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12:17 AM
Fun! The Why can't we have nice things? website indicates I've voted against more RFCs than everyone except Stas (expected) and Derick (also expected).
But I didn't realize I'd be #3
I think often times people just don't vote when it already looks like it won't pass. I don't know.
 
12:29 AM
@LeviMorrison I'm really not sure about their stats. I'm pretty sure I have more than 1 rfc passed.
 
12:52 AM
@Danack Oh, it's definitely got some errors.
Not sure about purely missing data as well.
 
1:03 AM
@NikiC Yep, it produces a ?, just as before. The code is the same as in the XML extension, I just stripped out the support for other encodings.
A fun thing I keep discovering is PHP's source code often contains multiple implementations of the same primitives. The HTML functions implement a good bit of multibyte stuff, not just for UTF-8, but for Shift_JIS and stuff too. Yet we also have extensions for that (mbstring, intl). And PCRE also handles that. And there's also Zend Multibyte. And so on.
Likewise, until I merged them together, PHP had at least three different lists of HTTP status codes, all out of sync.
I kinda wonder if I couldn't reimplement UString as a native part of the Zend Engine without using ICU at all. Many of the pieces are already in the “core” :p
anyway, goodnight folks
 
UString reminded me of github.com/krakjoe/ustring
 
Wes
that reminded me i still have to answer andrea in the issues i opened there :B
 
 
2 hours later…
3:15 AM
I have a question
I using laravel 5.2
I Login susscess with auth/login => AuthController
but after I request with url: domainxxx.com/auth/login
laravel auto redirect to hompage, however i edited protected $redirectTo = '/admin';
but it not redirect to /admin
 
pastebin.com/KRL3QJ9n

could someone tell me why my index.php isnt responding?
 
3:43 AM
@Pigman168 you included jquery 2 times ?
 
4:05 AM
all good i fixed it, but no thats not the problem
why would that be the issue? o.0
@Valentincognito
 
morning
and happy rebecca day
 
Wes
@Valentincognito coz jquery is never enough
 
@Pigman168 Including 2 jquery could be a source of problems
true story
 
Wes
> Including jquery will be a source of problems
 
4:35 AM
mornings
 
4:46 AM
'nin
 
Wes
 
mornin Joe,Ronni,Wes
 
Wes
yo
that's like the only nin song i know. and this youtube.com/watch?v=kuoFiIFkdAA
never been a fan but now that i hear them again...
 
5:03 AM
I've got a pretty stupid question about PHP frameworks like Laravel and Symfony
I want to build a really simple CMS for a website I am going to sell the script of and I was thinking of using Laravel. The question is, when do I remove the framework after I make the site script, or does each person who buys it have to install laravel themselves just for the site to work?
Or, is it that they can upload the files and it works fine but if the want to make any PHP changes they have to use Laravel to do so?
 
you are not ready to sell software, you are not sure how software works ...
 
the framework is not the wrapper of your muffin that you throw after you eat it... so, the muffin is all your code whether it is a framework or not at it's base.
why muffin? I don't know
but mornings
 
Wes
ahahah
great example :B
 
moin && hehe
 
: )
oh it's finally friday
 
5:19 AM
yay
 
if($hours<0)
{
echo '0';
}
i want to insert 0 in query how to do that
 
which query?
 
$updatequery="UPDATE `inquirydata_dummy` set `day`='".$interval."',`hours`='".$hours."' WHERE inquiry_id='".$inquiry_id."'";
$update_query_run=mysqli_query($connect,$updatequery);
if($update_query_run)
{echo "success update";}
else{echo "uncusee update";}
 
the first bit should be more like
if ($hours < 0) $hours = 0;
I think ...
 
thank you let me try this if it is work i tell
 
5:24 AM
in 2016 what SMTP mail server is good on linux / centos ?
 
Lol I swear I know PHP I just never used a framework before
I did like your muffin example though I feel like there wasn't a better way to make me visualize what a framework isn't
 
if you're going to make a really simple cms why would want any sort of full blown framework though
 
@Ekin frameworks are the php magic sauce, with them, you go fast, without them, you do not ...
 
