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user784668
8:00 PM
@ScottW lol
 
@Gizmo Visual Studio allows code like this, which is a complete deal-breaker for beginners:
int a[10];
int i;
for (i = 0; i < 10; ++i);
{
    a[i] = 0;   // undefined behavior!
}
 
user784668
@ScottW TBH Eclipse is certainly able to compete with VS wrt freezes per hour.
 
speaking of beginner IDEs
DrRacket tells you what originates from where by drawing arrows lol
 
@fredoverflow well, ofcourse you should initialise variables
 
@Gizmo What do you mean?
 
8:01 PM
and the debugger tells you if you use an uininitialised variable
 
Racket is a decent language
 
@Gizmo There is no uninitialized variable in the code.
 
user784668
@Gizmo You apparently can't read.
 
@fredoverflow where in the standard is defined what the values of uninitialised variables should be?
i is uninitialised
 
No it isn't, it's explicitly set to 0.
 
8:02 PM
@Gizmo lol
 
no it's not
 
for (i = 0
 
Good choice
 
well then
 
@fredoverflow I don't see the undefined behaviour here.
 
8:02 PM
That's the one variable that matters here
 
didn't see that after edit
anyway
 
user784668
@Gizmo read the code scrub
 
that's not UB
 
@Puppy Garbage pointer dereference
 
@Puppy You can't write to a[10].
 
Xeo
8:03 PM
@fredoverflow you... never do?
 
Loop doesn't go to 10
 
@fredoverflow You don't write to a[10], you wrote < 10 like normal.
 
@fredoverflow We're not writing to a[10].
 
@CatPlusPlus There's no pointer in that sample.
 
fry.jpeg
 
user784668
8:03 PM
Holy shit.
 
See? Nobody noticed the semicolon at the end of the for loop. Neither did the poor beginner I tutored today.
 
user784668
It turns out most of the Lounge is blind.
 
The apparent "loop body" is executed once, with i = 10.
 
Xeo
Hahahaha
nice
 
yep, I did not notice.
 
user784668
8:04 PM
@fredoverflow I did. Cat did. So your statement is false.
 
@Fanael Or merely squinting!
 
@Fanael C89 does not have the concept of false ;)
 
Ugh, we're all bad at this game it seems.
 
just zero and nonzero
 
8:04 PM
I'm drunk
 
user784668
@fredoverflow C89 is also irrelevant in 2015.
 
Tell that to Microsoft
 
Not if your client orders a C89 course.
 
Your language is garbage and you should have a beer
 
Xeo
ew beer
 
user784668
8:05 PM
@fredoverflow Then that client is stupid or high.
 
I wish I could have a beer :(
 
also I'm doing like 15 things at a time, and others probably too,m so fss excuse the lounge for being blind, ok? no go have a life to those who do only use this chat all day without doing anythine else XD
2
 
@Fanael Dunno about the high...
@Gizmo I have Half Life, can I round that up to Life?
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus Writing in C for Windows? That's even more irrelevant!
 
@fredoverflow yes, you can :)
 
8:06 PM
Tell that to Microsoft
 
user784668
@fredoverflow No, it rounds to even, so you end up with no life.
 
Xeo
Reminds me, I bought some plum wine today
I should try it
 
@CatPlusPlus have you heard of gearman.org framework? If so, is it shit?
 
NONZERO
 
C++ quizzes are litb thing don't be that
@TonyTheLion Yes, the documentation is non-existent
 
8:07 PM
rip
 
@Gizmo have a star for gibberish
 
We use Celery but it's garbage so I don't recommend it
 
user784668
@ScottW Yes.
 
You literally need to use an undocumented CLI switch to make it work properly
@fredoverflow No
 
8:08 PM
@TonyTheLion C, PHP, perl...
lol
 
@Morwenn spreadsort isn't a comparison sort though
 
@orlp I know, but it's interesting to see how it performs.
 
are people becoming more annoying or am i becoming more angry
2
 
user784668
@TonyTheLion Yes.
 
8:11 PM
That's exactly why I'm trying to port it by the way, to see whether my library also supports non-comparion sorts.
 
I like the moustache and angry face
unfortunately moustaches can't get angry
 
user406009
Hmm, anyone willing to help me solve this problem?
I know that Z^2 has the same cardinality/size as Z. Does R^2 have the same size as R?
 
@Lalaland Did you read the rules?
 
