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8:00 PM
I mean, it can satisfy this need if you have one
 
I find it interesting to watch kids because they are growing up in a time that's different than the time I grew up in. And even though it's only 10 or 20 years difference a lot has changed. Seeing them confronted with the stuff I grew up with is at least mildly entertaining.
 
I dunno I still feel like a child
I never really grew up
I still want to learn new things and explore and have fun
 
if you want to lose hope in humanity just scroll down to the comments in this video
 
@BartekBanachewicz You did. Because kids don't say stuff like that.
 
8:03 PM
> Oh my god we are all screwed...generations are getting worse.
> Felt like the 90s are the last generation to know / Used this…
oh shut up about your 90s nostalgia
 
@milleniumbug lol, youtube comments
 
@StackedCrooked wat
 
I used this hardware and I don't want to go back
fuck floppy disks forever
 
I am pretty sure some kids don't want to grow up
 
@milleniumbug Amen.
 
8:04 PM
at least they'll say that
 
also since I can run all the stuff there in an emulator, I can agree 100% with the kids I don't want to own this hardware
 
@milleniumbug Long live gigabit internet, SSDs, high resolution monitors, and gigabytes of RAM.
And what else :D
 
@StackedCrooked Gigabit internet won't happen until Google Fiber gives Comcast some competition.
 
Today I was thinking of old farts 60 years from now complaining about "kids these days" who don't go out anymore, and how in their days they had to go out with their AR phones to play games and how much better that was and how "kids these days" just stay home all the time.
 
They recently threw a 1TB monthly bandwidth cap on my connection.
 
8:07 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Couldn't be. "Lost Boys"/"Never never land", and "I don't wanna grow up; I'm a Toys R us Kid" never happened.
 
Cable (coax) can give you gigabit speeds. At least in the lab. Soon in the field as well. (If the ISPs are willing.)
 
@Mysticial maybe in primitive countries like USA
 
I threatened Comcast that I'll switch providers if they slap on the 300GB limit that they've been slapping on to other counties. So they gave me a 1TB one instead.
 
@StackedCrooked FTTH or bust
@Mysticial lol limited transfers
we had them on mobile phones like a year ago
 
@Phantom No, this doesn't work in VC++ either.
 
8:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Sure. But my paycheck is indirectly paid by cable modem manufacturers :)
 
@milleniumbug or moving
 
3 messages moved to C++
 
@StackedCrooked hah
 
5 messages moved to C++
 
8:12 PM
"It compiled" != "It Worked", for what it's worth.
 
What's wrong with discussing C++ here?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes IIRC MSVC has a non standard extension where you can bind a temporary to a non const reference. Probably sure that doesn't suddenly make your reference members not break, but I understand where the guy comes from.
 
everything
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sorry
 
@Mysticial Don't be such a Puppy.
 
8:13 PM
You seemed you wanted out. So I moved it.
 
always move C++ out
 
FWIW, that room does work decently well as a helpdesk.
There's usually one of us who's willing to hand-hold someone.
 
that's more of an accident really
and it really happens when there's no other important discussion going on
like children using typewriters
also I should start packing but that's effort
 
Or internet providers.
 
gosh I wish I could just teleport home
 
8:16 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Sit!
 
without all the packing and stuff
 
There should be some tolerance to people asking C++ questions. It it's at least beyond the newbie level and somewhat interesting.
 
@StackedCrooked That's only the second time I've moved a help-desk question. I don't do it unless people get annoyed. Robot seemed annoyed, so I moved it. But clearly I misread since he's helping the guy atm.
And usually the puppy takes care of it before I even have a chance to look.
 
template<typename T>
inline decltype(auto) get(lua_State* L, int index = -1);
template<typename T>
inline decltype(auto) get(lua_State* L, int& slots_used, int index = -1);
 
@Mysticial Same :)
 
8:21 PM
I need a name for the second overload.
counted_get ?
 
are you using an out parameter
 
Yes.
 
czy ty masz godnosć i rozum człowieka
 
qq
 
@BartekBanachewicz is that a brand of polish wodka?
 
