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user784668
2:00 PM
Sure it is.
 
Ell
@bartek it doesn't change that fact, I said you might have a more pleasant experience. What is the error message?
 
Thanks.
 
user784668
@LucDanton It's int main() { return 0x78; }
 
@Ell ERROR: While generating documentation for jekyll-1.1.2
 
No it is not :D
 
@LucDanton Anyone who can read assembler can read that output, so as long as you're trying to claim it to someone who can, then it should be absolutely fine.
 
Ell
Anything else?
 
user784668
@LucDanton It is, do you claim objdump is lying?
 
@Fanael The interesting part is what I fed to GCC that resulted in that code.
 
user784668
@LucDanton better: use -M intel
 
2:01 PM
> deleted 19657 characters in body
says it all really
 
00000000004005e0 <main>:
  4005e0:       b8 78 00 00 00          mov    eax,0x78
  4005e5:       c3                      ret
  4005e6:       66 90                   xchg   ax,ax
 
@Ell yeah, some ramblings about "unhandled special" and html comment
 
@Fanael Exactly the kind of protip I wanted, thanks.
 
Ell
@bartek do you have rdoc installed?
 
@Ell I have no idea
 
Ell
2:02 PM
Try gem install rdoc
Then try again
 
Docs are not needed.
It's harmless if it fails.
 
i love how it doesn't display "Installing" or "fetching", just freezes the screen
 
Ell
Also, where did you install ruby from?
 
apt-get?
 
Ell
So Ubuntu repos?
Well, what version are you using?
 
2:03 PM
I don't know.
anyway robot is right
 
Ell
What does ruby --version give
Or whatever the version command is
 
$ jekyll works so fuck it
it's not like I am going to use the builting crap docs anyway
 
user784668
@LucDanton you may also want -C to demangle symbols and -S to show source intermixed with disassembly if possible
 
Ell
Ruby docs are good :o
 
yeah sure, probably as amazing as the language itself
2
 
2:05 PM
@Fanael I'll keep in mind -S for my own purposes, although it's not needed here.
 
user784668
@LucDanton also: you don't have to use objdump, tell the assembler to save the listing by compiling with -Wa,-ahl=file-name-goes-here, intermixing source with assembly generally is more reliable this way IIRC, but you still have to compile with -g to get it
 
user784668
Omit the h if you don't source.
 
-Wa to the driver and man as, got it.
 
yay it works
 
user784668
aaand see you guys later
 
Ell
2:14 PM
What's this? :o something good written in ruby :O
I'll be quiet :L
 
@LucDanton To give a direct answer to the question you actually asked: yes, it's understandable but it's AT&T syntax, which most people who've written assembly language find ugly and painful. It's sufficient to substantiate claims of improved code generation, but Intel syntax is nearly always preferable.
 
@Ell Should'a gone to SpecSavers.
 
@JerryCoffin stupid question; how can you know when loop unrolling will help vs hurt
 
hello guys , I have a for-loop in a batch file that is like this : for f in "$@" . could you please explain me what it does ?
 
Bye - I'm not staying around for this.
 
2:19 PM
@EiyrioüvonKauyf It's nearly impossible to say when loop unrolling per se will help/hurt. In most cases, to justify a claim of its improving code, you need to show that the unrolled loop improves ILP or something similar.
 
@georgemano $@ is all args passed. used for variable args
@JerryCoffin k.
ILP is ... instruction level parallelism?
I thought it was to stop hardware level branching
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Oh, sorry. Yes.
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf what is the meaning of the dollar , and what is the meaning of the @ ?
 
$ is for vars
@ is magical
$(cat)
$(foo)
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf That's the original intent, but it's mostly irrelevant on most modern CPUs.
 
2:21 PM
holy crap I think this works
 
@JerryCoffin mhmmk
now if only javascript could be fast :'D
speaking of which you wouldn't by chance know the memory tradeoff in branch conditions...?
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf can you be more specific?
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I wouldn't even be certain what the phrase "memory tradeoff in branch conditions" means.
 
memory/computation time tradeoff
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf it can. If you stick to a select few types of operations
@EiyrioüvonKauyf again, what do you mean?
 
2:23 PM
@jalf hmm...? i don't know the specifics of this
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes most of those theories are madness. They stand up really well, until you point out all the facts they have neglected.
 
The tradeoffs a CPU designer has to make when implementing the branch logic? Or... something entirely different?
Whose tradeoffs, when doing what?
 
uhhh the tradeoffs to generate all the boilerplate code to be able to choose a branch to make things go faster rather then generating code at runtime or something?
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf what?
 
so like what sort of speedups/memory gains/advantages do Branch Predictors give
 
2:25 PM
free branches if they're predictable - which they usually are
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf branch predication (as the wiki article talks about), or branch prediction?
 
