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12:00 AM
@sehe Heh, Tomalak. Anakin becoming Darth Vader (LRiO).
 
@villageidiot I was looking for this: youtube.com/watch?v=9LfmrkyP81M worth watching
 
Ain't nuthin' but a G thang.
 
Thanks @sehe, checking this out now.
I'll put this on my iPhone for watching on my next couple of lunches.
in the past i tried testing gui apps with MVC. i remember hating my life and wanting to poke my brain out with a fork. i thought i'd try something new. that's why i came here with the question.
 
@villageidiot I think part that triggered my memory was around the 32 minute mark
 
12:25 AM
 
12:44 AM
I want a good reference on c++11 argument passing best practices
 
@sehe Worst thing: when you start searching for more information after you posted.. And still the only relevant topics are your own question at SO.
 
@sehe I get paid for code that works, not for code of good quality, so my philosophy is to code as fast as possible something that responds to specs without regard for maintainability.
11
 
1:00 AM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva ... i cry for your code
 
@Prismatic Dave Abrahams had a nice article on the topic on the now-defunct cpp-next blog. RIP.
 
@LucDanton Wasn't that pre-c++11
 
No, hence the 'next' in the name.
 
Also yeah, RIP. There's a broken link or two on SO
I guess I could find it on archive
The original link is:
http://cpp-next.com/archive/2009/08/want-speed-pass-by-value/
'2009'
 
Yes.
'Next'
do you get it
not 'in the past'
the future, if you will
 
1:05 AM
also good morning most of you
 
@LucDanton No, I don't get it
 
'What you will do in C++11 which is the next C++'
A past future.
 
-std=c++next always a step ahead
 
tl;dr: time travel
 
1:07 AM
what is the design pattern for that
i don't understand
 
ITT pass-by-value is a design pattern
 
"There is an issue with your drive..." "Windows successfully scanned the drive. No errors were found."
 
They meant tissue. The computer was telling you about the complimentary handkerchief that comes with.
 
This is what I typically do for argument passing
void ReadThing(Thing const &) { /* ... */ }
void SetMovableThing(MovableThing thing) { m_thing = std::move(thing); }
void SetNonMovableThing(NonMovableThing thing) { m_thing = thing; }
 
In your third example, the Thing is obviously move-assignable.
 
1:14 AM
they should have been different types
 
Probably because FAT-32-BUT-ACTUALLY-28 format has been wrongly interpreted by so many parties on so many different levels, it probably objected to the way it was formatted via newfs_msdos on OS X. But it didn't modify the boot sector or the BPB within it, just "accepted" it.
 
Racial tolerance at the filesystem level
 
@Prismatic no I'm a white mage
healer = best role
busy 100% of the time and if you screw up everyone dies
suspense and stress++
 
Healer is the best role when you never heal anyone and you enjoy their delicious tears. But the key is to stop healing at a crucial point when they invest a lot of time and effort, the closer you are to the end, the more delicious the tears.
 
sadistic edging?
 
1:19 AM
Can you have multiple jobs?
 
yes
 
white mage / time mage in final fantasy tactics was so good
 
I wouldn't call it sadistic, I've just never been invested in a game like many people are. Some folks I knew played WoW for days. I couldn't play it for 2 hours straight and I yawned the entire session. I am yawning now.
 
there are classes and jobs
I'm actually a conjurer with the white mage job
 
what is the design pattern for that
ok, bad joke ;)
 
1:20 AM
you can become a white mage once you reach lv 30 conjurer and lv 15 arcanist
 
haste+shell+protect your party, slow your enemies
 
@JohnP.Feltz Left right left right triangle square right
 
heal with the occasional holy
 
@AlexM. How to become a black mage? Or say, pacific islander mage?
 
African American Mage*
 
1:25 AM
I want a white robe but I gotta wait until at least lv 50
 
might be a little too offensive
 
Yeah people get offended by drawings nowadays I heard.
 
I am like... Soooo offended. hand gestures
 
2:03 AM
rip
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Unfortunately I'm at a small enough school that the only Microsoft representitive is coming for the first time this year
 
that doesnt mean anything really - apply to the freshman-only programs
i know google/microsoft interns from southern methodist univ
and a google intern from marist college
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf that's true. It's just that I don't really know what they want
 
once you get your foot in the door you're good, you just need one "brandname"
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Oh I see
How do they think about academic-research related jobs?
I currently have one with the local cancer center doing app work for a bioinformatics group
 
2:16 AM
are you in texas by chance? MD Anderson? > what's the name?, Weil? Mayo?, ...ucla?
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I'm at the University of Hawaii at Manoa.
@EiyrioüvonKauyf BOOM! (bet you weren't expecting that)
 
yes i was, one of my math deans was from there, i know a few people there, i'm guessing UH cancer center? and probably manoa?
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf mhm
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Well, where have you worked or know people that worked?
@EiyrioüvonKauyf So Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Intel/IBM, etc.?
Okay so that settles it--uhhhh
Can you tell me about what each one focuses on or does? I know they're all very spread out, but I was wondering if they like to make use of certain major technologies
Or where they have demand?
 
