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12:01 PM
> “Contribute” doesn’t scratch the surface of what needs to be done… Blender 3D is a better CAD package than the FOSS CAD packages, and it isn’t even CAD.

You have to use the proprietary software if you want to get shit done. It sucks. Life isn’t perfect. The tools are broken and there are no standards. x86 works by magic and RMS went back to his home planet.
ouch
rings too true
that being said
I can kinda sense the market here
There might be a place for a good, open CAD that people would still pay for
a pity that OpenSCAD is in C++
 
a friend of mine is working on some German CAD
looking at his code, I wouldn't spend any time trying to make the same, but for free
humongous amounts of time needs to be put there
 
@login_not_failed I have to agree, unfortunately
 
and it really sucks
 
Autodesk can pump out millions for development of software that's free to use
they're kinda killing off competition that way
 
indeed!
that friend's company goal is actually to catch up with Autodesk :D
 
12:06 PM
and at the same time they'll never make it good enough for everyone, they'll recommend paying for full Inventor instead
suck.
 
@BartekBanachewicz CSG has a completely different meaning in french :noel:
 
@BartekBanachewicz thanks! this is a very interesting link
 
@login_not_failed it looks awful btw
 
@BartekBanachewicz one of my other friends is working with experimental stuff with neuroheadsets
 
so far the best modelers I've found are IceSL and OpenSCAD
 
12:10 PM
so he'll make use of this crap for fast mockups
 
OpenSCAD looks more polished, but IceSL actually has a slicer as well
and IceSL runs Lua, not some crappy DSL
 
@BartekBanachewicz he said it doesn't fit, because he's using Processing now, so no use for this lib yet
 
nwp
12:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz what would you write a CAD program in?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ergh, start and stop function calls
 
12:42 PM
@nwp Not C++?
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz So you're just hating on C++ without any argument? In hindsight I should have known.
 
@nwp I believe I've made enough arguments against C++ already
do you expect me to reiterate on every single one?
for one, though, it's 2017 and it's still a pain to build such a project from sources
just looking at the dependencies list makes me cringe
C# could be an interesting choice actually
 
nwp
No, I expected you to say "Rust is much better here because more guarantees" or "Haskell is much better here because CAD profits greatly from monads" or at least something vaguely resembling an argument.
 
you need something with direct access to memory if you want a decent rendering setup
 
Haskell would be good because of how easily you can build the DSL for the model and obviously it's just a good language
@ratchetfreak every modern language allows you to access OpenGL which is enough for such a case
 
nwp
12:48 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Didn't you just argue that using lua instead of some crappy DSL is an advantage? Or does implementing a DSL in Haskell automatically make it not crappy?
 
@nwp Certainly it's easier to maintain a DSL written in Haskell than a DSL written in C++
if you use Lua then that part doesn't matter that much
but again, I'm not sure about Haskell, since the UI here needs to be pretty complex
Haskell's UI ecosystem probably isn't up to the challenge yet
 
Ven
1:03 PM
@nwp lol beating dead horses
 
@Ven clubbing dead seals
 
Ven
Clubbed To Death
 
@Ven Quality song
 
@Ven Excellent track
 
wallah tu trahis b2o frer
kouffar
 
Ven
1:07 PM
rooh
 
1:29 PM
 
hey
how do I tell what process is writing to disk (linux server)
 
trawl /proc/*/fd?
 
@ratchetfreak I found iotop
 
1:44 PM
> That's more than large enough for world GDP expressed in Zimbabwean Dollars.
 
Un disciple du duc : youtube.com/watch?v=4a0kRxpPZGo /cc @Ven
 
Ven
@Rerito dsl j'écoute columbine youtube.com/watch?v=LfFI3bzMLU0
 
@Ven j'ai mal à ma france
 
@Borgleader :D
 
Ven
@Rerito du lourd
 
1:47 PM
@Ven Ils massacrent mon prénom en plus ces b4t4r
 
2:05 PM
@Borgleader Considering that you needed 10^32 Zimbabwean dollars to make one USD at some point, a 32-bit int may have not been sufficient.
 
also sunday trade ban is fucking bullshit
it's probably the single most retarded thing about Germany and Austria I've first-handedly experienced
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sorry I don't understand spanish
 
@Rerito green is no restrictions, yellow partial, blue almost full - regarding trading on sundays, so e.g. shopping malls etc
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz it used to be stricter
it actually makes sense until you have fully automated shopping malls, and we don't have those yet
 
@nwp the Polish plan also proposes a ban on internet shopping
and machines
 
2:12 PM
Oh lol.
 
it's retarded beyond reason
like most of the things that involve "lawmaking" and "sundays" together
 
nwp
it could be worded to "people are not allowed to work in a shop on sundays" so that machines are still allowed
 
@BartekBanachewicz when you have state religion this is what you get
 
@nwp it could also not be worded at all
@Mgetz yeah, it's god awful
 
ScY
@BartekBanachewicz It's the state limiting the freedom of its people, inflicting on them what they think is right. It's completely backward thinking.
 
