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3:00 PM
Me mam once locked herself out of the house and put me through the cat flap to find her keys. I was about 2.
 
so spent £350 taking it to a dealership so they could reprogram the immobiliser and alarm and issue another key... etc.... about 3 weeks later, get back from shopping, re-arrange the freezer and underneath a packet of frozen peas... guess what I found :(
 
I have an interview, what do?
 
@JonClements Reminds me of the time I lost my credit card, and had to cancel it, at the expense of some fees. Six months later I found it in a pile of textbooks.
I blame the university for that. It's their fault they made me buy a pile of books that I never read.
@corvid Go to interview. Important: leave mother at home.
 
We were discussing text books the other evening.
The consensus seems to be that they're useless.
I knew I never used mine. In fact, mine are currently propping up my laptop as a stand.
 
@Ffisegydd their lack of a Ctrl+F function is frustrating
 
3:03 PM
Last useful textbook I had was high school trigonometry. It had a lovely table with every sin/cos/tan identity you would ever need.
The rest of the book was useless, but that table was incredible.
These days, I know you can find the angles of a triangle if you know all three sides, but I don't know how to actually find them :-( What if my life depends on that kind of information one day?
(this page says "use the law of cosines", but the font they use in their illustrations is too fun. I can't take them seriously.)
 
can I make a .php file on a flask site on heroku and have it work? Do not question motives
 
Deploy the PHP environment and define an alias for PHP script in your server config file (not sure if it'll work)
 
DSM
Monday cabbage for all.
 
cbg @DSM
@corvid I've got a mixed php/flask and django setup for a single website, that's handled by some rather kludged middleware and nginx rules... but that's not on heroku... but it is possible...
 
DSM
3:19 PM
Urf. Because I was lazy I used except Exception even though we always tell people not to, and naturally it swallowed a NameError because of a typo. Sometimes I think experience doesn't prevent mistakes so much as decrease the time to find them..
 
@DSM I had to debug a 10k line project the other day
I'm leading the project for a client, but there's some chinese/polish/greek developers on the project that do various bits
spent most of an entire bloody day trying to work out why this occasional TypeError kept occuring
 
3D modeling is actually really hard... can you export animations?
 
@Kevin I commented out the assert lines at 54, 58, 59 of polyomino.py and it works cool :D
 
@DSM anyway... it was because of an except Exception and someone had typed letter as lettar
 
3:24 PM
An interesting lot of function variables there.
 
DSM
@Jon: oy, I didn't even think of that. Typos are hard enough to spot when it's your native tongue!
 
Oo, polyominoes?
 
@rvraghav93 Strange, I wonder why the asserts would cause problems.
 
@DSM it was a very rare exception, took me ages to reproduce... but the function was dropping off the end and returning None, which was sometimes valid in another function depending on something else...
 
DSM
Some code doesn't like being told what it's supposed to do.
 
3:26 PM
@MarcusStuhr Yes, we're discussing a project of mine
 
so putting the jigsaw together was a nightmare
 
Hmm, maybe it's an OS-related line ending problem. Ex. if the line looks like ".X..\r", then the third assert would fail.
 
How does the game work?
 
@Kevin probably ... U using windows ? anyway nice game ! :)
 
3:29 PM
It's Tetris. I just didn't call it that so I wouldn't get sued into oblivion. You run it by executing "main.py".
Yeah, I'm on Windows.
 
Noticed that :P "Falling-Block-Game" - Haha...
 
DSM
Random fact of the day: it was only in the last year that I learned that matplotlib accepts "upper left" and so on as legend locations, so I didn't have to keep experimenting to find out which number corresponded to what corner.
 
@Ffisegydd since the trello is empty, could you add a TODO.txt to nidaba, so one can see what the roadmap is?
 
@DSM Additional random fact of the day: although thinking this room was about reptiles, I seem to have blended in with the natives and convinced them I know "programming"
 
We stopped using the Trello, I've removed the link from the GH README.md and will be removing it from the sopython.com site.
 
3:34 PM
today I learned I'm an idiot
 
@DSM nice, I usually go for best and let it sort it for me
 
@Ffisegydd Okay!
 
@corvid I learnt that years ago - I just pretend I don't realise it
 
DSM
Unlikely-to-be-implemented feature request of the day: a marker indicating when your witty comment is too long to fit in the starred comment box.
 
I always forget to source ~/.zsh_profile :(
 
3:37 PM
@DSM I imagine it'd just be an error message saying "brevity is the soul of wit"
 
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890‌​123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901‌​234567890123456789012345678901234567890
127 ?
 
The char limit is in the upper 140s
 
@Jon that's all one word though so it's different.
 
