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4:00 PM
otherwise I suck at C++.
 
that is why I understand for "dynamic scopes"
 
user1596138
@BartekBanachewicz Ah good answer ;). Was hoping you'd claim righteousness and I could just write you off as a dumbass.
 
user1596138
Guess not :P
 
user1596138
@BartekBanachewicz Wait lol you can't suck at it.
 
4:00 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Cliffs?
 
@Jhawins C++ is hard.
 
user1596138
You put down that you've "mastered" it on your careers profile but here you say you suck lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz not really.
 
user1596138
Bro that's an awful awful combination.
 
@Jhawins That's possible
 
4:01 PM
You need to understand a few things to use it effectively but I wouldn't call it a hard language.
 
I've mastered C#, and sometimes I write terrible code.
 
Once you get ownership and the concept of templating I'd say it's pretty simple.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum - nothing is hard for you, you're like a master in everything
 
I've mastered chat rooms
 
I've mastered Zirak
 
4:02 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum haha "the concept of templating"
 
@NickDugger win
 
@adeneo lots of things are hard for me, I've had to read an article 5 times yesterday.
@BartekBanachewicz just the concept, not how to actually write complicated template code.
 
I've mastered baiting.
 
@NickDugger Don't bait me. You might be a master of that as well.
 
user1596138
@KendallFrey Sure, makes sense. But mastering isn't close to sucking lol
 
4:02 PM
I honestly don't think languages are that big of a deal...
 
Ninja'ed
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum "basics of languages"
 
!!s/dynamically/stupidly/
 
@copy @jAndy this is stupidly scoped (source)
 
!!s/baiting/masturbaiting/
 
4:03 PM
@adeneo I've mastered masturbaiting. (source)
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, I mean languages.
(Damn keyboard switch)
 
what was that
 
wth :p
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I think you understand best what I meant originally about languages today. Just the fact that it's more a way of doing things than the language you write things in. Learning fundamentals that apply to all languages etc
 
> no, I mrsn lsnhushrd.
 
4:04 PM
@Jhawins I can't disagree with that.
 
user1596138
Not so much the "basics of a language" as it is the "basics of programming"
 
after all, there are only 3 languages really: ASM (abstract machine code), C (as higher, human language for ASM) and probably a functional abstract model (LISP)
 
Different languages have different concepts sometimes. There is still a conceptual leap when learning SQL if you know C, and C++ if you know C, and JS if you know Haskell and vice versa. I just don't think these differences are as important for learning the first languages.
 
any other language is based on one of those (obv all are based on machine code)
 
peeps over in the php room are in the midst of a crisis with php 7 verses 6
its quite funny to watch
 
4:05 PM
@jAndy most languages aren't "based" on machine code.
All implementations are of course.
 
probably wrong wording on my side
 
@IsaiahTaylor PHP still exists?
5
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh yeah. SQL stuff is in it's own category. It's very different, that or I don't know enough yet.
 
@copy lol
 
sql qualifies as a language
 
user1596138
4:06 PM
@Neil Not what I meant
 
@jAndy - not all languages are C-like, there's stuff like fortran, simula, brainfuck, whitespace etc.
 
@copy what is your server side lang of choice if not php?
 
@copy oh you'd laugh so much. They had a huge argument on how to call the next version (which they don't have a road map, feature list or timeline for). For like 3 days... they wrote huge RFCs had votes etc.
 
It is just one of the few that doesn't tell the computer what to do
 
They were arguing about calling it PHP6 or PHP7.
 
4:06 PM
I prefer NodeJS over PHP
 
(Again, no road map, no feature list, nothing close).
 
@IsaiahTaylor most people in this room would very gladly use Node over PHP
!!afk pho
 
user1596138
@IsaiahTaylor phpQuery
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Because Perl 6 was a failure or something like that?
 
what do you all think about python as serverside alternative?
 
4:07 PM
jPhpQuery
 
Considering there's no PHP 6 yet...why are they considering skipping to 7?
 
!!s/NodeJS/slime/
 
@jAndy No matching message (are you sure we're in the right room?)
 
user1596138
PHP#
 
hoping to avoid the v6 effect?
 
