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4:00 PM
ES5 still allows it
 
then presumably also null could be changed
 
strict mode doesn't
 
@Neil null isn't a variable
 
@FlorianMargaine - nope, undefined is read-only in ES5, but you can define a local with the same name, that's where the issues come from, and it's also why you can use it as an argument in an IIFE.
 
@Zirak undefined is a variable?
 
4:01 PM
And its value is undefined
I don't get it either
 
It should have been a reserved keyword !
 
Someone needs to create a bot that scans all the internet's javascript code searching for extremely bad ideas and then spamming the domain owner with angry emails...
 
undefined was a kludge for some specific problem way back IIRC. I google.
 
I had to google "kludge"....
 
=
 
4:03 PM
@twiz me too.
 
Old c++ trolling trick was to throw #define false true in some hidden header file and watch your friends turn red with frustration >:)
 
user1596138
 
user1596138
As effective as undefined, same idea.
 
@twiz hope I spelled it right. ES5 blocks assignment to undefined apparently.
 
4:04 PM
Basically a messy quick fix?
 
user1596138
Messy yes
 
user1596138
Doesn't have to be quick
 
c++ is evil like that
 
@ErikReppen - it doesn't block assigment (well, it sorta does), but the global undefined variable is read-only, however a local undefined variable will override it in that scope etc. so there's the possibility of being screwed if you do something strange.
 
It's nice though that while undefined was passed, NaN and Infinity weren't.
!!> (function () { var Infinity = 4; return Infinity }())
 
4:07 PM
@Zirak 4
 
user1596138
Like document.writeing HTML strings... That is a BS kludge
 
@Zirak - I guess what you pass into the IIFE depends on what you need, if you don't have to check anything against undefined, there's no need to pass it in as an argument, same goes for NaN and Infinity, how often do you really use Infinity ?
 
user1596138
@Zirak Pfft. Only because of scope. It's not likel you can overwrite the Infinity
 
@Jhawins ...place that in global scope...
@adeneo And it's stupid either way
It's obsessing over a ghost of a problem which may happen not really.
 
Nope
 
user1596138
4:09 PM
@Zirak The new variable you've defined, which is scoped to that function is 4. The real Infinity is still Infinity.
 
If you really obsessed over undefined, you'd have used void
 
@Zirak - Depends on what you're writing, if you're writing a jQuery plugin that could be used by millions of people, why not make sure that the values you're working with is what you think they are.
 
user1596138
Eh whatever.
 
@Jhawins "undefined" Logged: "Infinity"
 
Or... that people are not retards and change undefined
 
4:10 PM
@Zirak - And yes, void is a reserved keyword that can't be changed, so void 0 is always undefined.
 
user1596138
But you'd have to be a total retard to define a variable as Infinity.
 
user1596138
Or have never used any type of math in JS
 
@Jhawins - And there's one born every minute ...
 
@adeneo Because there's no way out of it
 
So what exactly are you guys trying to do?
 
4:11 PM
How can you trust anything on window? Or on document?
 
user1596138
@adeneo Then I say this is a design advantage. Helps weed out the idiots.
 
@Jhawins - exactly !
Just look at the questions on this site, people do strange things
 
Sure, you're making sure nobody does window.document = 4, but oh wait, what about document.createElement = function () { throw new Error(); }
 
If you define a variable called Infinity, the data type takes precedence
Infinity = 4; 7/0 === Infinity;
 
It's a stupid gesture.
 
m59
4:13 PM
I've been using IntelliJ IDEA, but I only use about 1% of all it can do. I'm looking a text editors instead, but I can't find one that does basically the only think I want - continuous auto code formatting.
 
user1596138
But it's not like you can actually change the value of window.Infinity
 
m59
Anyone know of a text editor that does that? (Enforces a configurable code style)
 
@Jhawins Thankfully with ES5, no.
 
user1596138
@m59 Sublime? What type of formatting? Usually when I want a bracket I type a bracket, or if I want a tab I hit tab. What do you want done for you?
 
@m59 jsbeautify does that
 
4:14 PM
@Zirak - so basically what you're saying is that keeping your code in a closure with it's own scope, and aliasing certain native things to make sure they aren't changed, is stupid ?
 