It would be really easy to code normally but I wanted to learn a framework so I thought I might as well try to build it with one
 
you could build the necessary parts in a modular way, use well tested libraries aaand composer
@JoeWatkins heh sure, sure
 
5:29 AM
:)
 
flying spaghetti codes
 
I guess I'll end up doing that and then just learning Laravel for a more complex app
Or just learning Laravel building an example app I just feel like time could be used more efficiently
 
You imagine a framework to be a thing that you place at the center of your application and build around it, creating something beautiful ... we imagine a framework to be the polar opposite, making a huge ruddy mess of the building, obscuring the view, and generally making everything worse ...
imagine the people who built that scaffold only needed to get to one window on one floor ... they have no choice but to build the whole scaffold, and if any part of it is broken, the whole thing collapses ...
framework are not magic sauce ...
 
I guess what you're trying to say is that it wouldn't make something simple more simple but it would help for something more complex (something that you would need to get to almost all of the windows, in your example)
?
 
there are other ways to scale buildings is what I'm saying ...
 
5:38 AM
lmao
 
So, no reason to install a set of libraries when I only need one or two
 
yes, as @Ekin already said, components are the way to go ...
 
Thanks! I will go ahead and make learning Laravel a side project then
 
5:42 AM
@Alesana without looking it up, do you know what SOLID is ?
 
Nope
 
instead of taking a prefabricated framework and trying to learn how it does all the things (and whether it does it properly or not) learn how to build parts of an application in layers, abstraction and other important concepts
 
honest, I like
 
Yeah if you didn't put the "without looking it up" part in there I might have said yes
@Ekin Yeah, I guess I have a long ways to go..
 
: ) well, there is no limit/end to learning
 
5:48 AM
\o
 
o/
 
I hope you listen, you are the one billionth person to come to this chatroom and ask that very question, and we have tried to reason with every one of them ... a lot of the time this falls on deaf ears, and they revert to "yeah, but how do I do X with Yframework" ... it seems like we used words you understood ...
here is a non-stupid thing to read about putting your applications together without the use of a framework, but don't try to do any of it until you understand all of it ... and it's not so difficult to understand, the people who write frameworks are not wizards ...
 
Yeah I definitely understand what you guys are saying.. I am always looking to improve even if it means taking a step back. Thanks for the link I was actually going to ask if you guys knew any good resources for learning from the base up
 
That's exactly what a wizard would say.
 
5:53 AM
which one gordon?
 
@Alesana a good attitude to have :)
I might use this conversation as the basis for a future blog post ..
 
@Porlune the one I just linked obviously. It's cheap. Only $1k/month
 
You should send me the link for your blog! I'd be interested in reading it
 
LOL
 
heh it even says, "If it is too much for you, it is not for you"
 
5:55 AM
So cheap they are using a four letter TLD.
 
dawn arrived, taking dogs down beach, lata all
 
enjoy
 
Have fun
 
o/
how nice, I should take Ace to the beach sometime soon as well
now that spring is here..
 
on a more serious note: Did you know Slack is written in PHP… or well… Hack apparently.
 
6:02 AM
I thought most companies that size use php for at least some of their backbone
 
Hey you must have gotten that from Reddit :P
 
Facebook actually
I dont use reddit
 
Ah.. that same article is on the top of the PHP subreddit!
 
Good morning you pretty people
 
aw....
mornings \o
<3
 
6:11 AM
@Epodax be nice. say hello to @PeeHaa, too please.
 
:D
 
Sure thing, Good morning @PeeHaa you ugly bastard :D
5
 
o/ how to get location of user using socialite in laravel? if anyone can help me...
 
@Gordon But there is! If a woman is lighter than a duck or geese then she's a witch!
 
6:18 AM
@Epodax I always knew Victoria Beckham and Kate Moss are witches! And the Olson Twins.
 