In either case, if a branch can be correctly predicted, then it is effectively free. if it cannot, then it can cost ~20-30 cycles in additional latency
 
idk i thought of predication as a technique under the header of branching i ngeneral
@jalf so why does it generate those extra 20-30 cycles
like how does it generate the correct code to run
 
Because trains.
 
2:27 PM
^ obviously
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf kind of. Predication is when you explicitly issue an instruction saying "in a moment, you will get a branch. When you get to it, do/do not take it". Branch prediction also includes the automatic stuff done by the CPU, trying to guess whether or not to take it
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf no code is generated. It is already there when the branch instruction is executed
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipeline_(computing) might start to give at least an inkling of what's being dealt with.
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf because pipelining. Look up CPU pipelining :)
 
2:27 PM
if the branch is predicted correctly everything goes according to plan
if it was not correct the processor basically has to go back in time and re-do the computation
 
basically, instructions are overlapped. While one instruction is being executed, it is decoding the next instruction, and trying to load the instruction after that into memory
modern desktop CPUs have 20-25'ish such stages, meaning that at any one time, it can have that many instructions in progress, all at different stages of completion
 
Xeo
And now we tried the Rift Coaster demo
Pretty intense.
 
@jalf No. Predication is when you conditionally execute instructions other than a jump. Instead of something like: "if the carry flag is clear, jump [over the next instruction]", you make the next instruction itself execute only if there was a carry.
 
@JerryCoffin oh right, my bad
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Suppose that when encountering a branch instruction, it is not until stage 20 that the CPU has figured out whether or not to take the branch. That means the 19 stages that came before are now filled with instructions based on which instructions the CPU thinks come after the branch. if it guessed wrong about whether or not to take the branch, then it has to throw all those out and start over from the correct next instruction
 
sbi
@sehe What the hell are you even talking about?
 
2:32 PM
@jalf Also worth noting that the number of stages of varies depending on the instructions (e.g., there are often a few extra stages for floating point instructions compared to integer instructions).
 
sbi
Oh, @Jerry's here! Is it bedtime for me already??
 
@JerryCoffin yup. It's complex as hell
 
@sbi No, it's time I was still in bed, but I happened to wake up early today.
 
sbi
@EiyrioüvonKauyf You might want to do your homework next time before you post such bullshit. For one, I didn't even ask the question, and gave no answer of my own. And then it's Community Wiki, so that nobody earns anything from it. Well, except for SO's C++ community, which greatly benefits.
(I am deliberately not pointing at my Operator Overloading FAQ here...)
 
@jalf Excellent summary.
 
sbi
2:33 PM
@JerryCoffin Phew. You got me worried for a moment there. I'm still at work, after all.
 
@sbi Sorry about that! The management disclaims all responsibility for any heart attacks that may arise from the strange hours kept by this entity.
 
Lounge<Low-level shite>
 
@JerryCoffin hahaha
 
@sbi Somebody said "Hi", you responded "Lo", he responded "directionally neutral" (as in, neither "high" nor "low").
 
Oh, and for added fun, the CPU doesn't just have one instruction executing in each pipeline stage, because that would be too simple
 
sbi
2:37 PM
 
> json_spirit_lib.lib;libexpat.lib;zlib1.lib;xmpsdk.lib;exiv2s.lib;libeay32.lib;ss‌​leay32.lib;cppnetlib-server-parsers.lib;cppnetlib-uri.lib;cppnetlib-client-connections.lib;
 
fuck yeah I am starting to get how jekyll really works
 
I went on a bit of a spree there with the libraries...
 
ALL THE LIBS
 
@thecoshman I think most don't have such strong inconsistencies in them.
 
2:39 PM
@BartekBanachewicz now you need to understand hyde
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, to be fair I don't really have the memory to remember all those little details. So whilst I know better than to think this guy must be on to something, I equally would not be able to provide any real counter points.
 
Is there an archetypical example of mutually recursive functions? In the last few papers I read even/odd were used but IMO it's even more contrived than factorial as an example of a recursive function.
 
@jalf Just FWIW: a modern desktop CPU will typically have around 40 to 50 instructions "in flight" at any given time. Most are limited to decoding/retiring three instructions per clock, but can have a half dozen (or so) executing each clock. Despite this, typical code averages about 1.8 instructions retired per clock. Hand written assembly can often hit around 2.8 instead.
 
So what you're saying is, we should all go back to handwriting assembly?
 
Aaah fugg it, it's gonna be even/odd.
 
