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3:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you mean does it step into lambdas properly and inspect variables and such? Yeah, that works fine
 
user784668
@jalf Couldn't you just formally prove that it works?
 
user142019
Woohoo! UML class!
 
@jalf Unit testing this is not easy: it's a plugin that runs inside InDesign (and this function is from the InDesign API)
:(
 
ah yuck
 
@sehe Ready for hibernation?
 
user784668
3:01 PM
@Zoidberg'-- UML? Is it the thing whose main purpose is to be taught and never used?
 
hmm, looks like you should in theory be able to call the function from the immediate window. But like I said, I've never done it
 
user142019
@Fanael I guess so.
 
@Fanael It's not that useless you know
 
@jalf Because of that I have been in need of using a debugger much more often that I am used to (daily, instead of monthly or whatever), and it has been constantly letting me down.
 
user784668
@NolwennLeGuen I know. If you know it, you can earn money by teaching it, after all.
 
3:02 PM
you could try windbg
That's a lot more powerful
 
user142019
UML may be fine if you need to understand a large system, but you really shouldn’t model everything.
 
@jalf That's not the same thing?
Oh. It thought VS used that.
 
nope, different debugger engine
 
@Fanael Conception never hurts. Overkill-conception does, however. I tend to use a "light" version of UML. You know. Drawings and stuff.
 
I think the one VS uses is cdbg or something like that. They have a couple different ones for some reason
 
3:03 PM
@Zoidberg'-- Absolutely
 
cdbg and windbg are the same thing, just different interfaces
 
@CatPlusPlus then it's something else
I know there are a ton of windbg commands that the VS debugger doesn't understand
 
user784668
@NolwennLeGuen For drawings, I prefer crayons to UML.
2
 
ah, cdbg might be the console version of windbg
 
@Fanael Crayons are the shit
 
user784668
3:05 PM
@NolwennLeGuen Yet somehow UML manages to be even worse!
 
user784668
dat
 
> "to be the shit" is originally an American expression. It means "to be the best imaginable, to be top-notch."
 
@NolwennLeGuen erm. What?
 
user784668
@NolwennLeGuen Crap.
 
user784668
3:06 PM
@NolwennLeGuen I know no English, you see.
 
How surprising for a lotus flower.
 
FFFFFFUUUUUUU
 
user142019
@Fanael You can use crayons to make UML diagrams!
 
@NolwennLeGuen Le stylo bille. I don't do mistakes
 
@sehe You don't plan on hibernating? Or is it just that polar bears don't hibernate?
 
3:07 PM
@Zoidberg'-- That's why they are superior!
 
@jalf I know that works, because I have used it before. But... It seems to not want to put breakpoints if said lambda is in a member initializer list :/ Time to write worthless a named function for this.
 
@NolwennLeGuen I'm energy efficient. No need to hibernate
 
user784668
@Zoidberg'-- Yes, but can you use UML diagrams to make crayons?
 
@Zoidberg'-- Does that mean crayons are the upper level of abstraction of UML? Meta-UML?
 
user142019
@Fanael well, you can use UML diagrams to model crayon-producing robots.
 
3:08 PM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Where The Lion is King. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [newbz-only]
 
From now on, anytime someone says the VS debugger is good, I am going to assume they are talking about the .NET one.
 
It's good.
 
.NET debugger is usable yes
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes or they're talking about its ability to not crash or hang like gdb sometimes does. ;)
well, there's a lot that the VS debugger is good at. It also has some painful shortcomings
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes The VS debugger is good at sucking.
 
user784668
3:11 PM
Okay, back to hash functions.
 
overall, for the things I've needed to debug, I'd rate it above the alternatives
 
Now I have something called stupid_function_that_tests_if_something_is_a_private_use_character_and_lets_me_‌​debug_the_GetValue_function in my code.
 
but anything involving the immediate window, and its ability to locate symbols/functions/variables at debug-time is pretty crippled, yes
 
O hey. Apparently Casablanca C++ libs have
> – very good actor programming model, derived from Erlang
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is that a test for how long you can really make a function name?
 
3:12 PM
Sounds intereseting
 
user784668
@jalf GDB doesn't crash nor hang. It just refuses to debug code that sucks beyond repair.
 
user784668
@TonyTheLion It's a variable.
 
