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5:00 PM
Sigh.
Do you know that is an ongoing effort that is close to completion?
 
Xeo
He forked the Puppy's code.
 
Yes. And I want to use it myself.
 
(Thanks puppy. No thanks for the broken request)
@Xeo Ah. Ok.
 
Xeo
And the Puppy's code was not close to done, it seems.
 
@Xeo I forked the main tree. DeadMG's pull did next-to-nothing, as far as my compiles told me.
 
5:01 PM
@rogcg The problem (IMO) is that work on standard libraries has become fragmented. If I'm not mistaken, there are three separate open source standard libraries. They've duplicated a lot of effort, but AFAIK, none of them is complete...
 
@JerryCoffin Why'd they splinter? Philosophical reasons?
 
@Xeo It was only missing some UCD data, according to him.
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Which ones? libstdc++, libc++, ???
 
@ThePhD The only problems remaining with the code when I pushed it is the Unicode literals.
@Xeo STLPort
 
@ThePhD For libc++ vs libstdc++ yes, licensing.
 
Xeo
5:02 PM
@DeadMG Isn't that thing dead or something?
 
user784668
@JerryCoffin Four. Two of them seem dead, though.
 
@Xeo No idea.
 
... Maybe I'm just not forking right.
I'm going to try to clone DeadMG's pull request again.
 
@ThePhD I don't know how good is VC++'s support of list initialization.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes And general suckiness of the libstdc++ codebase, from what the libc++ website says. :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not there.
 
5:03 PM
From what I heard here, it was more like buggyform initialization.
 
@Fanael Yeah -- I didn't count STLPort, but I guess it does make a fourth. In any case, lots of semi-duplicated code, but still no one that's really complete.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Terrible, I couldn't really do it with my Vector class either (without some serious modifications)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What? :(
 
@DeadMG Come on, I have to diff everything by hand to see what changes.
@ThePhD Then you are screwed.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see that: you use initializers everywhere. ._.
 
5:04 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just rename them back to .h++, diff them, and then put them back to .hpp or whatever.
 
@DeadMG You could keep them .h++ ?
 
@ThePhD I guess you can replace {list go here} with coded_character<blah>({list go here}).
 
user784668
What's the difference between NFC and NFKC?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I take that back, the basic return {...} seems to work atleast. And X x{...};
 
@ThePhD Apparently VS sucks, so he could not.
 
Xeo
5:05 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Puppy just sucks.
4
 
@DeadMG This si your fork, right? bitbucket.org/DeadMG/ogonek
 
@Fanael The latter uses compatibility decompositions, the former only uses canonical ones.
 
@ThePhD Yep.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah. And what's the difference between compatibility decompositions and canonical ones?
 
@Xeo Well no, VS doesn't really support .h++. I added it to the extensions in Tools > ooptions and it kicked in regular C++ support, but Visual Assist refuses to recognize .h++ either, meaning most of my easy-refactor renames and moves and shit are now manual-ops.
Doesn't recognize, or just doesn't want to work with .h++
 
user784668
5:07 PM
@ThePhD .h++ is for hackers, honest people use .h.
 
@Fanael I like to think of it as enhanced honesty, you know, .honesty++
 
Xeo
@DeadMG For what reason did you have to rename them again?
 
user784668
@Xeo VS sucks.
 
because VS won't recognize them as an actual header
 
Xeo
3 mins ago, by Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Puppy just sucks.
 
5:09 PM
@Fanael Compatibility does stuff like decomposing ① to 1, or ℍ to H.
 
I found like, three separate settings for what the file is and I set them all to C++ header and it still won't act on them
 
They are not very useful.
 
@Xeo They both suck. But puppy sucks more.
 
=l
@DeadMG Your ogonek doesn't include the tests in the Project1. How can you know if this shit even compiles?
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes IOW, compatibility decompositions break stuff and canonical ones don't?
 