It might be exactly 150 (although if you go to 151, it will lop off four characters, not one, to make room for the ellipsis)
 
Look at how it's been placed below the star
 
3:40 PM
I've thought about adding a character count indicator to chat, but it's surprisingly difficult to detect when a change has been made to a textbox, in a robust way. Ex. just checking for keyup events won't detect when you right click and choose "paste".
 
@Kevin dude - I'm racing you in the starconomy now.... I just copy pasted '1234567890' * 20 and I'm ahead of you for the day already - fear me! muhahahhaa
 
Jon is trying to outdo Kevin...you know what must be done, Gentlemen...
 
I could just make it check every millisecond, but that's a tragedy of the commons. What if every script had such polling behavior, your computer would lock up
@JonClements Slow and steady wins the race :-)
 
DSM
I wouldn't mind the font colour changing in the text box beyond 140s.
 
Uh, if this is a race. There never seems to be an end.
 
DSM
3:42 PM
I remember a short story the punchline of which was "Sloane's Teddy wins the race."
I'm not saying it was a great story, but obviously memorable.
 
I remember an exceedingly long story the punchline of which was "hover for spoilers"
It was actually a rather interesting read, but I definitely felt trolled at the end.
 
You got it :-)
For anyone that actually wants to read that, I suggest bookmarking it with a vague title, and forgetting about it for a few months. That way you won't know the joke ahead of time.
 
cabbage all
 
cbg
 
3:52 PM
Morning davidism
 
DSM
Cabbage for davidism.
 
@davidism I've been looking at git rebase for rebasing stuff and making commits cleaner, I assume that's what you use?
 
cabbage for EVERYBODY! YOU get a cabbage, and YOU get a cabbage!
 
@Ffisegydd yes, but the rule you need to follow is don't rebase anything that other people already have.
Which I've broken a few times just to make my life easier in sopython, but I should stop :)
you can rebase local commits onto the latest master so that your branch has the latest changes
or you can use rebase -i to squash commits together into one logical block
 
Ah ok, so I should commit but not commit+push as I go.
 
3:55 PM
exactly
That's why I have a fork of sopython, even though I'm an owner
 
rebase -i? Glad you mentioned that, because that's exactly what I was looking to just do .-.
 
WTB: rot13 userscript.
 
so that I can push -f and safely assume no one is also using that repo
 
(Even though that's not rot13d)
@davidism makes sense
I've been branching within sopython for now, but might switch to that.
 
Okay... that also comes out 147
1 message moved to recycle bin
maybe balpha's a snooker fan?
 
4:00 PM
extremely dumb question; can you center an image in markdown?
 
balpha may be a snooker fan, but based on the timestamps I know that davidism is not a balpha fan :P
 
@corvid Not with core markdown
 
Does anyone know of a decent site that details how versioning should be done in packages? i.e. 0.0.1.dev or whatever?
nvm wiki will do
 
@Ffisegydd keep it consistent and go with @davidism's major.minor.release kind of structure
 
As long as it's lexicographically ordered, anything goes
 
DSM
4:03 PM
Lexico's tough because you need to plan ahead (or always odometer-roll after 9).
 
@Ffisegydd I based my versioning off of the Flask and Alembic packages
 
But I wasn't sure whether we wanted an alpha in there or something, as sopython is operational but nidaba isn't
 
Hmm, but then how do you know ahead of time how many versions you'll have...
"Version 0001.0001.0001" is a bit lengthy
 
just call it Nidaba-1.0-dev
 
I normally go YYMM.build_number as that works better for me... but doesn't really matter
 
4:04 PM
@DSM Augh, you beat me
 
Victory for DSM!
 
version one.potato, two.potato, etc.
 
heya @MarcusStuhr
 
myproject (new (most recent (2.0 (most more recentest)))
 
@Ffisegydd semver.org
^ no exceptions allowed.
 
4:05 PM
@JonClements cbg
 
DSM
If any of our Hindi speakers were around I'd get them to turn "Jai ho" into something more like "victory for me" and then sing it to myself.
 
0.1-dev will do
 
I think it's going to have to be a kebab tonight
 
I'm off to Grillstock tonight :D
 
@JonClements what was up with those random messages?
 
4:11 PM
He was counting the number of letters that you could get in a message and be starred, before the ellipsis occurred and it was shortened.
 
DSM
My fault, I'm afraid.
 
@Ffisegydd you... you.... you.... beeping beep beeping beepy beep beep!!!
 
Hmm?
 
you going with your mate that had that more than substantial platter last time?
 
Oh right GS. A load of us are going.
 
DSM
4:15 PM
[goes off to google "Grillstock"]
 
@DSM I've still got the menu sitting in my downloads :(
 
reminds me of Grimlock. shrug
 
looks like fab food
 
anyone do some android development here? What is the difference between the ADT and the standalone SDK tools?
 