2:16 PM
What I'm surprised about is that Ireland doesn't ban trade on sundays
 
@ScY that applies to p much every limit though
 
nwp
@ScY That's not the (primary) reason. The point is to not waste resources.
 
ScY
The only difference is, that one makes only sense in a traditional sense.
@nwp What resources?
 
@nwp it's to force the people to not work
or to force the shops to not pay them for working
 
ScY
Even small retail stores are not allowed to open
 
2:18 PM
@ScY actually no
 
nwp
It turns out people buy the same stuff no matter how long stores are open, so if you have a law that says you have to buy all your stuff from 10-12 people will buy the same as if stores don't close at all. If you allow stored to be open you just wasted the manpower of the people working there for nothing.
 
I don't know which country from Central America added another non-worked day in the week this summer to avoid wasting resources.
 
but it doesn't matter, since they will be bought out anyway
@nwp yeah, you also make 20000 people lose their jobs here
 
@nwp the primary reason is to force people to obey the Christian Sabbath and go to church
otherwise they would offer religious exemptions
 
now tell those people who're gonna get fired that their work was wasted
 
nwp
2:20 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Jobs are worthless. Might as well pay them to sit at home and call it a job. What you want is people to do useful work and since the same trading happened with or without them they are by definition useless.
 
as such a rule significantly adversely affects jewish and muslim merchants
 
@Mgetz It'll just make people wank more because they've got nothing else to do.
 
@nwp but they won't be paid, and we don't have universal income yet
 
@Morwenn Law of Unintended Wankery
 
if they don't work, they'll get close to no money
 
2:21 PM
Which is a shame.
 
you'd be surprised how many jobs are "useless" anyway
 
@Mgetz make LUW not war
 
I am not sure if making them pretend to be useful isn't better in the long run though
 
nwp
If you want to just give money to people for economic reasons that's fine, but don't make them sit in stores for 8 hours for no reason.
 
what would you rather make them do
 
2:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz They's what they do in Japan so that there is « work » for everybody.
 
sit at home and watch tv?
 
@nwp I do my shopping on sundays, removing that would cause me economic harm
 
@Morwenn and so far Japan seems to be doing much better than Poland
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yup, but they've also got a high suicide rate (yay for random correlations).
 
2:25 PM
Well, not much higher than Poland actually...
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz I don't know. Water plants in public parks or make them sit in education facilities. Actually letting them sit at home and watch tv isn't the worst idea because some of them might get bored and start doing something useful.
 
ScY
@BartekBanachewicz They are not allowed. Only restaurants, gas stations, bars, pharmacies and such are allowed to open.
 
the reality is that when we get robots making our food and selling shit to us and doing basic tasks, the vast majority of people are gonna become pretty much useless
@ScY and small shops in Poland operated by their owner
I mean you can make people change their qualifications and do something else
but what if there's no simple jobs to do anymore
what if to become useful you need to start doing mentally challenging job that the vast majority of society can't perform?
 
@Morwenn japan has a lot of problems, most notably the inability to admit they have a problem
 
@Mgetz Haha, right :D
 
nwp
2:28 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I'm pretty sure with proper education and freedom you can make anyone useful.
 
@nwp But can you make anyone happy?
 
@nwp I'm not sure. Most of the people are lazy fucks
 
@Morwenn I could write an entire uninformed essay on how the US destroyed an already fragile society by introducing modesty
 
they're not willing to put in effort to be useful
 
yay for uninformed and unsourced drivel!
 
nwp
2:29 PM
@Morwenn I tried with one person, with mediocre success.
 
they're perfectly happy with being paid and even more happy if they don't have to do shit for it
they only do anything vaguely resembling usefulness because of the stuff they can buy for money they get that way
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz who?
 