4:07 PM
@jAndy I prefer slime over PHP (source)
 
@copy because bikeshedding is easier than getting things done :D
2
 
user1596138
PHPQuery++
 
@IsaiahTaylor Python, Ruby, C#
 
@NickDugger I'd use PHP sometimes for very specific things.
 
myjPhpQuery on rails /w maven support
2
 
4:08 PM
@Jhawins what applies to all languages is programming language theory, and that's really not what most people mean when saying "fundamentals"
 
@Neil lol
 
@IsaiahTaylor that is no crisis
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Really?
 
@SterlingArcher nope, it isnt. its just funny to watch them freak out. im not a php person
 
@BartekBanachewicz most languages have a way to declare identifiers with values, have a concept of function calls. Have the concept of recursion and solving problems with divide and conquer, have the concept of flow control and branching etc.
 
4:10 PM
i actually like php. there's stuff that sucks horribly about it, but frankly, it did a number of things right that most languages out there still can't
 
@copy sure. For example I'd probably use it today for setting up a blog - stuff like that that is very simple programs that require use of libraries and very little coding on my part.
 
@Ben a lot of that is computational theory, not PLT
 
@BartekBanachewicz WHAT?
 
php has made me a few hundred thousand dollars so I can't hate it :P
 
IOW real computer science
 
4:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz please, dont ping me, I dont want anything to do with this discussion
 
although ive noticed theres a big market demand for php professionals right now. that and angularjs. i always see those two job request come through my inbox
 
@BartekBanachewicz Srsly?
 
Ouch sorry @Ben
 
Have you taken a course in computational theory?
 
no worries
 
4:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You've done it now... :P
 
@Loktar thats what i was going to say, php has made me the most money but its still php
 
Or read a book?
Or an article?
 
@BartekBanachewicz "real computer science" is an oxymoron. :P
 
Or the wikipedia article?
Or anything, really?
 
@IsaiahTaylor yeah I don't even mean at a professional job either
 
4:11 PM
How is that anything close to computational theory?
 
^ Watched the trailer ?
 
just on a personal project, if PHP wasn't easy to pick up not sure if I would have made the money I did.
 
That field isn't interested in those questions at all.
They are orthogonal to it mostly.
 
php is hardly even a language. its like an extended js library
 
Language theory and computational theory are closely related, but not in the programming languages sense.
 
4:12 PM
@Benjamin in general, duh. Don't need to get all fired up because I mix a name of a branch of maths
 
@cHao php6 existed and was a failure
 
@BartekBanachewicz go read Sipser, seriously, now, it's very readable very good introductory book.
 
user1596138
@BartekBanachewicz Actually I think the most broad of things that apply to all languages would be called "fundamentals"
 
A good bonus is that you'll actually understand what P and NP mean :)
 
user1596138
!!define fundamental
 
4:13 PM
The point still stands - it's abstract theory, not low-level things
 
@Jhawins fundamentals plural form of fundamental
@Jhawins fundamental A leading or primary principle, rule, law, or article, which serves as the groundwork of a system; essential part, as, the fundamentals of linear algebra.
 
user1596138
Yup. Fundamentals. The ground work. The things that apply to all languages.
 
I think we all strive to learn an inspirational leading edge programming language that will allow you to construct a normally-1000 line program in 10 lines or less. That said, most modern languages that claim that are gimmics. Such a thing doesn't exist, at least not in any context.
 
!!define obvious
 
@BartekBanachewicz what point? No strawmans please I've never claimed low-level things are the most important or even among the top 3, they're just important.
 
4:13 PM
@IsaiahTaylor obvious Easily discovered, seen, or understood; self-explanatory.
 
!!s/Sipser/Knuth/
 
@adeneo @BartekBanachewicz go read Knuth, seriously, now, it's very readable very good introductory book. (source)
 
user1596138
5 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Jhawins what applies to all languages is programming language theory, and that's really not what most people mean when saying "fundamentals"
 
user1596138
This makes no sense.
 
