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7:00 PM
ISTR that | launches a new shell
 
Does it?
Interesting.
It creates a name scope or something?
 
Fun fact: it works in zsh
 
Why did they revert the new colour highlighting? :(
 
hey, they did
wow I didn't notice when they introduced it, didn't notice when they reverted it
 
7:03 PM
I always found the old style shitty, but apparently people like it more.
 
7:23 PM
sorter_facade::operator() now has 33 overloads.
 
@sehe I wrote a simple PEG parser generator: gist.github.com/orlp/363a4261f6a884311cbbe6a146a3052b
bootstrapped
 
7:42 PM
Apparently some funny stairs in my town are nominated for « France's ugliest public building ».
But I really like them :(
 
how is that a buliding?
 
Excellent question. I was wondering.
Actually, it's officially a work of art.
 
looks cool
 
Ell
I'm not a fan at all personally
they'd be fun to play around
but i don't think they look good
 
I like when stairs lead to nowhere.
A bit like my life.
Still so much better than gigantic statues of not-so-random people.
 
Ven
7:53 PM
>.>
 
<.<
@Ven Are you actually displaying the content of a memory cell in Brianfuck?
 
Ven
@Morwenn of cell -1?
not sure that's defined to be anything
 
Well, if it's toroidal brainfuck, it'll be the value of the last memory cell.
 
Ven
defined :P
 
C'mon :o
> The brainfuck language uses a simple machine model consisting of the program and instruction pointer, as well as an array of at least 30,000 byte cells initialized to zero [...]
Your program will print 0.
Well, if it's toroidal brainfuck at least.
 
Ven
8:01 PM
;)
stackoverflow.com/questions/36924360/… lol a 22k rep guy answered that
 
And another 20k+ guy too.
 
@orlp Somebody built it, therefore it's a building.
 
@JerryCoffin Is my testsuite a building?
 
@Ven I answered a C question not too long time ago
 
Ven
@milleniumbug no but I mean. it's a question that should be deleted
 
8:04 PM
lol wtf Ven?
Possible duplicate of Static readonly vs constVen 1 min ago
 
Ven
ugh
 
@Morwenn Probably. Can't remember the name, but there was a movie years ago where one of the characters talks constantly about how buildings are erected, so they're not really buildings, they're "giant erections".
 
Ven
wrong dupe
 
Ell
@Morwenn I'd rather define memory addresses as integers
 
Ven
i just want it deleted tbh :\
 
8:04 PM
@Morwenn I like hyperdimensional brainfuck
 
@orlp I don't know that one.
 
Ven
@milleniumbug fixed. ty – didn't realize I hit submit
 
^ will rotate the world such that you're pointing in an orthogonal direction (but still in the same cell), v rotates the other way
 
Eh, I just got serial upvoted for no reason. It will be all gone soon enough.
 
Ven
@Morwenn no it won't
also, good reasons
 
8:06 PM
e.g. if you're at position (0, 0), then > moves you to (1, 0), but ^> moves you to (0, 1)
but ^^> moves you to (0, 0, 1), etc
so you can have arbitrary dimensions
 
The fuck o_o
 
Ven
sounds like a cool golfing language :)
 
user1804599
I am really bored.
 
@Ven According to his profile he's mostly a C and Java dev, so I guess he misread and thought that was a C question.
 
8:08 PM
@Ven Java...terrible. What a surprise.
 
user1804599
C has generics. * is generic.
 
I haven't heard much of Java these days.
 
user1804599
I wanna rewrite my COBOL compiler in PureScript.
 
Ven
go ahead
 
user1804599
oh god this code
 
Ven
8:10 PM
hahaha. look at the reviews as well
 
user1804599
for (let workingStorageDataDescriptionEntry
        of definition.workingStorageSection.dataDescriptionEntries) {
    const symbol = new WorkingStorageDataItemSymbol(
        definition.programID.nameAs,
        workingStorageDataDescriptionEntry.name,
        workingStorageDataDescriptionEntry.picture
    );
    scope.set(workingStorageDataDescriptionEntry.name, symbol);
}
 
Ven
yay mutation
instead of collecting the loop iteration's result
 
user1804599
Why do people use WORKING-STORAGE instead of LOCAL-STORAGE so much?
 
user1804599
Cache locality?
 
Ven
??? they don't do the same thing at all
the working storage has the lifetime of your "main" program
the local storage is re-set at each call
get good at cobol, nerd.
 
8:29 PM
I want a LTR named assignment operator in C++
a ||ASSIGN_TO> b; -----> b = a; :D
 
user1804599
I know that.
 
user1804599
Why do you think I don't know that?
 
user1804599
I see people use working storage where local storage would work instead.
 
Ven
@Zoidberg cause your question is stupid
"why did they use an instance variable instead of a local one?"
 
user1804599
??????????????????????????????
 
user1804599
8:36 PM
When I ask about why people use A instead of B so much, I obviously are referring only to those cases where both A and B would result in the same effects and output.
 
a is the first letter in the alphabet duh
 
@Zoidberg Because COBOL programmers and good programmers are nearly disjoint sets.
 