Xeo
2:43 PM
@LucDanton I think that C-coroutine blog post (with a macro and switch) had lexer/parser
 
@JerryCoffin I'm pretty sure the number is higher (I seem to recall 70+ a couple of years ago)
 
@Xeo Oh yeah.
 
but yeah, I miss the nice simple in-order single-scalar 5-stage pipelined CPU we had to design at uni. The real world is complicated :p
 
@jalf The maximum they can have in flight is higher, but it takes a pretty specific mix of input instructions to really have that many in flight at once.
 
@LucDanton Dunno. I can think of a bunch of functions that are banana-splits, but are not worth seeing as mutually recursive except for proof purposes.
 
2:44 PM
@JerryCoffin ah yeah, fair enough
 
@TonyTheLion I hope not.
 
@TonyTheLion power!!!
 
@thecoshman to the people!
 
What do I use in an SO answer for 'footprint' text?
 
@LucDanton If you mean "footnote", I use <sup>/<sub>
It's a bit of a hack, but there's no other way to get tiny text.
 
2:46 PM
@TonyTheLion I think the key word is "can". Rewriting in asm does not mean you will achieve that performance. Just that it is possible
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit make everything else headers
 
@thecoshman The last thing I remember from assembly is it took like 6 lines to call a function.
 
@TonyTheLion Not at all. OTOH, it does indicate a bit of inaccuracy in the claims that writing assembly by hand is necessarily a futile waste of time.
 
fuck yeah links work
my blog is going live soon <3
so much to write <3
 
2:47 PM
oh god
 
ergh... so much to bad mouth
 
@LucDanton I use <sup>&dagger;</sup> for the marker; --- for an horizontal ruler at the end; and normal text for the actual text, though I used <small>text</small> in the past.
 
no, I won't hate anything.
 
I'll read it if it's generally spiteful.
and genuinely spiteful
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes <small> doesn't work, IIRC
 
2:48 PM
@Xeo I don't care!
 
I will only describe my experiments. I want to write a bit about H99, a bit about my QuadTree...
 
@jalf I was making a bad joke.
 
Xeo
But yeah, <sup>†</sup> and then normal † explanatory text
 
@Chemistpp maybe I will create separate category :P
 
@TonyTheLion I know. But it is still a valid question :)
 
2:48 PM
It's for a dump of links to complete code examples, if that helps.
 
so you can read a fresh portion of Bartek-ish hate every morning.
 
lol. Direct3d would be found there
eer, directx
 
like, fuck this, fuck that, fuck ruby in particular
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I usually put the links right below the snippets.
 
@jalf Valid questions are valid. :)
@JerryCoffin Yea that is an interesting point.
 
2:50 PM
are you hosting your own blog or using a blog site? I was considering such a thing but got lazy at researching blog sites and cheap when I thought about registering a domain.
 
There's really only one :D
 
@Chemistpp I am using Jekyll and GH
 
@BartekBanachewicz We need that cat gif. Fuck this thing in particular
 
@TonyTheLion yeah, I was referring to it
 
Yea, I'm stupid.
I didn't read your message properly
I'll go back to doing what I do best
 
2:52 PM
@TonyTheLion Not stupid -- just snoozing, like any proper lion would be.
 
@JerryCoffin hehe
 
wooo syntax coloring
 
@TonyTheLion Given your history though, I think it may be time for a change: you should become Tony the Liger.
 
I may ponder this and get back to you with an answer.
 
We should gather all our blogs on Lounge<chat>
so we could have grouped RSS from everyone
 
2:54 PM
@BartekBanachewicz cool, so jekyll basically lets you write something in word format (spacing, bold, etc...) and converts it to xhtml? Or does it do more than just that?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Everyone does.
 
@Chemistpp it does a bit more. It's generally a very cool way to make a blog or a static page that's relatively rarely updated.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You mean, like a blog?
 
@EtiennedeMartel even better in terms of communist grouped RSS
 
Word format?
 
2:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes (Don't ask me)
 
@EtiennedeMartel like a blog that's not a blog vOv
@EtiennedeMartel he's gonna overcharge on that
 
Ell
I think Jekyll is good because of the templates is comes with :3
 
Jinja is good. And it looks like it.
 
Jekyll is good because it's in Ruby.
(Hihihi)
 
ha ha ha
 
2:57 PM
Templates?
 
templating engine
 
Did I miss something?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes {{ no }}
 
Jekyll uses Liquid, IIRC.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'll check it out then. I wanted to put some syntax on my blog.. could this do something like that and highlight it etc... The only thing I've experience with is geshi.
 
2:58 PM
@Chemistpp well Jekyll has pygments integration, so it's as easy as in their examples
it's picking weird font for templating though (at least in my current case)
 
Hey Jude.
 
I was looking at the overview because I had no idea what it was. I guess I should look into specifics of them
 
Greetings, Lounger! Die.
 
@ScottW Take a sad song, and make it better
 
Remember, let her into your heart.
 

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