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12:00 AM
@Griwes I'll try :P
 
I think I might've set a new OC record:
No liquid nitrogen either.
 
Ell
Haha
Impressive
 
So, 3.3Ghz? Did it just multiply them all?
 
277.5 is the multiplier.
 
@Mysticial so. That was hacked using winspy++ then?
@Mikhail More like 27.7Ghz but that seems out of this world
 
12:08 AM
Wasn't hacked. It tried to update while I had all cores loaded with higher priority threads. Core Temp runs in lowest priority.
 
so, it just silently misbehaves?
 
Yeah.
 
it used to be that OCers could cook an egg from CPU temps. soon, OCers will cook eggs from the microwave radiation
 
I've seen CPUz do the same thing years ago when I starved it with a bunch of real-time priority threads.
 
So, if you have 8 cores, and you got 27Ghz, might be that 27/8 is 3.3Ghz
 
12:10 AM
The multiplier is supposed to be 40.0.
 
Cores is 8 in the dialog
 
12:21 AM
Hmm, how does one use decltype when you want the return type of a function with arguments but don't know or need specific arguments?
It seems to work if I do something like: decltype(make_inverse_plan(42))& plan; but that doesn't feel paradigmatic...
 
@Mikhail you can’t, and in fact there may not be such a type
e.g. what is the return type of template<typename T> T* addr(T&);?
 
I understand that it sometimes might not work, but it sometimes also can work...
decltype(make_inverse_plan(42))& plan; seems to work but it looks ugly
 
you can choose to 'poke' around and e.g. inspect function/member pointers
 
Better example: int abs(int); double abs(double);... what's the return type of abs(whatever)?
 
typename T
Thats easy, can you give me a harder one?
 
12:31 AM
where does that T come from, when was it introduced into the scope?
 
If it don't fit the compiler chokes, if it fits we're good
 
12:49 AM
@Mikhail fwiw is fetch_return_type_t<decltype(&make_inverse_plan)>& plan going to look any better? you should make everything look nice with aliases anyway, that’s API design 101 whichever approach you take
 
That is what I am doing. I actually started this challenge cryptopals.com/sets/1/challenges/1 today and however, I thought just doing a base 64 to base 16 encoder was too easy so I decided to kill two birds with one stone and learn spirit stuff as well. — joshu 5 mins ago
My irony was not even strong enough
 
1:10 AM
@sehe you must be getting rusty
4
 
1:24 AM
I can only guess who starred that
 
@Mikhail btw it’s not so much decltype but more old fashioned TMP
 
What is TMP?
 
template metaprogramming
I’ve never bothered much with EBCO before but I guess that if I’m going to, I might as well do it in style @sehe @R.MartinhoFernandes
incidentally I’m surprised I’ve never run into this gag before
 
@LucDanton lol
 
together with a specialization for non-classes of course
 
1:36 AM
@LucDanton it's a little bit weird to me
 
if the base is non-private then everything is fine—so on first approximation that would mean there are provisions to treat the injected base as a type where it makes sense, but no provision to delay access checking
 
 
1 hour later…
3:01 AM
damn this is a ncie company to work for
 
Machine learning is like money laundering for bias
 
lmao my neural network found this objectively funny
5
 
@sehe I don't really get it
 
3:35 AM
Given a type list template<typename ...Args> can you exclude a type for which a certain predicate P return true (and have a new list in some random struct)? If it is possible, it surely be very hackish
 
4:03 AM
 
oh my
 
what’s updog?
 
Ell
He he
Not sure if genuine or not :P
 
 
2 hours later…
6:14 AM
If android is open source, then theoretically I could modify the OS and install my own version, right?
 
yes
 
Ell
@Telkitty yes
But it isn't open source unfortunately
Bits are but a large chunk is Google closed source services stuff
Afaik
 
Terrible Monday morning to you all!
 