Incoming newb question: "Explain why an infinite loop doesn't block other processes on UNIX". Is my understanding wrong or this has nothing to do with UNIX, rather with the OS scheduler?
 
same difference
 
@NolwennLeGuen it has to with IQ, not IRQ
 
3:13 PM
@NolwennLeGuen If the OS is UNIX, then that has everything to do with UNIX.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But UNIX allows several schedulers, no?
 
@Fanael that's about as silly a claim as saying that the VS debugger is universally good
I've had gdb crash or hang enough times that I consider it a serious drawback.
 
@NolwennLeGuen Right, but that's the scheduler blocking other processes.
not the original process with it's infinite loop
 
Of course, you can also have plenty of debugging sessions where it doesn't. Just like you can do plenty of debugging in VS where you don't run into its limitations
 
@jalf Maybe you have too much code that sucks beyond repair. SCNR.
 
3:15 PM
infinite loops don't block other processes on Unix because the scheduler can give time to any process
 
@DeadMG Shouldn't the question then be "Explain why an infinite loop doesn't block other processes on a preemptive scheduler" or something
 
@NolwennLeGuen The OS is always pre-emptive.
 
user784668
@NolwennLeGuen It shouldn't. Other OSes suck and they're not worth mentioning.
 
user784668
@NolwennLeGuen Sarcasm aside, yes it should.
 
the scheduler only determines which process to run next- the other process has already been paused.
 
3:16 PM
@DeadMG Not true
 
Meh, whatever, you are just making up excuses to refuse answering.
 
user784668
Fuck.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes We don't need no excuses to not answer :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, or maybe gdb isn't perfect either, and maybe life is just too short for wasting time on people who think it's the developers fault if the debugger crashes on him
 
user784668
I not only don't know English, I also don't know how to spell.
 
3:16 PM
@Fanael Okay. Where? Whom?
 
@jalf SCNR means "Sorry, Could Not Resist". It often indicates a joke.
 
@jalf Life is long enough, but wasting time is just no fun in general
 
@jalf Unless you use smart pointers. The InDesign API uses some custom smart pointer all over. I am constantly running into CXX0063. That is painful :(
 
@DeadMG Hm, right. But does the OS pause processes at every quantum of time, regardless of scheduler?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Would a debug evaluator helper (what's it called, these days) help MSVC dereference the smartptr?
 
3:18 PM
@NolwennLeGuen The complete answer to this question would take at least 20 A4 pages.
 
@Griwes That would be the complete implementation of Minix 1.0, right?
 
Because it depends on OS, scheduler algorithm, scheduler priority systems, scheduler optimizations and stuff.
 
@Griwes I read a few PDFs already and haven't found a really clear answer. I should prolly get a book.
 
user784668
@sehe No, Minix is shorter.
 
@NolwennLeGuen Tanenbaums 'Modern Operating Systems'.
Must finally get copy for myself.
 
3:20 PM
@NolwennLeGuen The CPU does. It's a hardware interrupt.
 
user784668
@Griwes I can sell.
 
@Griwes I have 'Operating Systems' 3rd edition
 
@NolwennLeGuen Then read it.
 
@Griwes I can't read
 
3:21 PM
But well, schedulers in field of OSes are like templates in field of C++.
 
@Griwes they suck?
 
user784668
lol
 
You could write entire books about scheduling algorithms, optimizations, pitfalls and stuff.
 
user784668
@bamboon Yes, pretty much.
 
@bamboon Childish trolling.
 
3:22 PM
AH,htre, fuck this. I am going to debug with printf.
2
 
@Griwes Yet true.
 
Now it's the ICU function it says it cannot find.
 
YOU TELLING ME TEMPLATES SUCK?
 
WTF is wrong with this crap.
 
@Griwes Sir yes sir.
 
user784668
3:22 PM
@Griwes YES!
 
That means you fail to understand them.
 
@DeadMG But FCFS is non preemptive for example. im confus
 
user784668
@Griwes That means you haven't used them enough.
 
:( VsVim does not implement time travel.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes File a bug.
 
3:24 PM
@NolwennLeGuen, Google "site:osdev.org Brendan scheduler".
 
@Fanael I am just doing that.
 
And read everything written by Brendan.
That may help you understand schedulers a little more.
 
@Griwes I (believe I) do understand schedulers. I'm confused by the question in my exam.
 
anyone have a rant handy on the topic of "templates suck"? I like reading rants :)
 
Has anyone read this book?
 
3:26 PM
published 2004? I'd pass
 
@NolwennLeGuen "Incoming newb question: "Explain why an infinite loop doesn't block other processes on UNIX". Is my understanding wrong or this has nothing to do with UNIX, rather with the OS scheduler?" This one?
 
user784668
@melak47 I don't know any, apart from the C++ FQA.
 