4:14 PM
@adeneo "Knuth" is not a very readable book.
 
@towc nudge reasons
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum - I know, it's horrible
 
As in TAOCP
I wouldn't call it horrible, it just takes ages to read
 
I like reasons
 
Speaking of which, Knuth starts with MIPS assembly iirc, I read it a long time though.
 
4:15 PM
@Jhawins PLT is not concerned, for example, with the implementations (mostly)
 
It takes even longer to understand, but it's actually a good read
 
Yeah, I enjoyed it. I just think @BartekBanachewicz should read Sipser, I think he'd really enjoy it.
 
Also I hate you @Benjamin
 
Computational theory is beautiful.
@BartekBanachewicz 2.9
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Programming, less so
 
4:16 PM
You make me learn proper new things and then when I come back armed in theory you dismiss that basing on real life experience
 
@BartekBanachewicz - nah, he's just generally an ass
 
Though my experience is that true computer scientists are brilliant and usually can't program their way out of a wet paper bag
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh, you have my word that you will never apply anything you read in Sipser in a real life program.
 
That's kinda discouraging :P
 
However you will really enjoy it.
 
4:17 PM
Huraaay I learnt HTML today :(
 
@Neil this has not been my experience at all.
 
@FlorianMargaine i head php guys are working on a vm now
 
Sipser, huh. Okay.
 
@shortCircuit great now go learnt yourself some grammer
 
I'd say about 50% of good computer scientists I personally know are good programmers and 50% aren't.
 
4:18 PM
@FlorianMargaine i thought for sure that it was basically never done, and they ended up putting the worthwhile changes they were planning, in 5.4 and 5.5 instead
 
After I refresh Naive Bayes Classifier because I need that
 
@SomeKittensUx2666 morning
or noonish
 
user1596138
See, nobody really knows for sure. But we take @BenjaminGruenbaum's word on things as our resident over-thinker and he's usually spot on. Even if he gives you some shit. He either knows a fuck ton or he's really good with the way he carries himself through conversation. I choose to just believe he knows what he's saying 99% of the time :P
 
no, as long as I can speak code , I don't care grammar
 
4:18 PM
@IsaiahTaylor You're back! We didn't scare you off?
 
Also don't argue about php when I'm on my phone I want to bash
 
@Jhawins more like 50% :P
 
@SomeKittensUx2666 nope :DD you're stuck with me now
 
@BartekBanachewicz php is a reasonably designed, well thought out programming language.
HAHA
 
4:19 PM
If you're going to stick around, at least be redundant about it
!!mustache IsaiahTaylor
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Haha you know you're our genius of everything too in-depth to care about
 
My php-bashing abilities are severely reduced on a touch screen keyboard
 
Speaking of Naive Bayes, @AbhishekHingnikar did you read that SSS book?
@BartekBanachewicz having 11 functions that sort arrays discourages monoculture and creates diverse and robust code bases :D
 
@SomeKittensUx2666 if that command was supposed to stick a mustache on my profile pic, nice try. my pic already has a fake mustache.
 
user1596138
4:21 PM
@IsaiahTaylor he.... He said be redundant...
 
@BartekBanachewicz what data are you classifying?
 
oh, right. missed that lol
 
user1596138
lol
 
@Jhawins At least someone caught the joke.
 
@IsaiahTaylor Your icon struck me as freddy mercury at first
 
4:21 PM
<input type = "range" name="ninja" value=5/> how do I use a querySelector in place of getElementsByName()[];
//plz do not consider the min max and step in the range ..
 
@Neil ill take that as a compliment
 
@IsaiahTaylor *brofist*
 
querySelector('[name="ninja"]')
 
@Benjamin it encourages agriculture
 
oh hey! I got paid!
 
4:22 PM
@shortCircuit After getting the form - form.ninja
 
Literally no notification of paycheck. Weird.
 
@Benjamin emotions.
 
user1596138
@shortCircuit form.querySelector // HTMLDocument.prototype.querySelector
 
@BartekBanachewicz classifying emotions?
 