Aw shoot, can't edit my line anymore oh well - youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g (NOT Rebecca, I swear it on a Undefined index)
 
how to count visitors
with query
 
@SagarNaliyapara Well, did YOU find that from reddit?
 
can any body help me
 
6:29 AM
@falak did you google your first sentence? because I'm pretty sure you'll get starting points with that
 
ekin your talking with me ??
i dont think so
i already tried but dint get proper answer
 
@Falak You're simply trying to count the number of visitors on a site?
 
actually i find total iquery data inserted
 
total visits/logins per user?
 
use something like google analytics :/
 
6:33 AM
yes
 
@Alesana no i find it somewhere else
 
Ah it must be popular then :)
 
\o
 
6:35 AM
stil dint get proper anser
 
@falak It's simply that we don't understand what you're asking
 
if I ask server admin question related here , am I in trouble ?
 
depends on our mood
 
6:41 AM
my mood reached rock bottom
 
OUR mood, not yours :D
 
my client doesn't have a server admin guy and the hosting company they chose for their web server doesn't have an admin panel where I can do stuff like adding a DNS entry
anyway Im trying to configure a mail server to send email with PHP
but I am not good with centos / dns / mail server / keyboards...
 
You're not good with keyboards? :O
That must suck as a dev.
 
long story short I am stuck.. I installed postfix and cyrus
but I think Iam missing DNS entries to be able to properly use mail.domain.com
 
morning
 
6:48 AM
I know there is not questions yet
 
But like the keyboard is lierally the number one tool for using the computer
 
@Valentincognito maybe contact the hosting company that they should set the dns entry ?
 
I am thinking how to formulate this witth words
and a keyboard
 
what is your problem with the keyboard :D wtf ;D
 
I mean I would say it's the number one tool for development is a keyboard but really it's the number one tool for anything related to a computer
 
6:49 AM
@Alesana What about the mouse?
 
It's possible to do everything without the mouse (keypad) but if you're without a keyboard.. well you can still use the on screen keyboard but I think it would be slower than using just a keyboard
 
Good luck tabbing your way around everything.
 
or you just wait until you're a level-4 programmer (context)
 
I mean I'm not saying a mouse isn't important I'm just sayihng the keyboard is more important
 
@Alesana I disagree :P
@Ekin Heh
 
6:53 AM
@Ekin thats a cool graphic ^^
 
So you can set your numpad to act as a mouse, 4 will make your mouse move left, 6 will go right, 8 up, 7 left-up (diagonal direction), etc... and 5 will click.
I don't know lol I've actaully been in both situations where I've had a keyboard but not a mouse and where I've had a mouse and not a keyboard
 
joking aside, is the following statement correct: In order so send email through PHP, outside my localhost, to the world, I need the following: a mail server and a properly set dns mail.domain.com entry.
anyting else I am missing ?
 
I thought this was interesting: robinlinus.github.io/socialmedia-leak
Even stackoverflow itself tossing out info
 
> PHP stands for “Personal Home Page.”
I thought we were taking it seriously ...
 
@JoeWatkins it used to. It's now PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor
 
7:01 AM
: )
@JoeWatkins well, he links that to php.net/manual/en/history.php.php
 
Although it's supposed to be recursive, I like to think of it as: Personal Home Page: Hypertext Preprocessor
 
#PHP: Programming Hypertext by Permutation, since 1995
hack isn't the successor to anything, it will eventually become totally obsolete
 
I'm still waiting for Perl to die : p
 
@Ultimater :(
 
7:09 AM
shit
 
wow
 
I like him, he looks docile ...
 
docile... til, but indeed
 
He looks cuddly, like one big teddy bear.
 
they're interesting animals
Fatso the Fat-Arsed Wombat was an unofficial mascot of the Sydney 2000 Summer Olympics created by Sydney cartoonist Paul Newell with Roy and HG from the Australian Channel Seven sports/comedy television program The Dream with Roy and HG, which covered the event. He took the form of a life-size stuffed toy wombat with a lazy, cheerful expression and comically pronounced rump, and usually appeared on The Dream broadcasts on Roy and HG's desk. Fatso was a spoof of the official Olympic mascots Olly, Millie, and Syd; whom Roy & HG disparaged as "Olly, Millie and Dickhead". He was nicknamed "the battlers...
ha
 