Xeo
nom nom plum wine
 
Xeo
8:13 PM
the only acceptable kind of wine
 
screenshot of the day, demonstrating printf
 
@Lalaland tell it in Dutch and maybe I'll be able to, or Polish
 
@TonyTheLion The comments on his Facebook page are always awesome.
 
user406009
> ".jar"
 
> ".jar"
 
user784668
8:14 PM
@fredoverflow Infidel.
 
@Lalaland What .jar gonna do about it?
 
@fredoverflow remove this bad software screen from here xd
 
@Fanael Is it the operating system? :)
 
@Morwenn by the way, there is no way I could merge vergesort
@Morwenn a core property of std::sort and pdqsort is that they're in-place
 
@Gizmo "(bad software) screen" or "bad (software screen)"?
 
8:15 PM
#1
 
@orlp I know, I'm using std::inplace_merge for the job.
 
user406009
@fredoverflow Nothing. Just thought it was funny that your C interpreter is written in a JVM language.
 
you can make screenshots nicely, take that as a compliment and delete it xd
 
user784668
@Lalaland Why exactly is it funny?
 
@Morwenn that isn't in-place though
 
8:15 PM
@Fanael I presume managed code environments are for pussies or something.
 
@Morwenn "This function attempts to allocate a temporary buffer, typically by calling std::get_temporary_buffer. If the allocation fails, the less efficient algorithm is chosen."
 
user784668
@fredoverflow Are they? Hey @CatPlusPlus, what's your opinion on managed code environments?
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow what happened to homer and marge?
 
int x = 9;
stags::primitive_box<int> xbox = x;
 
I hope the word 'garbage' is involved
 
8:16 PM
get it
:v
 
user1804599
no
 
user1804599
there is no Xbox 9.
 
@elyse I got too tired of typing 5 characters ;)
 
user1804599
Only Xbox 1, Xbox 360 and Xbox 1.
 
@elyse you're right, should be 360 for pun completeness
 
8:17 PM
@orlp Well, wasn't the in-place guarantee of std::sort so that it makes sure that we can sort even when we don't have free memory?
 
Also, the /home/homer joke got old.
 
@Morwenn Among other things.
 
@fredoverflow /home/r/
 
@elyse Why is xbox 1 twice?
 
@Gizmo That's pretty funny!
 
8:17 PM
@Morwenn in general algorithms that do not allocate are valuable
 
@orlp Well, it makes sense.
 
Xeo
@Morwenn Tries to alloc temp memory via that standard temporary_buffer api, and if it can't do that, does a slower algo inplace IIRC?
 
@Morwenn also, keep in mind that user expects no memory allocations to come from std::sort
@Morwenn that memory might be required in another thread
 
Xeo
or I might be thinking of another std algo
 
user784668
@Xeo That's std::stable_sort.
 
8:18 PM
@fredoverflow I find 10 funny too
 
user784668
@Xeo std::sort just doesn't allocate.
 
Xeo
ah, kay
 
@orlp On th other hand, I never designed vergesort to replace std::sort, so that's fine :p
 
do any of you have the sympy package installed?
 
user406009
@Morwenn Does vergesort support radix sorting for the first few stages?
 
user406009
8:20 PM
That might be a cool idea.
 
@Gizmo ermagehrd did you hack Bill Gates?
 
@orlp sorry only 'build-essential'
@fredoverflow more like myself :D
I still need to change that logo though
 
@Lalaland If I made a verge_adapter, I could make a verge_adapter<spread_adapter<pdqsorter>> to have something that covers many things.
 
user406009
@Morwenn The idea is that you radix sort for like the first two digits. Then use your normal sort after that.
 
about hacking, bah, finally done with the ugly medion logo, imgur.com/a/jyuu2
 
user784668
8:22 PM
Oh.
 
user784668
So vergesort is, in general, useless.
 
user406009
Hmm, is it just me, or does the new stackoverflow favicon suck?
 
good job fanael
took you a while
 
@Gizmo Hacking would be turning "Medion" into "Mediocre" ;)
 
@Lalaland no idea because my safari doesn't even display favicons
 
user784668
8:22 PM
ikr
 
Let's say that the vergesort logic is just a layer, it could fall back to whatever O(n log n) sorting algorithm. I can make it fallback to a spreadsort that falls back to a pdqsort when the collection is too small.
 
user784668
Didn't know what this vergesort thing is.
 
@fredoverflow prolly
 
Can't you just use std::sort and move on with life?
 
@Lalaland Truth to be told, I never really looked how radix sort and spreadsort worked.
 
user784668
8:23 PM
@fredoverflow Too hard.
 
