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user1804599
2:08 PM
COBOL is great.
 
nwp
@Ven stop doing that! you are killing your whole school's network!
 
user1804599
I want to write more COBOL code.
 
Ven
good.
 
nwp
the dreaded F5 attack strikes again
 
user1804599
rate limit you fool
 
nwp
2:10 PM
in other news: after only 2 days I managed to write a loop in make!
I must be one of those rock star programmers, keyboards are what metallica sometimes uses and I like metallica
 
@Ven nobody gets your grades :)
 
user1804599
I want COBOL with macros.
 
user1804599
Copybooks suck!
 
user1804599
AST-based macros ftw!
 
2:17 PM
@Telkitty That's @sehe contemplating life?
 
always on a moral high
always contemplating lives
 
@Columbo that sehe ... but I don't know what's he's doing in that picture :p
could be conceptualizing a crime for all I know :p
 
Tag with [ci-skip]
Travis still tries to build it anyways
q_q
 
[ci skip] no dash
 
2:24 PM
@Morwenn on regular void:
- poll for the paper as is: SF 3, F 7, N 4, A 1, SA 2
- poll for removal of pointer arithmetic and void* deletion: SF 1, F 2, N 11, A 1, SA 1
 
Which paper?
 
Ville spent 5 minutes wondering what to do and whether to proceed as it stands (with him and Gabriel being the two SAs).
 
Uh
What happens to void*.
And all the "type erasure" properties therein.
 
It's in the paper!
(And also is a point of disagreement somewhat; see the second poll.)
Okay, that's it for the day folks... :P
 
No I mean
Like, it's not mentioned there what happens when you cast to a void* and back for some T*.
Same rules as for char*?
 
2:34 PM
Is there a reason why you can't partially specialize free-functions/member-functions? Is there a technical reason for that?
Same with specializing a method of a template class.
I'm aware you can work-around it with helper classes, but that's a mess.
 
RETARDATION-IN-C++
 
nwp
@Mysticial because it is redundant with overloading
 
@ThePhD It was brilliant :D
 
@nwp That doesn't work if the template parameter is an integer and I want different behavior depending on what the integer is.
 
2:36 PM
there’s the argument that it would cause confusion re: overload resolution
 
hmm
-68
Q: Shop system. Reputation buyable for real currency

John LockMake shop system, in which we can buy reputation packs for real money. There should be daily limit on how much of reputation we can buy a day. There could be also other features to buy. Here are my proposals: Golden frame around questions and answers. Bigger font of our comments or ability to m...

7
^^ /cc @Borgleader
 
user1804599
> Ability to remove some reputation from user. The more reputation for remove, the bigger cost.
 
@Mysticial topkek
 
literally way2pin
 
Ven
> YOU WANT ME TO WRITE THE PROPOSAL?
I'M NOT EVEN FUCKING SANE
>
I always thought, and maybe I still think, that there was something about being a programmer, and a C++ one more specially, that highly relates with having very effective comunication skills
 
2:43 PM
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, Jun 7 at 9:53, by Telkitty
new item on fiverr: 3 upvotes on stackvoverflow or stackexchange network for $5
 
Ven
That's stupid.
 
mocked that idea before
 
@Mysticial That's hilarious, but the fact that OP can't possibly have been serious ruins it a bit.
 
user1804599
-42
Q: a demonic reputation requires a demonic notification?

ymzit just happens to me that my reputation become demonic, thus equals excactly 666! any chance to make a notification for this rare situation?

 
nwp
I wanna make a silly meta request too
"You can now trade 1000 rep to increase your daily rep cap by 1!"
it will motivate people with high rep to get even higher rep faster by spending all their rep
there is something to learn from that, not sure what
 
Ven
2:59 PM
Market cap rules?
 
user1804599
Cool, Safari RC has TCO.
 
Ven
3:35 PM
WTB foo->[x]... in C++. Like in Perl 5...
@Telkitty why did you delete that meta answer? :P
 
The answer kind of does not make sense on an old question
 
@Mysticial I'm seriously tempted to up-vote, just to give the finger to the Meta crowd.
 
@Ven What would that do?
 
Ven
@Borgleader (*foo)[x]
 
eh... i dont see how thats better than the other one its just yet another syntax
 
3:47 PM
that's shit
 
4:02 PM
I'm contemplating whether to make instruction_set_t a flag enum,
or if I should just return a vector and let someone search through it that way.
On the downside, 64 maximum values is a bit restrictive.
On the other hand, will infoware still be viable when we hit 64 different extended instruction sets...?
There's already 32 different instruction sets / features supported on hardware.
 
