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Ell
11:00 AM
I just wanted to say Micro Machines was fun, that is all :P
 
user1804599
Is it possible to configure Git to always merge a specific branch after fetching?
 
1 min ago, by Ell
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, and I was saying racing games are much more fun :P
 
user1804599
I guess it's possible with hooks.
 
shit, my myo scripts are borking my Ctrl key
 
Ell
I didn't mean that :3
 
11:01 AM
@Ell well fuck it would be whole lotta easier if we wrote what we actually mean, wouldn't it?
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Houston, we have a robot! [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz this is true
 
had an order coming on friday from a store so I told them to add a pair of sennheiser hd201, instead of going for sony or philips
considering how impressed I was by their $4 in-ear phones years ago, I doubt I can go wrong with their headphones in this budget
 
Philips makes really good hw in my opinion
Pretty much everything I have from them is of good quality and works really nice over the years
compared to samsung, which I had pretty much only negative experiences with
 
I don't remember owning any samsung hardware, do they also make headphones?
I thought they only made devices and TVs
 
11:07 AM
they make good components, but shitty end-user devices
like, samsung is one of the certified ARM manufacturers
 
@rightføld so, it's a function that takes a collection, some sort of predicate, and calls 'remove' on all those it should remove. Still doesn't feel write to have a collection have logic like that as pqart of it.
 
Ell
Hmm
I wonder if writing a tree with inheritance + visitors is the right way to go
 
I changed foobar with winamp to get some equalizer presets
so I can hide the horrible sound quality of these headphones with lots and lots of bass
 
@TonyTheLion I found a picture of you during your daily hygiene ;)
11
 
@thecoshman Who said anything about remove.
The collection encodes the internal structure and knows how to navigate it and provides a generic interface that is agnostic of that structure. That's all.
 
11:21 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, I agree with that. But I took @rightføld to mean he'd do some 'reduce' thing that would remove elements from a collection based on some logic. That logic shouldn't be part of the collection IMO.
 
Ell
so what should be part of the collection?
 
@FredOverflow that tongue sticking out makes the image.
 
Ell
should find be in the collection?
 
@Ell Did you know that Bjarne hates visitors?
 
Ell
my multimethod implementation isn't polished enough to use yet :P
 
11:24 AM
@Ell no. the logic for what elements you want from a collection are not part of that collections logic. Keep in mind, having a 'find' function that takes a lambda (or something else) that can be used to determine what elements you want is fine. After all, the collection probably knows the best way to copy the elements that match the predicate.
 
@FredOverflow FFS, not the movie phrasing :(
Though I guess the right thing would not make much sense for this purpose.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Replace it with something better or shut down!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ?
 
Oct 24 at 10:01, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Jim said "Houston, we've had a problem."
 
So why did the movie screw it up?
 
11:27 AM
Dunno.
They took lots of dialog verbatim from the actual mission, but not that bit.
 
user1804599
> In addition, a reducing fn may be called with no args, and should then return an identity value for its operation.
 
user1804599
hmmmm
 
is there any way to get rid of the ::type after Bind1? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/c8904acabd2a789a
 
@nightcracker add a Bind1_t alias
 
@Abyx what do you mean?
 
11:29 AM
template<...> using Bind1_t = typename Bind1<...>::type;
 
It's not a type.
 
that doesn't work
 
it works for std lib in C++14
 
can you give me something on coliru that compiles?
 
no
but you can read about std::enable_if_t and friends
 
11:32 AM
@Abyx No, it does not.
@Abyx No. You can read the actual code he posted.
 
type is not a type.
 
@Abyx std::enable_if<...>::type is a type
@Abyx Bind1<...>::type is a template
 
well I don't give a fuck then
hth
 
?
that's rude
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you know of any way (outside of a macro), or do you think it's impossible
 
11:34 AM
No, you're really screwed.
Don't forget that you'll need ::template in generic code using it, too.
 
hmm
do you think a macro is appropriate here?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes had, or well, that's fine then, carry on.
 
I think the best we can do is what the MPL does.
 
I'm unfamiliar with the MPL
 
I haven't used it much, but they have some roundabout way of going about this.
Wait. I wasn't late for work by one hour.
FFS.
It's Wednesday. How the hell am I still being confused by DST :|
 
user1804599
11:43 AM
@TonyTheLion dat Force
 
morning
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Your clocks don't update automatically?
 
user1804599
12:06 PM
Hmm.
 
user1804599
Writer monad seems useful for implementing validation.
 
