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12:00 AM
?
 
user3010322
@Rapptz Well, for that I just use VS, since it's easy to include all the stuff and build it.
 
 
@Blob what OS do you use?
 
user3010322
Someone used the Photoshop Cloud feature.
 
the black and white chess pieces have the exact same colors
 
12:01 AM
@Nooble ganoo/leenox
 
@orlp Lol.
Sigh
Now I have to sample the photo.
 
@orlp Really?
 
To prove that I'm not crazy.
 
@Cinch check it in GIMP
 
@orlp No, I'm too busy doing line integrals I don't have time for that shit
 
12:03 AM
@orlp They're not the same.
 
@Nooble yeah they are
 
Wait....
I'm checking again.
 
just grab a selection from one piece
and overlay it at the other side
 
@orlp Okay that is a work of art
That's like 8-bit-type bounded creativity times modern age right now
 
@orlp I sampled the colors, they're not the same.
 
12:06 AM
@Nooble are you using a color picker?
 
There's too much fog to really say what I should be sampling anyway.
Yeah.
 
@Nooble you're doing it wrong
just grab a rectangle from the insides of a chess piece at the top
copy it
and overlay it on the bottom side
you'll see it fits perfectly
 
So much effort on silly optical illusion
 
Okay.
 
Don't you have better things to do
 
12:07 AM
@CatPlusPlus I'm in this lounge - clearly I do not.
 
Okay so if I were to create a basic programming specification
 
this is fucking sorcery
 
what should it have?
 
i tried to copy C++'s once, but i had too little to write about
 
I'm starting a tutoring/teaching verification/certification/academic company and I want to eventually include a CS aspect
 
12:09 AM
@Blob you're joking right?
 
and at some point i got lazy and stopped.
nope.
 
@Blob what's this supposed to be
 
i could add maybe ~3 more pages (detailing what i've added recently) to get ~10 pages, but that's pretty short
@orlp a langauge
 
@orlp I have no clue how to cut something.
God I suck at GIMP.
 
user3010322
Why does sol take so goddamn long to build in mingw...
 
12:10 AM
@Nooble tools->selection tools->rectangular select
 
 
Yeah I selected it.
 
ctrl-x ctrl-v move around
i'm sure there's a better way but i'm not aware of it
 
@Blob the C++14 specification is 1366 pages long
@Blob are you claiming to be able to compress 1366 pages into 10?
 
Oh god you're right.
Seems as though there's a bug in my visual system.
 
12:12 AM
@orlp no. mine's for my own language. i have only the most basic and essential functionality (one level above conditional jumps (i do have those too)), and don't have much to write about
 
@Blob fml this whiz kid right here
 
@Cinch i probably know the least about everything in this room
 
@Blob and you say you make your own language
 
it's crappy
 
and what's it made in?
 
12:14 AM
Wood.
 
/dev/null
 
started off in C++ but then i thought i could dump this for my IntroCS project (which has to be in python), so i moved over to python. I want to re-implement it in C++ when I have time, though :|
 
Those are the two kings.
They don't look like the same color.
 
12:15 AM
select in the piece
not around
 
i think the final project also needs to be web-based, so i'll have to make some website with a textbox and a button that interprets code you paste in
 
@Blob fucking whiz kid
hahaha :)
 
@Nooble What they look like is irrelevant. Grab one, paste it in a separate layer, overlay it on the other, and apply a difference operation between the layers.
 
or rather maybe you're just all smarter over there
 
@Nooble it's the surroundings making it look different. the inner parts are the same color.
 
12:18 AM
Robbery at nano-scale:
 
@ThePhD Why do you care about ninja, then? AFAIK Ninja can't generate VS project files.
 
-1
Q: Why would cryptography fall apart if there were a finite number of primes?

jaskaI vaguely know that prime numbers are very important in cryptography, but I assume for most encryption methods, they tend to stay rather 'small'. Are we really using massive prime numbers for encryption? Why would modern encryption start to fail if the set of prime numbers was finite?

lol
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I test both: I certify the tests pass and run in a VC++ VS build, and then I do the same with ninja and g++ (maybe clang if I want to be extra pedantic).
 
