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Ell
4:01 PM
does it make sense to set non linear/set-like "milestones" for a project?
 
@Ell example?
 
You need the gif.
 
Ell
@RobsonFilhoColodeti I guess just a load of things to try out
well
hmm
ignore me, I can't formulate sentences atm :p
 
@Ell i guess that any documentation is better than no documentation, so if the other option is to not create milestones then do the "non linear/set-like" milestones
 
why do people use the format auto f() -> manually_written_return_type instead of manually_written_return_type f()?
 
Ell
4:06 PM
I'm thinking milestones for moving the project along
@nightcracker it's natural for return type to follow argument type some say
also sometimes it's necessary
 
when is it necessary?
 
@nightcracker example?XD
 
scipy is so frustrating to install on ubuntu
 
@RobsonFilhoColodeti an example would help, yes
 
4:08 PM
Everything is frustrating to install on Ubuntu
 
Where is it?
 
indeed. I just want to manipulate images :|
 
May 19 at 11:57, by Xeo
Sound the GIF alarm, evacuate the Lounge!
 
4:11 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes eureka?
 
The GIF has worked its magic again
 
ahahahahahahha thanks!
 
Cat's best creation.
 
Could use better flashing
 
Ell
4:16 PM
ugh premake
Ooh wait
int
main(
  int argc,
  char **argv)
{
man this style is gross
 
ugh
 
Oh hey I did make it far more blinky
Browsers are just terrible at GIFs
 
@Ell you can't write that here, you'll get banned
 
Ell
Do you guys use #pragma once? I keep flitting between it and include guards
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes by merit of being his only good one.
@CatPlusPlus not as bad as peoples pronunciation of the word
 
4:26 PM
@Ell include guards FTW
 
Typically, I use #pragma more than once.
Cat's flashing should be illegal - it hurts my eyes.
 
It think its purpose is to hurt eyes
so that the OP who is supposed to see it, sees it
and never forgets
 
true, i will never forget
 
4:41 PM
:)
 
4:53 PM
will we see template constexpr declarations in the standard library like template<class T> constexpr bool is_integral_v = is_integral<T>::value similar to enable_if_t and co introduced in C++14?
 
ERROR_ABANDONED_WAIT_0
ERROR_ABANDONED_WAIT_63
WTF Windows.
 
WaitForMultipleObjects
 
What?
I got this from GetQueuedCompletionStatus.
(The _0 variant)
 
I mean that's the primary use case
WAIT_0 is used for general 'wait abandoned' and multiple objects variants utilise more
 
Oh. So the docs just omit all the others?
 
5:01 PM
If the function only takes one handle then it will only ever return _0
They could probably supply non-numbered alias but vOv
 
hey guys what's the fastest time you can type:
{enter}yes{enter}{enter}no{enter}
?
(in milliseconds please) I ask because I am slow and I know there are much faster people on keyboards than me
(Anti Chat Spam)
 
1.58e-4 microcenturies
Chat antiflood is shit
 
0,008295 s is really fast
that's 8,3 ms
which isn't human..
 
well
he's a cat
so duh
 
ok just looked it up, the fastest guys can get 702 KPM
so 84 ms / keyhit
which means if I set a delay of 84*3 ms it still only for humans
 
5:12 PM
please
that's as pseudoscience as it gets
what makes you think that the maximum average sustained typing speed being 702 KPM says anything about how fast a human can possibly type {enter}yes{enter}{enter}no{enter} ?
 
the average human is me and takes more time to type it XD
waaay more
 
...
totally irrelevant
 
but if you have suggestions on how to prevent chat flooding by a certain person just tip me :P
 
you just pulled a number out of your ass that seemed relevant, did some division on it that you think makes sense and conclude your calculation was correct based on anecdotal evidence of sample size = 1
 
already 50 samples?
 
5:16 PM
that's the sample size of your original number, which is not the point
that maximum sustained typing speed is totally irrelevant to the speed someone can type {enter}yes{enter}{enter}no{enter}
 
Ell
I wonder if it's possible to have synchronised physics with different time steps
 
I can type the word "what" almost instantly, way faster than my sustained typing speed over sentences
 
I know that, I have no fast typers to measure so instead I just resort to "just one shitty calculation"+sanity. 250 ms between each message is sane. who is going to type away more than 4 messages/second anyway?
 