7:17 AM
@Epodax <3
Mornings yall
 
o/
 
yohaa
 
@DaveRandom Do nothing still means exactly that?
Do nothing not even try to catch it?
It would suck to have to add more catches I think everywhere
 
Hello, I need to learn OOP PHP better and eventually frameworks. Is php.net good for that? Only the introduction has 3 small paragraphs and it already has 8 links. Do I need to read all the contents of the links to proceed to the next chapter? What if the links have links?
 
7:21 AM
no, google SOLID and GRASP. And read Fowler's book about Refactoring.
 
@Gordon I get the feeling php.net is actually a good start for OP before even thinking about those
 
@PeeHaa maybe.
 
If you're talking about me I also tried phptherightway.com, but it has that same wikipedia style linking that leaves me confused whether I should read all the links before proceeding or not.
 
unrelated but, is this understandable enough?
 
@Nadroev Do you understand what said links are about?
I.e. not "yeah I have seen that words once or twice", but "yeah I can explain in my own words what it means"
 
7:28 AM
I don't think so, but since it's the introduction one would assume that they will also be mentioned later.
 
Well for example php.net/oop jumps mostly within the oop section itself
Also note that's not really about oop, but rather about classes and stuff
But you would need to know about that stuff even before beginning to think about oop
@Ekin Yeah I got it when I read it in nothing to see here
 
fwiw, the chapter on OOP in the PHP manual mainly explains "what" is there in PHP and a little bit of "how", but not "why", let alone "proper" - whatever "proper" is.
 
Anonymous
mornin
 
hey @JayIsTooCommon
 
Anonymous
o/
 
7:32 AM
So even after reading all of it I'll probably be just as confused when I read something about how to use a framework.
 
user6619012
can anyone please tell me is this link following oops [objects & classes] : mycodingtricks.com/php/…
 
@Nadroev The difference being is that when reading that stuff you learn something you can use throughout the language. When reading about a framework you learned something about that specific hype of the year
 
@PeeHaa oh thanks, I'm kinda afraid it has way too much explanation
 
moin
 
moin
 
7:35 AM
mornin
 
@user5348fh8y5 That has nothing to do with oop
 
Anonymous
@Nadroev When I was learning OOP, the link that @PeeHaa gave you was my starting point. I went through each chapter and when I didn't understand something, I took the time to research for examples/explanations instead of just skipping. Even if there was one word or phrase that I didn't understand, I would stop and go look it up and wouldn't proceed until I understand :)
 
@PeeHaa you only need to catch it if you need to handle the case where a message was not posted. If you don't catch it, a stack trace will be logged... maybe we could suppress that?
 
@Ekin Maybe poll another random person cc @JayIsTooCommon
 
user6619012
@PeeHaa thanks & but i saw some "functions" in that link, can we use functions without using OOPs also
 
7:36 AM
@PeeHaa No, I mean I started reading about how to use a framework and it was like "First open your terminal" (my what?) "then start composer and do these things" (nobody mentioned composer before) and so on.
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa Just because you know I'm mentally challenged by big words. I'll give it a read @Ekin :)
 
thanks :)
 
@user5348fh8y5 Do you know what OOP means?
@Nadroev Learning how to use composer is kinda useful either way though
 
user6619012
which means that you can create objects, which can contain variables and functions. @PeeHaa
 
It's either that or we try and post a message, but I just feel like that will be equally annoying in almost all circumstances and it's also non-trivial because of the fact that we'd have to post a message from the message post queue, there's a circular dependency there and what happens if you try and post 2 identical error messages in a row?
 