no one /really/ cares about certain techs
they dont want specialization - unless you're a phd, you're a generalist, they want experience, working with other people, and general algo skills
all interviews are those 3
a combo of software design questions, algo questions, usually an HR component with HR/a manager usually they also ask about what you have done in the past
 
Microsoft does, they occasionally select interns based on a targeted tech stack, e.g. Javascript, or web development experience
 
2:22 AM
@JohnP.Feltz that's more rare, also google /sometimes/ does that because MS and Google you interview with teams
rather than a general pool
 
Ya, it's touch and go, sometimes Microsoft will come to campus and give you a heads up as to what they're looking for
I was rejected because I couldn't come up with a technology specific test plan for Bing Maps, in third interview
lol
 
i would argue that's design, not tech stack
tech stack questions would be like use this C# library
 
Yeah, you see, that's what concerns me
 
you should be generally familiar with how to get things done in at least a few major languages or be able to pseudocode /at least/
you realize most languages have nearly the same features, or you can build them trivially (not that you ever should except in interviews)
 
You can say they want a "generalist," but ultimately, there are specific technologies or designs that better prospects would know
@EiyrioüvonKauyf "trivally" oh god but that's not really fair
 
2:26 AM
yes, you should be able to write most datastructures in C++
 
Imagine implementing R lists and environments on a global scale
 
datastructures, yes asking for linkedlist / array list/ tree list / etc
 
@Prismatic Heh, I just implemented the part of the C++ runtime for my kernel that slaps you with something similar for calling pure virtuals.
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf why do you keep doing the //
 
BIKESHED
 
2:26 AM
Although, given that it is my hobby project, my message is a bit more offensive. As it should be.
 
@VermillionAzure sorry i forgot SO chat supports * and **
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf i see
 
returns( a, b, c ) = returns_a_tuple_like_structure( d, e, f );
 
Bah...
 
Is returns a good name?
 
2:27 AM
if you do algo questions, there really isnt a way to solve those without
 
@ThePhD what does it do
@EiyrioüvonKauyf "ih?"
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Are there any special ones I should know?
 
Takes something like vec3, allows you to return into a, b, c as separate variables (each one is a float in the vec3 example).
 
I've gone through the classic queue, dequeue, array, vector, linked list, and maybe map
 
uhm thsose are like intro cs
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf So I'm missing some
 
2:28 AM
there are many more, i argue many problems are trees/graphs at some point
 
@ThePhD split? select? slice-su?
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I've seen a little bit of code with node-edge graphs
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva return_into, maybe?
 
Are you recreating std::tie
 
2:29 AM
Also, the corporate life isn't all that. Really it can be pretty awful. Lots of lifers. And in many cases you don't get paid based on how good you are.
 
No, because this is more extensible and less shitty.
 
@VermillionAzure this is i argue the most general people.cs.vt.edu/shaffer/Book/C++3e20100119.pdf
 
@ThePhD How exactly
 
the last part on complexities usually isnt covered except at some more esoteric companies or fun interviewers
 
@ThePhD split-bind?
 
2:30 AM
but note every interviewer also makes up their own shit for the questions (usually)
but note every interviewer also makes up their own shit for the questions (usually), some companies have realized that's silly and if you're being hired for a specific role there's also that
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I'd imagine I should know stuff like hash maps and binary trees as well
 
yup, hash maps are more or less the only way to do a lot of things in O(n) time
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Make a class triad. Give it first, second, third members. Overload std::get and all of the relevant tuple stuff for it, just like for std::pair. Try to use std::tie( a, b, c ) = my_triad;. Cry tears that it doesn't work.
 
also anything you solve, tell me the complexity of it
the tech question part of tech interviews tend to go a few problems like 1) get problem description 2) clarify it 3) brute force 4) better solution 5) complexity of both
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf oh man
 
2:32 AM
Point being, tuple's operator= is a tad more strict in that it only accepts tuples or std::pair's. Everything else does not work.
 
I guess I better learn everything in this then
 
it's a few years of courses :P
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Unfortunately I may never get to some of these
 
this is why cs people are skeptical of hackschool/makeschool/code school, because there's 0 way they covered all of this
 
I'm in a computer engineering program, not computer science
 
2:33 AM
ahh, it will be slightly different then depending where you apply and how you apply
if you apply for SE roles (software eng) it will be mostly the same
 
@VermillionAzure Those are okay names, but.... eh. Not sure.
 
if you apply for hardware, you better verilog well
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I'm considering either trying to get a job with something lower-level or maybe data science
 
What is the operation where you take a tuple and unpack it?
 