5:10 PM
it's called "Push the "build" button"
tests are for run-time bugs, and I didn't change any of that behaviour
 
@Fanael Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable description.
 
the compiler cries if you make a mistake on any of the things I changed
 
@DeadMG Tests are also for actually instantiating templates.
 
user1182183
stupid intelli sense... operator = needs to be a member funciton, ok let's put it into the struct, error too many blabla -.-'
 
user1182183
ok got it working ;>
 
5:12 PM
 
user784668
Eclipse y u want me to haz git?
 
I'm... just. Going to... work on this.
 
huh
turns out that setting does work, it just won't tell you that you need to restart Visual Studio
oh well
 
@Fanael A good example of that "breakage" is given in the standard annex: 2⁵ NFCs to 2⁵, but NFKCs to 25.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes You fail at refs. Now you don't.
 
5:14 PM
...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, not all your header files were directly included from the one source file.
so I didn't actually change anything in some of them, since the compiler reported no errors
 
Because tests.
@ThePhD If you get it working, lemme know.
 
oh well
you only asked me to check and see how viable it was, anyway
 
@Fanael Unicode includes some characters that are really only present for compatibility with other character sets; nobody likes them very well, but being able to preserve them was seen as important. Most (all?) of them are combinations of other characters. Compatibility decomposition takes those apart into their component pieces. Canonical decomposition sort of assumes they won't be present, so it doesn't try to take them apart.
 
Can you install the CTP on Express?
 
5:16 PM
and if you can deal with the Unicode literals then it's perfectly feasible
 
If so I can get it done meself.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Think so.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes
 
hi folks
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz hi dude
 
5:17 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Quick question again.... I still dont' understand what's supposed to be inside detail::coded_character<windows1252>, or its friends. Is there an explicit template instantiation somewhere for windows1252 that's I'm not seeing?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Happy Thursday!
 
@ThePhD That's an alias for partial_array<windows1252::code_unit, windows1252::max_width>;
VS does not support template aliases.
 
@JerryCoffin Is it some kind of special thursday I'm not aware of?
 
@ThePhD You'll want detail::coded_character<windows1252>::type if you pulled my fork.
 
user1182183
DPoint operator/(DPoint &a, float &b){return DPoint(a.X/b,a.Y/b);}
error C2679: binary '/' : no operator found which takes a right-hand operand of type 'float' (or there is no acceptable conversion)
The compiler is kidding me, right?
 
5:18 PM
So you have to change it to a struct with a type typedef inside, and use typename ... ::type instead.
 
@GamErix float&, foo
there's no reason to take a float&.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, not to my knowledge. Might as well be happy anyway though.
 
user1182183
@DeadMG ah a lil different from .net xd
 
@JerryCoffin I had an exam today. Well, whatever :) Damn, people at my uni are so st00pid.
 
@GamErix Take Dpoint const&, float or Dpoint const&, float const&
 
5:19 PM
@GamErix You mean like everything else in C++?
 
In .NET you don't write operators that take ref float either.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what about +=?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Should make it easy to get good grades (if they grade on the curve, anyway).
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't think you can overload that in C#.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, you overload + and it creates += for you, because you're not allowed to override assignment operators.
 
user1182183
5:22 PM
euh, DPoint operator/(DPoint const&, float ) return DPoint(?.X/?,?.Y/?);
 
@JerryCoffin Nah, they don't. I'll give you an example of their thinking - one of the tasks was to analize C program and write the state of stack in the execution. How very useful... NOT.
 
@BartekBanachewicz msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8edha89s.aspx That comes free from overloading +. You cannot overload it separately.
 
@GamErix if you want to use the parameters, you have to give them names
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, ok, I'm not .NET expert. It makes sense, though.
 
user1182183
aaa
 
5:22 PM
@MooingDuck lol
 
@GamErix DPoint operator/ (const DPoint& left, float right) { return DPoint(left.X / right, left.Y / right) };
 
@GamErix rly?
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz was confused a lil bit : P
 
Turns out next monday is Human Rights Day.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, I get it now. I was so fucking confused because DeadMG made the change to a struct and I pulled his stuff, but he never appended ::type on any of the header's operations, so it was just punching me in the face and I got so lost. D:
 
5:25 PM
I scratched my head
 
@ThePhD I fixed all of the headers that were included in the one source file that was in the project, except the three with Unicode literals
the other headers may need changing
 
@DeadMG Yeah... the tests blow everything up though, so I have to fix the other headers too. Especially the ones with the encodings.
 