@Gizmo what I'm trying to point out is that your shitty calculation is so shitty that you're better off not even doing it in the first place to not generate a false sense of confidence in the totally arbitrary result
@ell define "synchronized"
@Ell if you mean getting the exact same result (even ignoring errors caused by floating point) then the answer is almost surely no unless you use some very special integrator using very specially curated/filtered inputs, and even then I'm not sure
 
Ell
@nightcracker I guess it would work if you use ratios for quantities instead of floating point
 
5:22 PM
@Ell no, you can ignore floating point and it doesn't help you a damn
 
@Ell What about irrational numbers?
 
Ell
I was going to say reals first time
 
@Ell the main problem is that your integrator is not continuous - the timestep is what passes samples to your integrator
 
Ell
The integrator isn't continuous?
 
@Ell you're asking for an integrator that is oblivious to it's samplerate - this is impossible
of course not
it's sample rate is the timestep
 
Ell
5:23 PM
Wait I'm confused
let me do some math :P
 
if your integrator was continuous you'd need to call it an infinite amount of times
with an infinitely small timestep
 
ubuntu officially removes amazon search results in a future update
 
ubuttnu
 
or so the news say
 
@AlexM. Impressive.
 
Ell
5:26 PM
@nightcracker oh
Hm
 
you see now?
 
Ell
Sort of
but I'm a little confused
 
see it like this
 
Ell
the integrator is there to integrate variable over time, right?
 
you have one physics engine running at timestep A
another at timestep B
and you want them to produce the same result
but since A and B are not defined you want ALL engines running at arbitrary timestep to produce the same result
 
5:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes what are those absence penalties you added? what rule says we need to track such things, or that failing to vote has any consequence besides defaulting to no?
 
and clearly an engine with timestep of 1 ms won't give the same accurate results as one running at 1 minute
as you increase the sample rate the accuracy goes up, this can only mean that the results can't stay the same
 
Ell
Right
 
Oh ffs, once again I get something vetoed due to lack of reading comprehension.
 
are you guys playing that one game where there are no rules except changing the rules?
 
There are rules
 
Ell
5:31 PM
Meh. hmm
 
Nomic is a game created in 1982 by philosopher Peter Suber in which the rules of the game include mechanisms for the players to change those rules, usually beginning through a system of democratic voting. Nomic is a game in which changing the rules is a move. In that respect it differs from almost every other game. The primary activity of Nomic is proposing changes in the rules, debating the wisdom of changing them in that way, voting on the changes, deciding what can and cannot be done afterwards, and doing it. Even this core of the game, of course, can be changed. Nomic actually refers to a...
 
Tragedy, my sauce fell to the floor and I didn't get to it eat it :(((((
 
:O :(
that feels so bad
cooking food and then just dropping it :(
 
Fuck you gravity
 
indeed
sue gravity
 
5:33 PM
I ordered it but still
 
Ell
@nightcracker integrating from t=0 to t=10 should be equal to the sum of the integrals from t=0 to t=5 and t=5 to t=10 though shouldn't it?
 
@Ell remember how integrals are defined in school?
@Ell using limits?
@Ell a timestep is NOT a limit
@Ell a limit would be an infinitely small timestep
 
Ell
@nightcracker derivatives are defined as limits :3
integrals are anti derivatives
 
Therefore they're defined as antilimits
 
anticats
 
5:34 PM
@thecoshman Nothing says we need to keep track of anything at all.
 
Ell
I think I'm confused about what a time step is
 
@Ell a timestep is the sample rate of your universe
 
Ell
when you do engine.step(0.1) to advance the engine by 0.1 seconds, the integrator integrates from t=0 to t=0.1
 
Ell
then next time you do it it integrates from t=0.1 to t=0.2
@nightcracker oh :P
 
5:35 PM
Numerical stuff is something different :v
 
it's called an integrator
because it models it
 
Ell
it doesn't actually integrate?
 
it would integrate if you called it with t = 1/inf
anything larger and it's an approximation
 
Ell
so what does it do if not integrate?
 
that depends on your integrator ;)
 
Ell
5:37 PM
haha okay :L
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes we need to know what players scores are, but you are preemptively tracking these 'penalties', something that has no relation to the game.
 
Xeo
yay, home
 
@thecoshman I'm not preemptively anything.
 
the simplest integrator, the euler integrator simply multiplies the current derivative with the time
 
That they are meaningless is irrelevant.
 
5:38 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes then why track it?
 
@thecoshman Because they exist.
It's post hoc, not preemptive.
 