Ell
TIL raw beansprouts are high risk for food poisoning
 
@Ell R.I.P
 
user1804599
> Parametric polymorphism, sometimes called method overlaoding
 
8:42 PM
"malicious code"
 
Ell
lol
 
user1804599
This paragraph in the COBOL standard will never cease to amaze me.
 
delicious code
 
stackoverflow.com/a/1638449/1127972 nearly 1000 upvotes? what is wrong with the js people
 
user1804599
lol you can overload on currency sign in COBOL
 
user1804599
8:47 PM
@doug65536 Uh, nothing? It actually answers the question.
 
user1804599
Always upvote answers that actually answer the question and do it correctly.
 
it is nonsense and you know it I hope
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
user1804599
Function pointers.
 
8:48 PM
nice
 
I'm drunk.
 
@Zoidberg if that answers the question then this clears a vector: std::vector<int> x(10); memset(&x, 0, sizeof(x));
 
user1804599
No, it doesn't.
 
user1804599
It's UB and therefore incorrect.
 
right, just like using attr to set a property of an object
 
8:50 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes gj
 
user1804599
No, that's not UB, and it is correct.
 
no it isn't, you obviously know nothing about jquery
tell me then, what is .attr for?
.attr is for setting attributes on DOM elements
 
@fredoverflow Is there some reason to be inconsistent in your twice instead of just using return f(f(c)); ?
 
user1804599
> Set one or more attributes for the set of matched elements.
 
user1804599
First of all, it doesn't say DOM elements.
 
8:52 PM
@JerryCoffin Just to demonstrate that both syntaxes work.
 
@Zoidberg lol
oh it must have been referring to those "other" elements. what are those again?
 
@doug65536 Why not simply x.clear()?
 
@Zoidberg I know you know better. done feeding troll
@fredoverflow it was an analogy to doing something a ridiculous way that "works"
 
Don't use memset on non-PODs (or whatever the technical term is).
 
@fredoverflow obviously
 
8:55 PM
@fredoverflow Umm...okay, I guess it does that.
@fredoverflow "standard layout".
 
@JerryCoffin You can also write (*f) in the parameter list and &square in the argument list.
The whole thing was a mess to implement because until now, all pointers pointed to objects, but functions aren't objects.
$ git diff @~ | grep "\bif\b" | wc -l
14
Oh boy :)
 
I'd make make functions objects
make function a constant function pointer
 
Wait, half of those ifs were already there before.
 
@milleniumbug doesn't that sort of thing already exist.. std::function ?
 
git diff -U 0 should remove the "context" lines. but ya it is approximate anyway
 
9:02 PM
@JerryCoffin it’s actually trivially copyable lol, the other half from POD
 
@KhaledKhnifer It's a wrapper, yes
 
user406009
Heh, someone actually made an somewhat nice stackless coroutine API: stackless-coroutine.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
 
@doug65536 still 10, apparently :(
 
@KhaledKhnifer But std::is_object<int()>::value == false
 
@LucDanton Oops! Few things worse than trying to be pedantic, and getting it wrong.
 
9:04 PM
@milleniumbug Functions aren't compiled to bytes or anything in my IDE.
@KhaledKhnifer The IDE is not implemented in C++.
 
@fredoverflow Well, you're writing a C compiler so you can't actually change semantics of the code anyway
 
@fredoverflow what language?
 
@milleniumbug In what way would the semantics change with your proposed solution?
Kotlin is a statically-typed programming language that runs on the Java Virtual Machine and also can be compiled to JavaScript source code. Its primary development is from a team of JetBrains programmers based in Saint Petersburg, Russia (the name comes from the Kotlin Island, near St. Petersburg). Kotlin was named Language of the Month in the January 2012 issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal. While not syntax compatible with Java, Kotlin is designed to interoperate with Java code and is reliant on Java code from the existing Java Class Library, such as the collections framework. == History == In July 2011...
I don't like the new logo.
 
@fredoverflow e.g. in Rust a function name refers to a special value unique to that function (i.e. singleton type-style, if that rings a bell), although it is convertible to a function pointer if desired
 
@LucDanton But that value isn't stored in memory, I suppose?
 
9:09 PM
@fredoverflow in the sense there is nothing to store i.e. it’s isomorphic to unit
 
Because if functions are objects and function pointers are ordinary pointers, then the "function special value" must be stored in memory, right?
Otherwise, how would you point to it?
@LucDanton Ah, so the singleton type has no members.
 
function pointers are not ordinary pointers, it follows C here
@fredoverflow indeed
 
@fredoverflow Go from C's void(*)(int) to void(int) and from C's void(int) to void(int) const
 
@LucDanton That insight has me so excited, I'm gonna eat a grapefruit.
 
@fredoverflow if you truly believe in yourself, you should always be up for eating a grapefruit
 
9:12 PM
@fredoverflow recursively!
 
