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7:00 PM
@NikiC "the [...] new feature in PHP 7 is Scalar Type Hints"
Scalar Type Hints are a thing, but the feature is Scalar Type Hints
 
yeah
now it's clear ^^
 
hmm
afk, TV
 
I like how everyone on the thread just go "Yeah, just download this extra bit of software"
> Lol nope, I'm going to go contribute to jQuery instead.
 
7:22 PM
@MadaraUchiha lol, these replies you've got there:
> And I'm not sure Whether I want someone messing
> arround with the language that powers 80% of the WorldWideWeb who isn't
> able to get his tools set up properly. But that's just my 2 arrogant cent.
 
@marcio That is arrogant
Very arrogant
I've never heard of a news client before today.
Does that make me less a qualified developer? Or less a qualified language designer?
No, it makes me a younger developer, with a fresh perspective, and no patience for old and outdated technology
These comments I'm getting on that thread would have been the same even if the mailing list were held over freaking fax.
 
It sounds like a Donald Trump quote... - let's build a wall - or worst.
 
@PeeHaa I think it should have an additional string $key.
 
@kelunik That is going in the actual implementation
As a ctor argument
* I think
 
Ah yeah, sounds reasonable
 
7:27 PM
Also, I just stumbled on this rustlang RFC github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/1219 :>
 
Alright, I've spent more than enough time on this thread
I don't even use PHP that much
You want awesome internals? Argue about it :P
 
@MadaraUchiha meta-discussions are fun, no?
 
@bwoebi I don't mind meta discussions
But these people are using fax and refusing to move forward to doing stuff over the internet
That's how I see it anyway
"Use a news client", yeah, sure, hold your breath
 
@MadaraUchiha that's still a thing? xD
 
Did you follow the thread?
Half the responses are like that
 
7:33 PM
@MadaraUchiha sorry, I'm not going to poke the vespiary, not on the only day I actually have some free time.
 
I'm currently still reading.
> The entire process took two days, mainly due to timezone differences.
 
@MadaraUchiha Yeah, totally. All people are just like bugs.php.net's interface.
 
mhmhm… I wish that's not the case for a language… but yeah… I see what you want to say
@kelunik seriously, the bugs.php.net interface is nice. The only thing which sometimes is bugging me are linewraps with links…
 
Btw, I decided not to apply for a git account (for now) mainly because I don't want to enter the mailing list rabbit hole, I currently have no time to thrown on trash can.
 
@bwoebi woot, there's nothing nice about it.
 
7:35 PM
i made a a script that compare dates but what about how it continues compare dates means don't need to refresh again and again any idea??
 
@kelunik it does it's job and I don't miss functionality.
 
@bwoebi you have a php.net account.
 
@kelunik … yeah? I'm still using the same interface than you, except that I have a few more possibilities like e.g. closing…
 
user895378
@MadaraUchiha :(
 
@bwoebi you can't even login without one.
 
7:37 PM
@kelunik What do you need a login for?
 
e.g. to see all bugs I have reported, subscribe and unsubscribe to bugs, etc.
 
@kelunik look into your mailbox?
 
I have to choose a single time password for each bug...
 
@kelunik A great idea.
 
@bwoebi Why do I have to have a look at my mailbox for that? There's a reason I never report bugs, but just post them to Two Crowns.
 
7:39 PM
It actually makes it superfluous to need an account.
 
Lester doesn't like change. News at 11
 
@bwoebi Totally not.
 
@kelunik what's that reason?
 
@bwoebi Because E_BUG_SYSTEM.
 
@kelunik E_INVALID_REASON
 
7:40 PM
It's hard to follow things and have an overview to things you're interested in.
Oh, and I can't subscribe to other bugs I've not reported.
 
@bwoebi just noticed you already fixed #70179, thanks. I wonder if we really need this ZEND_CALL_RELEASE_THIS flag.
perhaps it's a step for something else IDK.
 