8:22 PM
it's a meme
 
Ell
@ThePhD what are slots?
 
Stack slots.
You get an index in the stack,
and then can pull multiple things out of the stack
 
@ThePhD congratulations, you're in the "terrible API club"
 
It's in namespace stack { ... get ... }
 
Ell
also why is get not good enough?
 
nwp
8:23 PM
@ThePhD does inline actually do anything there?
 
Because the overload is ambiguous.
 
Ell
oh yeah ofc
 
@nwp It was once not a template, so it stopped the pain.
 
@Mysticial Actually, just checked and it seems robot is still an owner :P
 
get_IFuckedUpImSorryPleaseAcceptThisShittyApiAsAnApology
 
Ell
8:24 PM
take a pointer? :P
nah
err
get_with_slots
idk really
 
get_rekt
 
@ThePhD Eww, no. Don't make anything defaulted in the second overload.
 
this is bound to create more confusion than nodejs apis
 
That's kinda crappy tho. .-.
 
lol
no shit
 
8:26 PM
Ah, damnit.
 
@ThePhD It's less crappy than getting the wrong overload picked silently.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well yeah, that's why I was wondering about a new name!
 
why is the lua state pointer exposed directly in the first place
 
Ell
if it had a different name, that wouldn't happen
@BartekBanachewicz probably internal
 
This is internal stack manipulation land. Sometimes people need the stack abstractions because I can't forsee EVERYTHING, so I still try to make the internal stack API reasonable.
 
8:27 PM
@Mysticial Robot is an owner, he could have moved it himself if he was annoyed.
 
Is it an in-out parameter?
get_n?
 
Ell
I think to be honest I'd prefer to return the int
and make the T the out
meh
 
@Ell if it's internal then who cares about api breakage
@ThePhD so you're breaking the internal API
 
nwp
8:32 PM
@StackedCrooked wow. That could be an instant kick today.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No one mentioned that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes mentioned what
 
@StackedCrooked That's a fucking long time ago. :)
 
API breakage.
 
8:32 PM
@nwp Times were different back then :)
 
if api breakage is not a problem then why use out param?
just return a freaking struct or something
IDGI
 
That doesn't play nice with auto or composition?
 
@nwp Many times I have been destroyed by the people in this room. Usually by cat and/or puppy. But I learned some good stuff from it :)
 
ok actually I've changed my mind
I don't want to know
I just don't
C++ doesn't exist
2
My own little world has magic ponies in it
 
nwp
8:35 PM
how much beer did you have again?
 
enough to realize talking about C++ isn't good for my sanity
I'm just going to pretend bad things don't exist and hope they will go away
fuck reality
 
lol
 
Ceci n'est pas une C++.
Ok, that doesn't make sense.
 
When I first saw "ceci n'est pas une pipe" at first I didn't get it because "pipe" also means "blowjob".
So I was like "indeed, that isn't a blowjob"
 
shit
I've just realized I have 2.5kg of pasta
which I must've bought thinking I'm out
3 times in a row
 
8:49 PM
.-.
Lol, no defined order of argument evaluation
Can't have this std::tuple constructor call have a defined order
 
@BartekBanachewicz I feel so jealous about that, for some reason.
 
Thanks C++
 
@StackedCrooked I can give it to you for free
 
Maybe I'm hungry..
 
I am pretty sure I'm already right up to the weight limit :/
well maybe I'll leave it for the next occupant
I got the place completely empty but I suppose I could leave some stuff that won't spoil like cleaning supplies and salt and pepper
 
8:51 PM
There's no way to construct a tuple in pieces, is there?
 
after all it's gonna be students living here
 
@ThePhD can you be more specific?
are we allowed to construct, then move?
 
I'm trying to avoid construct, then move.
 