...........
...................__
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
 
4:23 PM
ok
 
Classifying emotions? You must be single and male, otherwise you'd recognize the futility therein.
2
 
arent we all single and male? isnt that kind of the epitome of the dev community?
 
@benjamin my new job is going to be emotion recognition. Starting end of next week :P
 
Not really, most devs I know are married
 
@BartekBanachewicz we're hiring
 
4:25 PM
@Isaiah do you use Haskell?
 
@IsaiahTaylor @Loktar, @FlorianMargaine, @BenjaminGruenbaum and I are married
 
user1596138
@IsaiahTaylor lol no we have @BadgerGirl
 
user1596138
And @towc is a girl too
 
@Jhawins once got a girl's number.
 
I have to get married
 
4:26 PM
@SomeKittens like you form a 4-marriage-tuple?
 
@SomeKittensUx2666 really now? well good for you. most of the programming things ive been to everyone is very, very single.
 
!!13yogirl
 
user1596138
@SomeKittensUx2666 lol was that supposed to be read as "Jhawins got a girl's number once"?
 
!!youtube I want to get married showbread
 
4:26 PM
 
Lol "very single"
 
@BartekBanachewicz TO OTHER PEOPLE!
 
@KendallFrey how was I not informed of that.
 
user1596138
I was engaged once.
 
@Jhawins and then you woke up
 
user1596138
4:27 PM
Nah... It was quite a bit messier than that.
 
Were you 8?
 
user1596138
I was 18
 
I remember that story
 
!!youtube Jason Derulo "Marry Me" (Official HD Music Video)
 
4:28 PM
 
I don't.
 
user1596138
It turned out badly. I'm glad we didn't get married. I shouldn't even have been dating her lol it was one of those fight 99% of the time but somehow it's still fun things. But those are trash
 
Jun 3 '13 at 18:39, by Jhawinsss
Don't get engaged to a 17 year old at age 18. That is my advice for life.
 
TIL console.trace(), sweet
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum thats how my parents were. and their fine :D
 
4:29 PM
That's how I was, I'm fine
 
Their...
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Holy shit an entire year ago now I said that
 
Getting married young has both advantages and disadvantages.
@Jhawins Now you're a year smarter and a year balder
 
So EDSLs for SQL vs string building.
 
@SomeKittensUx2666 I still do console.log(new Error().stack) :/
@BartekBanachewicz language?
 
4:30 PM
The one and only.
 
What sort of queries are you making?
 
user1596138
@SomeKittensUx2666 Actually I gained ~3" of hair. It's getting bad
 
4:30 PM
(As in, more reads or more writes)
 
More of both
 
PostGIS game thing
 
user1596138
I should make an appointment with my hair chick...
 
@Jhawins Yeah, I need a haircut too.
 
4:31 PM
And when I say the language assume Haskell :P
 
user1596138
Guess who's Mommy still cuts his hair :)
 
my hair chick lol
 
@Benji reasoning for this question?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Hmmm... probably string concatenation with prepared statements, with JS loading the query from an external .sql file so you can run and test them yourself in an isolated context.
 
@Jhawins My mom cut my hair up until I got married - now my wife does it.
 
4:32 PM
@FlorianMargaine which one?
 
@AbhishekHingnikar wassup (pseudo)bro
 
/me has never had a professional cut
 
whaat?!
 
i have cut my own hair since i was 10. and it looks darn good. suck it.
 
you're missing out man
I go every 2 weeks, get a head rub even
 
4:32 PM
@Benji the latter
 
on haircuts?
 
Hmm prepaeed procedures
 
@shortCircuit shooting ak47 and m16 in counter strike on linux
 
user1596138
@SomeKittensUx2666 lol yeah I've never had anyone else cut it. She likes to do it I'd feel bad if I stop letting her and it's free :P
 
Always forget about them
 
4:32 PM
@SomeKittensUx2666 well not standard hair cuts
 
Cool ..
 
is it safe to do pass Number to Array.prototype.map?
 
but if you go to someone whos awesome they will do head rubs/hot towel
 
My last haircut was when I thought my old company had a chance at funding, so that should tell you how long I go between.
 
like [1, 2, 3].map(Number)
 
4:33 PM
Yeah I think I'd be fine in having some logic inside of the database
 
@RalphWiggum Yah
 
Sure, why wouldn't it be?
 
user1596138
@RalphWiggum Umm.....
 
have you tried it?
 