4:16 PM
@Ffisegydd was the "Grand Champion" he had wasn't it?
I'd quite fancy trying out a "Lockjaw Burger" :)
 
I usually have the Lockjaw, it's damn good.
No one has had the epic huge one yet.
Well, two friends shared one.
I didn't eat anything at lunch today, in preparation for it.
 
Can't say that's healthy practice, but then sometimes I get so busy I forget to eat
 
dpq
Hey guys, please enlighten me on gevent/greenlet context locals: is it correct that all variables declared and used e.g. in my gevent.wsgi apps should be managed with local context manager? What happens if I don't? I've read quite a bit on this topic, but I am still confused.
 
DSM
@Ffisegydd: can you think of a reason why pd.to_datetime('2014-1') should give 2014-01-24?
 
@dpq didn't you ask that yesterday? :p
@DSM unknowns are replaced with the current dt
 
dpq
4:21 PM
Quite correctly, I did. Trying my luck again in case someone knowledgeable on this topic hangs around in this channel today :)
 
@DSM well it uses dateutil.parser.parse under the hood, which similarly returns datetime.datetime(2014, 1, 24, 0, 0). So I suspect it's just the "fuzzy" searching going bad.
But where it gets the 24 from?
 
DSM
@Jon: ahhh. I might've come up with that myself if (1) I were more clever, and (2) I knew what today's date was.
 
it's a convenience, so that if you do 2013 - you get the same day/month as today
 
Ah touche.
Very clever puppy. Have a lockjaw burger.
 
you need to forcibly use .replace(...) once you've got the dt object to override it
@Ffisegydd I'll take you up on that at the first sopycon :)
 
4:24 PM
"sopycon 2014: Coming to a Bath near you!"
 
DSM
I thought we'd agreed on Reykjavík?
oops -- for the first time in my SO history, I accidentally protected a question..
 
Ooh yeah Reykjavik is better.
 
@DSM I've never seen why that's a 15k rep thingy - it's not exactly useful
 
Less than 3k to 10k! But getting it by Christmas is, I think, not doable.
 
especially since, you can't disagree with someone else that has protected a question, so it's only you/a mod that unprotect it again... and never been convinced it does any good anyway
 
4:26 PM
@Ffisegydd jumped to 170 ahead of me
 
@davidism 195 now ;)
 
@MarcusStuhr That was interesting!
 
*205 (too late to edit)
 
so... the bets are on then... first to 10k... will it be @Ffisegydd or @davidism....
that's a tricky one...
 
Got another pivot_table answer in today @Jon ;)
 
4:34 PM
I'll start answering c++ and js questions then..
 
DSM
Flask/db vs. matplotlib/pandas..
 
you know I'm still bitter about you and pivot_table - why do you keep bringing it up bundles down in the corner of the room and whines
 
vaultah is the dark horse, I reckon he could take us both over again.
 
4:45 PM
you're staying silent @holdenweb :)
can't believe I'm still getting involved
they're showing effort though and have made an attempt, but are just genuinly confused about stuff
 
DSM
I used to try salvaging questions by people who seem to be making an effort; less so now. Leave it for people working their way up.
♫ but I was so much older then ♫ I'm younger than that now ♫
 
@DSM wow... we almost have the same attitude... I use to go all out answering... hence the spurt to 20k odd in the first year or something... now I look at some questions, and think "I can't think of a dupe, but that's boring - I'll find something interesting, someone else on the answer rampage disease can have it"
hypoctically I do still sometimes answer some of the easier ones if all it's getting is crap answers
mostly out of fear that the asker is going to think they're getting correct approaches or something
 
DSM
5:01 PM
That's not hypocrisy, it's a teacher stepping in when class discussion (a.k.a. a pool-your-ignorance session) is going off the rails. :-)
 
Thanks! I updated but now it is printing [<__main__.Teams object at 0x1041525f8>, <__main__.Teams object at 0x104152550>] — thyestes 1 min ago
we're getting there... but I'm losing momentum to pursue it much further
 
DSM
Looks a lot like a list of objects he's got there..
 
I'd say that these days, I answer 1/3rd of the questions I know the answer to. Most of the time I assume 1) someone else will submit a half-baked answer before I compose something good, 2) the OP is going to move the goalposts and withhold any reward until I finish their homework, or 3) the OP simply won't understand the answer.
 
besides, I've already got trusted user... a couple more tag gold badges wouldn't go amiss, but got gold... so not overly fussed... since I know everyone is going to vote the awesome cute yellow puppy for mod next year aren't they? :p cough
 
DSM
Depending on the candidates the Python vote might be split. :-/
 
5:10 PM
cbg
 
@JonClements you made it to 20k, I think I lost my motivation way before you. I'll get there eventually, but I feel like I've already slowed down.
 
DSM
There was a neat query I saw earlier today (here) showing how your rep is changing over time as a function of different processes.
 