@fredoverflow That's what I do when I need to sort something.
 
or just no sort, why bother sorting, it's not like it's gonna help or something
just costs time!
 
@Morwenn you know graph algorithms need way more love
 
user784668
Identity sorting?
 
user784668
Yay I can sort in O(1) now!
 
8:24 PM
i have an idea
anyone wants to talk about it?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, I guess that there are already many people working on the problem in the Sage community.
 
no?
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz No.
 
or yes?
depends?
 
it's about implicit state sharing for networked games
 
8:25 PM
if it involves me earning good cash for no work why not
ooh games and networking
let's discuss
 
IOW "network layer for free"
well we start with the idea of game state that Hate uses - so framework-ish approach
 
@BartekBanachewicz ...and me without my firehose. I'll never make upper management at this rate.
 
Xeo
hm
 
@BartekBanachewicz well what tha hell ya waiting for, start talking gibberish
 
8:26 PM
today I learned the word "robostitutes"
 
@Gizmo so basically I was thinking if I could add something that would do automatic connection/reconnection/discovery layer
 
user1804599
@Xeo -1 slow shitty terrible website
 
basically making a multiplayer creation as dumbly simple as possible
 
Well people would love a very easy networking lib
like just connect disconnect send and OnRecv
 
never gonna happen really
 
8:27 PM
nothing more
 
networking is a tough thing and no library can change that.
 
@Gizmo too low level
 
@BartekBanachewicz so how would the communication work?
 
implicitly
you'd only observe state changes
either mutation or passing to queues or adding to collections
 
so you have a std::queue<message>
and suddenly the .size() changes?
 
8:28 PM
the premise is that you operate in update ticks
 
interesting concept
I would maybe love the dumbest networking layer ever
so long it works and is easy to use
 
well, "works" is an interesting concept
let's take some concrete example
 
yup let's do that
 
@Griwes I called the travel agent who called the airline. Anyway it's not fixed. I'll be travelling for the next 24 hours
 
imagine multiplayer snake: each player's snake is [SnakeElement]
 
8:30 PM
and I'm sleepless but who cares
 
so we assume the library does the discovery and passes the data so that ui allows you to "pair"
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl I certainly don't.
 
good
 
when you're paired, the game state starts to change on both machines, and is synchronized after every update tick
 
@BartekBanachewicz pair thel ocal instance with the remote or in what context?
pair the games?
 
8:31 PM
@Gizmo I'm using pair to mean both "connect" but also "reconnect if connection dropped" and "keep heartbeats" and "measure latency" and the like
 
okay
though what I always find difficult about such concepts is, how the sychronization is going to work, but ok let's assume it works
no need to think about how
not now at least
 
Xeo
okay, here we go
 
one obvious problem now is do we trust both parties
for simplicity, I assume we do
 
Xeo
all your vertical space are belong to Taiga
 
@BartekBanachewicz simple sanity checks, nothing too complex for now
 
8:32 PM
@Xeo awww <3
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz ok you fail at networking
 
but I think the network layer isn't supposed to do the trusting issues
 
@Fanael puppy had a point in that networking is complicated. In order to make it simple, I need to make some assumptions.
 
that's up to the game I think?
 
Oh, it looks like sino's account got deleted. I don't know if that was voluntary or not. But that's one problem out of the way.
 
8:33 PM
Well I'd like to take the burden off the game as much as possible while not sacrificing the general usability for different genres
I could imagine a few types of "synced data" being marked in a different way
 
Xeo
@Mysticial I think it was involuntary
 
such as "instant", "non-critical", the like
 
Xeo
well, he was trying to troll again, so there's that
 
@Xeo Ragequit?
 
I want to get as much data from the types and their annotations as possible
 
8:35 PM
well whatever way you imagine, sanity checks / legality of data should be implemented by the game author, maybe make some callback that asks for "correction" of supplied data
 
that's called "sanitization" usually
 
at least the logic should be implemented
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Jon took care of him, I think
 
@Gizmo ofc the framework can't deal with application logic
but it can support it
 
@Xeo What about my vertical tabs?
 
8:35 PM
@Xeo Oh, asked to be deleted. Though I that probably still counts as ragequit if it was initiated by sino.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Not asked.
Just gone
 
Oh, then mod-nuked.
 