(Making sure I know whatcha talking about)
 
@Griwes Yup
 
It's a bit like asking why are infinite loops used in C++, rather than "why are they used".
 
3:27 PM
Don't confuse me more pls
 
You should probably write a rant, directed at your teacher, ranting about the fact its not UNIX specific.
 
I flew a brick to his head the other day already
 
Fuck yeah, bug fixed.
 
@NolwennLeGuen Foh real?
 
Bugfix: "The robot will no longer attempt to claim that the VS debugger is not superior by default."
2
 
user784668
3:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Time travel as in TARDIS or as in :earlier?
 
@DeadMG What?
 
@sehe Sadly no.
 
@DeadMG I fixed the bug by not using the VS debugger.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You said you fixed a bug.
 
7 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
AH,htre, fuck this. I am going to debug with printf.
 
user784668
3:29 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, htree, fuck this!
 
@Fanael :earlier
I had to restore my code to its appearance from 30 minutes ago by using VS's Undo dropdown thingy. Humilliating.
 
Ahahaha
 
just in time...
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes Still better than emacs.
 
emacs has plugins for undo trees
 
user784668
3:33 PM
@CatPlusPlus But it's emacs nonetheless.
 
Still better than VS
 
user784668
ed > emacs
 
edlin > ed
 
vs > *
there, I said it
 
@bamboon do you know until what time can I pick something up at a Packstation?
 
3:38 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you mean like how long a package can rest in there? or what daytime?
 
@sehe Is that the dude from PVS-studio?
@bamboon Daytime.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 24/7
 
Though knowing the former won't cause harm, I guess.
@bamboon Oh cool.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you already have an account?
 
Yes.
I have my card and all that.
 
3:39 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes also a mobile account?
 
A mobile account? As in, a cellphone?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah ok, just asking because they recently changed the system to mTan via SMS which caused a lot of trouble.
 
Yeah, I just got an SMS with a mTAN, which is why I asked the daytime.
 
3:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah ok. Yeah, you can pick it up any time you want, even can even drop packages there.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yup
 
fuckshitties
all the interesting discussion on isocpp has dried up
 
And even the non-interesting ones, like the CADRe crap.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah sorry, I weren't referring to your comments :)
 
what's the benefit of strchr taking an int as it's second param instead of char?
is that just so it can take wchar_t as well?
 
3:46 PM
the benefit is that C is dumb and doesn't really understand char :)
see also sizeof('a') == sizeof(int) :)
I think that's how it is. Dumb C rule
also isalpha(int) instead instead of char parameter
 
@DeadMG
> <tomalak> DeadMG is his full name.
> <melba> he has posted pics of his dog rofl
> <JordiGH> Parents hated him?
> <tomalak> Parents never existed.
 
@jalf For a moment there I as wondering why that thing was in your ass, and why you had pulled it out.
@Griwes lol
Where is that from?
 
##C++ @ Freenode
 
And tomalak is which Tomalak?
 
3:48 PM
##C++.
 
The Geret'kal one?
 
Yup.
 
btw, I'm thinking of going travelling over christmas. Anyone wanna come? :D
 
@Griwes oh lol
 
Dunno exactly when or where :)
 
3:49 PM
oh I'd love to travel
but I've committed to parents really
 
@TonyTheLion reset HEAD
 
@Griwes meh
 
@jalf I am going to spend Christmas in Portugal. Can't really say no to the folks back home.
 
anyway, afk a bit
@R.MartinhoFernandes pah, I can ;)
 
3:51 PM
You can come to Portugal? Cool
:P
 
Portugal is prolly quite nice to visit
 
@TonyTheLion it is
 
I need an excuse to travel more
meh
I don't really have one
 
The coolest thing about Portugal, is that it isn't dark at 16:00.
 
I suck
 
3:54 PM
Silly northern countries.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's winter dude ;) wait till summer
 
@bamboon In Portugal it isn't dark until 16:00 in Winter.
 
it is here
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Silly northern countries.
 
3:56 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes how cold is it in portugal these days?
 
@bamboon Warmer than Berlin, I am sure.
But probably still cold.
 
@DeadMG so do you still plan to come visit me someday?
 
Where I am from some times you get sub-zero temperatures, but that's not common and only at night and early morning.
However, further inland it is common to get frozen lakes.
My parents live about 30-40 km from the ocean.
 

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