Every day of the year should have a unique name
 
user1804599
6:29 AM
Hi
 
alright I’ll go full Haskell today
 
6:44 AM
Everyday of your life should have a special name :p
 
@LucDanton Do you get paid for doing Haskell?
 
The only person who I talked with who does Haskell for money is a physics major working at a startup, and it seems he uses the thing for data-parsing tasks, rather than say the kind of software development you would use when writing a user facing application like MS Word.
 
anyone there :U
 
maybe
wtf does ":U" mean
 
Ell
7:00 AM
Surprised mouth
 
@Phantom If you want to talk do it here.
 
user1804599
@sehe insanely useful feature where rows can read data from other rows without joins or groups
 
user1804599
For example, to select all employees together with the average salary of their departments, you can write SELECT name, salary, avg(salary) OVER (PARTITION BY department_id) FROM employees.
 
user1804599
You'd get back something like this:
 
user1804599
 name   | salary | avg | department_id
--------+--------+-----+---------------
 henk   |     10 |  20 |             1
 ingrid |     30 |  20 |             1
 klaas  |     50 |  50 |             2
 
7:34 AM
Defaulted comparison operators, go!
@Borgleader I'll try to remember.
 
user1804599
SQL is fucking awesome.
 
please, its pronounced sequel
 
user1804599
 
7:57 AM
So the discussion so far has been "there's this problem" "we've had this discussion already, let's move on" :D
@Borgleader oh fuck me. [ts...] works, [ts = ts...] doesn't; how did I not notice that before? (I can't remember your original question about this, so I can't remember if this was working there.)
Not sure if this actually helps me in my particular forwarding case in any way, though - it might, but I need to try that...
 
Ven
8:12 AM
hi
 
user1804599
hi
 
lo
 
Ven
8:44 AM
what's up, kitty?
@Ell it's luc.
 
Nothing glorious - trying to find out why location update is not working in railway tunnel despite the presence of mobile reception
 
Ven
@набиячлэвэлиь many a wound were inflected, indeed
 
@Griwes The original question was wether or not there was a proposal to get that in the language. but if [ts...] works i guess thats "good enough" :P
 
@Griwes All fine and dandy until you need to move the pack elements
 
@milleniumbug That is what I said literally a message below, yes.
 
8:57 AM
At this point the committee should get a clue that what they really need are tuples
 
Ven
tuple_variant
 
user1804599
bukkake udon
 
Ven
@Mikhail That's a nice set of Drugs the OP is doing there. Can I use some of them for my C++?
 
Is Python a drug?
 
Ven
9:02 AM
Only if it looks into your eyes for a long time.
 
>>I have this funny vision where you could use your own tuple-like types inside things like std::map.
 
user1804599
@Mikhail undefined
 
definitely drugs
 
user1804599
@Mikhail omg I want those
 
Ven
who are you gonna use them with anyway
inb4 your mom
 
nwp
9:03 AM
balloon animals
 
user1804599
@Ven hippies
 
nwp
inb4 bestiality
 
Ven
hype-es
 
user1804599
Haskell has roots in hype theory.
 
my Big:D
Another reason to do Haskell is that you are over qualified for your shit job.
 
user1804599
9:06 AM
COBOL
 
More like LOLBOL
 
user1804599
COBOL is the dual of BOL.
 
Ven
COCOBOL
 
user1804599
LIVESCRIPTBOL
 
COBOL .net, Visual COBOL
 
user1804599
9:11 AM
Are there "programmers" that write "Java" as "JAVA" and pronounce it as four separate letters?
 
user1804599
@Mikhail There are COBOL implementations that target the CLR. Visual COBOL is an actual thing.
 
No, but some call it Scala
 
user1804599
 
I wonder if anybody says it the way I do :-)
 
Ven
I just say "A, S, 3"
> Compile your existing COBOL programs directly to Microsoft Intermediate Language (MSIL) and deploy to the Common Language Runtime (CLR). Combine COBOL with C#, VB, and other .NET languages on the desktop, on the web or from mobile devices.
omg that's amazing
 
user1804599
9:25 AM
@Ven but you need a million bucks
 
Ven
Is there no keyboard shortcut to compile on Coliru?
 
