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7:20 PM
@nwp Interesting
 
I saw a lovely quote today
> We are poor because of the rich people.
 
yep
 
my head hurts
fucking heat
FFS
she's like Robert Harvey of 3D printing
> No regular person is ever going to bother with 3D printers
> Translation: Anyone else that succeeded is a nerd and not a regular person like I clearly am
 
@Shoe Thanks!
 
user406009
Well, it's a dumb article but I do think 3d printers are doomed to fail in the general population.
 
7:31 PM
> Ray and I should have done a better job reading instructions
> the fact that all of those things have to be done to successfully 3D print something proves that this technology is just not ready for regular people.
Again
 
user406009
The problem is that they simply don't provide enough value.
 
Regular people are too dumb to read instructions
Clearly they all are because I am a regular person and can't read the fucking instruction
seriously where do they breed those morons
she's apparently 20yo
is this the kind of people that's supposed to be the "next generation of programmers"
 
> It turns out, the 3D printer we used only works with cards formatted using the FAT16 file format.
 
> Granted, we could have read the instructions first
but who does that right
certainly not regular people
 
fucking hell
fuck the new generation
 
7:33 PM
they copy and paste code from stackoverflow and write shitty articles
 
this world is fucked on so many levels
 
and then people wonder why I despise people
 
@BartekBanachewicz same
 
@ChemiCalChems Yeah fuck the new generation.
Back in my day...
 
wait there's more
> I'm a very tech-savvy person. I'm great with gadgets
lol, you're not, you fucking dumbnut
you failed to read the fucking instruction manual
 
7:35 PM
i mean, i'm the new generation, but it's fucked
i'm not saying i'm not
 
that's not "tech-savvy". That's borderline retarded.
 
i'm nothing compared to the people back in the day
 
but i fucking read instructions if i need to
 
bring me a ruby book
 
7:35 PM
i don't write an article proving i'm stupid
 
@BartekBanachewicz Instruction manuals exist because of failed UI design
 
@Puppy fair enough, but they are plain stupid anyway, and that's final
 
Puppy also makes a point.
 
well
whether or not these specific people are stupid is an independent matter ;p
 
Things should be intuitive.
 
7:37 PM
yes everyone should be able to operate a CNC machine without any instructions whatsoever
 
@Nooble yes, that's true. but chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/31881320
 
welding is easy after all you just stick things together
 
> This stuff is too complicated for tech-savvy people, let alone normals.
lol
 
and obviously this 1800W 3-phase drill can be just plugged in right
 
@Nooble she isn't fucking tech savvy at all, that's what pisses me off
or he whatever
 
7:38 PM
The makerbot is a semi-professional CNC device
it's not a fucking coffee maker
 
@BartekBanachewicz But 3D printers (especially thr new ones) are all about accesibility and ease-of-use.
 
IT is below normal, yes, it
 
@Nooble yes, but it wasn't a new one that's marketed as easy to use
every reputable 3D printing company says that it's actually not that easy to print
 
yes, but the shit they mention has nothing to do with it being difficult because it's a difficult process
not being able to read the file format is just bad software if it's a popular format
 
but of course those people think they're great and then fail spectacularly
 
7:39 PM
and not being able to read the SD card unless it's FAT16 is just dumb as shit
 
@Puppy it wasn't a popular format. It was a sketchup file
@Puppy unless maybe you want to drive the costs down and that SD card controller was tremendously cheaper
 
well, arguably the fault lies with the creators then, but it's still not the fault of the users.
@BartekBanachewicz I find it hard to believe that dealing with FAT32 is so expensive.
I imagine that most phones can handle SD cards in that format.
 
I am not saying it is. I am just saying it's a possibility
 
and the 3D printer is hardly cheap to begin with
if you're gonna sell an expensive product, may as well pay a little more so that the user can at least get the benefits advertised
 
@Puppy yes, but most phones sell in tens of thousands more copies
 
7:41 PM
for a substantially lower price I expect
 
that's how mass production works
if you order enough of units you get a cheaper price
if you order like a 1000 of them, even a Fat32-capable controller can be prohibitively expensive
 
yes, but that's immaterial in this case.
 
or outright unreachable
 
no, that doesn't really make much sense.
 
I am not saying you're not right, I'm just saying it's a possible reason
 
7:42 PM
the FAT32 controller used here is probably just the same one used in the phones.
 
well, no, clearly
 
I highly doubt they made their own specialized SD card controller.
 
no, they probably just picked the cheapest one
 
and since your users must pay a high price anyway
it's a bit of a false economy to try to lower it by a tiny amount so that they then can barely use the very-expensive-anyway product
 
I don't think it works that way
 
7:43 PM
also
> Our fifth attempt at 3D printing was well underway when the file crashed inside the 3D printer software. We were 88 percent through, and bam. Our Pokémon dreams were dashed.
 
It's more like "ok we can target this price now what do we spend it on"
 
clearly not user's fault
 
I think sketchup is pretty popular. It's Google's modelling thing.
 
I am not saying the printer is perfect
 
> We did everything we could to detangle the filament spool, but short of hand-feeding the machine the plastic, it wasn't going to work.

After four attempts (which, in retrospect, was two attempts too many), we finally decided to switch to a different spool of filament. Later on, a kind representative from MakerBot suggested the same thing.
clearly not user's fault
 
7:43 PM
@Nooble I know what sketchup is. Its files are meant for editing, not production
27 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
I am not saying the printer is perfect
 
> Our final attempt before accepting failure was almost successful. We were ultimately thwarted by the fact that the design we were trying to print was slightly too large for our 3D printer's platform. If we had taken more time, we may have attempted to separate the project into multiple files and then rotated it to fit on the platform.
also clearly inferior software not telling them that it was too big for the printer.
so all I'm saying is, every issue these people encountered is clearly not their own fault in the slightest and it seems like the vendor massively cheaped out and didn't do a good job.
 
software requiring knowledge isn't necessarily bad
@Puppy bullshit
pretty much every issue they've encountered would be solved by RTFM
 
Ven
i'm bored
 
not really.
 