@adeneo If you're thinking it'll keep you safe, you're stupid, that's what I'm saying.
 
user1596138
You can't even add properties to it
 
It will at least keep your code somewhat detached, and it minifies great ;) ....
 
m59
@Jhawins so, obviously auto-indent, but just as an example, in html, I can tell it not to indent the body tag and stuff. In js, I can tell it to keep { on the same line, etc.
So, if I paste some garbage code, it formats it to my style
 
Your code already is detached, and if you're doing the minification jig, you're probably already doing it somewhere else as well
 
4:16 PM
@m59 - paste in to jsFiddle, hit "tidy up" ?
 
This is the closest thing to an explanation on undefined goofiness I could find:

http://www.2ality.com/2013/05/history-undefined.html
 
m59
Yeah, I'm just used to having IDEA do it all for me, all the time. It's really nice.
 
user1596138
@m59 Can't do that in sublime. I wish for a tidy up function. Check out the packages though there may be one
 
m59
There is a plugin for it, but not one that enforces it.
 
user1596138
@m59 Oh, because that's silly.
 
4:18 PM
I use brackets.
Well, I use Visual Studio for C# at work.
 
@Zirak - guess it's a matter of opinion, I'll still keep wrapping code pieces in IIFE's like that when I feel it's advantegeous in some way.
 
Nothing about why it didn't get to be its own keyword though. Didn't know it converted to NaN too. That's really odd.
 
@m59 How many times have you pasted strange code into yours?
 
user1596138
When you want code formatted you should have to select that function or do a shortcut. Constantly autoformatting with multiple line rules sounds like hell.
 
m59
maybe not much, lol.
 
user1596138
4:19 PM
How about EsFormatter?
 
m59
Well, I'm using brackets right now and it's sucking at formatting altogether
 
user1596138
It has loads of config and it turns out there's a ST plugin now
 
It's a minor feature. Look for more important things.
 
user1596138
Support this ^
 
4:20 PM
is this room about JavaScript?
 
Number(undefined) === Number(undefined) < -- false
@eazimmerman Yes. And ADD. Lots of ADD. Wait, what did you just ask?
 
@ErikReppen - because NaN != NaN
 
1 min ago, by eazimmerman
is this room about JavaScript?
 
@adeneo I know. You never forget that after the first time that bites you.
 
!!Is this room about JavaScript?
 
4:21 PM
@NickDugger Not a chance
 
user1596138
But yeah honestly I'd just paste your code into a beautifier if you really need to. When you're debugging that bracket with an extra space before it is the least of your problems :P.
 
I think the worst thing ever in the language was implicit octal. It took me an entire day to realize only the date values with 08 and 09 in them were breaking when parseInted.
 
I've never used a beautifier before =/
 
user1596138
25
Q: Why does `isFinite(null) === true`?

JhawinsThe following are examples that make sense to me. isFinite(5) // true - makes sense to me, it is a number and it is finite typeof 5 // "number" isFinite(Infinity) // false - makes sense for logical reasons typeof Infinity // "number" isFinite(document) // false - makes sense as well, it's no...

 
user1596138
@RUJordan lol I only do before I actually push something
 
4:26 PM
I used jsBeautifier with Ace editor for a personal project. It was a bunch of buttons and a dialog box. People would fill out the fields, and it would generate the JS for you, then it would run the beautifier on it.
 
user1596138
I'm not so much worried about the exact format of my or any code as I am about consistency in formatting
 
user1596138
I use a beautifier to check my consistency
 
I ran the beautifier in my example because I didn;t want to keep track of \t characters in the string that I put into Ace
It made it much easier.
 
Pft. Or you could just write beautiful code in the first place brah
 
user1596138
The "Stack Overflow Code Beautifier" extension for Chrome is nice. Has the simple needed options and will format whatever you select anywhere on any site.
 
user1596138
4:29 PM
I try ha, but it's not worth my time to go back through and manually check on things. That's silly
 
We're in gallery again?
!!mute
 
user1596138
10 hours ago, by SomeKittens Ux2666
@BenjaminGruenbaum bjb is like having your own pocket troll that you have to swat with a newspaper occasionally.
 
Oh yeah, you bastards didn't remind me to show my function override stuff
glares at @monners
 
I've never used beautifiers. I've always been pretty anal about formatting. Sucks when you're sharing code with a variety of editors in play and nobody can settle on tabs or spaces or actual number for tabs.
@Zirak I'm interested.
 