@Ell as time goes down to zero this becomes the integral of the derivative, AKA the thing your interested in (say position)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes from what?
 
@thecoshman From the last rule that was voted in.
 
From 307
 
5:39 PM
Reading comprehension seems indeed a strong problem.
 
Ell
If the integrator actually did integrated then you could use any time step though right?
 
> Any eligible voter that does not express a vote within the voting period is considered to have participated in the vote by voting against the proposal, and shall receive a medium absence penalty.
 
Ell
Or have I just missed it completely?
 
@Ell no, then there is no concept of a timestep
 
Xeo
so. what should I do now
 
5:39 PM
@Ell remember that you had to approximate the integral using boxes in school?
 
Ell
Yah
 
@Ell and as you chose less wide boxes your approximation became more accurate?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes rules aren't applied retro-actively though
 
Ell
Yes
 
@Ell well, your timestep is the width of your box
 
Ell
5:40 PM
right okay
 
@thecoshman Nothing was applied retroactively.
 
307 has been voted in 3 weeks ago
 
@CatPlusPlus oh, fine point :S
 
@Ell you can also see why using two boxes over 0,10 does not give the same result as using three boxes?
 
Ell
yeah I can see that
 
5:41 PM
@Ell well, there are various techniques for using the boxes (highest, lowest, average, etc) which you also explored?
 
Ell
I only used the trapezium method but yeah
and these are the different "integrators" ?
 
@Ell however, all of those approximated the limit as the box width neared 0
 
kay who's familiar with sobel operator?
 
Ell
yeah
 
so you can use different techniques with different errors
but when the width nears infinitely small they all work
 
5:42 PM
I like how we voted in a rule, then failed to apply it (right away) :P
 
Ell
But, if we did do actual integration, we could still sample variables at different times
 
@thecoshman Which one?
 
@Ell unless you sampled it infinitely often your results would differ
@Ell just like the two boxes and three boxes give a different result
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 307, voted in, then not applied for a while :P
 
Totally applied always.
 
5:44 PM
 
Ell
@nightcracker but why? if we're doing actual integration, the results should be the same?
 
Missing bookkeeping is not not applying the rule
 
@Ell you're not
 
Ell
@nightcracker No I'm saying, let's do actual integration
 
5:44 PM
@Ell only if you did it with an infinitely small box you'd do actual integration
 
That I neglected my self-imposed secretarial duties for a while doesn't change anything. As I said above, nothing needs to be tracked at all. The logs are not normative.
 
Ell
@nightcracker I mean do integration without algebraically or w/e
 
you should read that entire blog if you're interested in this btw
 
TIL about OpenCola
OpenCola is a brand of open-source cola, where the instructions for making it are freely available and modifiable. Anybody can make the drink, and anyone can modify and improve on the recipe. The original version 1.0 was released on 27 January 2001. Current Version is 1.1.3. Although originally intended as a promotional tool to explain free and open source software, the drink took on a life of its own and 150,000 cans were sold. The Toronto-based company Opencola founded by Grad Conn, Cory Doctorow, and John Henson became better known for the drink than the software it was supposed to promote....
and... open-source beverages actually
 
5:47 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes @CatPlusPlus no I totally get applying this rule, I just find it funny how we forgot about it.
 
Nobody forgot anything
 
I forgot to track the penalties. That's all.
 
@AlexM. related topics - free beer
 
yeah, I forgot about those penalties too.
 
They were mentioned at every closing.
 
5:48 PM
hence my being confused why you suddenly started to record them like that.
 
We also don't react exactly when deadlines expire, but that doesn't mean they don't
 
@CatPlusPlus clearly you're not a physicist
@CatPlusPlus if you can't see inside a black hole that means its contents don't exist :P
or weird things like that
 
@CatPlusPlus I didn't say they didn't, I just forgot that we had the rule that said penalties are applied for for failing to vote.
 
A light cone is the path that a flash of light, emanating from a single event (localized to a single point in space and a single moment in time) and traveling in all directions, would take through spacetime. If we imagine the light confined to a two-dimensional plane, the light from the flash spreads out in a circle after the event E occurs, and if we graph the growing circle with the vertical axis of the graph representing time, the result is a cone, known as the future light cone. The past light cone behaves like the future light cone in reverse, a circle which contracts in radius at the speed...
 