Ven
@Borgleader doesn't force me to go back, add parentheses, consistent with -> in general, blabla
 
Moooornin guys
 
Ven
yo
 
4:21 PM
sup - just curious - what's the usual time zone in this chat?
 
@OneRaynyDay Yes, some people around here tend to zone out at times.
 
So 6.. maybe 7
 
Ven
it's 6:30pm here
 
More completely: enough of the regular members are European (or at least reside in European time zones) that it tends to follow a Euro-centric pattern of use (e.g., use tends to be heaviest when it's evening-ish in Europe).
 
Oh... my attempt to make a vague joke happened to be pretty accurate
But thanks for clearing it up though!
 
user1804599
4:42 PM
Ugh, vandalism tolerated because "art", instead of criminals arrested.
 
user1804599
Disgusting.
 
Where.
 
user1804599
EenVandaag, Neocommunistische Propaganda Omroep
 
user1804599
Item about graffiti.
 
I mean. Where.
What.
 
user1804599
4:43 PM
Illegal graffiti in Amsterdam.
 
A friend of mine is going to Amsterdam to get his master degree in CS
He says that that university is one of the best in Europe
 
Is there a Z programming language? :)
 
@rightfold Did you go to Amsterdam's uni?
 
wat the... that moment when the unit tests use .dll and functional tests use static linking
 
user1804599
@Shoe Amsterdam University has safe spaces and fails to get drug addict vandals arrested. It's shit.
 
user1804599
4:47 PM
@Shoe I went to Rotterdam University. It's shit too.
 
@rightfold That says nothing about the quality of education
 
user1804599
Environment is important too.
 
user1804599
You'll be there a lot of time.
 
You can ignore bad environment. Just stay away from safe places and vandals and you'll be fine
 
user1804599
You must be able to withstand the SJW circlejerk and forced-fed propaganda in order not to go insane.
 
4:48 PM
@Shoe agree. Berkeley is one of the best CS schools out there, but has hobos all over the place
 
Cough
 
That doesn't sound like a problem
 
went there to visit once and everytime I tried to breathe I inhaled marijuana smoke
 
user1804599
Also you can't just attend actual universities in NL because of the broken education system.
 
SJWs give you that daily laugh you need to stay healthy
 
user1804599
4:49 PM
You need to have certain qualifications.
 
@fredoverflow It looks so friendly
 
user1804599
You need either finish the so called vwo or P.
 
user1804599
Otherwise you can't get in.
 
user1804599
And you get P in a year of college
 
user1804599
And college is boring and terrible
 
4:52 PM
AFAIK this guy is going directly to master from his Italian bachelor degree
 
user1804599
You can do that.
 
user1804599
Bachelor implies P
 
Then it's all well
@rightfold Does Bachelor also imply NP though?
I think you can win money by answering that question
 
user1804599
A better system would be one where anyone can enter. Exams have to make sure the shitty ones stay out
 
Stupid CMake broke how it finds the Lua submodule
Now none of this shit even works.
 
user1804599
4:57 PM
You could do entry exams if you're desperate about overpopulation
 
@OneRaynyDay "Two of the most famous products of Berkeley are LSD and Unix. I don’t think that is a coincidence.” (I think he missed a point though: should have said "LSD and BSD").
4
More specific, more accurate, and more euphonious.
 
poetic justice right there
 
nwp
@Mysticial this is pretty shameful
 
> I'm usually against trolling but aside from the shocking verbal abuse this guy has leveled at a bunch of hard-working and well-meaning people, I think he has some good arguments which should be considered separately from the ravings that accompanied them.

Also, you spelled "genius" wrong.
 
5:47 PM
> So... this has already been fixed for C++14 (modulo not being able to do partial specialization on functions, which would be a far less trivial request).
The most important part is partial specialization on functions. q_q
> 3. [tiny] simultaneous iteration with new-style for syntax
There's a lot of stuff in this defect report listing.
 
@fredoverflow Of course: esolangs.org/wiki/Z
@Griwes So, what did they decide in the end?
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
lool
 
23
Q: I cosigned for a friend who is not paying the payment

LeslieI cosigned for a loan for a friend. He has now moved away and is not making payments. I have been asked to pay--they even called my job--and I need to keep my credit. The payments are too high for me to manage. If I pay off the loan to keep my credit can I take him to small claims court to get my...