But why do you need .libs then?
g++ can't handle those, can it?
 
user3010322
It can't handle the VC++ ones, but I do the whole make mingw thing that lua asks me to do, struggle with the new errors they introduced in 5.3.0 in the mingw build, and then compile the tests with the mingw-compiled liblua.a
 
12:24 AM
So annoying
I asked a question on CS.SE
and it got answered plenty, yet I don't understand the answer :(
8
Q: Solving recurrence relation with two recursive calls

orlpI'm studying the worst case runtime of quicksort under the condition that it will never do a very unbalanced partition for varying definitions of very. In order to do this I ask myself the question what the runtime $T(n, p)$ would be in the case quicksort always happens to partition in some frac...

 
lol
 
user3010322
u_u
 
user3010322
I need a real type_list meta class to be in the std::
 
user3010322
Recursion makes it really easy to do things backwards...
 
> You need to add extra byte that will be taken care by pragma packing.
 
user3010322
12:43 AM
@ParkYoung-Bae Thanks for the help earlier: I managed to get sol building and all the tests passing today!
 
user3010322
So VC++ can now build sol, woo! \o/
 
No prob :)
 
I might make a vc-hacks branch
 
user3010322
Pfff.
 
user3010322
This branch is cleaner than the original. :c
 
12:56 AM
Also I've tried finding the MS Connect bug report for this very bug and haven't found it, might be worth opening then.
 
user3010322
@ParkYoung-Bae I opened it.
 
Link so I can upboat it pls
 
user3010322
Oh, wait.
 
user3010322
I lied, I opened one for the linker regression, not this one.
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
12:57 AM
I can make a SSCCE for the this one, though.
 
user3010322
But I need to like, uh. Finish this work.
 
msvc has so many bugs it's hard to keep track of what you've reported?
 
user3010322
It's actually impossible for me to keep track of the others I filed, because I filed them while I was interning at Microsoft directly into the bug database.
 
user3010322
I think they've been fixed because they were all related to nonius, sol, and ogonek.
 
user3010322
12:59 AM
Seeing as I can now compile nonius properly and have it have correct <chrono> support, and now that sol can compile with some minor cleanups... I think I've been successful.
 
> decleration
is it possible to edit?
 
@ThePhd as Microsoft intern. Job description: Tested Lounge libraries for MSVC compatibility.
6
:P
Good morning.
 
user3010322
@ParkYoung-Bae Upboated and commented.
 
@ThePhD Btw, nonius now compiles with cl through ninja. (Well, the examples and the tests, I mean)
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes \o/ Praise the lawd!
 
1:02 AM
I wouldn't mind contributions on cl.exe flags
 
user3010322
I remember I had to make this code in sol ugly because of VC++... but we dropped VC++ support and never changed it back.
 
I haven't gotten around to it cause I don't use MSVC
 
@Rapptz Re: my earlier comment on defining a parser cum serializer in one go, I realised how to describe how that goes: it’s the 'Types don't know #' approach.
 
> cum serializer
 
You've shown me that.
 
1:04 AM
The serialization thing? That was with you?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Can you even make it parallel?
 
@MarkGarcia That'd make a great research topic
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah yeah that's essentially all I need. Thanks!
 
user3010322
I think back then I didn't understand that this couldn't be used, plus there was actually another decltype bug that @Xeo filed against VC++ back them after comprising an SSCCE. Now that we know that this can't be used, plus the other things, I think I can clean that code up.
 
1:07 AM
Ugh large source code (but not large enough to not be shown automatically) on Github chokes Firefox.
 
I wish we had another browser.
@LucDanton Yes.
 
@Rapptz I'm waiting for Spartan.
 
oh alright then
I guess it was exactly for JSON stuff then?
I don’t know why I barely remember that discussion
 
it was a basic kv-pair thing.
People here tend to not remember things lol
I feel like the weird one who does sometimes
 
user3010322
Remember which things? :o
 
1:11 AM
Previous conversations!
 
user3010322
Ah.
 
user3010322
Awesome, only 3 failed assertions left.
 
I love how VS reports "use of deleted function ..." in places completely unrelated to their actual usage
 
@Rapptz I do remember it was through that discussion that I realised that approach is static reflection seen through an inversion of control though. I feel like that was the important point.
 