@marcio why do you wonder?
@kelunik I can't either… but I never felt like that functionality was missing.
 
@bwoebi If I add a comment, am I subscribed automatically then?
 
@kelunik I believe so.
 
@bwoebi because things seemed simpler without it.
 
7:44 PM
@bwoebi So, how to unsubscribe then if my comment has been answered?
 
@marcio you mean whether we need it at all? Don't know.
 
@bwoebi yes. But guess this was a step before something else, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.
 
@kelunik I mean, you can (un)subscribe under the add comment section… Don't need to add a comment.
@marcio I don't exactly remember the circumstances, why Dmitry added it.
 
script that compare dates but what about how it continues compare dates means don't need to refresh again and again any idea??
 
@bwoebi Well, yeah. Anyone can subscribe or unsubscribe me.
 
7:47 PM
Looks like half the threads at internals.rust-lang.org seems useless, so it might be a good replacement for a mailing list. The really important things are all on github.com/rust-lang/rfcs.
 
@kelunik yes. But I've never seen that being misused though…
 
Abe
8:26 PM
how about using a phpbb or whatever the cool kids use nowadays?
 
@Abe I doubt a forum is the right tool?
 
Abe
just for discussion?
forums also have polls, thread/post voting. a proper search
 
to search, juts use google, hehe
 
@Andrea :-)
@DaveRandom currently looking at your libdns… having a hard time to find the real code between all the OO overengineering...
 
8:36 PM
@Andrea removing the "[...] It's a story of big egos, backroom dealings, and betrayed principles - but mostly just political nonsense [...]" was a good idea.
 
flex
@Abe actually using whatever it is nginx uses to sync it's mailing list with a forum wouldn't be that terrible....except for the fragmenting of mesages - forum.nginx.org/list.php?2
 
Abe
@Danack that's not actually a step forward, imho :P
 
gods below, this chat room made me delusional
 
Abe
looks confusing as hell
 
I made a quick dip in ##php today
it's like being taken back 8 years in the past
 
8:46 PM
@tereško because IRC or because the people?
 
the people who are looking for help there are like from a different planet
@bwoebi I'm using IRC all the time
 
Abe
you see, we aren't the worst kind of noob after all @tereško :D
 
it's the skill level that is terrifying .. especially for the people who "help"
 
@tereško yeah, don't know… hence the question^^
 
8:56 PM
@marcio yeah, it hyped things up too much and was a bit accusatory
@Abe some places were built with no paths, and then they put them where people walked after a while
 
in HTML / CSS / WebDesign, 2 hours ago, by Stephan Muller
@crl Related: Michigan State University didn't pave any paths between the buildings on their campus until it was clear where people wanted to walk (by letting them walk over the grass first, paving their own paths). The result is this: https://i.imgur.com/SYhTKDI.jpg
5
 
Abe
^ :D
 
9:40 PM
hmmm, I'm wondering if adding this feature to the manual will help encourage better learning in preparation for PHP 7
damn, this ast stuff is a bit wonky
 
@Sherif which feature?
 
Try practice question 2 as an example
So you could take examples in the manual and try them out directly on the site
And it gives you feedback and suggestions as it analyzes your code
Still nowhere near production read yet though
 
@Sherif neat!
 
:)
Used some of @NikiC fancy AST work
 
ah :)
@Sherif Unfortunately, for the second one, if you returned "1" or something it'd still be accepted
because weak typing mode will even cast return types
 
9:49 PM
@Andrea No it wouldn't
Oh, it doesn't care about strict types there
It tests your code independently
 
function wordExists(String $needle, String $hayStack) : bool
{
	return (int)(strpos($hayStack, $needle) !== FALSE);
}
works
 
so, has anyone ever butted heads with w3schools before?
 
(my fault)
@ScottArciszewski w3fools.com
 
@Andrea Because PHP just casts it back to a bool
 
9:50 PM
w3fools, etc
I want to make things better :P
 
@Sherif yeah, that was a bad decision on my part
 
@Andrea Why? It's useful.
You wrote the prototype to return bool.
Why wouldn't it just cast it to a bool for you.
 