Sweet, I got a bug report.
Wait, it's a bug report.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Hmm...well, I can at least guess at what they're trying to accomplish, and it's probably not entirely bad -- at the same time, precise detail isn't nearly as important as general understanding (but is a lot harder to test, so...)
 
5:27 PM
WOW it's not possible to use auto with an initalizer list in C++. The FUCK is this Compiler good for?!
 
@ThePhD what compiler are you using?
 
auto x = { 1, 2 };
static_assert(std::is_same<std::initializer_list<int>, decltype(x)>::value, "See, it works");
 
@ThePhD bet you made a mistake, or used a feature not in your compiler
 
@JerryCoffin They don't give a fuck about if we understand or not, that's the problem. However, to solve the task I've shown you you just had to memorize the samples.
 
5:28 PM
I am starting to get too many near-term goals. Must not panic.
 
You know what it is? It's these suffixes.
Why can't you just cast like everyone else, Robot? D:
 
Yes, that's what the puppy said he did not fix.
 
Well it's not really fixable. VC++ doesn't support it at all. Would you mind terrible if I caste\d the shit out of everything?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The user-defined literals, I did fix (in the headers I looked at)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Common problem. In history, they originally put dates on things in the hope you'd see relationships between things happening around the same time. Teachers often missed the point completely though; I remember a test where they honestly asked the day of the week when the Magna Carta was signed...
 
5:30 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait, wut? type of x is "initializer list"?
 
it's the Unicode string literals which are the issue.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What else would it be?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So can I use it later in, for example, std::vector<int> V = x;?
 
mind == blown.
 
5:31 PM
 
@JerryCoffin They're either paid too little or too much (i. e. should be fired)
 
std::initializer_list<ogonek::codepoint> decoded = { static_cast<ogonek::codepoint>( 0x0041 ), static_cast<ogonek::codepoint>( 0x20AC ) }; Maybe I'm doing ti wrong, but the folllowing - with std::initializer_list or auto is not allowed in VC++.
Maybe I can create std::arrays instead
 
@JerryCoffin Man, that's crazy. Even if you know the actual date, you need to be aware of the Gregorian reform, and do all that math to account for it.
 
@ThePhD Yes, that would be legal.
 
It's so funny for me to read the code which has "ogonek" in it. I never use polish in code.
 
5:35 PM
@ThePhD Buggyform initialization.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Being fair, much of it isn't their own fault. There's a lot of pressure toward objective testing and any answer being clearly right or clearly wrong. That pushes toward facts instead of ideas. Of course, laziness pushes in the same direction: much easier to grade when it's purely about facts.
 
@JerryCoffin Objective testing of a programmer is impossible. They are just too dumb to understand it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Or, you just have to have memorized what you were told in class (which I'm pretty sure was actually wrong).
 
WOO! I got one of the tests to compile!
</Proud>
 
@JerryCoffin Oh.
 
5:37 PM
yeah
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, objective testing is entirely possible -- just thoroughly ineffective.
 
as I said, it's not hard to alter most of it to compile with VS
 
Question, though
 
@ThePhD I would appreciate if later you could report here, btw: bitbucket.org/martinhofernandes/ogonek/issue/14
 
In regular C++11, the U prefix for a character really just translates to UTF32 which is just an integer, right?
 
5:39 PM
Yes. But it works in strings too.
Good luck with those.
@ThePhD ogonek::codepoint to be precise.
 
One step at a time, man. ;~;
Can I add 'using namespace ogonek' to these tests?
It'd make typing a lot faster.
 