Hi, I have a very trivial question :). I have 3 variables: v1=1, v2=1, v3=1 . Now I want to check with "if" if all three variables are "1". I would write if (v1 == 1 && v2 == 1 && v3 == 1){do stuff}. But is there a shorter way? Cant I write something like if (v1,v2,v3 == 1){do stuff}?
 
Ven
all(v1, v2, v3) == 1
COBOL can also do that neatly.
 
use an array and std::all_of
 
Ven
:D
33
Q: Issues with ANDs and ORs (COBOL)

Kimmy1235I have a homework assignment that need turned in tomorrow and I can't seem to get this one part right. See I was given a input file with a bunch of names, some of which I need to skip, with extra info on each one. I was trying use ANDs and ORs to skip over the names I did not need and I came up w...

> Did I make it too complex for the compiler?
 
9:39 AM
auto vars = {v1, v2, v3}; if(std::all_of(vars.begin(), vars.end(), [](auto x){ x == 1; })) do_stuff();
 
nwp
@milleniumbug
 
that's with std::initializer_list and lambdas
 
Ven
10/0 needs a "functor" over the equal-lambda
 
Could be if(all_of({ v1, v2, v3}, _1 == 1)) do_stuff(); if using Boost.Range and Boost.Phoenix
(not using Boost? What are you waiting for?)
 
Ven
uh, using namespaces then?
 
9:42 AM
I will simply use if (v1 == 1 && v2 == 1 && v3 == 1) :)
 
Ven
because I don't see how it'd find all_of in boost, even via ADL.
 
sure, I don't really count imports to the line count
(Java people definitely don't)
 
user1804599
@Ven Perl 6 does it neatlier.
 
Ven
Well, lots of C++ developers would argue against using using namespace to start with. especially w/ boost stuff
 
Meh, Boost uses namespaces more sensibly than C++ standard library
 
9:47 AM
Do we think it's important to propagate the value category of the not_fn wrapper to the call of the wrapped function object, in C++17?
Unanimous yes.

not_fn should sfinae and guarantee that special operations forward precisely, in C++17? e.g. move must call move; operations must be noexcept in matching cases?
SF F N A SA
2 12 0 0 0
 
Also didn't say about using namespace. You can use using or namespace aliases if you like.
 
Forward this to LWG for C++17 with namespace "std\d+" reserved?
SF F N A SA
5 6 1 2 0
We'll have std2::, then std3::, std4::, etc... in the future.
 
Ven
@milleniumbug using all_of = boost::all_of; using _1 = boost::phoenix::placeholders::_1;
I really wish we could write using std::{all_of,find}; or something like that...
 
nope that's using boost::all_of;
 
user1804599
Boost.Preprocessor.
 
user1804599
9:50 AM
Write a USING macro so you can write USING(boost::prefix::placeholders, _1, _2, _3);. You can do this with Boost.Preprocessor.
 
Or namespace pp = boost::phoenix::placeholders;
 
Ven
ah, yeah.
well, I still long for using boost::{all_of, blabla}; :)
 
write a macro for it :D
 
There is an EWG issue to allow using a, b, c; and using args...; somewhere.
 
Ven
@Morwenn :o :o :o
 
9:54 AM
IIRC it only concerns using declarations to import functions from the base classes though.
 
I want using Base::*;
 
> Vandevoorde to write a paper and bring it back to EWG. The guidance is to allow multiple names in using-declarations, and also allowing a pack.
@milleniumbug I guess there will be people against « import everything » behaviours.
Also it's never been proposed AFAIK.
 
Ven
I just want something shell-like expansion :[
using boost::phoenix::placeholders::{_1, _2, _3};. Simple easy!
 
It's still not clear whether we will have std::gcd and std::lcm in C++17. Not that it really matters though.
 