@Sherif because you have complete control over what type you're returning
why do you need it to convert for you?
 
That's debatable.
 
I just think it's more likely to mask errors than be helpful
 
9:52 PM
@Sherif obviously I tried the wrong argument order for strpos()… .
 
@bwoebi heh, I do have automation tests for it that checks to see if you reversed the argument ordered, but that live version doesn't return those hints just yet.
So it will actually help you out when they make common mistakes like that.
 
@bwoebi yep...
I'm tempted to try and actually implement strpos() myself for that
 
@Andrea That's it. It doesn't help anything finding bugs and silently hides the real bugs by casting types (like null) to a bool.
 
@bwoebi yeah
whereas argument casts are useful, I guess
 
Anyway, does anyone else think such a thing will be useful in the manual?
Because I'm half tempted to make it happen.
 
9:54 PM
oh well, I kinda doubt that can be fixed
 
@Andrea yep.
 
@Sherif Yes, very useful
Some new languages teach you them this way
 
It's already built as an API so it would integrate quite nicely on any site.
 
@Sherif that's a great idea.
 
cool, now all I have to do is throw away the prototype and start actually working on it :D
easy, right?
 
9:55 PM
Would be great if the manual could replace a lot of shady tutorials (as it hopefully will be #1 in google results)
@Sherif Just like every project ever!
 
The cool part, I think, is that you can actually teach people useful things this way. It's not about contrived examples anymore, because you can inspect the code like a human would and provide constructive criticism, but through an automated tool
 
function wordExists(String $needle, String $hayStack) : bool
{
	for ($c = 0; $c < strlen($hayStack); $c++) {
        if (strlen($needle) < strlen($hayStack) - $c) {
            for ($d = 0; $d < strlen($needle) && $c + $d < strlen($hayStack); $d++) {
                if ($needle[$d] !== $hayStack[$c + $d]) {
                    continue 2;
                }
            }
        	return TRUE;
        }
    }
    return FALSE;
}
 
Which is how I've always wanted a tool like this to work.
 
It works. Huh.
@Sherif don't throw away the prototype!
refactor it
 
@Andrea and now compare performance to strpos() variant, hehehehe
 
9:58 PM
strpos() would be better, because it's in C :p
 
how much slower is it? 100 times? 1000 times?
I'm guessing around 300-500 times slower.
 
@Andrea Yea, I'm throwing away the implementation, not what I learned ^^
 
@Sherif no, why throw away the implementation?!
Is it beyond redemption?
 
Because the point was to learn something from it. The code is worthless to me.
It's the idea that matters.
 
alright
 
10:02 PM
@SebastianBergmann when are you going to release a new phpunit minor to include php-code-coverage 2.2?
 
10:14 PM
No to figure out all the security implications :D
muwahahahah
 
10:25 PM
Morning guys
How can I ORDER BY date if it's datatype is CHAR ?
 
You convert it to Date type?
 
@Sherif How ?
I'm this:
ORDER BY CONVERT(datetime, Date, 103)
 
No, you change your schema to properly reflect it's type.
 
But it gives me an error
@Sherif Any temporary solution for now ?
 
Why do you need a temporary solution when the permanent one is readily available?
 
10:29 PM
@Sherif Cause If I do so then I have to change too many queries
 
Huh?
Why do you have change many queries?
 
Dozens of functions in PHP... :(
 
By fixing your schema you would NOT have to change your queries (if they're already using ORDER BY). That's my entire point.
If your schema properly used a Date type the queries would just work.
It's YOUR solution that's going to cause you to have to change your queries.
Because you're ignoring the actual problem and trying to focus so hard on NOT solving it that you are by definition creating more problems for yourself. Just fix your schema. An single ALTER TABLE would take less time the entirety of this conversation.
 

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