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6:00 PM
make another administrator, log into that new administrator, force change the real account password, login as recovered account, win
 
sbi
@doug65536 On my machine (XP Pro from which I am logged into the chat) there's net user. (Only available on servers.) On the XP Home machine, both user and useradd are invalid parameters.
 
Xeo
Did you try ctrl-alt-del yet in the login screen?
 
I r the backs
there's a session this evening and I figured I'd put some time in working on the Unicode stuff
LEWG might still have time to take another look
 
Xeo
Tell us of the tragic tales of the standard.
 
sbi
@Xeo I am in the repair console. This is a slow machine. I won't reboot just like so.
 
6:03 PM
then your only choice is boot cd/flash drive
 
@DeadMG Overall impression for the day? Was it exhausting?
 
@Xeo Well, frankly, I was quite surprised, the LEWG opted for a much less flexible design.
 
this looks like the one I used that worked
 
@LucDanton Not really.
 
Xeo
9 mins ago, by Xeo
http://pogostick.net/~pnh/ntpasswd/
 
6:04 PM
frankly
 
POGOSTICK DOT NET
 
I expected that the voting members would lord it over the rest of us
but the LEWG was very democratic
 
Xeo
@DeadMG I'm really wondering why. And also how they plan to seperate the unicode algos from the encoding strings.
 
I figured someone already posted a link
 
6:04 PM
That's what's called a "pogo" in Canada.
 
Xeo
Don't make me hungry now
 
@EtiennedeMartel Is it good?
 
You know how 80 characters used to be the preferred line limit, and many editors have a configurable line display to show where this is?
 
@Xeo Apparently, they had a few Unicode experts around about a year ago or so who said that they had to have just one Unicode string type.
 
Xeo
huh
 
6:05 PM
they also professed the need for random-access iteration (?)
 
Xeo
eh.
That sounds horrible
 
yeah
 
Xeo
because non-constant random-access sounds horrible
the fuck
 
but the LEWG didn't seem to care about that
 
Wat.
 
Xeo
6:06 PM
Show 'em ogonek.
 
quite so much
 
Random-access for Unicode strings?
What kind of crack are they smoking?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Tell them that they might aswell give std::list random access
 
and btw, you can have O(1) random access into Unicode without requiring UTF-32.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Oh?
 
6:06 PM
@LucDanton It's surprisingly flavorless.
 
I built such a structure myself, if you recall
it's very similar to std::deque.
 
Xeo
I don't
 
That is surprising.
 
user142019
DeadMG is not only the binmaster but also the datastructuremaster.
 
user142019
Soon he'll invent O(1) random access for linked lists!
 
6:07 PM
I don't understand how you can do that.
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg Store iterators in a std::vector<Iterator<std::list<T>>>
 
By definition, the code units can be variable-width.
 
user142019
@Xeo lolllll.
 
user142019
That seems extremely… silly and pointless. :v
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg Guess what the unordered containers do.
 
6:08 PM
@Xeo Forgot a typename
@ThePhD Turns out that that doesn't really matter.
in a deque-like structure, it's irrelevant how much space they take up as long as there is a bounded maximum.
 
user142019
@Xeo Oh. :v
 
and all Unicode forms have such a bound.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG There may be such a maximum, but it's not always completely used, so how would O(1) random-access work?
In deque, all middle blocks are full
 
@Xeo It doesn't matter if it's used. The bound is the upper bound for access- you may have to iterate c*bound number of bytes.
where c is constant.
so if bound is also constant, the upper bound for the number of bytes iterated is also constant.
 
Xeo
But what if, say, block 3 isn't fully filled, and I index into that unfilled part of it?
 
6:11 PM
you can't
the filled-ness is expressed in terms of codepoints.
c is in codepoints, bound is in codeunits.
each block of the deque holds c codepoints
 
Xeo
I must really be missing something here.
 
with a fixed size of c*b bytes.
 
user142019
Ah.
 
user142019
So, you have at most n code points per block?
 
user142019
Then you can do some arithmetic to determine which block to access, then iterate that block?
 
Xeo
6:12 PM
Oh, wait, upper bounds and stuff
yeah, I think I get it.
 
Isn't that near-constant-time, not constant time?
 