12:25 PM
@Mgetz not really
botters only got a 3 month suspension
got to keep all their gold and cards
so unfair
 
@Mgetz Bots in a card game? Are there money involved?
 
this might be an astoundingly dumb question, but if an even number can be written as 2k, if a rational number can be written as m/n, is there a way to write an irrational number the same way? Am I thinking of this wrong?
 
Ell
@corvid you can't be definition
an irrational number can't be represented as m/n
 
@VáclavZeman You buy cards in hearthstone using real money or grinding a lot of games - the bots autogrind the cards for you
 
@nightcracker Ah. I see. So it is something like bots in Ultima Online grinding a location by killing everything in sight...
 
12:42 PM
@Ell so if you have to prove a number is irrational, you always have to do it by contradiction?
 
user1804599
(def ls
  (reify Object
    (toString [this] (println (string/join "\n" (keys (ns-publics 'user)))))))
 
user1804599
Now I can type ls instead of (ls) in the REPL!
 
Xeo
> error C2621: member 'a' of union 'stuff' has copy constructor
error C2621: member 'b' of union 'stuff' has copy constructor
k, I seem to have forgotten how unions work.
 
Ell
@corvid I don't think so
 
Xeo
can haz Boost.Variant T_T
 
12:46 PM
on stackoverflow, is there a proper etiquette to ask a conceptual question which might be opinion based?
 
Ell
@corvid don't bother
it'll get closed
 
1:00 PM
buh, how does one show an arbitrary number is composite? I imagine it would have to be x*y where x != 1 and y != 1
 
Ell
what does composite mean?
 
not prime
 
Ell
oh
I don't know :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you think this can be simplified any further? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/c8693f00c0b4470c
 
1:16 PM
is it legal to pass non-PODs to variadic functions?
(I mean C-style, taking ellipses, not variadic templates)
 
Xeo
needs trivial copy, IIRC
 
works in java nvm
 
1:19 PM
I can't find where this is specified in the standard
is it perhaps in the C standard?
 
@Xeo but what about dtor?
 
Xeo
Well well well... what an un-fun company meeting...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes vOv fairly sure what ever it was you linked to, I hadn't read :P
 
@AndyProwl what do you need variadic functions for?
 
@nightcracker I don't need them. We have them in our codebase and I am listing all the reasons why we should deprecate them and propose an alternative design.
 
1:23 PM
fair enough
 
user1804599
What did I expect when I did :e %.
 
@AndyProwl No.
C doesn't have non-PODs
 
user1804599
TIL void is POD.
 
False dichotomy.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The only thing I found in the C++ Standard is 5.2.2/7, which says:
> After these conversions, if the argument does not have arithmetic, enumeration, pointer, pointer to member, or class type, the program is ill-formed
It says "class type", but does not mention PODs, trivially-copyable, or anything else
oh wait
I'm so dumb
 
Xeo
1:37 PM
That says "ill-formed" - not being trivially-copyable is "UB"
 
it's like, the sentence after that
it's not UB though
implementation-defined
 
Xeo
oh, k
 
> Passing a potentially-evaluated argument of class type (Clause 9) having a nontrivial copy constructor, a non-trivial move constructor, or a non-trivial destructor, with no corresponding parameter, is conditionally-supported with implementation-defined semantics.
 
it's conditional as well
so your compiler might still say fuck you
 
Well, implementation defined can still be: crash.
 
Xeo
1:50 PM
Wtf, the libstdc++ that is shipped with GCC 4.9 doesn't have aligned_union? :(
 
That's been missing for quite a while.
> An American jihad would embrace the correct belief that if every nation on earth were governed by freely elected leaders and by our Constitution, the world would be a far better place. And an American jihad would not only hope for this outcome, but work toward it.
 
user1804599
Werkzeug's debugger is so good.
 
user1804599
What do you call a function \j f g x = f x `j` g x?
 
Split.
No, wait.
What?
 
combine?
 
Ell
2:05 PM
what does \j mean?
 
It's uncurry j . split f g
No need to name it.
Split is "fanout"? in the arrow module, I guess.
 
Xeo
&&&
 
ah yes, the super-logical and operator
it will automatically do what you want
 
Xeo
f &&& g >>> uncurry j
 
user1804599
Ah yeah, &&& is nice.
 