Ven
it really doesn't
 
10:00 AM
I could delete the function from 2~3 projects of mine :D
 
argh math function names
fucking log
 
Ven
fuck log!
ln much better, right?
 
Anyone want to add assignment to not_fn in C++17?
Nobody does.
 
Ven
wat.
why would you add assignment there?!
 
Some guy commented on my Java 8 video:
> I love with Ricardo Montalbán teaches me stuff.
 
10:08 AM
I don't know. Function objects are often copy-constructed in the standard library, some maybe copy-assignment would make sense too.
 
user1804599
lol implicit non-blit copies
 
Ven
@fredoverflow he looks like a james bond
 
@Morwenn Rule of Zero should apply here, no?
 
@milleniumbug Actually I realize I probably don't know what they mean by "assignment" in this specific case.
There's nothing about assignment in the proposal IIRC. Maybe it's just something that occured during the discussion.
 
user6225166
10:17 AM
hello. nice day.
 
user6225166
current topic?
 
Ven
++C
 
Time to eat (well, read a book actually). Bie.
 
*C++
 
@GNACBetombo whatever doubles your yacht
 
user6225166
10:20 AM
i have heard boost when i compile ogre c++. what kind of library is boost?
 
! *finger
^ don't point your finger at
@GNACBetombo boost.org
 
user6225166
i understand know. @Telkitty.
 
user6225166
who has already used the library Ogre here?
 
user6225166
at work i notice that people tend to use less c++. there are always intersted in java or php.
 
user6225166
as if java or whatever were better. lol
 
Ven
10:32 AM
How many drugs does it take to...
change a lightbulb?
 
user6225166
lightbulb?
 
user6225166
@Ven
 
Ven
not that you'd know
 
@Borgleader Ville says they probably just missed the use-case.
I'm going to try to figure out the syntax and write a paper for Issaquah, though chances are I won't be there at the meeting... unless I figure out where to get the money I'd need.
cc @Morwenn? :D
 
@Griwes For?
 
10:40 AM
[ts = std::forward<Ts>(ts)...](){ ... }
 
[ts = std::forward<Ts>(ts)...](){ ... }
 
Haha, but even if it is accepted, you'll need to wait for GCC 13 before it's usable without ICEs x)
 
:D
Doesn't matter much ;P
Then I'll be able to blame GCC, not myself :D
 
I don't have plans to write more papers currently. There are lots of things I'd like in the language or in the standard library, but I don't think I'd be able to write a proposal about any of them.
 
Hah, Bjarne again argues that problems with constexpr if is that it exists at all and that all of them can be solved with concepts.
Can't say I didn't see that coming.
 
10:58 AM
yo motherfuckers
my train operator apparently now offers wifi; fuck yeah
 
Ben
I've just learned about concepts in C++.
seems like a good idea.
@Puppy what kind of train?
 
it has wheels, seats, and wifi
 
Ben
@Puppy fabulous.
 
Oho, discussion about changing the generic lambda capture rules, to always capture, even if used only in unevaluated context. Will probably result in somebody writing a paper.
> the comment above is an EWG hallucination
 
11:19 AM
@Griwes Every problem can probably be solved with everything else since the language is Turing-complete, but if constexpr is probably handy when you don't want to add 452 overloads to the same function. I bet that it can even speed up compile times for real.
 
Sounds like generic lambdas capture rules are probably going to be considered a defect in C++14.
 
3 messages moved to bin
 
@Griwes Has the discussion about default comparisons operators ended?
 
@milleniumbug huh. Make that generalized function invocation syntax instead?
Oh. In a derived class. Sorry. Yes
Although perfect proxy + operator. could be worse and better :L
 
@Morwenn Yes, but mostly with comments of "we talked about this already". Bjarne was visibly irritated with the long discussion :P
 
11:27 AM
@Mikhail Not if you're a lobster. Then it's "Squeal"
 
Basically we need to see what LEWG does, because if it decides to delete the implicit operators (which it can decide not to do, because even currently standard libraries are allowed to add stuff to its types), then there's a problem because the deleted operator will be a better match that some implicitly converting one and thus overload resolution will fail. Though if LEWG decides to say "nah", there doesn't seem to be a big problem anyone has.
 