@ThePhD idk you're taking something whole and then splitting it into its components
 
2:33 AM
be able to draw me circuits etc, there's a lot of ways hardware can go - the issue is jobs are harder there
 
power-splice?
@ThePhD doleout lol
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Oh jesus I'm not looking for hardware, honestly
 
Unpack, actually, would be a good name, but that's for the unpacking of the tuple, not necessarily "connect these values with each part of the tuple".
 
Especially hardware design
 
also data science ....? i would question if anyone except a startup would hire you for that without at least a few grad ML classes
that's usually what you hire phd's for
 
Goddamnit why does the standard have to take tie .-.
 
2:34 AM
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I've been working with a few graduate students and a PhD as my mentor
 
also buzzwords annoy a lot of people, so dont do them
 
recieve ?
 
shrug, you have to make the case
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf scrum AGILE node.js *.js containers docker Go Rust Haskell handlebars
 
Ooh, take!
take( a, b, c )
 
2:35 AM
@ThePhD what, no
 
Fight me. >:l
 
@ThePhD you're taking A --> A1, A2, A3
 
@ThePhD unpack lol
 
@VermillionAzure unfortunately consultants and a bunch of big companies are a fan of scrum and agile
 
However what you're doing is called destructuring
 
2:36 AM
place( a, b, c )
 
facebook uses a modified version
 
@ThePhD no
This doesn't imply you place directly into memory
 
those arent really buzzwords as much as technologies, just be able to explain why you like them and what you think they're good at and you're good
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Yeah
Thank you for the book, though
 
i mean like cloud, big data, synergy, "do you use hadoop" , along those lines
the book was just from the internet
 
2:37 AM
into ?
into( a, b, c )
 
@ThePhD no, because that doesn't really tell you anything
 
That's actually not too bad.
 
i googled "cs data structures" and took the first one with heaps, graphs, trees, skip lists that i saw
 
a function should be a verb
@EiyrioüvonKauyf So I'm missing heaps, graphs, trees, skip lists
 
well there are more
 
2:38 AM
@VermillionAzure Well you didn't like take D:<
 
but those are common ... shiet i need to work on this too sigh,
 
@VermillionAzure main would like a word with you.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva main isn't a traditional function. It's the program itself.
4
 
stupid algo problems arent something you solve by reading datastructures usually, they're by solving them again and again till you realize some problem just looks like another that you've solved before :|
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Sounds like math proofs
 
2:39 AM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva That information hasn’t been declassified.
 
link ?
knot
 
FFS now I just want to call it marry again.
 
chain
 
allistair
marry_mother_of_jesus
 
2:40 AM
~anastasia~
 
@VermillionAzure at proof-y univs, cs programs actually are proofs
 
@LucDanton Took me a for
 
formal verification of programs treat them as proofs
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf They introduce discrete math and...
 
2:40 AM
@VermillionAzure cleavage
 
because programs are just questionable series of reductions
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Wait, everyone's been telling me that you can't do this because of the halting problem
 
What's the art of binding a bunch of elements together?
 
lol @VermillionAzure define "everyone"
 
@ThePhD Holy marriage (or civil union)
 
2:41 AM
there are certain things you can and cant do
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf everyone in LoungeC++
@ThePhD That's difference
you're doing the reverse
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I was going to be like YES, UNION, and then union was already a keyword.
 
I have never told anyone anything of the sort.
 
@ThePhD united_we_stand
 
you cant prove an arbitrary program
 
2:42 AM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva unite !!!
That's it!
 
Guys, you wanna buy some magic?
 
but you can strengthen your assumptions to prove a lot of shit
 
Based Anastasiya.
 
@ThePhD DISJOIN
 
Or, OR! For shorter, bond.
 
2:42 AM
conjoin/disjoin
 
Yes.
Bond. I like it.
 
inb4 james joke
 
bond( a, b, c ) = single_value;
 
@ThePhD std::tie friend.
 
2:43 AM
@ThePhD disband
disjoin
unjoin
 
@VermillionAzure e.g. sas2015.inria.fr/program.html
is one of the many conferences of "formal verification" which is very much a field
 
14 mins ago, by Anastasiya Asadullayeva
Are you recreating std::tie
 
another example of this is type systems, which are proofs for types, so .... you are proving parts of C++ lol (ok technically not C++ but parts of the compiler enforced shiet)
 
@Rapptz Mine is going to be better than tie. D:<
 
Severely doubt it.
$65 it isn't going to be better than std::tie
 
2:44 AM
Specifically in that it's extensible beyond tuple's operator= overloads. I'm still going to derive from std::tuple, though.
 
let's go Lounge<Gambling>
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf But people are saying it's impossible to verify programs that are Turing-complete
 
In the general case, it's impossible.
 