Ell
2:12 PM
f aaaaaaaannnnd g should be taken out of curry j
 
user1804599
user=> (defn &&& [& fs]
  #_=>   (fn [& xs] (vec (map #(apply % xs) fs))))
#'user/&&&
user=> ((&&& + *) 1 2)
[3 2]
 
user1804599
:3
 
Xeo
@rightføld nonono, that's bad.
 
That's... not &&&.
 
2:15 PM
TIL a yemen female is only 0.5145 that of a male
 
user1804599
@Xeo :(
 
"If women really get paid 20% less for the same work, wouldn't a shareholder conscious company just hire only women?"
 
By that same logic a shareholder conscious company would hire no one, as it's 100% less.
 
@nightcracker Er, no, that's not the same logic.
 
err im retarded
nvm
 
2:25 PM
// If we have a global timeline, and only two keys (one at the start and one at the end) and they both have the same value, then we're allowed to skip the track
This comment is right underneath a huge if.
I feel like it's gonna be a life saver later on.
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol Nicaragua & Rwanda
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nah, women are clearly incompetent.
 
Clearly.
 
@CatPlusPlus pooter game?
 
2:32 PM
A what
 
Ell
can I go from ±x = 4 to x = ±4 ?
 
Xeo
Hm, today's meeting tells me one thing: I might need to go and polish up my CV, as a preparation for the worst-case scenario. :<
 
Ell
@Xeo oh dear :/
 
Xeo
@Ell In what would does +-x = 4 even make sense!
 
@thecoshman most of them are, in certain fields.
 
user1804599
2:39 PM
x ±= 4 :D
 
Ell
@Xeo good point
 
user1804599
Did you mean x ≈ 4?
 
Ell
x^2 = 4^2
nevermind. hm
 
±x = 4 means that X is a module of something
In abstract algebra, the concept of a module over a ring is a generalization of the notion of vector space over a field, wherein the corresponding scalars are the elements of an arbitrary ring. Modules also generalize the notion of abelian groups, which are modules over the ring of integers. Thus, a module, like a vector space, is an additive abelian group; a product is defined between elements of the ring and elements of the module that is distributive over both parameters and is compatible with the ring multiplication. Modules are very closely related to the representation theory of groups. They...
 
@Abyx and most men are too, in certain fields.
 
@thecoshman exactly
 
Ell
^I need some +- somewhere
 
@Ell x= ±4 means that X can be 4 or -4
 
Ell
@RobsonFilhoColodeti yeah
 
@Abyx you need to be careful with what you say, you come across most of the time like an amaizingly self centred twat
 
Ell
2:45 PM
@thecoshman I that doesn't sound self centred at all :P
 
@Ell Squaring yields |5xe^2| not 5xe^2
 
@thecoshman oh my, do I really look like Lightness?
 
@Ell and that is mathematically different than saying that ±x = 4
 
@Abyx imo, worse.
 
Bad word
Square rooting
 
2:45 PM
well I'm not that amazing I guess
 
Whatever
You know what I mean
 
@Ell 4 is a constant while X is a variable
 
> Last updated Jan 1, 2003.

On Monday, July 13th 2009 (...)
@RobsonFilhoColodeti I think you didn't read the page you linked to.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol, you are totally right, i confused the english word =) it actually is Modulus not module en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_value
 
Ell
but ±sqrt(x^2) = ±x doesn't it?
 
3:00 PM
Guys
 
and gals
 
and trans
 
and cis
 
I have very bad liver parameters.
Blood test shows.
 
what does that mean
 
3:01 PM
sucks to be you then.
 
Dunno, I just got the report.
 
Ell
@Jefffrey ah boy :/
I'm sorry to hear
 
sqrt(x^2) = |x|
 
Ell
sqrt(x^2) = x
-sqrt(x^2) = -x
±sqrt(x^2) = ±x
^this is how I was taught
 
nice link cat
 
so to prove a number is composite, you simply prove that it can be the product of two numbers that are not 1?
 
Ell
sqrt(x) means positive square root of x but that's not the same as |x| I don't think. or maybe it is
 
god for real numbers whatever
@Ell (-x)^2 and x^2 yield the same thing, so sqrt(x^2) has two answers
 
Ell
3:06 PM
@CatPlusPlus I don't think so
sqrt means positive square root
 
You don't think so what
Beh I woke up too late again
I don't feel like doing anything
 
poor cat
 
@CatPlusPlus You are totally a cat.
 
@VáclavZeman false. his profile states he's actually a goat
 
can (2(n+1))! be simplified to (2n)! + (2)! ?
 