@BartekBanachewicz not actually true, people with low engagement in their jobs are generally unhappy
 
@Ell the vast majority of pleb
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's fine then if you don't need them and have enough money to let them be happy :p
 
2:30 PM
@Morwenn it's not a question of money anymore
it's a question of robots being good enough
but you know what's the most contrasting thing for me there
the fact that the majority, the one that we plan to replace with robots and pay them for sitting on their asses, that they're gonna keep voting rights
you can be literally useless to society to the point where it will gladly pay you to fuck right off, but you can still vote
call me elitist or whatever you want, but this is just insane.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's alarmist, there are many many economic reasons to find other ways to deal with the issue
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz Ideally there will be nothing left to vote on. Voting is just to make leadership to distribute limited resources more or less fairly, without limited resources you don't need any of that.
 
/cc @Puppy
 
@nwp you can still vote to ban motorcycles
or make religion mandatory
or whatever the fuck they think about
@Shoe is it a keeper? :)
 
Nope. Just a guest for a couple of days
 
2:34 PM
Is it puppy?
 
Close enough
It reminds me of puppy a lot
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz I hope the "no-one can tell me what to do" mentality will win every time, making it a non-issue
 
@nwp I don't have high hopes about the majority opinion after Trump's presidency and Brexit
 
Motorcycles are costly though
 
@BartekBanachewicz There was a Churchill quote about that IIRC.
 
2:36 PM
So many dead and injuries as opposed to cars
 
It's tough to be an elitist x)
 
Ven
@Morwenn "if you leave me with an average voters for 5 minutes I'll show you why democracy is a bad idea"
±
 
Yeah, something along these lines.
 
@Morwenn Is it the same guy that advocated USE?
 
USE?
 
2:37 PM
United States of Europe
 
IDK
 
@nwp the irony is that the mentality will win, but at the same time those thinking it will be doing exactly what the powers that be want them to be doing
 
@Shoe is it yours?
 
irony that
 
2:39 PM
@Shoe There was also "Operation Unthinkable".
 
@Shoe yeah, to the people riding them
 
ScY
@BartekBanachewicz So you rather have an elitist society, where only does who have a job can vote? That's the most dangerous idea towards democracy. Its not the fault of the people for being replaced by robots.
 
@Rerito Nope, just staying at my house for a while while his owner goes out of town
@BartekBanachewicz Which then have to be cured with state taxes
 
@ScY I think I've expressed it many a time that I don't believe in universal vote, mostly because it doesn't seem to work.
 
Well
Cured or buried or cremated
 
2:40 PM
@ScY just wait for his "Voluntary surplus population reduction" initiatives!
 
I'm mostly thinking about injuries of course
 
@Shoe I would gladly cover the entirety of my medical bills, iff the society stopped forcing me to pay for the shitty public plan anyway
I would also applaud the idea of motorcyclists, and frankly, everyone else, paying for them.
 
@BartekBanachewicz you must assume you'll never get cancer
or sick
 
@Mgetz It's still cheaper to pay for an ultra premium plan that covers that than to rely on state funding
also state funding would put me on like 5 years waiting list anyway so I'd have to pay the full amount regardless of whether I actually have it or not if I want to be actually cured
 
@BartekBanachewicz or you could recognize that Healthcare is a commons that benefits all and just pay for it.
 
2:42 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Unless you live in France x)
 
that way we have a way of dealing with mass epidemics instead of shoving our heads in the sand
 
@Mgetz it hasn't benefitted me for the last few years when I've been covered by private plans
 
@BartekBanachewicz just because you're not getting diseases like plague from homeless people doesn't mean the system doesn't work
 
@Mgetz oh sure, if you make vaccines mandatory and not taking them pursued by law , I'll happily pay for that
 
it means you're not directly seeing the results
 
2:43 PM
right now the vaccine freaks still have too much leeway
 
you can't vaccinate for plauge
it's a bacterium
 
or for lyme disease (amoeba)
 
4 mins ago, by Shoe
@BartekBanachewicz Which then have to be cured with state taxes
 
or Malaria (ameoba)
 
2:44 PM
I guess we started with that
 
What about people that can't pay for healthcare?
 
my point is that you do benefit, you just don't realize it
 
@Shoe for one, they shouldn't ride motorcycles
 
I thought we moved to public healthcare vs private healthcare
 
Well I suppose you could simply raise taxes
and say that everyone's covered right now
that would at least save millions on actually useless jobs in our National Insurance Fund
 
2:47 PM
@BartekBanachewicz they aren't useless now, they would be then
 
@Mgetz in a lot of cases getting people to pay costs more than the money you get from them
 
it's one of those cases where you're creating inefficiency by over-regulation
 
it's my frustration with the right wing here
they try to "remove regulation" then add in a bunch of moral garbage that will cost more to enforce
like work requirements
 
at this point I agree it's better to just provide some universal service to everyone at a baseline level and distribute a part of tax money to it
but this makes sense, just as not subsidising religion does, which is why no one will do that ever
oh my god this is why I don't read the news
 