 
@rightfold Study stuff them buttons
 
^^ Ouch... sounds like someone had a breakup?
I've heard of similar stories.
 
@Mysticial Yikes
 
6:15 PM
The new Infected Mushroom is out. I hope it's good.
 
it's probably Infected
 
There's a Classical Mushroom feel to it. Not as much as I'd like, but it's pretty good.
Some bits sound like Blue Swan 5 too. Not bad.
 
user1804599
I wonder what trilobites taste like.
 
They look tasty.
 
Guys. Is there like Pure OpenGL Programming C++?
I see all these QT,SDL,glfw and so on..
but if you are trying to make a game engine, im sure your not gonna use those frameworks.. is there like something called pure opengl programming?
 
user1804599
6:30 PM
No
 
So how do people make game engine?
Like if you wanna make a 3D Game engine?
You use like SDL????!
 
SDL is a window manager for most people.
 
user1804599
You don't make a game engine.
 
^ that
 
Yea you do?
 
user1804599
6:31 PM
You make small libraries that do only a single thing.
 
?
 
And do them well.
Or, you focus on making the thing you're after: a video game.
 
Let me show you guys game engines
 
Please don't.
 
Thats an example...
 
user1804599
6:31 PM
All game engines are shit for exactly the reason that they are libraries that do more than one thing
 
Plonk engine: activated
 
Why are you asking us how to make a game engine if you have the capability to find open-source ones that you hold in such high regard?
 
Yea @rightfold but... How do you make game engine?
 
Read the source code and documentation.
 
6:32 PM
I like making engines..
 
1 min ago, by rightfold
You don't make a game engine.
 
On a side note, I contributed to the Solarus engine, so I better shut my mouth ._____.
 
? No srsly guys....
-_-
 
Read the source code and stop being a plebeian.
 
6:34 PM
Im not trying to use a source code @ThePhD
 
@Dsafds How many engines have you made yet, and what have you used them for?
 
If you don't understand what they're doing pick up a math book or read the paper of the technique they're implementing.
 
I havent made any.
 
How do you know you like making them then?
 
6:35 PM
@Dsafds I'm not telling you to use it, I'm telling you to read it so you can answer your own question instead of asking a too-broad, honestly incredibly stupid question.
 
Better place to ask.
 
> So my advice to you, if you’re trying to write an engine, is: don’t. No matter what your reasons are—it doesn’t matter if you’re writing an engine so you can write your dream game, or if you’re writing an engine because you think it will be a good learning experience, or any number of similar reasons—they’re all wastes of time.
 
Ven
This is a rightfold waiting to happen.
 
> You can sit down and write a game without first writing an engine, and in fact this is very often the better approach, regardless of why you want to write an engine. The entire development process goes much more smoothly if you are focused on writing a game instead: a game is much easier to identify requirements for, much narrower in focus, much more rewarding when finished, and much, much more useful.
 
user1804599
@Ven I already plonked the fool
 
6:37 PM
@fredoverflow more useful?
 
I bet more people would be willing to play a game you wrote than use an engine you wrote.
Anyway, the point of the article is than an engine grows from the experience of writing several games.
 
user1804599
I am bored.
 
The Solarus engine somehow makes sense though: it is highly specialized and dedicated to make games with the exact same gameplay (à la Zelda: A Link To The Past). But the goal was to port several amateur Zelda games.
But the engine was like the... 5th iteration of the game and its spinoffs?
 
> For any number of reasons, many neophyte game developers (and even some moderately experienced ones) seem to think that a game engine is a required, critical part of a game. They think that—in keeping with the mechanical analogy from which the term “engine” comes from in the first place—like a car, a game with no engine will simply not run.
lol
 
6:42 PM
So there is no pure OpenGL Development. Just like SDL, QT, Glfw, and so on... @fredoverflow
 
Of course there is. Have you tried to put "opengl api" or something into Google?
 
Why stop at OpenGL though? Why aren't you going lower though
 
@fredoverflow Of course no: OpenGL is impure :D
 
Write your own OS underneath your game engine and communicate with the GPU directly
 
I wanna go under lol
 
6:44 PM
Right. When I was a kid, I wrote my own matrix&vector library and triangle rasterizer.
 