3:11 PM
start from (2(n+1))! and try to get to (2n!) + 2!?
write some test cases for it?
prove via mathematical induction that for any case they're equivalent?
 
@corvid Just checking for n=1 would give you the answer.
 
is 4! the same as 2! + 2!? of course not
 
@Ell cat plus plus is right
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you know this reminds me of that time in the statistics class when the assistant gave a problem
and I started searching for a general formula for that thing
while the assistant was like "uh, a coder would just write a program to calculate and see what happens"
 
3:13 PM
proving something is not is almost always easier
because you can use a counterexample
it's so useful people even use proof by contradiction
 
I'd argue that a proof by contradiction is closer to what I intended to do than to your trivial counterexample
 
what? any counterexample of something is a proof by contradiction
 
Ell
@RobsonFilhoColodeti We agree I think
sqrt(x^2) has one solution, |x|
|x| has two solutions, -x and +x
 
Let's assume (2(n+1))! can be simplified to (2n)! + (2)!. This would mean that 4! = 24 can be simplified to 2! + 2! = 4. This is a contradiction, thus (2(n+1))! can NOT be simplified to (2n)! + (2)!.
@AlexM. I'd argue it's not.
 
that's just a counterexample with cruft
 
3:18 PM
who cares?
it's still a proof by contradiction
 
@Ell lol... if sqrt(x^2) = |x| and |x| = +-x, then sqrt(x^2)=+-x....
 
@AlexM. lolwut
 
> In logic, proof by contradiction is a form of proof, and more specifically a form of indirect proof, that establishes the truth or validity of a proposition by showing that the proposition's being false would imply a contradiction.
are you sure a single counterexample fits in this?
 
of course
 
3:20 PM
ok then, it's a proof by contradiction
 
Ell
@RobsonFilhoColodeti |x| doesn't equal +-x
 
shouldn't this chat be about c++?
 
Ell
I'm confused
 
hell in the most basic logic theory theorems there only is proof by contradiction
 
@RobsonFilhoColodeti yes but sometimes you get bored..
 
3:21 PM
ahahhaha
 
Xeo
Man, morale here is so low right now, it wrapped around and we're all joking together.
What a shitty situation
 
@Ell i'm trolling you =) |x| != +-x
 
Ell
@RobsonFilhoColodeti phew :P
 
@Xeo where's here?
 
3:22 PM
@Ell or maybe not? I don't know anymore if i'm joking you or my mind is joking me...
 
Ell
I'm just gonna forget the conversation, my way of doing it was working fine :P
 
@Xeo ooh
 
@AlexM. The formal expression would go as follows: to show ∀x p(x) does not hold, you negate it: ¬(∀x p(x)), which is equivalent to ∃x ¬p(x). Then you prove that existential quantification by giving an example. Just showing the counterexample is merely skipping the preceding formal steps
 
@Ell now seriously, you question was about if you can get from +-x=4 to x=+-4. so i guess you can't
 
Ell
yeah
 
3:24 PM
@Xeo is it a meeting like a performance review or something?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes even more basic, in propositional logic you assume something, derive a contradiction thus get the negation of your assumption
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that makes sense now, I got it
 
Xeo
@AlexM. Company-wide meeting
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes (p → q) ∧ (p → ¬q) → ¬p
 
Xeo
With... some rather "triple-plus ungood" announcements, as @Puppy would say
 
3:32 PM
that sucks :(
 
Xeo
We basically lost 1/3rd of our crew here, which isn't much, as we're a small company, but the morale went through the floor with that.
 
@Xeo how that happened? is that an IT Company?
 
I'm sure you'll be fine in any case
I don't see you hunting for jobs for too long
 
3:36 PM
yea, someone with @Xeo's skillset should have no problem
 
@Xeo Oh wow.
 
Xeo
We lost the non-programmers. "Restructuring", as the chefs reluctantly called it.
 
@Xeo This would seem to indicate that it's a good thing you didn't take out a loan to help out your parents, anyway. I would agree with the general sentiment though: given your skill level, it seems pretty likely that if necessary you'll be able to find a new job pretty quickly. My own experience has been that more often than not, things like this end up being an improvement, though they often seem pretty scary when they're happening.
 
Xeo
@AlexM. Oh, I don't see a problem either. My biggest fear, in case I do leave this company in the near future, is the fact that I specifically moved here, and a buddy of mine is now moving into the flat below mine. And I don't really know any other companies around here.
 