> Error 12 error C3536: '$S16': cannot be used before it is initialized
what.
 
user3010322
1:17 AM
Lmao
 
user3010322
Compiler generated crap is freaking out, nice!
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
All's well again! \o/
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Would it make you feel better if I make GCC suffer a little tonight?
 
I'm fed up with VS and I want to cuddle with GCC, actually. Don't make him suffer!
 
1:19 AM
@LucDanton Ah.
 
I.e. compare for(member: members_of(foo)) bar(member);, i.e. external iteration via static reflection; to auto bar(Algo algo) { algo(member1); algo(member2); … } i.e. internal iteration via the approach in question
see it now?
 
user3010322
Ugh.
 
user3010322
I'm afraid of cleaning it up.
 
@ThePhD hey you're using catch
that's a lot of tests
 
user3010322
It takes a million years to compile on g++. :v
 
user3010322
1:23 AM
There's a warning when Catch compiles with VC++
 
user3010322
But it compiles a lot faster than g++
 
have you tried clang?
 
Apr 12 '13 at 15:53, by R. Martinho Fernandes
[Testing completed. 2 of 33 test cases failed (25264 of 236081 assertions failed)]
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes holy shit
 
@Pris Not really.
 
user3010322
1:24 AM
@Pris shit the holy
 
@Pris lol
That's nothing
 
user3010322
DIVINE 💩💩💩
 
@ThePhD Only sol's tests.
@ThePhD I tested compile times on another tests I do (16 files, 998 tests, 27 test cases) and it takes 600ms.
That includes linking though
 
user3010322
Wonder why sol takes such a while, then...
 
1:31 AM
Template heavy?
 
user3010322
Hmmm.
 
user3010322
sol is header only to the max, so.
 
Gears has worse templates than Sol.
 
user3010322
YES
 
user3010322
I could chop out so much of that ugly detail we had to go through because VC++ couldn't handle partial explicit args with the rest being inferred, but now it can!
 
user3010322
1:38 AM
Ugly code, BEGONE! \o/
 
Note if you support only latest latest MSVC you might as well not be supporting it all
 
user3010322
Everyone who doesn't upgrade can go to hell! :D
 
HI THERE FOLKSESS
 
user3010322
At the very least, it'll work for me. When everybody's ready to catch up, they can go ahead and get on that. :D
 
@CatPlusPlus I tried telling him that earlier
At least support VS2013 otherwise uh
 
user3010322
1:44 AM
VS 2013 can't support the code.
 
VS 2013 can barely support itself
 
user3010322
It is physically incapable of handling the variadic templates.
 
user3010322
I was maintaining VS 2013 support for sol through the CTPs, but Rapptz made infrastructure changes (necessary ones) and VC++ snapped in half. I tried to get around it, but then VS 2013 also couldn't handle many types of SFINAE and also broke.
 
lol nobody uses CTP for anything other than testing
 
1:45 AM
Variadics work "just fine" (for a reasonable definition of fine) in VS2013
 
You're a terrible maintainer
 
user3010322
At that point, there was nothing I could do without invoking some neck-breaking black magic, and nobody's paying me any cash to make this library work with black magic, so I stopped maintaining VS 2013 support.
 
I mean sure develop better code for future if you want, but if you drop support like that, nobody will want to use your thing
 
"VS CTP" = "Visual Studio: Completely Terrible Product"
2
 
user3010322
1:47 AM
It already works for clang++ and g++; turns out that's what most users were using anyways.
 
@ThePhD Fact: about 12 people on earth use VS2015. The rest of VS users are stuck somewhere between 2008 and 2012.
 
user3010322
So those people were fine. Nobody's complained about VC++ support so far, probably because most of the VC++ people are still getting to the beginnings of C++11 and going "WOW, THIS IS COOL."
 
@πάνταῥεῖ is the new Vlad, I've noticed. In terms of repwhoring I mean
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit >|
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit MSVC: Most Seriously Vexing Compatibility
 
1:49 AM
Lightness on Repwhoring, what's next, China on Democracy?
 