5:55 PM
lol
Who buys that shit
 
Xeo
That's almost 300eur - not counting shipping and customs...
@CatPlusPlus not enough people, apparently, else it would be cheaper
it's like the "big whale" thing with "free"-to-play titles
there's only a small percentage of people watching a show on TV that also buys the blu-rays, so they're ridiculously expensive
 
If more people bought it at this price then they'd have less incentive to lower it, not more :v
 
no, because mass production
 
I coughed while eating soup
Not a good day for my food
Meh YNAB doesn't have spending per day report
 
Ell
@nightcracker I just don't get it :L
 
6:07 PM
today's fortune cookie isn't encouraging
 
Ell
I'll just read over a couple times
but for example, using the equations of motion twice with t = 5 gives the same result as t =10 once
 
A friend from work gave me this link: the boost cpp libraries. Much better than the official "documentation" ;0 but probably you all know it :v
7
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes o_0 what did you change in my post? the diff shows no change.
or is just another discrap feature?
 
I edited it instead of replying, somehow. Then I edited it back to the original.
 
@Xeo you sure that is not a blue ray?
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh right.
yet it only shows up as one edit
#quality
 
Xeo
6:18 PM
grace period yay
 
It has that ninja-edit feature as in SO, but in SO if your ninja edit just results in the original, it doesn't show as an edit.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oooh
yeah I don't like that 'feature'
well... I sort of see the point, but I think it's abused more than anything.
at least on SO, just seems to encourage people to fire of quick crappy answers, and then edit them to good
 
@thecoshman without it they wouldn't do it? I doubt that - answers get judged by their visible content, rarely someone wants to read the revision history, to verify if it really was good from the start
 
@BartoszKP No worries, you can always find a person that doesn't.
 
:)
 
hrmph. my sobel picture comes out looking like noise :|
 
(Which I first saw in Sean Parent's talk about semantics and concepts-based polymorphism.)
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked nice how you had to name the virtual function with camelcase. :d
 
I tried to hide that :)
Name-lookup rules gettin in my way!
 
user1804599
You could use more indirection to hide it!
 
user1804599
6:27 PM
With an extra non-member function that does the ADL. :p
 
user1804599
ADL is funny.
 
But it's nice that you can move the Item object to a translation unit where the original namespace A or B are no longer visible and it will still work. (Only at construction time they need to be visible.)
 
@BartoszKP well I guess the problem is gone now, but it used to be that older answers were listed first (when points are equal), so in the early stages, just firing of a quick shit answer and then adding more to it can help you get early votes, which helped ensure the other other answers never get a look in.
 
@thecoshman yeah, that was a source of significant imbalance
 
any way, time for brinner.
 
user1804599
6:30 PM
@StackedCrooked This technique is also presented in this talk.
 
user1804599
Though I don't think ADL was mentioned explicitly.
 
Not explicitly, but his example code made use of it (iirc).
 
Ell
@StackedCrooked woah cool
 
Or, maybe, the example code used non-member functions, without mention of adl.
 
user1804599
6:32 PM
@StackedCrooked He used only one namespace (the global one).
 
user1804599
And overloaded for the types.
 
Anyway, it's from his code where I got the idea.
 
@Xeo IKR
I searched for Nyaruko boxsets
I'd rather spend the money on PC hardware
 
user1804599
I realised "artefact" contains parts from "art" and "factory"
 
How fascinating.
 
6:37 PM
it's a fact
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked fascist
 
fascinationist
 
user1804599
artefascist
 
user1804599
Clojure is great.
 
I'd like to use Clojure.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Do it!
 
Ell
^I'm glad that he's accepted evolution
Not sure sure accepting the big bang is such a great thing though
Imho it's much more likely to be proven incorrect. what happens when a new theory comes along?
 
user1804599
He means the big gangbang you get when you go to heaven.
 
@Ell the catholic church has accepted that for a long time
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
6:47 PM
I used this when developing with servlets.
 
user1804599
Could just type r and hit return to restart the web server.
 
user1804599
Instead of (r).
 
user1804599
REPL calls toString on the object to print it. :P
 
user1804599
You can do the same in Python by implementing __repr__. But no nice macro. :(
 
6:58 PM
Data Center Maintenance Sat, Nov 1 2014 - 15:00 UTC (11AM EDT) - 19:00 UTC (3PM EDT)We will be performing... http://tmblr.co/Z7Lcqt1UKKzPv
 
user1804599
@thecoshman R.I.P. Kickstarter.
 

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