Xeo
You iterate, but only a known number of times that doesn't depend on the size of the range, so O(1)
 
You're still having to do some checks when you get to the correct block, don't you?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Remember: With a large-enough upper bound, everything is O(1) :P
 
user142019
Is that amortized O(1)?
 
Xeo
6:14 PM
No
 
user142019
Ohlol.
 
O(1) doesn't mean it's fast, it means that as the number (of items) goes up it doesn't get slower
 
user142019
Right.
 
user142019
But if you use a deque then you don't have the UTF-8 sequence as a single contiguous byte string, right? You will need gaps. I mean, as in the memory layout.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG: So, random-access is feasible, albeit wasteful and not contiguous. What about the algorithms?
How do they plan to seperate them?
 
6:16 PM
Doesn't that violate the standard?
Don't strings have to have contiguous memory in C++11 ?
 
Xeo
std::string != whatever::encoded_string
 
Oh. Right, this isn't a replacement.
Also, btw, what's string_view ?
 
Xeo
string_ref
 
oh.
So LEWG renamed it to string_view ?
 
Xeo
Well, it is a view into a string
And not just a reference to one
But really, it's all bike-shedding
 
6:19 PM
Meh.
So they rejected ::encoded_string
That's just unfortunate. =[
@DeadMG Do you have their rejection letter? Or do they just not send you one because they're assholes?
 
they don't send you a letter, they just tell you in person what's wrong
they would accept a revised version but they almost certainly won't have time to consider it for C++14
also, Xeo, turns out our papers just fell through the cracks
I will be putting mine back on the agenda and yours too
send me a link to your updated revision
 
Xeo
Cool
Sec
 
^ Awesome
 
What horrible titties. =[
I don't get encoded_string until C++25?
Damnit.
 
@ThePhD You could always just write your own... It doesn't have to be part of the standard.
 
6:24 PM
But ogonek doesn't work MSVC q_q
All my tearz.
 
user142019
You are using MSVC and complaining that things don't work.
 
user142019
Pick either.
 
Pick both. <3
Like tabs AND spaces. <3333
 
user142019
Better yet: pick neither.
 
6:27 PM
@ThePhD meh one-system-only projects
 
Xeo
/me stealthily sneaked in another update
 
user142019
 
@Zoidberg What's that? Is that a gyro?
 
@EtiennedeMartel But you guys wouldn't hurt me. <3
 
user142019
It's a wrap.
 
6:29 PM
@Zoidberg . . . .
 
@EtiennedeMartel Punpunpunpun.
 
A gyro ( , ; , , lit. 'turn') is a Greek dish of meat roasted on a vertical spit. It is also commonly served in a sandwich, called pita gyro or psomaki gyro depending on the type of bread used, with tomato, onion, french fries and optional sauce, wrapped in pita or sandwich bread. To make gyros, pieces of meat are placed on a tall vertical spit, which turns in front of a source of heat, usually an electric broiler. If the meat is not fatty enough, strips of fat are added so that the roasting meat remains always moist and crisp. The rate of roasting can be adjusted by varying the stren...
I don't care about your jokes. SERIOUS MODE ENABLED.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel possibly.
 
@ThePhD You're safe -- but in this case, only because we don't know here you live!
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Doesn't look like it.
The slices are too thick
And the wrong texture
 
6:30 PM
@JerryCoffin Yay, anonymity!
 
@Xeo Yeah.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel We call it gyros in Dutch. I was confused with gyroscope. :v
 
Xeo
Looks more like beef
 
Hence my question.
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg Also Gyros in German
 
6:31 PM
@Zoidberg Guess why it's called that way?
 
user142019
It's a random picture I found on /b/. I don't know what it is.
 
Xeo
Damn guys, now I'm hungry
You suck.
 
Because the meat is cooked on a spit while turning.
 
user142019
While you are hungry, I'm gonna get myself a bag of luscious crisps.
 
Xeo
500 rep till 55.555
 
user142019
6:32 PM
@Xeo bounty!
 
@Xeo That's a great looking rep count you got there. Would be a shame if anyone... downvoted you.
 
Xeo
lol
 
user142019
Fixed.
 
Xeo
490 rep till 55.555
:P
 
Can anybody take a question?
 