@milleniumbug whats under lol.
 
just all go the way down, to transistors
 
-_-
Good one.....
 
Since you didn't specify a programming language, here is how you do OpenGL in Java:
Java OpenGL (JOGL) is a wrapper library that allows OpenGL to be used in the Java programming language. It was originally developed by Kenneth Bradley Russell and Christopher John Kline, and was further developed by the Sun Microsystems Game Technology Group. Since 2010, it has been an independent open source project under a BSD license. It is the reference implementation for Java Bindings for OpenGL (JSR-231). JOGL allows access to most OpenGL features available to C language programs through the use of the Java Native Interface (JNI). It offers access to both the standard GL* functions along...
 
Pls no Java.
 
6:45 PM
What then, Scala? Clojure? Kotlin? You can use Java OpenGL from any JVM language.
 
my point is that your specific cut-off level is just as arbitrary as mine
 
@milleniumbug its very hard to Go below OpenGL
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow COBOL
 
Do you guys reccomend a book to learn OpenGL?
 
Those guys with a performant sorting algorithm never replied to my mail :(
 
6:47 PM
@Dsafds The Elephant Book was all the rage in my days
 
@Dsafds programming is hard, accept it
 
?
i dont accept that.
Elphant book?? Wtf
 
ok, I'm gonna stop for now
just remember my words
 
Wait @milleniumbug .. you guys think ths good book? araku.ac.ir/~d_comp_engineering/88892/1323108/…
 
@Dsafds "The OpenGL Shading Language" by Randi Rost
 
6:50 PM
Shading Language?
Isnt that for shaders?
@fredoverflow
 
> glBegin
 
Do you want to learn pre-shaders OpenGL?
 
i dont know
 
@Dsafds I don't know opengl, but I just went to google.com and wrote "opengl c++ tutorial", and guess what was the first result .. opengl-tutorial.org
 
my goal is to make game engine, and games
 
6:52 PM
That's not very specific.
 
that will help me on making Kernel, since i will have more expierence in computer graphics
 
Anyway, shaders have been around for 12 years or something.
 
Wait @fredoverflow is that book only for shaders?
Or for OpenGL It self?
 
What do you mean, "only"? Everything is shaders these days in OpenGL.
 
6:53 PM
?
your confusing meh.
 
Note that "shaders" has nothing to do with "shadows" or something. That seems to be a common misconception.
 
no lol i know what shaders are
 
Ell
could you write one for us?
 
making a game engine is alot of work also
 
Anyway, before you waste money a book, I would suggest that you follow some online OpenGL tutorial and see if writing OpenGL is really that much fun.
 
user1804599
6:55 PM
OpenGL is awful
 
user1804599
Low level crap
 
user1804599
Allegro ftw
 
Ok so i first off try out the Frameworks?
 
@rightfold He specifically wants to go low level.
 
And no i am not buying books
 
user1804599
6:55 PM
What a fool
 
If you have a game in mind, try using Unity or Unreal
 
Ok so its better if i know its ...... Frameworks like SDL, and so on..
No i dont do Unity or Unreal
 
Listen, if you want to write a game engine for fun, then it doesn't matter what technology you use. By all means, use OpenGL 1.0 or whatever. But if you want to write a game engine that's actually useful to you, then it's impossible to write the game engine first and then the games later, because you have no idea what the requirements are.
Now go read some tutorials and just start somewhere.
Don't let us dictate what to do.
 
Ok thanks for advice
 
Especially not me.
And if you have any additional questions, there are OpenGL game forums, you know.
And now the Lounge can return to discussing, erm... guys, what were we discussing before?
rightfold was bored, and then something about COBOL?
 
7:02 PM
@fredoverflow There is a Z programming language! :o
 
@Morwenn Perhaps more interestingly, there's also a formal specification language named Z.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb You already know that everybody here will answer « no » :p
 
@Morwenn Oh, that language is rather new!
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb I find it offensive...but I'm offended by anything that doesn't include at least one scantily-clad (or naked) woman.
 