@JonClements I think the same, just I didn't reach 20k before getting fed up of it :P
 
it's just embarrassing seeing people having spent half the time on the site I have and having more rep... sighs
 
DSM
5:18 PM
.. but not necessarily embarrassing for you, depending on how you look at it. :-)
 
I'm going to put down community building (here and sopython) as the main cause... I think that works :)
I also seem to be spending a lot more time commenting on others' answers suggesting things than I do just writing an answer
 
what does it mean configuring app from database? — Nima Soroush 1 min ago
 
right, kebab or the 3x half pounder burger
 
this guy "answers" a question he doesn't even understand
 
Burger.
 
5:20 PM
actually, he's been really annoying lately in the flask and sqlalchemy tags
If you don't understand the question, why are you posting an answer? The asker wants to read configuration from a database rather than a config file. — davidism 1 min ago
 
Now I need to properly learn multithreaded apps for the gameplay
 
@Ffisegydd so the 3xhalf pounder burger, with cheese, bacon and egg, with spicy fries, coleslaw and onion rings?
 
I'd drop the egg personally.
 
umm... can swap the egg for more bacon
 
Winner.
 
5:24 PM
What is the difference between multithreading and asynchronous programming
 
obesity and heart disease... I run to you tonight!
 
@Ronald that's easily Googleable.
 
@Ffisegydd actually can swap out egg for slices of lamb donner
 
"A programmer had a problem. He thought to himself, 'I know, I'll solve it with threads!'. has Now problems. two he"
12
 
I really want to get to the gist of matters in terms of concurrency, parallelism, multithreading and asynchronous patterns
 
5:29 PM
Wow... I should probably be worried that the takeaway agency I use has 4 registered cards
 
DSM
@Ronald: unfortunately the chat room isn't a great place to cover broad subjects like that. You'll have much better luck reading through longer tutorials on the net.
 
Thanks @DSM I will look for a book by a professor
 
@RonaldMunodawafa Also consider asking on reddit.com/r/learnprogramming
 
Thanks
Btw speaking of learning programming, is there anyone who ever uses the Python API in here?
 
Depends on what you mean by that.
 
5:36 PM
I mean the Python API as it is referred to in the docs. The API you use in C (and C++)
 
DSM
I've used it maybe a handful of times, and I've been programming in Python since before ~1.5.1. It doesn't come up much for typical uses, by which I mean using Python to solve problems, as opposed to using CPython as an interpreter.
 
@poke you on skype btw?
 
@Jon One sec
 
yeah me too... just phoning the bank about something
 
Let me read around its usage and find out why I would want it in my C code
 
5:42 PM
^ That already sounds wrong.
 
Learning more about the benefits of using the Python API in C?
 
No, having to read about it to “find out why [you] would want it in [your] C code”
 
How is that wrong?
 
DSM
Well, there's relatively little reason to want to call into a Python interpreter from C or C++.
 
Because you shouldn’t need to read about something to find out why to use it somewhere else. Usually you have a problem you want to solve, and then you find the right tool and read about that.
 
DSM
5:46 PM
It's not quite as bad as "if you don't already know why you need it, you don't need it", but it's pretty close.
 
Maybe there might be a set of solutions I might consider refactoring
 
DSM
I write lots of code in Python because it works for the problems I'm throwing at it. I also write lots of code in C++ because there are things I need done which Python can't do (mostly performance-related). Seldom do I need to connect the two.
 
Actually, that's something my company does pretty regularly.
 
But not in the “let’s use Python from within C” sense.
 
@RonaldMunodawafa I think what you're referring to may be an example of an "XY problem" here. meta.stackexchange.com/a/66378
 
5:49 PM
You're referring to calling Python code from C?
That's not so common. In our case, it happens because we have a complete, nice, framework in C++, and we wanted to be able to integrate Python into it.
But that's the kind of thing you just do once and you're done.
 
DSM
Long-term room members may remember my complaints about getting my C++ code to SWIG correctly a few months back..
 
@MarcusStuhr well, I thought it would be nice let's say taking existing code in C you have written in the past and then make it callable from Python without having to rewrite anything in Python. That way, I would have cut down on a lot of time
 
@DSM sounds scary
 
I can imagine using Python inside C if I wanted to make use of a module or something. "How shall I parse this user-inputted expression? I know, I'll use ast to make an AST"
 
5:56 PM
so what's the problem with using Python from C now?
 
DSM
Okay, time for scrum, and after that, lunch. Midday rhubarb for all!
 
youtube.com/watch?v=pBp2S0SpcEM saw a talk by James on more or less the same content squeezed in half the time...
 
Before I learnt Python when I was still beginning learning C#, I remember my good friend telling me that "Python is like a switchboard that help you make your C# talk to your Java talk to your Forth peacefully"
 
O_O
 

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