7:38 AM
@DaveRandom Maybe a trace isn't so bad in that case anyway
 
it seems to me like this should be exceptional
 
Wes
mornings \o PeeHaa when you have 2 min chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/33473052#33473052 thanks :B
 
user6619012
@PeeHaa so i thought we can use functions only if we use OOps....
 
We can always catch it way up if the traces get annoying and just dump Dupe message instead if needs be
 
if a plugin is trying to post 2 identical messages in a row, it's an indication there's something wrong with the plugin
@PeeHaa yes, this
however as I say, I think in most cases the code that tried to post the dupe can be modified to avoid the problem in the first place
 
7:40 AM
@JayIsTooCommon s/big/
@user5348fh8y5 How are you creating objects from functions?
 
@JayIsTooCommon is this you?
 
Yes that's the kid
 
Anonymous
@Ekin Makes sense to me :) Interesting too.
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom aye
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa lol
 
7:42 AM
@user5348fh8y5 functional programming?
It's a thing you know
I don't like it, but it's certainly a thing
 
> You've invited JayPHP to Stack Overflow - PHP Chat! They'll be receiving an email shortly. They can also visit github.com/Room-11 to accept the invitation.
@JayIsTooCommon ^
 
Also s/like/understand
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom cheers :)
 
user6619012
okay as that link is not using oops, i will ignore that link, thanks @PeeHaa
 
Happy friday all!!! youtube.com/watch?v=TRIOj4yM3uM (no rebecca)
 
7:44 AM
@JayIsTooCommon alright, thank you :) I'm planning to have a repo full of such things sometime soon
just for reference
 
> Question: What state are the doors in after the last pass? Which are open, which are closed?
@Ekin mixed state
BAM! solved!
 
:D
 
Anonymous
noice
 
Anonymous
!!wotd
 
mutable: given to changing; fickle or inconstant.
 
7:48 AM
fickle. I like that. I will call it fickle state from now on. And will refer to mutators as ficklers.
fickler methods FTW
 
@Gordon solid.
 
heh right
 
@DaveRandom that as well
and used
 
Also Maine
(in my head, it's Jessica Fletcher solving the problem)
 
user6619012
@PeeHaa if it is a "method" than we can conclude it is OOPs, if functions use outside classes, than it is not following OOPs, thanks......
 
7:50 AM
@PeeHaa I got the xsd! but when comparing it's failing now because my xml doesn't contain all the items (some are not needed) is that a problem in that xsd or?
 
@user5348fh8y5 no. just because something has a method doesn't make it OOP. That's exactly the problem. Just because someone used Classed and Methods doesn't mean the code is object-oriented. You can write perfectly procedural code with Classes and Methods. OOP has principles and patterns.
 
Anonymous
> There seems to be some compatibility issues with your system and the EdgeHTML rendering engine in the latest Windows 10 Windows Insider (beta) build
 
Anonymous
It seems that the new beta build is yet to be compatible with css
 
@user5348fh8y5 No you can't. OOP is not about wrapping functions in classes
err what @Gordon said
@Gordon hahahahahah awesome
 
user6619012
7:57 AM
@Gordon you mean : "someone used Classes and Methods is oops but not 100% object oriented" , am i right ?
 
object oriented programming means that you use an object to encapsulate the logic and the data structure of some thing. That thing could be literally anything. You might right an OOP class to represent a car for example.
 
"someone used Classes and Methods is" is more likely to be poop
 
lol, this started to happen a lot, and it counts backwards:
> krakjoe pushed to master at krakjoe/ui 34 minutes from now
 
@user5348fh8y5 if by oops you mean *oops, I did it all wrong"
 
It's a style of coding, not where you put your functions.
 
7:58 AM
@Porlune write*
 
@PeeHaa poop is the perfectly valid acronym for PHP object oriented programming
8
 
lol true
 
lol
 
@PHPeeHaa poop is the perfectly valid acronym for PHP object oriented programming
 
7:59 AM
@user5348fh8y5 I am repeating myself, but google SOLID and GRASP and read Fowler's book about refactoring
 

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