@Xeo we, IT ppl, can work anywhere in the world, just google your job position and GG
 
Xeo
3:41 PM
basically, in the case that I do switch jobs, I'll also likely switch my residence :<
 
I'm not an IT ppl
 
Xeo
Which I don't particularly want
@RobsonFilhoColodeti Video game company
 
I wouldn't be able to work remotely even if I asked, I think
so much of my work relies on resources that are only available on the company's intranet
 
VPNs exist
 
which I can't access from home
 
3:43 PM
Accessing internal network from outside is a solved problem
 
Xeo
^
 
I don't know how that works :(
 
@Xeo yeah, video games companies look like harsh place to work, anyway your videgame development skills can be used on movies, simulators, medical applications and much more
 
I'll ask hardware out of curiosity
 
Xeo
Your home becomes part of the intranet, basically
 
3:43 PM
"can I access my email from home?"
and see what they say
@Xeo ah
if you put it like that I can see how that can happen
hmm
 
bleh... a client wants me to email them the code so they can check it into their repo
 
a colleague uses teamviewer from time to time to work from home
but I can see how that can get laggy and stuff
or worse, if the connection drops
 
@Xeo Though it's a little hard (at least for me) to imagine how they can hope to produce much in the way of games with only programmers (no artists and such?)
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Just working as the developer for publishers, basically. We do the coding, the publisher supplies the other stuff
Well, we still have a few artists left, though
3, I think
out of 8 or so
and one of them is one of the chefs, so yeah
 
@AlexM. For programming, you usually want your tools and a Git/Hg repo installed locally, so working with the office mostly consists of pushing/pulling when needed.
@Xeo Oh, okay. That starts to sound a lot more reasonable then.
 
Xeo
3:48 PM
The worst part about working remotely is the fact that you can't talk to people as well as if you're both in the same place.
 
I'm better at typing than talking
 
Xeo
I find talking with people directly a lot more productive
 
Ell
Me too
 
@Xeo Yeah--you pretty quickly start to realize the value of those seemingly semi-useless conversations you have when you just run into somebody in the hallway, overhear somebody else's conversation, etc.
 
sad sad sad: error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
 
3:51 PM
@Xeo So that one cooks?
 
Xeo
@RobsonFilhoColodeti Our designers and QA peeps are currently fighting with "error JOB2015: unresolved external income"
 
@JerryCoffin that's fairly simple, I only have to sync with the svn repo I use anyway
 
@Xeo wow, that's bad. then the company should have closed months ago to be able to pay the contract resolutions
 
Hmm... a new sorting algorithm: the BullySort
 
Xeo
3:52 PM
@RobsonFilhoColodeti eh?
 
I still need access to the whole thing though, because I need to support the library I maintain, and this means I have to respond to emails, use random tools others use, see what's what and so on
 
Working remotely most of the time, I quite like it
 
Are you saying they should have fired everyone, and that they should have done it months ago?
Why the fuck?
 
@Xeo is that a c++ problem or an ironic way to say that your QA peeps are have not been paid?
 
They were fired.
 
3:53 PM
I can login to PayPal but not on the product checkout page what???
 
Xeo
@RobsonFilhoColodeti The hint is in the error "name"
 
Of course they're not being paid after that.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd prefer "laid off" - "fired" sounds kinda harsh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's the correct thing to do, if you are a manager, and you see that your company is not getting a good income to support your employees then you have to close the company!
 
Or... save it.
 
Xeo
3:55 PM
welp, time to go home...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes save it at the cost of the employees not getting paid?
 
FFS, they were fired.
 
Xeo
@RobsonFilhoColodeti Who said people weren't being paid?
 
@RobsonFilhoColodeti Also important: if you close down no one gets paid anymore.
 
Xeo
Man, I can't even wish those guys "schoenen Feierabend" now :<
 
3:57 PM
@Xeo I'm in Italy right now, we're getting a lot of that. And sometimes we also throw some swearing because of it (too many to be handled correctly)
 
> schoenen
lol
means "shoes" in Dutch
 
Xeo
"schönen"
 
I know
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but they get to look for another job
 
@Xeo Wish them "Viel Spaß" instead :P
 
Xeo
3:58 PM
I'm afraid of getting stoned.
 
@RobsonFilhoColodeti So, sending everyone to look for another job is better than sending only some?
"Oh shit, we can't afford that new hire from three months ago, ABANDON SHIP EVERYONE'S FIRED"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes surely not! maybe i couldn't make my point or you didn't understand XD
 

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