4:31 PM
Will doc and gist, one sec
 
lolol I missed the fun
 
@Zirak I have to go in for an eye appt soon, but I'll definitely hit the link when I get back if you post it.
 
user1596138
I can say I've never had a dispute about the number of tabs to use. If someone really wanted like 3 tabbed indentation I'd probably just leave the project.
 
You have an appointment with an eye?
 
Yes. And hopefully some overpriced contacts.
That I can get before next Wednesday.
 
4:34 PM
So you go into some office...sit next to a desk...and there's an eye on it.
"Hello eye".
Silence.
"It's been a while since we last met."
Fly lands on eye.
Time well spent.
 
It's cheaper than a shrink and you get similar results.
 
what's the best jerky anyone has ever had?
 
Honestly? Probably in the 8th grade. Hottub style
 
:p
like beef jerky
 
@Shmiddty The random stuff in a mason jar that you find in small-town general stores
 
4:40 PM
^
 
Sorry I couldn't resist lol
 
the stuff in the bags is too moist
I like a dry jerky
!!s/ky/k/
 
@rlemon I like a dry jerk (source)
 
4:42 PM
got an exam in 30 minutes
time to read the lecture slides, I guess
 
If there's one thing I've learned from SlideShare, it's that slides are not enough to learn anything.
 
stupid groupon, telling me about things I can't get
I'm not big on sweet jerky
 
Bluebird :


I Promise you a Callback,
One shall resolve or may reject,
But when you call then,
We know we will meet again.
 
@RyanKinal neither are the lectures tbh
easier to poop on though
 
Is there a school that is 100% lab work 100% of the time?
 
4:47 PM
No
That'd be a lab
 
@Shmiddty So you never have to learn anything
 
are we doing haikus?
 
You just instinctively do stuff
 
var semicolon
my automatic insertion woes
@fat is silly.
 
@Zirak yeah man just mix things at random until something explodes
 
user1596138
4:48 PM
Does anyone live in Seattle?
 
There are many people living in Seattle.
 
I guess
Haven't heard of mass desertion yet
 
You guys didn't hear about the plague of Seattle?
they all dead
 
w00t! tandem smart-assery ftw.
 
Oh my
And The World Didn't Give A Fuck.
 
Alright. Off to the eyeball meeting.
 
Who really lives anywhere?
 
this was classic.
 
I live in Seattle
!
 
Must be tough with everyone dead
How do you get pizza?
 
4:50 PM
@Zirak You have to make it yourself
 
user1596138
@RalphWiggum Yeah?
 
@RyanKinal The dog :(
@Shmiddty Surely you're joking
 
@Jhawins Yeah! Well, I am actually currently in Bainbridge Island, which is an island a ferry ride from downtown
 
user1596138
So your minimum wage is now $15/hour?
 
4:51 PM
@Zirak I know. Having to hang around with Will Smith. Poor pup.
 
@Zirak It's not that hard, once you know what you're doing
 
user1596138
What does that do? If minimum wage here was increased to $15/hour I'd want a raise.
 
@RyanKinal Good thing there aren't any eyes
@Jhawins Apparently it causes a plague which kills everyone.
 
@Jhawins sadly (here at least) that likely wouldn't happen
 
user1596138
Because I could make close to my salary at McDonalds instead
 
4:52 PM
So as the last surviving programmer in your area, you deserve a raise.
 
I have no idea TBH
 
@RalphWiggum why isnt there a bridge
 
will smith used to be awesome, but instead of his coolness rubbing off on his kid, it's the other way around
 
@Meredith Too far away, although there is a bridge on the north side
 
@Jhawins when I was younger and worked close to minimum wage, when it was increased as long as I was still above it no employers cared
 
4:52 PM
@Meredith You receive 7 internet points
 
user1596138
Or pushing carts at walmart. I'd do that again for $15/hour
 
Raising minimum wage, theoretically, stimulates the economy. More people buying more shit. People being able to, you know, live.
 
user1596138
How can the cost of living in the area not skyrocket?
 
@RyanKinal and it is raised only after a cost of living increase
 
@RyanKinal Idea: Increase minimum wage to $100/hour.
 
4:53 PM
they should be more proactive about it
 
user1596138
Businesses paying double for salaries, sounds like double the prices, so double everything now is al it sounds like.
 
user1596138
Sounds like an instigated inflation
 
it is
 
user1596138
So that fucks everyone
 
Raising the minimum wage is a reaction to inflation.
 