You accidentally complimented me
 
@ThePhD Probably because nobody uses it :v but what I'm saying is that nobody will if you don't use reasonable deprecation schemes
 
unless China recently became offensively democratic and I didn't hear about it
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm just bored of closing every beginners questions :)
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus The deprecation schemes are fine! But, uh, there's one thing I'm worried about, and that's the derp I had when I first created the userdata type. u.u; That has to be removed, but the API is already 1.0, so any breaking changes that fix the hoary problems with that have to be shifted to a 2.0 release.
 
user3010322
1:52 AM
I also have to write MOAR DOCS.
 
user3010322
Oh, also @Rapptz did you come to a conclusion about table_iterator yet?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ It's much better to close them than to answer them sir,,,
 
seems pointless
 
And dropping support for compilers is right there with breaking API changes
 
@CatPlusPlus A lot of people use it.
 
user3010322
1:53 AM
@CatPlusPlus To be fair, VC++ support was dropped down a hole before 1.0 was ever released.
 
user3010322
So we technically had no real allegiances.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm still on my way to find the right balance.
 
user3010322
I was still sad about it, though.
 
lol allegiances
your only allegiance should be to me, sunshine
 
user3010322
1:55 AM
Is that a quote from somewhere?
 
user3010322
Also.
 
it's a quote from the Lounge. from 30 seconds ago.
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
g++ accepts! \o/
 
Flagging "gay" lol
 
1:55 AM
# default
COMPILE.C = $(COMPILE.cc)
Why does this happen with make?
 
Oh for fuck's sake
 
Why does what happen
 
That.
 
Okay
I'll just move on
 
Be brave
 
1:56 AM
I wish I could VTC Lounge conversations ;)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Compiling C files is using g++ to compile and gcc to link.
I can't figure it out.
 
I love when you write an codes and then everything fits together like magic
 
user3010322
@ParkYoung-Bae I miss that feeling.
 
Make sucks
That's why anything make
 
@CatPlusPlus "Make sucks" Certainly less than CMake :-P ...
 
1:59 AM
It's bugging the shit out of me.
I don't even get why.
 
@ThePhD Why, nothing fits anymore? :)
 
Maybe this make version is buggy.
 
user3010322
@ParkYoung-Bae Everything is an uphill battle when you're trying to variadic variadic what the hell with VC++.
 
CMake is a different kind of thing
 
user3010322
2:01 AM
The good news is I'm going to take a break and use well-proven, pre-compiled libraries to get a bunch of work done.
 
In order to solve it I have to do CXX=gcc.
But that seems odd.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae That's not a reasonable definition of 'fine'.
It's a wishful thinking definition.
 
For my wishful thinking definition they mostly work
 
@Rapptz Setting CC doesn’t work?
 
@ThePhD Reusing well proven, readily available libraries that do what you want? You'd make a terrible webdev.
 
user3010322
2:06 AM
@ParkYoung-Bae I've been trying to teach myself a compile-to-JS recently!
 
user3010322
I installed emscripten, Typescript, and Coffeescript.
 
Good job, now uninstall them.
 
user3010322
After a few tests related to scope and variable shadowing in CoffeeScript I decided *Script languages weren't for me.
 
user3010322
I'm going to probably do any JS dev with emscipten and maybe Typescript, but... that's about it.
 
TS isn't too bad
 
2:08 AM
Emscripten is for specialised purposes p much
 
user3010322
Well, it can apparently compile simple C++, and since I'm not trying to get things like Cacao running... I think it'll be a nice way to worm into JS without ever actually touching JS! \o/
 
Yeah no it'll suck
 
Unreal engine games compiles to JS with emscripten, so it kind of works better than expected.
 
@LucDanton No.
Only CXX.
It's only a half-fix though.
 
lol
 
2:11 AM
Because it uses CXXFLAGS too instead of CCFLAGS
So if there are compiler flags they're empty.
 
user3010322
It's beautiful \o/
 
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
Every minor release of LESS breaks shit
 
user3010322
Uh. @Rapptz, how do I make a new target branch when I make a pull request? I want to push this into something like sol/v2.0 or something, not sol/master
 
You don't know how to use git?
Just make a new branch
And push that branch
 
user3010322
I made my own api-fix branch, but github isn't really letting me make a pull request that targets a branch that doesn't exist on your thing...
 