C++ doesn't exist
 
@ThePhD What
 
8:54 PM
@orlp I have a std::tuple<A, B, C>, where A/B/C are structs. I have a function that produces A, B, and C separately. I try to call std::tuple<A, B, C>( produce_first( ... ), produce_second( ... ), produce_third( .. ) ), but the problem is that order of argument evaluation is undefined and I can't have a certain parameter dependent on the order of execution of those 3 functions.
Things were a lot simpler when I didn't support structs that could span multiple slots at runtime. .-.
 
why is argument evaluation order undefined in 2016...
 
because oh my god the performances
 
@orlp Because some doof got on their moral high horse and said "nobody can possibly make code that depends on it that isn't broken".
Which has been the reason since forever. It was recently addressed in the C++17 meeting but I don't know if anything about it changed.
 
@orlp optimization options are endless that way
 
@Shoe I love O(endless) compile times
 
8:57 PM
The real annoying part is that x = x++ isn't defined. I believe it's defined for objects with overloaded ++ due to the sequence point implied by the function call, but not for primitives.
 
More like O(1/endless)
 
And really, what's so hard about defining x = x++?
 
@Mysticial I honestly don't know.
The funny thing is, everyone on the committee is changing their tune now that future.then is on the way.
Before it was "LUL nice code that depends on argument order feggit"
5
Now it's "Oh crap we can't implement future.then() properly without a well-defined order".
 
@ThePhD TIL the committee is basically twitch chat
6
 
> Great drivers in autonomic cars
it's a fucking oxymoron you idiots
 
9:01 PM
@orlp Basically.
 
@ThePhD lol
 
@ThePhD lol
@ThePhD You can't?
 
what is the best order, left to right or right to left?
 
@Shoe Yep, it's the current blocker for the future.then proposal.
They mention it in the minutes of the latest proposal.
 
my intuition says left to right but I don't have a good argument other than we read left to right
 
9:06 PM
@ThePhD Why?
 
Apr 27 at 12:07, by Bartek Banachewicz
> The actual discussion in the C++ committee with regard to concepts:
> > Lol let's make the concept take a type here.
> > But what for?
> > IDK lol.
> > Lol.
 
@Shoe Reasoning is in P0145R3 ("Refining Expression Evaluation Order for Idiomatic C++")
Fuck, how do hyperlinks work again?
 
they don't for multiline murkdown
 
Lol, it didn't look like multiline because on my squished browser window it looked perfect.
wp, linebreaks
 
funny how people using tabs use the same argument
 
9:14 PM
@ThePhD oh it's due to chaining
 
nwp
@orlp because future.then kinda needs them to be left to right
 
I'm watching yet another SJW fail compilation on youtube
why am I doing this to myself
why are humans self destructive
 
what's the purpose of human sentience
 
^ Proposed setup
 
9:15 PM
If you go to a grocery store to ask about your mortgage, you will get the same response. — Mysticial 7 secs ago
 
what is our mission in this universe
do we have a purpose at all
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz go sleep
tomorrow you will still not have answers, but you will know not to ask
 
hold on
Why is:
#include <map>
int main() {
    std::map<int, int> m;
    m[0] = m.size(); // #1
}
 
@nwp plz tomorrow I have to get up super early
 
undefined again?
 
9:16 PM
it's suckage
 
Is that call like m.operator[](0, m.size());?
 
@Shoe no
it's m.operator[](0) = m.size();
 
@Shoe not sure if that's undefined, but it's at least unspecified
 
Oh shut up, trying to be funny. fuck off man i'm just trying to get this code fixed and you are all aholes, why do you think the programming tag is there? — Maartenww 9 secs ago
 
9:18 PM
C++ doesn't specify which gets eval'd first?
 
So the unspecifiedness is in operator= rather than on operator[], right?
 
nobody knows
it's a mystery
 
Well.
People are fighting against the very thing I want
 
9:22 PM
@Shoe lol
 
Left to right defined order of argument evaluation, even in the meeting minutes everyone fought against it.
And the reason they cite is literally "my performances".
 
Oops I did it again
Thank you SO for creating doc.SO
 
@Shoe lol, is that real?
 