Ven
not sure what to do?
 
7:45 PM
it's the expectation that was fucked up there
 
Ven
code golfing?
 
an expectation that a complex machine will be as easy to use as a coffee maker
 
Not completely sure how 3D printing works, but I think almost every slicer out there cam convert from Sketchup to stl.
 
RTFM isn't a solution, it's a "We fucked up, could you kindly read about how we fucked up and how to work around us fucking up? thanks"
 
user406009
@Ven Read a book?
 
7:45 PM
for some fucking inexplicable reason
 
user406009
Fantasy novels can be quite entertaining.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It could have been in this case, if it wasn't shitty.
 
user1804599
 
Ven
@Lalaland nehj
 
they encountered no difficulties that are inherent to the use of a 3D printer.
 
7:46 PM
@Puppy It was a few-year-old pioneering design
 
they were all failings in the implementation.
 
@Puppy that's clearly BS
 
@BartekBanachewicz Difficult to pioneer anything if you're unusable.
 
How old is that printer?
 
she even said that herself
 
if you're a pioneering implementation, you should actually implement a fucking usable product and prove that your concept works.
 
> I don't want to blame the 3D printer we used
 
that's because terrible software sets terrible expectations.
the 3D printer should only be difficult to use in cases where the use is actually difficult.
and "Here's a file; print it" is not in the slightest.
 
> Mistakes were almost certainly made in our setup process that a more skilled, careful person would not have committed.
@Puppy every 3D print is a difficult case
that's where you're misunderstanding comes in
you're assuming that 3D printing is a straightforward, streamlined process
 
it's irrelevant whether or not it's a straightforward process.
 
7:48 PM
it requires skill
it always did.
 
either the manufacturer succeeded in making it straightforward for the user (which they clearly didn't) or the author's conclusion that it is not ready for the mainstream is fundamentally valid.
their case isn't that it's terrible technology, that it doesn't work or that it's a bad concept
 
the mainstream use is not what I'm arguing here
 
well it's what they were arguing so if you're not arguing that then I have no idea what we're discussing.
non-mainstream users can accept terrible usability if they really need to for some reason (e.g. NASA on ISS)
but it's still fundamentally terrible usability brought on by a poor implementation.
 
My problem is her stance on things
if she actually was a regular user
that bought a product marketed as easy to use
that would be a quite honest testimony
that's clearly not the case here.
And she's trying to leverage her assumed skills and failure as an argument against 3D printers ever seeing mainstream use.
 
Sorry i had to help out parents. Who tf are you to tell me what to do @Ven
 
7:51 PM
> But you know what, the fact that all of those things have to be done to successfully 3D print something proves that this technology is just not ready for regular people.
seems to me like it's a simple "quality of implementation is too low" argument.
 
> But the pipe dream that every house will have a 3D printer that will be one-touch simple — that's not going to happen.
 
which seems to be amply backed up by the problems she encountered (assuming her honesty of course)
 
the only thing she's honest about is that she failed
she didn't say "we finally did it, but the process needs to improve"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which seems perfectly true.
 
> THE EASIEST AND MOST
VERSATILE WAY TO
GET FROM 3D MODEL
TO 3D PRINT
Fifth-generation technology defines
the new standard for ease of use,
quality, and reliability
Powered by the new, user-friendly
MakerBot Replicator 3D Printing
Platform
 
7:53 PM
she failed, and to justify her failure she's trying to discredit the whole idea
 
since the manufacturer completely failed to produce a product that meets that standard
 
@BartekBanachewicz But how else am I going to experiment with cheap toys?
 
the despicable attitude of "I'm smart and I can't figure it out so regular people won't either" is just the icing on the cake
 
the fact that they need to figure out anything is the problem
 
yeah god forbids you actually use your head
 
7:54 PM
well, yes.
 
utilizing a semi-pro tool again
 
if I paid a large sum of money for a 3D printer
 
seriously
 
then I fucking expect it to work
 
@Puppy if you paid $20k for a professional CNC milling machine, and fucked up
 
7:55 PM
if I have to figure out how it should work then what did I pay the makers for?
 
@Puppy for a machine that needs skill to operate
it's that simple really
 
there's no evidence here that the machine actually needs skill to operate.
 
bullshit
8 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
> Mistakes were almost certainly made in our setup process that a more skilled, careful person would not have committed.
 
well, she says that.
but I can't help but notice that there's bugger all to actually back that up.
 
if you read about 3D printing for 5 minutes you're gonna notice that it takes skill
@Puppy what
 
7:56 PM
none of the problems she encountered actually seemed to have anything to do with incompetent usage
 
so you're saying that manufacturers saying that e.g. some inks are harder to print is, what, bullshit?
that it's actually super easy?
 
no
 
@Puppy except most of them would be avoided by RTFM
that's the very definition of incompetent usage
 
that.. is irrelevant.
the manufacturer already fucked up by requiring you to read it in these cases.
 
7:57 PM
ok you're wrong.
4
thanks for the discussion.
 
you just have no concept of what usability actually is or how to achieve it
 
@Morwenn lol
 
My new favourite picture :D
 
there are of course so many developers like you who don't know what usability is
 
In other news I finished reading Assassination Classroom.
 
7:59 PM
and don't even try to produce a usable product.
and then shockingly they have no users!
 
@Puppy The fact that I decided to end the discussion doesn't mean you can or should insult me now.
 

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