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user1804599
10:04 PM
A Haskell programmer and a Darcs user walk into a bar. Just kidding; there's only one of each and they're the same person.
 
user1804599
Hahahahaha.
 
What about regerences?
27
Q: Should we protect web application source code from being stolen by web hosts through obfuscation?

user01Is it worth to obfuscate a java web app source code so that the web host cannot make wrong use of the code & probably even steal your business. If, so how to deal with this or how to obfuscate ? We are just a new start up launching a product in market. How can we protect our product/ web applica...

 
Daisy sleepin' on mah lap
er, no?
 
@DeadMG Dog?
 
Fun fact: owners can read deleted messages.
 
10:13 PM
yep
 
@EtiennedeMartel That what creates the comedic value; if any.
 
It sure makes it much longer for any of us to read what you wrote.
 
I'm trying so hard, but I'm thinking -One day. One day it will be the funniest joke in the ... world.
Fortunately my career is not in comedy.
 
Robot's answer with the giant picture is in the newsletter this week.
 
@not-rightfold So, I take it you simply decided to reset your rep?
 
Xeo
10:21 PM
@Mysticial haha
He'll be pissed
 
@Xeo He's getting a gold badge for it.
 
Xeo
Wow, it's already up at 97
 
hello. "cout" is undefined
 
Xeo
@Mysticial He also got one on the bearded-lambda question. Wasn't too happy I accepted it.
Same goes for this one
 
im using windows visual studios
 
Xeo
10:21 PM
#include <iostream>, use std::cout, now get a good book
 
I have #include <iostream>
 
@Xeo The point remains. Robot has always sucked at sucking. And he will continue to suck at sucking.
 
Ell
Hmm, where is @chemist when you need him. I have a question!
 
what's the question
 
Xeo
Man, they should ban that Vlad from Moscow guy from the Asylum.
He's so fucking dense, you could fuse Hydrogen in him.
2
 
10:24 PM
@LearningC But probably not the namespace.
 
@Xeo Then they should use it as a power source.
 
btw the std fixed the problem
is it because she is using mac?
 
@LearningC Ha, they don't even bother with compiling their code beforehand.
 
Xeo
@LearningC Yeah, they're bad
 
10:25 PM
Huh. What's this about;
0
A: Is there a word for someone with the same name?

Lorenzo GonzalezThe word I'm looking for other than namesake starts with the letter P.

 
so it is not because she use mac
 
@LearningC No. C++ on a Mac is usually compiled either with GCC or Clang, none of which allow that.
 
oh ok. thanks for the help
but wait look at this video
it compile without the std::
at time 19:15
 
That ain't standard compliant, that's for sure.
Oh, wait.
 
Xeo
"genlib.h"
Likely has using namespace std;
 
10:29 PM
My guess is that either genlib.h or simpio.h contain a using namespace std;
 
Xeo
So fuck them.
 
Bad practice anyway.
 
#include "stdafx.h"
#include "genlib.h"
#include "simpio.h"
#include <iostream>
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Oh, "simpio.h" sounds more likely even
 
Me and @Xeo are thinking alike.
 
10:29 PM
i include all
 
yay for bad tutorial vid geek forensics
 
@LearningC Precompiled headers, hmm?
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Hahaha, one of the top comments even has that in.
 
@Xeo Everyone is saying the same thing.
 
10:30 PM
^^ lol, again...
Not suspicious at all...
 
Anyway. That's why I dislike the usual "we hid a bunch of things at first, we'll see them later" approach.
 
Xeo
I like the physics videos from Stanford, but their programming videos apparently suck.
 
@Xeo Fun fact: university level programming courses universally suck.
 
Xeo
:)
 
@Mysticial hmm?
 
10:32 PM
so you guys say i should learn from these videos?
 
Xeo
no
Video tutorials on programming have an extremely high chance of suckage
 
@LearningC never learn from videos
 
books are boring to read
 
Xeo
Then learn by reading SO
 
boaring eh?
 
10:33 PM
what is boaring?
 
Xeo
Also, if books and reading are boring, programming might not be something for you.
 