@ThePhD using namespace was invented by devil
using ogonek::whatever;
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well it's not like I'm sticking it in a header. These are mostly test files.
 
@ThePhD sure. I still do prefer to explicitely state that I'm using something
 
@BartekBanachewicz Close -- it was invented in Ada (well, they used slightly different spelling, but the same idea).
 
5:42 PM
@ThePhD I prefer not to because it makes the tests better as documentation, as it makes clear what is from ogonek.
 
that way I can look at the top of implementation and see - oopsie, I'm opening a file here (using std::fstream for example)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ogonek::windows1252::code_unit <--- did you want to keep that code_unit or codeunit ?
 
The underscore is intended.
 
@JerryCoffin I was taught Ada at my uni too, don't you worry. :P
 
Oh. Woopsie...
 
5:44 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You were taught Ada within the last decade? Now I do feel sorry for you! :-)
 
Oh god. My tendency to space things out is going to make the diff's shit themselves.
I gotta reign that in.
 
@JerryCoffin well, I took my research and found Ada2012. Of course, we were taught 2005 :P
 
You are changing whitespace?
Please.
 
Still, that's a language that's developing.
We've. also. been. taught.
dum dum dum
SmallTalk.
 
It's not that I want the one true spacing, but I don't want polluted diffs.
Don't mess up the spacing of stuff you are not changing.
 
5:47 PM
It was only on stuff I was changing, but still. It feels like a dickmove to fill the diffs with "LOOK AT ALL THE EXTRA SPACES~~"
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's not nearly so bad -- at least Smalltalk can be kind of fun. I actually have a copy of VisualWorks installed on my main machine and write bits and pieces of Smalltalk now and again.
 
@JerryCoffin <headdesk>
 
@ThePhD yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, I'm also probably...polluted by the fact that once upon a time (many years ago) I helped write a Smalltalk implementation.
 
I must confess, however, I'm really tempted to tab the shit out of these headers.
 
5:49 PM
@JerryCoffin was it for Cincom? :P
 
@ThePhD Is there honestly a diff tool that can't ignore differences in whitespace?
 
@JerryCoffin Personally, never ever used a diff tool in my life.
Heard about them, kinda get what they're supposed to do, but I've never used one. I don't know what they're capable of.
-1u <--- I'm getting warnings from this. Isn't this just supposed to be 0xFFFFFFFF ?
 
That should not produce any fucking warnings.
Silly MSVC:.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No -- the guy who owned the development company got in a fight with his publisher, and it never made it onto the market (was pretty much obsolete by the time they made up).
 
@ThePhD -1 can mean 0xFFFFFFFF, what does -1u mean?
 
5:51 PM
@ThePhD What? Please tell me you're joking!
 
@JerryCoffin ... uh. I'm joking? :D
 
@Borgleader -1 as unsigned.
@JerryCoffin He would probably reinvent one before he used it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wouldn't -1 do the same thing even if you used it to initialize an unsigned type?
 
@ThePhD Try (unsigned)-1 instead -- or std::limits<unsigned>::max() if you want it to be really clean and self-documenting (at the expense of just a little extra verbosity).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey hey, I would not. I worked with someone who had to create a diff tool and use it. It sounded like a nightmare.
 
5:54 PM
@Borgleader constexpr auto nonexistent = that; is what I should be using anyway (even though it is generated code).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He's turned over a new leaf -- installed Boost last night.
 
@JerryCoffin It's a lie, don't listen @R.MartinhoFernandes !
 
@JerryCoffin I figured. Ogonek uses Boost.Range all over.
 
@ThePhD I guess I must have mistaken you for that other ThePhd...
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, that other Boost-using weirdo. I'm converting ogonek to have no Boost.Range.
 
5:57 PM
And no, that does not mean we need six people using DeadMG's his name and gravatar.
 
@ThePhD Hey, that's what I am doing in a local branch.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mother fuckin' celebrates.
 
I won't get rid of boost entirely, though.
 
Wow, you really love curly braces?
 
Just Boost.Range.
 

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