breaking a lot of things. I'm having so much trouble installing python
 
6:54 PM
The appearance of the ET aliens in Episode 1 rather complicate the timeline
 
@inspectorG4dget ahhh yes... I'm glad that worm hole manipulation, spacial folding, trans-dimensional travel and jump gates are still something you're not aware of
 
so many coders who say "Oh my mac, oh my sublime, everything is so easy... now IF ONLY I COULD INSTALL THIS "#¤"#¤!#"!¤ PYTHON AND ... DAMNIT"
 
ER bridges are awesome, yes. But we are yet to create a stable one. Therefore, expedited transuniversal communications are probably still limited by the speed of light
 
speed of light in a warp bubble
 
Holding open wormholes is easy, you just need exotic matter with negative mass. Just pop on down to the corner store and get some...
 
6:56 PM
@inspectorG4dget that's what we they want you to think... :)
 
I don't like sublime-text
I hate geddit
 
ack! My whole life has been manipulated by someone else. I feel like I'm on the Truman Show
 
I hate Visual Studio's bulkiness for solo projects
I will try Eclipse
 
prediction: hate
 
Why would I hate
 
6:58 PM
interestingly, I was having this conversation with a friend not long ago - if you could control the DNS that your target connects to, then you basically control their view of the internet
 
I love eclipse (for Java), but then I am obviously into S/M, right?
@inspectorG4dget if they are blindfolded, yes, basically
 
and/or are first time users
 
@davidism That sounds like what a Skynet style AI would say after being booted for the first time.
 
or otherwise don't have the IP addresses of their favorite websites memorized
 
"What will the weather be like tomorrow, Master Intelligence?" "PREDICTION: HATE". "Uh, let's try that again." f5. "PREDICTION: NUCLEAR WINTER"
 
7:00 PM
Comment out the "import skynet" line next time
 
Good tip.
 
just watched T1 and T2 with wife... about the trailer for T3 she said it looks like shit, whew, no need to watch :D
 
According to Paul Graham, case analysis by means of conditional statements was introduced by Lisp. Before Lisp, how did the programming languages then deal with case analysis
 
I guess it's a good thing they never made any more Terminator movies past T2!
 
@MarcusStuhr hear hear
 
7:03 PM
@Antti the only saving grace for T3 is that I really fancied Claire Danes growing up
 
T1 is the best, and T2 is better, it is fitting end for the series
 
T2 is one of those rare sequels that imho superceded the excellence of the first
@davidism taking your word for it... didn't read it thoroughly
 
@RonaldMunodawafa Maybe they're making the distinction between conditionals and branching. For example, Assembly's JNZ instruction can jump to different points in the code depending on the contents of the register, but there's no formal "if then" structure
So I guess the practical consequence is, in lisp you could write the "then" block directly inside the routine without having to mess around with gotos or jumps.
 
There is so much wrong with this question: made login available over crossdomain, uses md5 to hash passwords, and obviously didn't read the docs on how to use flask-login: stackoverflow.com/questions/27110737/…
oh, is also using the development server in threaded mode and treating it like a production server
 
7:11 PM
@Kevin so Lisp is quite influential
 
also appears to be wrapping the entire flask application in a class, self.server = Flask()
 
mm hmm, I don't doubt that. Seems like every cool feature that some language has, a lisp programmer can say "we had that back in '79"
 
cabbage
 
I have always held the belief that a lot of what makes modern languages "modern" was in Lisp way before we approached the modern times and were deemed complicated
 
@davidism Perhaps you could tell him all these things. Perhaps he would be grateful. (Or perhaps he'll get defensive and tell you "it works fine for me")
 
7:14 PM
AI started in Lisp for sure
 
I'd like to create a function in C with the equivalent declaration in python:
 
@Kevin I just don't have the energy to explain it all to him.
 
What do you mean?
 
def my_function(**kwds):
    ...
 
I did n't enter the last message
 
7:16 PM
Does C even have keyword args?
 
@davidism must be a php programmer
 
...what would be the PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords for this?
 
@davidism it is such a PHPism to use md5 hash for everything
@NoobSaibot nope
 
That does not appear to be a yes or no question. (Noob's question, not mine)
 
7:17 PM
C has variadic functions
 
@Kevin no is still a valid answer though :D
 
@Kevin Lemme try this again...
 
@NoobSaibot your function gets 2 parameters: a and kw
 
@NoobSaibot Not to say your question is somehow invalid. Merely that the response to it was. (arguably)
 
why do you need to parse anything since you have the kw, it is the only thing that you actually have.
 
7:18 PM
@AnttiHaapala Yes, that's what i mean. For this function, i'm not interested in the args. Only the kwords.
 
then throw if you are given args
 
i.e., there wouldn't be any args, only optional kwds.
 
and use kw as dict
 
So i guess it would be...
def my_func(this=True, that=False, the_other=False):
    ...
...where None is also acceptable.
(Sorry for the confusion. I tried to correct, but it was too late).
 
so then you use parse_args and kw, but raise if args is given
 
7:20 PM
Well, I answered that guy's question, but the explanation of "you should not be doing all that" is longer than the answer.
 
in python 3.3+ you can have $ for parse to signify the beginning of kwonly args
 
@AnttiHaapala I thought it was ... to separate args from kw-only args
 
@AnttiHaapala Is this correct:
int *thi, *tha, *tho;
static char *kwargs[] = {"this", "that", "the_other", NULL};

if (!PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords(args, kwds, "|iii", kwargs, &thi, &tha, &tho)) {
return -1;
}
 
C is minimalist. C++ would get you want faster
 
yes, but you can also call it as (1,2,3)
 
7:23 PM
It is maximalist enough
 
@RonaldMunodawafa please stop talking
 
and this accepts 0, 1, but not none
 
@AnttiHaapala I am passing args to the function, but not parsing it. That's ok?
 