@LearningC Oh dear.
 
@LearningC Good luck.
 
nah i love programming
 
@LearningC Really.
 
10:34 PM
Im not a fan of reading. Notice how i spelled boring wrong..
 
Xeo
If you want others to enjoy your code, better start reading.
 
Heart of the Swarm campaign is pretty good.
 
@StackedCrooked I found it a bit rushed.
 
Xeo
Anyways, time to head to bed and learn a bit more Japanese before sleeping.
 
I've only complete 3 missions yet.
 
10:35 PM
@StackedCrooked Wait until you get to the end and you're like "Eh".
Well, maybe not "eh" because that's a Canadian thing, but anyway.
 
STL's videos are awesome - channel9.msdn.com/Series/…
 
I know a good portion of C. Should I learn c++ to write a program or just stick with c?
 
they're not tutorial videos for beginners.
 
@LearningC If you learn C++, try to forget everything you've learned about C.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz He has a beginner series.
But for the stdlib, not C++
 
10:36 PM
Really? They seem similar
 
Xeo
@LearningC And that's where the similarities end.
The looks.
 
I think the only new part is the object
 
Xeo
No
Stop
> You can perform this action again in 4 seconds
Fuck you chat.
 
@EtiennedeMartel You mean like: "Eh is it over already?"
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked That's what she said.
 
10:37 PM
lol!
 
@StackedCrooked More like "Eh, I am strangely neutral"
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel That's what the Hydrogen atom said.
 
@LearningC Most bad C++ programmers think that.
Do you want to be a bad C++ programmer?
@Xeo Him.
 
Ell
What was that vodka drink @martin swears by?
 
10:38 PM
i guess not
 
With a capital H.
 
>can't find subbed anime
>can't find it raw either
 
so c++ will make development much better than C?
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel "That's what H said", eh?
 
@Xeo That was unintentional
 
Xeo
10:39 PM
Oh :(
hmm
Helium should be neutral to the outside too, right?
 
the problem is book don't have good exercies
 
Xeo
"That's what He said."
@LearningC Good books do
 
@Xeo Yeah, hydrogen is pretty far from neutral.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Is it?
 
what..
it a stable element
 
Xeo
10:40 PM
one electron, one proton, 1 or more neutrons.
 
noble gas
 
Lately games are more like half-movie.
 
fass ><
 
@Xeo electron, rather than election?
 
10:41 PM
Fass? The fuck does that mean?
 
@StackedCrooked use popcorn
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, you've noticed the decline in video games.
 
@DeadMG Reminds me.
 
what is a fass?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG I have no idea how that happened.
GRAH CHAT STOP LIMITING ME
 
10:41 PM
@LearningC floating-point ass instruction?
 
@LearningC ... what. Get out
 
lol
 
@Rapptz I don't mind if it's well done.
 
Xeo
@LearningC A barrel.
 
@sehe Is chips ok?
 
10:41 PM
Fun fact about Stephen Harper, Canadian Prime Minister: when he speaks French, he cannot say "élection". He always says "érection". No points if you guess what those words mean in English.
 
@Xeo NEIN
 
Xeo
DOCH
 
@StackedCrooked It was. It's finished now. I feel guilty
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah but you get sick of it when everyone does it.
 
@Xeo :)
 
10:42 PM
@sehe Ah well, at least I won't get greasy hands now.
 
That's really telling
 
is it?
 
I was looking at "c++ prime" book and it has 1000+ pages...
is that a good book?
 
Xeo
As I said, get a good book
 
user1804599
@LearningC 1000 isn't prime. 1009 is, though.
 
Xeo
10:44 PM
Go through the list and look
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
user1804599
Tail-call optimization is really necessary in Gear but I have no idea how to do it.
 
user1804599
Stupid JavaScript you piece of shit y u no goto.
 
Xeo
@not-rightfold for-loop it
 
@Ell Hi
 
user1804599
10:48 PM
@Xeo heh good idea.
 
user1804599
Thanks. :v
 
Xeo
... isn't that how TCO is normally implemented?
 
no.
 