2:55 PM
@BartekBanachewicz That shows ignorance of history.
 
the road safety report shows that Polish roads became more dangerous last year
the government blames old cars imported from the west, and plans to solve the problem by taxing the import of old cars even more
 
Historically, every time we made more people "useless", productivity went up, because they just shifted their efforts to more productive ventures.
 
yes, make the cheapest cars more expensive, that will surely make people buy the newer more expensive ones
I don't even and I don't want to even
@R.MartinhoFernandes welp, I sure hope that happens
someone's gonna install the massive solar farms and clean them or someshit
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz There was that article from paul graham that I can't find anymore. It essentially said when other people fuck up it is because they are dumb and then they offer excuses, while when you fuck up there are good reasons, you just can't explain them properly without them just sounding like excuses. Turns out those other people have reasons too. You should try to keep that in mind and not assume people to just be dumb.
6
 
Hello, Cruel World!
 
2:57 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You don't think there's an end to this though?
 
I have not seen reason to believe so.
 
Like say that one day we build robots that make robots that are equivalent to us
The singularity engine
 
@nwp I don't see how this changes anything
when I fuck up it's because I'm doing something that the humanity still hasn't figured out how to do
when a Mac worker fucks up your order, it's because we still don't have a robot to replace him for some reason
despite the fact we essentially make them work like robots and do the thinking for them
 
@nwp haha, good luck getting that through.
 
Ven
lol arguing with bartek
 
2:59 PM
the idea could work if you compared two at least vaguely similar jobs
 
-7
Q: Good new, young blog for .Net developers

David MooreAs a beginner in Db development, advise please a good, not huge blog for .Net Developers.(Sql Server, c#). Simple talk - too much for me for now

/cc @Mysticial
 
but what I was talking about was like the ultimate minority vs the jobs that we plan to replace with robots and that's really not comparable
 
I have this weird feeling that the programming industry is going to crash soon
 
@Shoe Paperclippers render the whole problem moot.
 
@Shoe the only crash I can see is more PHP developers
 
3:01 PM
Sep 25 '15 at 16:52, by Bartek Banachewicz
fuck I fucked up when opening my yoghurt
:D
 
Like people will get tired of social networks and the internet, therefore less people will browse the internet, the ads industry will move to other mediums (TVs or streams or podcasts) and a lot of web dev companies will crash
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes see, I don't have any excuses for that :D
 
ScY
@Borgleader "Simple talk - too much for me for now"
just lol
 
Or, we finally figure out ways to make it easy to build UIs for both websites and desktop/mobile development so that non-programmers are capable of assembling components together to build them.
Which I'm guessing is like 90% of the programming jobs out there
 
@Shoe and since when do we care about those jobs?
I think the only time I cared about them was when I was looking for my first job ever
 
3:03 PM
It's a nice plan B if you can't get the job you want. So... since always?
 
@Shoe People have been saying that since as far back as this was a meaningful problem.
 
@Shoe working on a shitty codebase for a shitty product is not "a nice plan B"
I'd personally consider that pretty much an ultimate failure
 
I never mentioned shitty codebases nor shitty products
 
well then that still doesn't bring us to the 90% of jobs, because they're ^
 
What are you working on again?
 
3:05 PM
@Shoe Application Performance Management
we point at things and say "it's fast" or "it's not"
but I don't code too much nowadays
 
Anyway. I think I'm getting dumber
 
in other news, is Dell launching some new laptops soon
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz an update on the XPSs?
or a new line?
 
@Ell I don't think they'll allow me to get an XPS
I am considering switching my work machine to a laptop from a workstation and supposedly we'll be allowed to get some fresh stuff soon
@Ell but everyone here I know has either Latitudes or Apple stuff
 
Yesterday I came up with a brilliant idea: build a protocol so that users would be able to send messages to online services and services could send the template for that message so that a rendering program could display the input objects for that message and the user could easily send them. Only after a while I realized I was talking about an HTTP-like protocol, with a markup language and browsers to render the content.
 
3:11 PM
@Shoe yep, stuff made prior to 2000s was actually pretty decent ;)
 
Yeah, but that shows that I'm both 20+ years behind and I'm unaware of the fact that I'm copying things that exist already.
 
@Shoe don't worry, that's gonna be your 90% of the industry
 
I dunno, the idea of components/agents sending messages to each other turns me on.
 