7:24 PM
(I can't test till i get home from work).
 
now i do not understand
 
because I just can't take the ridiculous stuff you're saying anymore
it was bad enough yesterday, but it hasn't improved today
in conclusion, lurk moar
 
@AnttiHaapala Ok...how would you PyArg_Parse... this function in C?
 
@NoobSaibot would parse O if None is also acceptable
 
@AnttiHaapala "O|iii"?
 
7:27 PM
|OOO
they are pyobjects then
 
They are c ints.
So what i have is fine then?
 
you said you want to accept which type?
you said true, false and none?
 
def my_function(this=True, that=False, the_other=False)...
They're all bools.
 
DSM
Like MacArthur, I have returned.
 
The user could pass the kewords individually, or none at all.
So in the C-sense, there are no args.
 
7:31 PM
so what if someone passes in 2
 
Which is why I said no
 
or 'true'
 
@AnttiHaapala Ohh...
Now i see what you mean! :-)
 
anw gotta go to sleep now
 
I would have wanted the user to explicitly indicate which of the flags they're turning on/off.
 
7:33 PM
rhubarb
 
@AnttiHaapala Thanks for your help!
 
This guy asked two questions in one post, and someone already answered the easy question. I could answer the harder one, but I don't really feel like sharing the glory 50-50 with him.
 
@RonaldMunodawafa Was this directed towards me?
 
no question in question, and probably a typo/not-useful to others anyway
@Kevin love those passive aggressive comments
 
7:35 PM
@RonaldMunodawafa I can't find where you said it.
 
managing python versions on linux is such a pain
 
@RonaldMunodawafa I'm good, thanks....
 
DSM
There's a certain non-room user whose comments -- though seldom wrong -- have been pretty snarky over the last few months.
 
@corvid no it's not?
 
DSM
I wish he'd dial it back a notch.
 
7:37 PM
@DSM Tell him that.
 
@corvid share your experience
 
I only wanted to be passive aggressive to iCodez. If the comments on the OP are also passive aggressive, I need to work on my tone.
 
1 message moved to Trash
@Kevin yeah, I just meant the iCodez one
 
installed python3, which installed python 3.2, but I want 3.4. So had to install it from source
 
@corvid what distro?
 
7:38 PM
Using elementaryOS
 
DSM
@Noob: well, I don't want to spark a snark war in the comments. Someone would probably flag my own comment as unhelpful anyway.
 
usually, if it's not in the official repos, you can add another source
what's elementary based on, debian or ubuntu?
 
you mean apt-add-repository? That didn't work so well. Elementary is on top of ubuntu
 
Doesn't ElementaryOS use the Ubuntu repo
 
Cabbage! :)
 
7:40 PM
Ubuntu ships with Python 3.4 if I am not mistaken unless the latest ElementaryOS is based on an older Ubuntu
 
Not elementaryOS, which is what is unusual about it
 
But note that it might depend on Python 3.2
So you might want to be cautious there
 
what repo did you add that didn't work?
 
Just get Python 3.5 since it already is out
 
it is?
 
7:43 PM
The alpha release
It is usable enough
No problems so far
 
a) an alpha is not a release, and the "alpha" version has been "out" for a while b) don't do that
 
Alphas aren't tested well enough, if you ask me. What if I build from source and bees fly out of my computer's exhaust port, and sting me all over? What then?
 
Also, python.org doesn't list any active pre-releases: python.org/download/pre-releases
 
Let somebody else take that risk. I'll stick with the beeless 3.4.2.
 
DSM
I like to use base Python and only work from trunk on the libraries that I know well enough to debug.
 
7:47 PM
I am sure you will find it in some forums
 
@Kevin Hope you aren't allergic to them?
:)
 
Whoever posted James Powell's presentation is a good woman/man
 
I'm not allergic, but I still don't like it
 
DSM
"Oh, no, not the bees! Not the bees!"
 
hrmph.
ImportError: No module named 'flask'
(flask) kurultai :: (master*) » pip freeze                    ~/code/kurultai 1 ↵
Flask==0.10.1
Flask-SQLAlchemy==2.0
Jinja2==2.7.3
MarkupSafe==0.23
SQLAlchemy==0.9.8
Werkzeug==0.9.6
itsdangerous==0.24
 
7:49 PM
try creating another virtualenv
 
@Kevin I once crushed a bee after having Ribena chucked at me, thinking it was a pastry flake.
 
welp, definitely did break something.
 
@corvid Today, I spelled scientist as scientish.
> today I learned I'm an idiot
;)
 
proud of you!
 
I know! Gave the people on my table a laugh, though.
 
7:57 PM
Perhaps you meant "schientisht," Mr. Connery?
 
I actually meant "That man shurely wash a shtupendush scientisht!"
 

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