Xeo
That was always my impression.
 
you need a while loop, not a for loop.
 
user1804599
10:49 PM
I thought it was implemented using some stack stuff and then goto begin_of_function;.
 
Xeo
Right, whatever loop
 
but yes, it's a loop.
you have to be pretty careful about references, though, they can screw up TCO.
 
Xeo
I think Gear is fully GC'd and all-references. Atleast it seems like it would.
 
user1804599
It is.
 
Ell
Hi.
 
10:50 PM
yeah
 
Ell
could vodka cause calcium and magnesium and other hard water shit to precipitate out of tap water?
 
it's just something you have to be aware of, not necessarily a huge issue.
 
@not-rightfold, so what not-happened to you?
 
Ell
Or is it soft water. The one with most minerals.
 
Hmm
Do you guys have a cool looking text smiley thingy?
 
user1804599
10:52 PM
It seems difficult.
 
it's really not that hard.
just slap a while loop around the function body, and replace a detected tail call with re-assigning the arguments and continue.
 
user1804599
Ah, right.
 
yes
Vodka can cause salts to percipitate
 
but be careful when it comes to re-assigning the arguments- make sure you use a temporary variable.
 
as well as proteins
 
10:53 PM
else hilarity could ensue.
and by hilarity I mean you breaking TCOed functions.
and why are you not letting the JavaScript optimizer handle this?
 
do you guys get annoyed with noob posting questions here?
 
You'd probably have to add a shot to like a teaspoon of really hard water
 
Ell
I was drinking vodka with ice and juice yesterday and there was a sludgy white precipitate at the bottom of the glass
 
Yeah
Probably calcium sulfate or sodium sulfate
mg, calcium, sulfates, phosphates, tend to be very insoluble salts. Not very soluble in H2O, even less so in vodka
 
Did zoid deleted his rightfold account for good?
 
Ell
10:57 PM
Ah right, thank you :)
I wonder if I could use them for anything o.O
 
pretty fuckin' unlikely
 
user1804599
@DeadMG There's no JavaScript implementation that I am aware of that does TCO.
 
@not-rightfold They do use JITs, you know. I'd expect that if you're going to go so far as to bother to go to native code, you would perform TCO.
 
user1804599
They do, and those JITs don't perform TCO.
 
huh
well that's a waste of them
well anyway, as I just described, I don't think that performing TCO yourself would be a big deal.
 
user1804599
11:01 PM
> function f(x) { if (x === 0) return; else f(x - 1); }
undefined
> f(10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000);
RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded
 
user1804599
I was surprised with this already when we had to write a loop in college and I used recursion.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG I'll look into it. Thanks for the help.
 
no probs
but honestly, you should ask this stuff in #llvm
those guys literally do write optimizers for a living
 
user1804599
Perhaps. :P
 
if only I could join them :P
 
user1804599
11:04 PM
I'll first implement object literals, pattern matching on objects, variadic patterns and variadic functions.
 
user1804599
Tomorrow.
 
aaah, I remember how fast it is to implement shit
 
user1804599
rightfold.github.io/gear This is what I have now and I wrote it in about three days.
2
 
user1804599
The generated code is horribly inefficient; full of redundant functions and parentheses.
 
Ell
3 days
You wrote a language in 3 days
you're the devil.
 
user1804599
11:06 PM
Probably with loads of bugs. :v
 
undoubtedly
although Gear is probably a way simpler language than Wide
 
user1804599
Maybe I should rename let to le to attract the French.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG GC, dynamic typing, type system implementation already exists, so probably yeah.
 
Ell
@rightfold that infix syntax is really cool
 
user1804599
@Ell Unlike Haskell, it allows any expression rather than only an identifier.
 
11:08 PM
1
A: basic_filebuf::underflow error reading the file with ifstream on /proc/pid/stat

seheUpdate 2 I've even tried to force an error by manually setting tiny or huge buffer sizes: std::filebuf fb; // set tiny input buffer char buf[8]; // or huge: 64*1024 fb.pubsetbuf(buf, sizeof(buf)); fb.open(path.c_str(), std::ios::in); std::istream file(&fb); I've verif...