Ruby superficially looks like js .... Objects everywhere
 
4:33 PM
.filter(Boolean) is another trick like that
 
I tried it, but I'm thinking there might be a caveat with it
 
@Ralph as long as it's not parseint...
 
@shortCircuit JS looks superficially like English. Text everywhere...
 
True
 
@BartekBanachewicz in Haskell I might use an EDSL, although I'd probably still use SQL since it's one less dependency unless you already know a good one. The transaction monad might be useful too.
(As in Tx)
 
4:34 PM
@KendallFrey it looks a whole lot more like english than this chat room
 
It depends :P
 
Having some trouble with my async control flow in node if anyone could spare a look gist.github.com/qcom/32e45e8e18820529ede4 (I'm using the pg and pg-transaction modules for postgres)
 
well guys, g2g. back to pretending i have a life.
 
Transaction monad sounds nice
Gotta look for that
 
good morning gentleladies
 
4:39 PM
But I still don't understand how Function.call.bind(Function.call) works.
Generally it can be translated like
function foo(obj) {
return Function.call.call(Function.call, obj);
}
If I am not totally wrong
 
bind returns a function
 
.call.call.call.call
choo choo
 
@cHao code was written and it was given up. But it still existed, so people are debating whether they should go with 7 or not
 
I know that, I read it like a 108 times
 
@FlorianMargaine never go with php
abandon ship
burn the fields
 
4:41 PM
It puts food on my table :p
 
So you have a reference to Function.call, with its this context bound to Function.call
 
hi @banani
 
I'd go with something else if I could, but the market isn't great in France
 
@BadgerGirl badger badger
@FlorianMargaine like, in the whole country?
 
@BartekBanachewicz mushroom mushroom
 
4:43 PM
SAVE THE BAAAAADGEEEER!
 
hello again
 
does MDN have best practices in their examples?
 
@mrzepka always wanted to ask, but slipped through...
 
@mrzepka Not necessarily, but usually yes
 
@mrzepka - it's more of a wiki, so not necessarily
 
4:44 PM
!!>[function (){console.log(1);} , function (){console.log(2);}].map(Function.call.bind(Function.call));
 
@Bartek yeah except Paris which is a little better, but not great. And you have to want it to live in Paris...
 
for example, is document.body.onload = functionName() good practice?
 
@shortCircuit ["undefined","undefined"] Logged: 1,2
 
@Shmiddty please explain it ...
 
I found it funny that Scotty outputs "Setting phasers to stun" when running on a port different than 80.
 
4:45 PM
!!>[function (){console.log(arguments);} , function (){console.log(arguments.callee);}].map(Function.call.bind(Function.call))
 
What is Scotty, and why does he have a phaser?
Get back in the transporter room and make me an atom sandwich!
 
@KendallFrey a minimal web framework
 
@shortCircuit ["undefined","undefined"] Logged: {"0":["function (){console.log(arguments);}","function (){console.log(arguments.callee);}"]},"function (){console.log(arguments.callee);}"
 
Who knows, god knows
 
Anyone know of any way to inspect element (like in chrome) on a Samsung Tablet in the default "Internet" browser?
 
4:48 PM
tabletscript
 
trying throwing your tablet against a wall
 
Only possibly on ipads, sry
 
@shortCircuit tablet.js is better imo
 
I've done that a couple of times @Ralph
 
Definitely ...
 
4:49 PM
thanks
 
module Todo.Views.Index where

render = do
  html $ do
    body $ do
      h1 "My todo list"
      ul $ do
        li "learn haskell"
        li "make a website"
woah
that's peculiar.
 
and tabletui.min.js
 
that is ridiculously funny imo
 
@BartekBanachewicz those dos everywhere are ugly :D
 
What's the right way to insert a DOM element after creating it in javascript?
 

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