If they make use of things like infinite loops or recursion
 
" halting problem is the problem of determining, from a description of an arbitrary computer program and an input, whether the program will finish running or continue to run forever."
 
2:45 AM
Also, isn't the halting problem just a weird version of, "is there an end to infinity?"
 
Jesus Cinch read on the halting theorem for fuck sake
 
yes. i cannot verify an arbitrary program
 
@Rapptz That’s a very specific amount of monies.
 
no spoon feeding
 
can I go back in time in git land and then do a git amend to that specific commit?
 
2:45 AM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I'm trying and I can't find a good way to understand it
 
let's find out
 
arbitrary usually means some evil shit, you always assume evil shit, because the universe tends to hate you
 
will my repository explode?
 
you'll rewrite history
 
pime taradox
 
2:46 AM
good
I don't like "Oops I'm literally retarded" commits
no one shall know
 
that means all forward commits will get detached from that you know
 
so no matter what you do (so far) we dont have a way to magically determine if something halts given arbitrary input... good thing our input isnt always arbitrary
 
rip history
 
I'll rebase :smirk:
 
i like the way you think
 
2:47 AM
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Well isn't that kind of useless then? That's like saying that a function is undefined if you can give it anything
 
when will SO chat get shitposting emoji support
it's not the same
 
But mathematical functions usually have a domain and range for which they're defined, right?
 
$450 for a 1TB SSD, not bad. Not good either, but not bad.
 
whats 'shitposting emoji'
 
k let's try out my amend + rebase idea
 
2:49 AM
seems high but I haven't been shopping for PC parts recently
 
@VermillionAzure uhm so i dont know if you know this ... but everything in the world is tradeoffs, hardware, software, humans
 
@ʞɔᴉN Damn you and the USA :P
 
bleeping eyes take up > 20% of our energy
 
it's the only emoji worth using
 
oh god @Rapptz why
 
2:50 AM
smug emoji
 
omg, 250-300 USD in the US.
 
lol with that glass effect that dates back from 2004
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf right
 
best part
 
hello crystal clear icons
 
2:50 AM
shiny/glossy effects on icons offend me
 
that's why I chose it
 
so cant have everything, if you could, you would be creating information (i argue) and entropy doesnt allow that
 
cause it's extra funposting
 
Flat icons for life.
 
@Rapptz That emoji is yellow? That's racist.
 
2:50 AM
@ElimGarak why is it so much higher where you are?
 
you got something against lego people friend?
 
@Rapptz Yeah. They're all identical. I can never tell them apart.
 
@ʞɔᴉN Europe is offensive!
 
and you call me racist
 
... I have the sudden urge to google 'diverse lego'
 
The results can't be good though
 
Ah yes the famous racial diversity mantra
cancer
 
Can 3d printers print lego-like pieces
 
lego minifigures were yellow because it was decided that it was the safest color, as it would be the least likely to offend people
they're all sorts of colors now though
 
I have no idea what kind of material strength your average 3d printer material has
 
2:53 AM
Well as a native chinese I am offended
 
@Prismatic yup that's not bad and a lot of decision problems are phrased using that stupid diamond box or one of it's cousins
 
>STEMtistics
 
well someone's always going to find a reason to be offended :P
 
this offends me
 
sorry!
 
2:55 AM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva That's cultural appropriation.
 
i'll steal your culture and there's nothing you can do about it
 
@Rapptz Grow a thicker skin.
 
i'm a culture pirate
 
Offense-taking is not your exclusive privilege!
 
I don’t know how to feel about that.
 
2:56 AM
guys
lucdoc has gotten pretty complicated
 
@Rapptz uhm..
 
Should I allow bond( a ) = returns_single_value ?
 
make use of more verbols and funcitons
 
what is your fancy doc tool about any way
 
I probably should.
 
2:56 AM
can we get a summary
 
It's probably necessary.
 
so complicated that pprint.pprint can't even print the tree I'm creating
(nah, that's because pprint sucks at printing OrderedDicts.)
It's a crappy Sphinx autodoc tool.
I don't know what to call it.
I can't call it autodoc.
That name is taken.
 
I can't call it lucdoc either.
 
2:58 AM
@EiyrioüvonKauyf um so
 
At first I thought "lucdoc" was somehow related to @LucDanton
 
cause
 
@VermillionAzure you can ignore the halting problem, most engineers dont know shit about it unfortunately
 
@EtiennedeMartel that is indeed the joke amigo
 
2:59 AM
IMO it blends well with the other products of LucSuite, such as lucpm and lucbs
 
Kinda uncreative then.
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I wanted to study the halting problem and static analysis
 
Why confuse users
 
shinydoc
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf So right now I drew out something on a whiteboard
 
2:59 AM
call it nickdoc
 

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