@wilx nah
 
documentation.so
 
9:25 PM
inb4 decrease in number of questions answered on main site
people protesting in the streets
SO losing users fast
bankrupt ensues
jeff atwood making speeches about the ultimate sacrifice
fascism
 
Ven
Yo
 
On a different note, I feel like a leper. My skin is peeling off and I need to scratch all the time.
curses the Sun
 
Sunburn?
 
put sun cream on your skin
PUT IT ON YOUR SKIN
 
@ThePhD Yes, from last Friday.
 
9:27 PM
@ThePhD No, leprosy
 
nwp
@Shoe what, did he drink it last time?
 
don't put it in your mouth
 
Is it possible to do std::tuple<A, B, C>{ A(out_param), B(out_param), C(out_param) }; and expect the order of argument evaluation to be A, B, C ?
 
I doubt it
 
You know what, let me just try it on a bunch of different compilers and see what happens.
 
nwp
9:29 PM
try with clang first, it has a tendency to break stuff when it is allowed to
 
Ven
Yes you can.
Hence the old trick to force arg evaluation order
@Shoe it's just, like, calls, man.
 
Seems like using {} to construct fixes the evaluation order.
I'm glad that {} was specified to have fixed left-to-right evaluation.
My only saving grace rn.
 
Ven
Just like I said '-'
Either he doesn't trust me or he plonked me...
and he'd be right to either way.
 
I haven't plonked you, I was just in coliru before you said anything and decided I'd post it anyways.
 
Ell
yooka-laylee sandbox is out!
I wish I could get it :(
 
Ven
9:38 PM
Ah, ok. Punishment either way... :3
 
okay sometimes those vids are genuinely funny
 
nwp
I noticed that I'm really bad at spotting bugs like this, because that's what warnings are for. I feel like it will screw me over in a job interview some day.
 
> It's a word being used, I mean, it's a word
 
@BartekBanachewicz Hey, I just subscribed to that just 2 hours ago
just
 
@Shoe I've been watching way too many of those lately
lol found a gold comment
> "Mansplaining is a word that's used" So is nigger.
 
9:49 PM
@nwp Not sure if you'd like to work for a company where you get to be a human compiler at the job interview
 
people seem to be scared shitless of the interviews
one would think that after finishing those prestigious universities you'd be able to find a job everywhere you want
 
OTOH it's small code fragment and the fact that they tell you there's a bug tells you enough
That is, you start looking for the warning signs
And suspicious code
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's kinda true in the US actually - provided that the position actually matches the person's major.
It'll at least get you a phone interview.
The most important about an interview is not to be scared shit. Because when you're scared shit, you won't be able to answer shit. And you still think like shit.
 
@Mysticial and yet still people write passionate posts about how hiring sucks and how whiteboards don't showcase their amazing ruby portfolio on gitbub
 
And don't be sick either. I failed an onsite interview because I had the flu and I couldn't think for shit.
 
9:54 PM
whiteboards don't show your gitbub
hell they don't even show your real skill
 
don't be bub
 
think lots of people don't understand that whiteboards are for showing your thought process
not what your actual result is
(assuming you don't go 'what do you mean, tree?')
 
nwp
maybe I should get back to streaming
not that I'm good at it, but it helps practicing expressing your thought process
 
draw a tree
 
9:55 PM
@orlp Interestingly, about half the interviews I've done involved coding something on a computer they provided onsite.
That's one of the ones I failed in NYC because I was sick and I couldn't think properly.
 
the one thing I concede is that requiring programmers to code something while not allowing internet access is bullshit
 
@nwp teaching is best for that
teaching is the best way to find weak spots in your knowledge
 
@orlp That is definitely bullshit. If anything, monitor the person to see what they are doing.
 
google is part of my thinking process
 
9:56 PM
this chat is a part of my thinking process
 
both for trivial stuff (what was the syntax again to find the second substring), but also for fundamental angles of attack of a problem
 
also my friend found a creationist convention in my city and we want to go
 
then you'll get counted in the statistics
"Creationist convention, 100000 attend"
 
I have every intention of getting kicked out of there before they start counting
 
how would you feel about creationists going to an atheist convention and making noise there until they get kicked out?
 

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