4:54 PM
and it is how the system has worked for my entire life
 
the minimum wage was like $10 or $11 before, so it's not a huge difference
 
And due to the economy of scale, prices will not double.
They will likely go up, but not even close to doubling.
 
@RalphWiggum nah it's like a mile off-shore
 
Minimum wage going up means less hours for those people to sustain costs
 
user1596138
Doesn't it? That's just like saying "Alright guys now $2 will buy what $1 used to. And you make $2 for every $1. It's fixed"
 
4:54 PM
@RyanKinal which came first, chicken or the egg?
one is chasing the other constantly. I would say both react from eachother
 
Actually I think the problem is that there really isn't anywhere for a bridge to connect to
 
@Jhawins That's inflation
 
Min. Wage = $7.25 here, and they want to hike it up to $12. Where is that extra $5/hr per wager coming from?
 
It's like 2 miles from the south end of BI to West Seattle
 
People making more can result in inflation
 
4:55 PM
@rlemon Well, right, but minimum wage, for the last few decades, has not kept up with inflation.
 
user1596138
@Zirak Yeah, that sounds like what we're doing with the minimum wage right?
 
@RyanKinal which brings me back to my statement. they only increase it after the cost of living increase hits a tipping point
 
user1596138
I need to get a remote job for McDonalds in Seattle on the weekends
 
@thefreeline Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
but the cost of living increase has a direct correlation to the amount of money in an area
 
4:55 PM
people who make minimum wage are typically a burden on the economy anyway, as long as they spend it on crap nothing changes except how they feel about themselves
 
I've honestly thought about getting a weekend job
But I like my free time
 
user1596138
@Mosho You seriously just said that?
 
also, the cost of living in Seattle is really fucking high
 
user1596138
Holy fuck
 
minimum here is like $10-$11 bucks?
 
4:56 PM
I was about 35% serious
 
I can't remember
 
school ends tomorrow for me!
 
user1596138
Minimum here is $7.25. I worked for Walmart for 19 months and made $7.85
 
then 3 months of vacation
bet you miss those
 
@Jhawins that is "Walmart" everywhere
 
user1596138
4:57 PM
I worked on a farm when I was 14 for $10.
 
I do miss summer vacation, but I do like being able to afford rent..
:P
 
@Mosho The point is that it doesn't really matter what they spend their money on, it's that they're spending money.
 
user1596138
I was only making $12 here until last week
 
@RyanKinal yeah, I agree
 
user1596138
Starting Monday I can afford rent :)
 
4:57 PM
@t1wc Student -> 12 months of vacation
 
the waltons are just terrible people.
 
@rlemon Absolutely
 
@Jhawins the thing is, were you a net gain or loss for the "economy"
as a cart-pusher
 
user1596138
And have a house nailed down. 3 acres in the country in a 3 bedroom ranch house. $750/month
 
@RUJordan well, aren't you missing having your parents pay the rent for you?
@copy can't argue with that
 
4:58 PM
 
lol
not those waltons
 
:-D
 
but they are pretty terrible.
 
posted on June 05, 2014

var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www."); document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E")); try { var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-3727700-1"); pageTracker._trackPageview(); } catch(err) {}

 
!!wiki the walton family
 
4:58 PM
@rlemon The Wikipedia contains no knowledge of such a thing
 
user1596138
@Mosho I was a student who needed to make money and did a job that needed done so that by 17 I could be a dev. So short-term, I wasn't a burden on the economy. And longterm I'm going into a career field so I'm a gain.
 
fucking liar!
 
@Jhawins I started working when I was 16 (legally, I mowed lawns in our neighborhood since I was 10 and made BANK SON lol) and minimum wage was $5.15. Then, 11 months later I asked for a raise, and they bumped me up a whole $.10! Then.. next month, minimum wage goes up to $6.25, and they counted that as my raise. I was so butthurt
 
I'm aware of which Waltons you're talking about.
But, due to the fact that my dad loves that fucking show, they're not the Waltons that immediately spring to mind.
 
@soqls Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
user1596138
4:59 PM
@RUJordan Hahaha that sucks. Yeah I made bank mowing cemeteries under the table for the city during school hours at $10 no taxes
 
Richest family in the world. greedy as fuck with it all and treat their employees like shit
 

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