7:09 PM
Fibonacci in Z:
zz z zZZ  Z
zz z z  zZ  Zz
zz z Z  zz Z
ZZ z  Z
zz z Z  zZ
zz z z  zz Z
ZZ z  Z
zz z z  zZ
zz z zz  zzz
Why do I feel tired all of a sudden?
 
where is the information here
 
that's a program? I thought it was someone sleeping
 
@fredoverflow In the sound form
 
@EtiennedeMartel Heh, well that is the pitfall of kickstarters, sometimes you just dont kick hard enough
 
7:19 PM
@Borgleader But it's fishy, tough. That game they're giving a way? It's their other game.
Back when they kickstarted, they didn't have a playable prototype. Just some concept art. It was barely an elevator pitch.
They just had one idea, no start of an execution, and my guess is that they expected money to flow to them just because their idea was so unique and exciting.
They have nothing to show because they have nothing done.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Thats how KS works doesn it? I mean look at Star Citizen! :P
 
@Borgleader Thing is, you can play Star Citizen.
It's not the full game, but at least it's something.
 
I meant the money flowing to you part.
They got insane amounts from an elevator pitch and some concept art
My point is, some people see SC and think "My idea is as cool as that, let the money flood begin"
and then it doesnt
 
Yes but SC banked on two things: lack of competitors in that area, and name recognition of the lead designer.
A lot of people wanted a space sim, there's not a lot of space sims right now, and the guy who made Wing Commander shows up and says he's gonna make a space sim.
In ReRoll's case, it's a bunch of unknown dudes from UbiMtl who come and say they'll gonna be making a survival crafting game, the likes of which are flooding Steam, but with a twist that will make its development even more expensive.
 
Speaking of UbiMtl, the For Honor guy got awarded as runner up for best beard of the show (after Kratos). I find that hilarious.
 
7:34 PM
@fredoverflow Your eyes are growing heavy...all you hear is the sound of my voice. Just let go of your money stress...it is flowing out of you like water in a stream. Oh damn! Could somebody get a mop? We've got another one peeing on the stage...
 
7:52 PM
hmm
 
hello there, how can i store in a std container a type which hasn't got a default constructor ?
 
Don't use operations that require having a default constructor
(like .resize())
 
8:09 PM
@milleniumbug resize doesn't require a default ctor (if it doesn't exist, you just supply a value it can use to initialize the new objects, if necessary).
 
colleague of mine shared a link about a Scripty McScriptFace
 
@JerryCoffin Oh, you're totally right
Not sure why I was thinking in terms of C++03's .resize()
 
@JerryCoffin Ah, I didn't know that.
 
inb4 it doesn't need default constructibility either
 
There's been a few times where I had to manually pop_back() because I couldn't use resize() to shrink. Thanks!
 
8:16 PM
@milleniumbug Good call in the 'inb4' there.
 
Is there a way to make a function return different type objects depending on a template parameter. (without specialization)
Something like:
template <int x>
auto func(){
    return x < 10 ? "asdf" : 123;
}
 
Not with a single function definition
 
Ugh... I knew it'd end up being that complicated.
thanks
 
8:36 PM
he didn't.
 
@Ven You can't
 
he used it for std::enable_if<blah>::type.
if the blah is a condition that happens to include literals, then whatever.
 
Ven
ah, I actually didn't see func. duh
 
Hey guys, I'm pretty bad with streams(slept through that part of class last year) - wondering if there's any modifications to the stream into a file vs into a temporary memory buffer
I'm trying to intercept some data streamed into a file during serialization using a memory buffer, but it seems the results aren't similar(off by like 1-2 bytes)
 
wow you had a class on streams
 
Ven
8:40 PM
I had a struct
 
Not streams really but like, buffers in general, and prof went over it in like a week with an assignment
I promptly flunked the assignment but so did the rest of the class so I was saved there :)
 
Hey guys, I wrote a program and it needs a hell of a lot of computing power to run, and I'm a sucky programmer so I don't wanna bother lowering it's time complexity, so is there any service I can use that lets me rent a really strong pc to run it for me and just give me the results.txt that the program outs?
 
@OneRaynyDay How does that work?
 
Ell
@UserX amazon thingy
amazon EC2 I think
 
8:46 PM
@Michele choose a container that doesn't requite default constructability, like std::vector: en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container/vector#Template_parameters
 
@JerryCoffin I need your sense of humour to cheer me up :)
 
I'll bow out for the pros to arrive
 
I'm here
 
With a sense of humor.
 
I'm totally here.
 
8:50 PM
@Ell is that easy to use? Can I rent it for let's say 1 hour or is it commercially sold in contracts for companies?
 
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Is your google down?
 
@sehe I'm a con, not a pro. That's why my typing is usually so slow--hard to do in hand-cuffs.
 

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