Xeo
6:34 PM
 
user142019
@Xeo nope.
 
sbi
355 rep till 77,777
 
Xeo
He will take ALL your questions.
 
sbi
:P
 
Well, I was looking at my IDE...
 
user142019
6:34 PM
∞ rep until Jon Skeet due to repcap.
 
And I was wondering, how does it calculate where the line that is 80 characters out is, if the characters are of variable length?
 
=[
 
Xeo
If you program in non-monospace font, you're terrible
 
Er, variable width, I should say.
 
I feel so horrible now.
 
user142019
6:35 PM
Huh?
 
user142019
Use a fucking monospace font.
 
I want to answer questions but I rep-capped.
Why would anyone on SO impose a rep-cap?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Answer anyways
 
It's not like it's any kind of money.
 
@Pawnguy7 what?
 
6:35 PM
@Xeo But. But but. I'll lose reeeppp. ;~;
 
Take this:
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Because Skeet would've overflown the rep counter already otherwise.
 
user142019
@ThePhD not if it gets accepted.
 
user142019
Or gets upvoted tomorrow.
 
See the line?
 
Xeo
6:36 PM
OH GAWD
 
user142019
Plonk.
 
Xeo
KILL IT WITH FIRE
 
user142019
No Comic Sans in the Lounge.
 
I don't want to hear about good code or bad code, before you start.
 
@Xeo What is it only stored as an int32 or something?
 
6:37 PM
You starred that? Sigh.
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 That code is terrible.
 
sbi
@Pawnguy7 If you don't want us to tell you how bad your code is, then why the hell are you posting it here?
 
Don't worry, I got this.
 
Xeo
:8865269 The break is completely unnecessary and only introduces clutter
 
user142019
Use a static const unordered map and return by const reference.
 
Xeo
6:37 PM
Also, maps
Maaaaaps
 
@sbi I asked if you saw the line. That was the fastest example code on hand.
 
or just an array.
Also, reading sbi's answers is fun. :3c
 
But, do you seriously write in Comic Sans?
 
user142019
He's trolling.
 
It had been my font of choice with C::B.
 
user142019
6:38 PM
You are an idiot lack taste.
 
Really, though, did you see the line (before the picture died)
 
sbi
@ThePhD Answers to what?
 
@Pawnguy7 what line
 
@sbi To everything. But especially stack overflow answers. :D
 
user142019
My font of choice is Menlo. (Y)
 
6:39 PM
The 80 character limit line.
 
user142019
Oh God I wrote code today. On paper.
 
what about it
 
@Zoidberg I prefer Consolas, because I'm totally unoriginal.
 
anyway, time to code Minicraft proper
 
fonts are overrated
 
sbi
6:40 PM
@ThePhD I never answered everything. If you find an answer to everything claimed to be given by me, then that#s a fake.
 
How can you calculate where the line is with a non-monospace font?
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Consolas is nice, but I prefer italic comments and Consolas italic lowercase L is… abysmal. :(
 
@Pawnguy7 you don't code with a non-monospace font
 
alright
I left a note on the Evolution group about N3617 and I'll pop in tomorrow morning to give them a poke about it
 
sbi
@DeadMG So are you in Bristol, puppy?
 
6:41 PM
Can we please get over the fact everybody hates the font and just answer this in a technical matter? :\
 
yep
I had four papers, presented one, and the LEWG ripped it apart in a surprising fashion
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Coolio, thanks
 
Comic Sans galore!
 
@Pawnguy7 what? If you use nonmonospace font for coding you are terrible and nobody is gonna answer ever
 
sbi
6:41 PM
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Pawnguy7 you don't code with a non-monospace font
 
@Zoidberg I don't use italic or bold for my source.
 
user142019
I do. :P
 
sbi
@DeadMG Are you staying at the Merriot?
 
no
but I am there right now
 
user142019
I have bold keywords.
 
6:42 PM
@DeadMG Woa.
 
the Merriott is way too expensive for me
 
@DeadMG maybe it was some kind of a revenge for an insta bin in the past? (think I found a bin script btw)
 
That is like you choosing to never, ever answer a Java question. Or, in Zoidberg's case, a C question.
 