Unfit for committee work ☑
:)
 
Also inline variables now, Bjarne basically says modules fix this... ;P
 
user6225166
i can't keep up with the topic
 
user6225166
anyone can explain. my english is little bad
 
11:31 AM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: We'll evaluate your fitness for committee work [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
9
 
@Griwes Too bad we're still waiting for modules and concepts :p
 
hmm
I'd really like to buy the Vive or Oculus Rift, they're just so fuckin' expensive
I wonder if they'll do like, 75% off Vive during the Steam Summer Sale? ;p
 
user1804599
@Puppy lol
 
user1804599
it's 2016
 
user1804599
are you guys just past the stone age
 
11:47 AM
A => B (impure)
A -> B (pure)
interesting
In confx, my idea was A -> B for pure functions and A ~> B for impure functions :)
 
user1804599
old news
 
Maybe, but I was still excited to see Martin talk about it.
 
@rightfold so called "olds"
 
user1804599
I want strict Frege.
 
Why?
 
user1804599
11:53 AM
PureScript on the JVm.
 
Hahah, so we're kind of continuing a discussion we had in Aspen a year ago now. :DDD
 
Ven
@Morwenn That turing-completeness part really didn't make sense :P
@fredoverflow I'm sad they're removing macros :[.
But dotc is retarded. Its phases are () => Unit.
 
@Ven Yup.
 
user1804599
12:10 PM
hah, I have a direct (non-generic) use-case for Option<Option<T>>
 
user1804599
beat that null
 
user1804599
if ($customerAbsent === null) {
    $signature = Option::none();
} else if ($customerAbsent) {
    $signature = Option::some(Option::none());
} else {
    $signatureS = (string)$request->request->get('signature', '');
    $signature = Option::some(Option::some(base64_decode($signatureS)));
}
 
Do we want string_view to record null termination?
SF F N A SA
0 0 1 2 25
Do we want P0254 for C++17?
SF F N A SA
25 3 0 0 0
 
hahah
 
Do we want someone to write a paper changing path construction to take string_views instead of std::basic_strings for C++17? (Aside from moves)
SF F N A SA
4 6 9 3 0
Include the 'pos, n' versions for methods taking string_view?
SF F N A SA
11 6 5 4 0
 
12:20 PM
@Morwenn That's an interesting vote.
 
Yes.
 
Hmmmmm. About inline variables...
- poll: drop it all for now? (Bjarne): SF 1, F 4, N 3, A 5, SA 9
- poll: disallow references to non-const? SF 0, F 2, N 4, A 7, SA 6
- poll: don't add, fix constexpr to be implicitly "inline": SF 1, F 4, N 4, A 5, SA 8
- poll: drop the const restriction? SF 14, F 3, N 2, A 0, SA 2
 
Ven
ugh
 
SF F N A SA WTF?
 
Committee busy integrating broken features and rejecting useful ones?
 
12:29 PM
@ArneMertz Strongly For, For, Neutral, Against, Strongly Against
 
@ArneMertz San Francisco, Fail, North, Approved, South Africa, What The Fuck
 
@Griwes ah thx
 
Griwes you suck
 
This is this odd week when I'm not really in for trolling. :P
 
Interesting spelling of "lifetime"
 
12:30 PM
aaaaaaaaaaand break
 
user6225166
@KretabChabawenizc lifeintime
 
@Morwenn how do you like those polls? :D (Excuse my weird formatting, straight from my personal notes :P)
 
Ven
yo cobartek
 
polls from polland
 
@Griwes Interesting. It seems that people do want inline variables :)
 
12:52 PM
@Morwenn Yes. And Bjarne is very unhappy with the result of the polls.
Also it seems that EWG has just set a precedent by reversing a previous poll that made the proposal go in the const direction.
I assure you, this is not the end. :D
 
Modules would indeed solve the problem, but do we want to wait X years again? Also projects won't magically drop header files in months.
 