I've also reinvented something before: a CPU where the cache is explicit, you have to page in the cache lines when you needs them and flush them out explicitly when you are done with them. Then I realized that's just like the PS3's Cell processor.
 
I actually pointed out that we're almost copying html as well on our today's meeting
@ratchetfreak I think one of my biggest reinventions was a web ORM and something that we could call Angular nowadays
 
nwp
3:14 PM
@Shoe supposedly reinventing stuff produces a meaningfully better result every 10 years or so
 
I didn't program functionally and static reflection out of data model was waaaaaay above my head
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Moving code from a cloud node to another?
 
Hi Guys
I have a test projects where I put my C/C++ files just to play around
How can I run the files individually
I understand I can only have 1 main function
but is there a way I can run them individually ??
 
just compile the one file
 
how tho
sorry not sure
 
3:19 PM
What do you mean run them individually?
 
this is very easy in scripting language
 
This is very easy in C++.
 
When you compile an executable you can only have 1 main function.
For obvious reasons
 
yes I know
 
But there's no restriction for files that are not compiled and linked together
 
3:20 PM
maybe I dont explain it well
 
you are working in an IDE I guess?
 
so I need a main function in each file
yes CLion
 
Just learn to use command line tools
 
Add a target for each file.
 
and knowing the command line way will let you reason about why your build f'ed up
 
3:21 PM
I know command line
 
Then just clang++ -std=c++14 -O2 -Wall -pedantic file.cpp -o executable
 
will I need to put a main function on each file
??
 
What else would you run.
 
or create a launcher.cpp with a main and you call the foo_main from there
 
so put a main function on each file, and compile them individually?
 
3:23 PM
when you want to change which one runs you change which foo_main it calls
 
@ratchetfreak This is actually a good idea
 
rename the function as needed
I see
Was looking for better ways
 
I'm so meda even dis acronym
 
but it seems there isnt
 
you'd have to change the way the project is built
 
3:26 PM
@meda Better in what way?
What improvements are you looking for?
 
I just want to be able to pick a file and run a command on it
console app you know
just print stuff for me to see outputs
 
Just make a target for each file.
 
Use a debugger
 
RIght now I have a main.c file
where I import everything ,
 
@meda But that's exactly the same as what you were given. You said you wanted something better. Just didn't say better how.
 
3:28 PM
and comment out stuff as needed
I dont like that I have to import all my files in main
and comment them out
so that is why I mean by something better than doing this
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Just make a target for each file.
 
I think he wants a repl
 
you can declare the function prototype in the launcher.cpp without needing the include
 
Oh ok I will give it a try
 
@ratchetfreak That's arguably worse.
 
3:34 PM
One last question guys
best documentation for C and C++
 
cppreference.com
 
where to find
has any use this
thanks @Shoe bookmarking it
 
@meda I didn't
 
ScY
@meda There is also this for c en.cppreference.com/w/c/language
 
right
Actually devdocs.io pulls the docs from them
 
4:26 PM
how to stop privacy from being violated; start a crowdfund campaign to buy and publish the legislators' internet history, gofundme.com/searchinternethistory
 
nwp
they should add and ban everyone who uses it
they should also make it so I can put a proper / inside tags
 
Anyone knows why the struct variable from an array of structs points to something different than directly accessing it with an index?

e.g. list[0].x = 3; works but struct Test name = list[0]; name.x = 3; doesnt?
 
nwp
Mar 21 at 15:16, by nwp
Read the Rules! TLDR: Questions go here.
 
sry
 
@Borgleader I think the OP needs help. :)
@Borgleader I raise you:
-14
Q: ANDROID PROGGRAMMING

Rajat Nigam[[{"room_id":"1","Ownername":"rajat","description":"snklsncks","Mobile Number":"1234567890","location":"wkdnwk","city":"mwsdklw","status":"available","image":"demo.infotechmantra.com/demo/house.png"},{"room_id":"3","Ownername":"radhe mohan","description":"very big 2 BHK flat","Mobile Number":"989...

 
nwp
4:45 PM
I wish I could downvote you in real life. — Boann 36 mins ago
wow
 
The botany comment would be very appropriate here.
 
@Mysticial question.json
xD
 
user1804599
Congrats Brits 😃
 
user1804599
I'm so happy for you
 
5:14 PM
It started really well. Merkel already rejected their plan to do trade talks in parallel to the leaving talks.
 
5:35 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes she knows she can basically extort anything she wants from them for the most part
 

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