Vincent Connare (born 1960 in Boston, Massachusetts) is an American font designer and former Microsoft employee. Amongst his creations are the Comic Sans font and the Trebuchet MS font, both of which ship as standard on current releases of Microsoft Windows and Mac OS, with Comic Sans being the most popular. Besides text typefaces he finalized and hinted the font Marlett which has been used for scalable User Interface icons in Microsoft Windows since 1995 and created portions of the font Webdings that was first shipped with Internet Explorer. He currently works in the UK for Dalton Maag,...
 
sbi
@DeadMG That's what I was wondering about. Have you already found the pubs on King St? :)
 
6:43 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah. Turns out that the LEWG didn't favour flexibility, for once.
 
I can't believe this guy managed to develop my favorite font along with Comic Sans.
 
@sbi Not really my thing, but there's a perfectly good pub by Temple Meads I'm more familiar with.
 
@ThePhD To reward people for being on the site a lot.
 
user142019
Comic Sans is not a bad font per sé, it's just abused.
 
@Pawnguy7 no. Java questions can be good. Yours is terribad. Can you get over it?
 
Xeo
6:43 PM
@DeadMG I'm really interested in the robot's reaction to this
 
@DomagojPandža We all make mistakes once in a while.
 
@Xeo He'll be gobsmacked.
 
sbi
No wonder this is the best-visited committee meeting ever. Even puppies are allowed in.
 
the LEWGs reaction was totally unlike what I got on isocpp or from basically anyone else.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Once in a while? I do it all the time.
 
6:44 PM
@sbi Over a hundred delegates.
 
sbi
@DeadMG The Stag and Hounds?
 
and the Library section has twice as many proposals as the previous meeting, I believe.
@sbi No, it's a Wetherspoon's.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Bjarne said they had 103 registrations.
 
user142019
> You have to run 'configure' first.
 
not everyone is here right now
 
6:45 PM
hey, decoda is now opensource
that's neat.
 
user142019
cabal-dev. Y U NO run configure for me.
 
user142019
@DeadMG I can confirm—I'm at home.
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg It's like pulling the sword from the stone. You just have to do it yourself.
 
the Merriott is swanky
 
sbi
@DeadMG The LEWG is brand new, after all.
 
6:46 PM
@sbi And surprisingly unattended.
lots of people said they wanted to attend the LEWG but then didn't show.
 
Does VS2012 highlight all class names in all languages?
 
sbi
A lot of subgroups/study groups meeting at the same time, so my updates may be bursty. #cxx #wg21
Maybe that has something to do with that?
 
lots of people from Google and EDG
a few from Microsoft
nVidia, that kind of thing
 
sbi
@DeadMG Lots from Bloomberg.
 
@sbi Yeah, we had seven subgroups meeting simultaneously.
 
Xeo
6:48 PM
@sbi "bursty" would imply more than one update.
 
@Pawnguy7 is this a day of stupid questions?
 
Why is that invalid?
 
Xeo
@Mysticial: Shoot me an anime recommendation for weekdays, all the stuff I'm watching is on the weekend.
 
> all languages
 
frankly
 
6:49 PM
@Xeo Nyarlko-san
 
Xeo
That's sunday
 
tomorrow morning, I am available, so if any of you have requests for subgroups or papers to look for
 
@Xeo Oh it is? I DL'ed it today. :)
 
tomorrow afternoon I'm in Library presenting N3573
 
Xeo
@DeadMG There's this paper I'm really interested in...
:P
 
6:50 PM
Wednesday morning it's back to the LEWG for N3575
 
I didn't know it was ambiguous. I could closer specify that to C++ I suppose.
 
@Xeo That won't be scheduled tomorrow morning.
 
@Xeo Red Data Girl
 
Xeo
@DeadMG I know
 
Well, well.
 
6:50 PM
as you know, all the subgroups have more papers than they can look at
 
Xeo
Ye
 
all I'm saying is that if any of you lumps have a special interest in any proposals
 
sbi
@DeadMG Wow, that be more rooms than the conference had. (We had five simultaneous tracks.)
 
@EtiennedeMartel They're currently busting up a HUGE voting ring in . Many of those members voted outside the ring.
 