^ any one else here want to share a thought?
 
Ell
I tried again with wide. I think its a linking order issue
 
user1804599
Such as a ~:flip(subtract):~ b.
 
Ell
Still havebt asked a question because I cleaned makefile and started again
what does the (subtract) do?
 
hmm
stackedcrooked ran into the same issue.
 
user1804599
@Ell flip(subtract) is a function call. :V
 
Ell
11:09 PM
Is that b - a?
I am confused. I thought it was infix style?
Flip(subtract) is prefix, surely?
 
user1804599
let subtract = fn a b { a - b } in
let flip = fn f { fn a b { f b a } } in
console.log(a ~:flip(subtract):~ b == b - a) // true
 
@not-rightfold Not bad. You should be away from SO chat more often :/
 
user1804599
@Ell ~:some expression here:~ is an infix function.
 
and people said Wide had terrible syntax in some places
 
Xeo
@not-rightfold let tcartbus = flip subtract in a `tcartbus` b :D
 
user1804599
11:11 PM
@DeadMG I don't like function being such a long word. :P
 
Ell
Ahh I understand now
 
user1804599
That's also the reason I have ~: and :~ rather than just ~, they can be nested.
 
Ell
That's pretty awesome
 
try using something that actually looks like a brace
 
Xeo
Why should it look like a brace?
 
user1804599
11:13 PM
So if you love unreadable code, you could do something like x ~:flip(f |> g >> ((j ~:h:~ k) << i)):~ y.
 
flippant
 
user1804599
Which compiles to ((flip)((function(){return function(){return (h)(j,k)((i).apply(null, arguments))}((g).apply(null, arguments))})(f)))(x,y);. :P
 
Xeo
You need an paren-optimizer pass. :P
 
user1804599
That's the problem with JavaScript: fucking bandwidth.
 
user1804599
But I put parentheses everywhere to avoid operator precedence error crap.
 
Ell
11:16 PM
You can just run output to existing js minifier
 
user1804599
((flip)((function () {
    return function () {
        return (h)(j, k)((i).apply(null, arguments))
    }((g).apply(null, arguments))
})(f)))(x, y);
 
user1804599
This is the more readable version.
 
Xeo
Lispy.
 
Why is it called boilerplate?
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
11:17 PM
Rainbow parentheses! :orgasm:
 
Ell
Is lisp entirely s expressions?
 
Xeo
Btw, does your match have an otherwise/_ case?
 
user1804599
@Xeo _ is a valid pattern that matches anything.
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 no etymology in Oxford Dictionary.
 
Xeo
k
 
user1804599
11:19 PM
@Xeo There will be switch which will have otherwise. The difference between match and switch is that switch allows only guards and match allows only patterns.
 
user1804599
I should change match to allow guards after patterns too.
 
Ell
Guards?
 
user1804599
@Ell I haven't implemented guards yet, but it would be something like this:
 
Xeo
predicate tests
 
user1804599
match {
    [xs...] { printArray(xs) }
    x where x isa String { printString(x) }
    x where x > 0 { printPositive(x) }
    _ { printString("no printer!") }
}
 
11:21 PM
@not-rightfold Erm. I mean, I have heard of "boilerplate code". As I gather it, it is sort of... things you have to do before you can do what you actually want.
 
user1804599
The where-clauses are guards.
 
user1804599
I just call them where-clauses because that's what I call them in loops too. (E.g. for x in [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] where isEven(x) { x }.)
 
Xeo
let filterWith = fn xs p{ for x in xs where p(x) { x } }
...
console.log([1..10] ~:filterWith:~ isEven)
 
user1804599
Jup. :P
 
Xeo
Aw crap, I wanted to get to bed an hour ago. Well done.
 
user1804599
11:23 PM
This is also supported but still undocumented:
 
user1804599
let f = fn x [y, z] {
    match x {
        ^y { console.log('x equals y!') }
        ^z { console.log('x equals z!') }
    }
} in f(1, [1, 2]); f(1, [2, 1]); f(1, [3, 4] /* error: bad match */)
 
user1804599
^ does an equality test rather than binding to a new variable (syntax stolen from Elixir).
 