2:18 AM
er
 
Push it real hard!
 
user3010322
Do I just PR against master and then you'll pull it into a real branch?
 
you can't make branches on my end
just make the PR and I'll put it in a separate branch through CLI
 
user3010322
Hokay.
 
user3010322
... Uh.
 
user3010322
2:20 AM
So github just decided that rather than let me make a new one, it'd change the branch of my other open PR.
 
user3010322
 
You're really good at this git thing.
:)
@MarkGarcia lmao
 
2:22 AM
Strange behavior, I can't see any evidence why a friend declaration should be necessary for this case. — πάντα ῥεῖ 1 min ago
Can someone explain this?
 
It's not and also it has nothing to do with this being a struct
 
user3010322
@MarkGarcia ;~; I'm getting better!
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Simple: lies.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've seen a lot of strange behaviors with VS already :-P ...
But you're probably right.
 
I want to learn the ways of OpenID Connect and become a wizard, like someone before me.
 
2:41 AM
@πάνταῥεῖ maybe that vc++ version isn't what vs2013 uses
can't think of a reason for him lying about that
 
goodnight kiddiwinks
 
@Blob C++ (vc++) and C - Microsoft (R) C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 18.00.21005.1 for x86
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Good night.
 
I don't know which VS version this actually is
 
2:44 AM
Arrogant wankers ignoring a great opportunity
I shall just leave you with that
 
2:56 AM
@CatPlusPlus Webcome to the web
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "We'll stop our nuclear program! We promise!"
 
So, turns out this month was the coldest February in 115 years, in Quebec.
 
wtb some local warming
 
3:13 AM
@EtiennedeMartel See, yet another evidence that global warming is complete and utter shit. Wish those stupid lobbyists would get a clue.
Teach the controversy!
 
If humans have so much money & energy, we should just build a bunch of spaceships so we can spread virus humans to other earth like planets.
 
3:36 AM
Since when did they stop fading out downvoted answers?
 
I wonder if I can peer-to-peer in JS
I found this but iunno
 
It's hard to get by same-origin restrictions.
 
This peerjs thing seems fine
 
Same-origin has nothing to do with this
 
3:54 AM
@CatPlusPlus I haven't immediately thought of WebRTC.
 
4:09 AM
@MarkGarcia webrtc isn't p2p
also fuck it's 5 am
 
@orlp It is. Kind of. Browser2Browser.
 
AFAIK it doesn't allow you to initiate connections from clients
 
Uh how would server initiate connection
It just doesn't do signalling by itself
 
Wut. Did they just change the rep icons in your profile?
 
oh my god css changes on SO
itshapening.jpeg.avi
 
4:14 AM
I visit my profile so often
Or anyone's profile
Or anything at so
 
hrm, maybe 300 LOC for a sorting algorithm is too much
I don't know if I can compact it without sacrificing performance though
 
oh no
 
Probably with a mouse
 
@CatPlusPlus You eat mice, right?
 
4:50 AM
@orlp He hunts mice, but he usually just stares at bugs and make cynical comments about them.
 
5:01 AM
 
5:23 AM
3
Q: Undefined behaviour of operators in XOR swap algorithm?

Alexander Alexandrowitsch Klimvoid swap(int* a, int* b) { if (a != b) *a ^= *b ^= *a ^= *b; } As the above *a ^= *b ^= *a ^= *b is just a shortcut for *a = *a ^ (*b = *b ^ (*a = *a ^ *b)), could (e.g.) the 2nd *a be evaluated (for the XOR) just before the 3rd *a is modified (by the =)? Does it matter whether I ...

> *a ^= *b ^= *a ^= *b;
ahahaha
 
5:44 AM
@Mysticial Oh wow, and love the answer's 'fixed' solution.
 
0
Q: Why are so many useless questions ranked highly, and vice versa?

DDSThis is not a rant. I find that more and more new questions consist of useless ponderings of obscure details of languages. Maybe I am not seeing the questions that involve actual issues. That could be because the obscure useless questions tend to gather the most traction. A few recent examples ...

^^ um...
 
Looking at the backlog, no love for MSVC.
Why is that? Since 2010 MSVC seems to be pretty decent...
 

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