@DeadMG I am cool enough with saying how cool friends influencing C++ I have
 
Xeo
6:51 PM
@sbi It's a shame one can't attend all of them
 
@Mysticial Woa.
 
@Mysticial ... those are a thing?
 
@sbi We had three big rooms upstairs, one in the Empire suite, and three smaller ones downstairs
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Buddy read the first 3 light novels, doesn't seem to stay / get very good after the first one :/
 
@LucDanton we are a thing, lol
 
6:52 PM
16
A: Got weird message and lost 5 reputation; what does it mean?

Brad LarsonAs Seth indicated, when a user account is deleted, the votes they cast are removed from the system. In this particular case, we uncovered a fairly massive ring of users who had been committing vote fraud in [iphone] and [ios] for the last two years. Most of these accounts were removed, as well a...

 
sbi
@Xeo I suppose that he expects to post whatever was decided when he hears about it. And when he's not in so many sessions, he can only hear about those afterwards. Hence he'll post in bursts.
 
Correction: It's and
 
> If it makes you feel any better, I just lost 225 points from the removal of this same group.
Damn
 
@sbi Well, since I have access to the interim output, so I can view the results of any paper which has been discussed
 
@Xeo Hataraku Maou-sama! -> Comedy Romance
 
sbi
6:53 PM
@DeadMG We had the Bristol I-III (also unified for keynotes), the Empire, and the SS blahblah.
 
Moral of the story: stick to and avoid iPhone and iOS altogether. :D
 
@sbi We also have the Wallace and the something else.
 
@ThePhD hey, that's my tag! :)
 
@Xeo Photokano: A bunch of pervs with cameras.
 
@BartekBanachewicz And I'm in it! <333
 
Xeo
6:54 PM
@Mysticial Is it good for anything other than fanservice?
 
@ThePhD sigh Yeah, loads of newbs lately :P
 
the Concord
 
sbi
@DeadMG That would be Gromit, I suppose? :)
 
@Xeo Too early to tell.
 
and apparently Empire is three rooms
so Bristol 1-3, Empire x3, Wallace, and Concord.
 
6:54 PM
@ThePhD oh, 2 tag score.
 
@Xeo Railgun Season 2
 
Core, Evolution, LWG, LEWG, SG4, SG1, SG6, SG10
all met today
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Yeah, I counted that in on the weekend stuff, since it's friday after work.
 
sbi
@DeadMG That makes 8 rooms for 7 subgroups. Are you sure you know everything going on? :)
 
@Xeo Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru.
 
Xeo
6:55 PM
Obviously I'm watching Railgun :P
 
oh, and SG5
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm working on it. =[
 
@sbi Each of the bigger Bristol rooms can fit more than one subgroup.
 
@Xeo Arata Kangatari
 
@DeadMG I would find the papers targeting parallel algorithms and simd stuff very interesting, but then that's probably just me.
 
sbi
@DeadMG You mean they have two groups in the same room?!
 
@Xeo Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge: Doesn't look very interesting though...
 
@ThePhD well, good luck. You can earn a lot of rep explaing how to use rotate/translate :P also textures
 
Xeo
@Mysticial That sounds kinda interesting
 
@sbi The rooms seat 40 each, and the subgroups are only 10 members large.
also, not all the subgroups sat for all the day
 
6:57 PM
@Xeo DATE A LIVE: I think it's Friday though...
 
sbi
@DeadMG But wouldn't that be totally confusing to have to simultaneous discussions in the same room?
 
Xeo
Puppy, got a list of papers that will be discussed tomorrow?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I lost rep for trying to explain it to people. =[
Specifically, that goddamn Java guy.
I'm never answering a java question ever again. =[
 
@sbi The Bristol rooms are big enough that you can't really hear what the other subgroup is saying.
 
@ThePhD well, if you don't know how to fix their problem, just say "use shaders"
 
6:58 PM
@Xeo Not really. They're sorted by subgroup and then some subgroups have more definitive schedules than others.
 
Xeo
I guess strong typedefs would be interesting, but then again, the requirements for those are kinda controversal... so eh
implicit template parameters maybe?
 
by the way
do you know of a paper by Beman Dawes w.r.t. Unicode?
apparently he posted one in ... Portland
 
Xeo
That's the filesystem guy
 

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