I'm going to stream on livecoding.tv
 
user1804599
> Are chat rooms allowed to be named after genitalia?
 
so for that snake, each player would do his own simulation and exchange the state somehow
 
user1804599
8:36 PM
actually, the room wasn't named after genitalia
 
and then I'm going to stream on twitch.tv
 
Xeo
4 hours ago, by Jon Clements
be nice or be gone @Sino
 
user1804599
since rightfold's vagina has never existed
 
it would need to be specified how the states are merged and resolved
 
Xeo
4 hours ago, by Jon Clements
that's another deleted user
 
8:37 PM
Because I need to test the connection from University to the world.
 
if both players have the same conflict resolution algorithm they can just send data to each other and end up with the same state
like with Diffie-Hellman exchange
 
@elyse The lounge came first. Therefore the lounge can't be named after genitalia.
 
Because while its fast overtime Bandwidth Saturation of this all-wireless bullshit seems to be dropping / delaying packets periodically.
 
@BartekBanachewicz For certain values of "rightfold".
 
8:37 PM
> F1 is determined to be a better function than F2 if implicit conversions for all arguments of F1 are not worse than the implicit conversions for all arguments of F2, and
1) there is at least one argument of F1 whose implicit conversion is better than the corresponding implicit conversion for that argument of F2
2) or. if not that, (only in context of non-class initialization by conversion), the standard conversion sequence from the return type of F1 to the type being initialized is better than the standard conversion sequence from the return type of F2
 
user784668
@Mysticial So you can ask to have your account deleted?
 
and refp said they were "intuitive"
 
Xeo
Overload resolution is fun
 
@Fanael Anyone can do that. But I think Xeo is right in this case. Jon probably lost his patience with sino and nuked his acccount.
 
Xeo
:D
 
8:38 PM
That could work, but question, in the least possible keypoints, as precise as possible and as short as possible, highlight the library, why yours and not other
I know too genereic question, but hey it's good
 
user784668
@Mysticial Anyone? Great! Bartek, can you? Please? Pretty please?
 
@Xeo No, he removed his alts
 
@Mr.kbok For humans, only the nipple counts as intuitive (and even it's partly learned). Everything else is learned.
 
@Mr.kbok He originally had like 5 alts. They were all merged into one and then banned from chat for a few days.
 
Opening eyes is, arguably
Also complaining cc @JerryCoffin
 
8:39 PM
He came back, ticked off everyone again. And it now it looks like his primary account is gone.
 
@Mysticial No, he was chatting here a few hours ago. He logged off to watch that horrible french tv show
 
@Mr.kbok Perhaps (originally it was said about "intuitive UI"--I probably shouldn't have tried to apply it here).
 
@Mr.kbok And his account is deleted.
 
He came back the very next day
 
The account that he used to chat a few hours ago was the the primary account which all the alts were merged into. Now that account is gone.
 
8:41 PM
@Mysticial The account is dead. Long live...something other than his account.
 
@JerryCoffin He has a new account already. But with 1 rep. So that's one problem solved for the meantime.
 
user784668
@Mysticial That's 1 too much.
 
@Mr.kbok The parent user got messed up. If you click through, you'll find that the SO account has 1 rep and is brand new.
The posts that were attached to his old account now show a deleted owner.
 
oh, ok
 
8:45 PM
yo
 
@AlexM. Hi Rapptz.
 
:<
 
Meow.
Derp.
 
@Fanael pfff
 
8:47 PM
@Mysticial Forewarned is (almost) forearmed... :-)
 
@AlexM. Doesn't seem to be a song at all. Songs (by definition) have singing. That seems to be purely instrumental, not singing.
 
Xeo
 
Why is this cat a sandwich
 
Xeo
8:50 PM
taco cat
 
we can't have only cats here, I';ll make sure my statement holds
 
@JerryCoffin ok it's not
 
Xeo
no, tacocat
 
8:54 PM
user image
8
 
user1804599
@Gizmo nice.
 
user406009
@Gizmo Lol.
 
Eh, I've got pieces of stuff in my mouth and I don't know whether it's what I ate or pieces of my mouth itself.
It's troubling.
 
user1804599
spit them out regardless
 
when I want to relax I usually grab a linux program sources and feed them to visual studio directly
 
user1804599
8:58 PM
I think you mean a "GNU/Linux program"
 
@Gizmo thank god for siderails
 
GNU/Javascript
to be precise
 
user1804599
What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basi
 
help
 
ok
 
@sehe indeedddd
 
I thought overload resolution would prefer the non-template-specialization but gcc and VC complains that they are equivalent
I'd like the template to be a fallback for all overloads
 

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