Xeo
So switch x{ ... } is match x { ^... }?
 
user1804599
Hmm. :)
 
user1804599
Well and that switch { … } is a shorthand for switch true { … }.
 
user1804599
11:27 PM
Maybe I don't need switch at all. It's not a top priority anyway so I'll see.
 
user1804599
Top priority right now is object literals, object pattern matching and variadics.
 
Ell
Dyu have classes?
 
user1804599
Not a top priority.
 
user1804599
I am not even sure how I want to do mutability, because it's kind of required if you want to modify the DOM.
 
Ell
But thinking of adding them?
 
user1804599
11:29 PM
Maybe, if prototypes don't work out well.
 
user1804599
I like prototypes.
 
user1804599
Now I think of it, I'll probably add classes. JavaScript's add a method syntax is tedious: MyType.prototype.myMethod = function() { … }.
 
Ell
I never saw the difference between a prototype and a class
 
user1804599
So it will probably be something like this in Gear: let MyType = type { myMethod { … } }.
 
user1804599
I am also thinking about lazy for, similar to generators. Or generators.
 
user1804599
11:34 PM
But I don't think it's possible in JavaScript.
 
user1804599
Mozilla supports fucking yield.
 
Ell
Go Mozilla
 
user1804599
Rust Mozilla
 
Ell
I don't know what yield does :(
 
@Ell it doesn't 'return' :)
@not-rightfold Again?
 
user1804599
11:37 PM
// @Ell: C#
int Range(int x) { for (var i = 0; i < x; ++i) yield return i; }
foreach (var i in Range(10)) Console.WriteLine(i); // prints 0 through 9
 
user1804599
@sehe ja :3
 
@not-rightfold cough (IEnumerable<int>)
I know what fucking yields
:)
 
user1804599
@sehe arrgg
 
Ell
Ahh got it
 
user1804599
This works with Underscore.js! Hurray! console.log(xs ~:_.zip:~ ys)
 
11:41 PM
@not-rightfold whatever the heck that might mean
 
user1804599
It zips xs and ys, duh.
 
user1804599
And it looks like Perl.
 
Worse. It looks like (badly) names operators
 
user1804599
Perl.js
 
user1804599
Oh damn I need regex literals.
 
user1804599
11:42 PM
Multiline with comments, like CoffeeScript.
 
user1804599
@sehe What would you propose?
 
user1804599
_.zip is a variadic function.
 
> Every 40 seconds in the United States, a child becomes missing or is abducted. source
@not-rightfold I didn't
 
@sehe o.O If that's true, those are some really scary stats
 
user1804599
@sehe "didn't" isn't an answer to a "would" question.
 
user1804599
11:47 PM
It makes no sense.
 
@Borgleader Added source
@not-rightfold I'm not under any legal obligation to make sense.
 
user1804599
> obligation |ɒblɪˈgeɪʃ(ə)n| noun an act or course of action to which a person is morally or legally bound; a duty or commitment
 
user1804599
Ah right, this is still Lounge<C++>.
 
user1804599
Je bent moe ga slapen.
 
You're not, rightfold
 
user1804599
11:48 PM
Yes I am.
 
user1804599
I'm tired as hell.
 
user1804599
Goodbye friends!
 
@sehe In the UK, abduction rates are lower. Children are much more valuable than in the US - they are a taxpayer-funded child-benefit income stream. When they get old enough to outlive their usefulness, they get neglected until the taxpayer-funded social services take them off the parent's hands for free.
 
> One in five children 10 to 17 years old receive unwanted sexual solicitations online
 
@sehe Then they get to 18, and the wanted sexual solicitations just disappear :)
 
11:56 PM
@MartinJames You know, I don't think neglect is the major contributor. Also, I don't think child-benefits (a) are ever a net benefit (b) are, therefore, ever a reason to be more vigilant over one's children.
 
@sehe Forgive me for being a little jaded over this issue. Anne's daughter, (by a previous marriage), is a totally selfish, uncaring, parasitic deadbeat who should have been steralised before becoming sexually mature.
 

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