Exactly.
 
Ven
I expected them to write a magic header converter
 
yeah right
 
Proposal 1: Do we want member functions on directory_entry to expose potentially-cached information for C++17, for last_write_time and file_size?
SF F N A SA
1 11 7 2 0

Proposal 1b: Do we want member functions on directory_entry to expose potentially-cached information for C++17, for *all* of the information-retrieval functions?
SF F N A SA
6 11 2 2 0

Proposal 2: Do we want to allow/encourage free function overloads taking directory_entry to expose potentially-cached information for C++17?
 
1:25 PM
wat even are inline variables
 
@Puppy Namespace-level variables avoiding ODR problems the same way inline functions avoid ODR problems.
 
the first problem I have with this is that namespace-level variables are shit
the second problem I have with this is that you can just chuck it in an inline function?
the third problem I have with this is seriously, fuck namespace-level variables
the fourth problem I have with this is that every second wasted discussing it is another second modules get delayed further
 
Ven
v good arguments here, very pedantic, much background.
4 lines to basically say "you can put it in a function" and "I don't like it"
 
nwp
why does everyone just assume modules will solve all problems?
 
@Puppy The problems appears with global function objects à la Niebler.
 
1:30 PM
here's a novel thought
 
@nwp Not all problems, but they do solve this specific problem.
 
maybe that whole idea seems fuckin' stupid
and if Niebler can't just use regular functions, maybe the committee should fix functions to be less shit
 
"You should include switch in this, and that's good, because it'll force you... well, it'll force Core to fix some wording." ~ Chandler on P0305 /cc @Morwenn
 
Ven
@Griwes going full GO mode
 
Well I admit I like that proposal, including the if constexpr part, because then I can have sanity in some absurd if constexpr cases with repeated subexpressions and whatnot.
 
1:33 PM
@Griwes I wasn't a fan of that proposal :/
 
Ven
> A certain “monadic” style of bubbling up non-success status values also becomes more compact:
Fuck you for your retarded use of words.
 
:D
 
problem: status values.
all of the examples in that proposal stem from the fact that that code is shit, rather than any fundamental need
 
user1804599
hi
 
I can't believe I thought I would want to go and do a master degree
I forgot how much I hate uni
 
1:45 PM
@Ven Puppy is well aware of that
 
user1804599
@Shoe Good, good. Let the hate flow through you.
 
I have to prepare this old exam, and it has so much stuff in it it's not even funny
 
Ven
@sehe sorry, were you blinded by the obvious?
 
Well. It was you who was dealing gratuitous observations
 
Ven
Why would I make you pay for them?
 
1:50 PM
You go from set theory, to complex numbers, to matrices (inverses, la place), to linear transformations, to linear maps, to vector spaces, to kernel/row/col/null/img spaces, to calculating basis for those spaces, to diagonal matrices, to orthogonal basis, to complementary orthogonal basis, to geometry
A single course, a single exam
Things that I can't even fit in my head for a single day, let alone for a month after that
 
Ven
@sehe my point was: of course I'm doing it for free.
 
user1804599
SELECT 'aardappel';
 
All of that for nothing
Things that if I ever need to take over again (which I probably won't), I'll have to lookup anyway
 
@Ven Thank you. I will cherish this nugget of wisdom until I'm enlightened enough to see its value
 
Ven
No problem – it was free as well!
 
1:52 PM
How bored are you, on a scale of -1 to -2?
 
So poll for __VA_OPT__: SF: 1, F 9, N 6, A 1, SA 0
Yay, we're going to Matt with regular void slides :D
 
Ven
@sehe trying to refresh my school's intranet to get my grades...
 

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