@fredoverflow Since it's const, it doesn't have to be actually stored in memory :D
 
(incidentally some of us have chosen to go the 'ditch functions, use empty function objects instead' route even in the C++ world—okay so it’s just Eric Niebler and myself, but still)
 
@LucDanton I believe in myself so much I'm always up for drinking grape (fruit) juice (fermented, of course).
 
I would drink to that, but I only have water
 
user1804599
lex :: String -> Either LexError (List Token)
lex =     discardCarriageReturns
      >>> discardSequenceNumberArea
      >>> discardIndicators
      >>> (>>= lex')
 
user1804599
9:16 PM
Great code.
 
@Zoidberg Haksell ?
 
@LucDanton Living in France, and you only have water? There's something seriously wrong with this picture...
 
@JerryCoffin and in Bordeaux of all places
 
@LucDanton You should be ashamed of yourself. You are hereby sentenced to get two bottles of Petrus. Drink one, and send the other to me. :-)
Oh: be sure and have a really good dinner with it!
 
noted
 
9:25 PM
@StackedCrooked Your link to tetris-challenge on your profile page is dead
 
@Zoidberg Will you ever stop writing compilers? ;)
 
user406009
@fredoverflow Clearly, he just needs one compiler: the compiler-compiler, and then rightfold will be done!
 
@fredoverflow Maybe if he actually finished one, he'd be in a better position to stop...
@Lalaland But he doesn't use yacc for his compilers.
 
Feb 1 at 21:16, by milleniumbug
@ElimGarak programming language generator framework
 
@JerryCoffin Is yacc still a thing? Hasn't everybody converted to ANTLR by now? ;)
 
9:29 PM
Today is the 227th anniversary of the HMS Bounty mutiny.
It's also my birthday.
 
@fredoverflow I doubt much of anybody uses Steve Johnson's original yacc any more, but I'd guess ones that accept yacc-like inputs (e.g., Bison, byacc) are used more than antlr. I never saw much advantage to antlr.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Robots aren't born, silly!
 
29th, not 227th.
This is awesome.
I love the story of the Bounty.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Happy Birthday! Shouldn't you be partying instead of hanging out here?
 
Party's tomorrow.
I have to rest.
Doctor's orders.
 
9:32 PM
Another pointless concoction. (I forgot what I was trying to achieve..)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Start now, party through Sunday. You're still under 30--you don't need rest yet.
 
So I share a birthday with Sir Terry Pratchett and the HMS Bounty mutiny. Awesome.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Restful party?
 
@StackedCrooked Is there a reason you wouldn't use the offsetof macro for this?
 
@StackedCrooked I'm assuming offsetof at compile time?
 
9:33 PM
@JerryCoffin It's a macro
 
Dunno if offsetof can work at compile time
 
Well. Yeah, I wanted compile time constants.
But I probably don't really need that.
Since the result of offsetoff is also known by the compiler and will be inlined.
 
@StackedCrooked offsetof expands to an integer constant expression (i.e., a compile time constant).
 
It's a pity it doesn't return an integral constant.
I mean, usable as e.g template argument.
 
9:37 PM
@StackedCrooked C11, §7.19/3. It does.
 
It does?
Oh, C11. Good enough for me :P
 
@JerryCoffin I want my chest pain gone.
It's pretty much gone, but I really want it gone.
It's scary as fuck.
 
user1804599
 
@StackedCrooked Yes, it does. That's the section number from C11, but I'm pretty sure the requirement was the same all the way back to C89.
 
lol
Best depiction of Italy I've ever seen
 
9:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, okay. I guess I can understand that. Then again, alcohol helps you relax, right?
 
I suppose the implementation of offsetof requires compiler magic then. Don't think it can be implemented in user code.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You have chest pain?
 
@StackedCrooked The "common implementation" actually invokes UB by dereferencing nullptr, so yeah, it can't
 
@BartekBanachewicz What were the arguments?
 
It has to be compiler magic
 
9:45 PM
#define offsetof(TYPE, MEMBER) __builtin_offsetof (TYPE, MEMBER)
Aha.
 
I think MSVC's one is equivalent to the "common implementation" one
 
@StackedCrooked Not in code that's technically portable, no. Most compilers will allow it anyway though. It's usually something like: #define offsetof(t, m) ((size_t)&(((t *)0)->m)).
 
I had seen that definition before.
I thought it was still implemented that way.
 
yeah, this is what I meant by "common implementation"
 
I learned. I suppose posting my silly code was not entirely useless then :)
 
9:47 PM
@StackedCrooked How it's implemented is up to the compiler (or, technically, the library author). That does produce a compile-time constant though.
 
the benefit of the gcc's implementation is that it's able to fail compilation with types of non-trivial layout
 
@JerryCoffin Cool.
But it still can't be used in constexpr functions I think.
 
It operates purely on the typesystem so I can't see why not
 
I mean the "common" implementation.
 
@milleniumbug Is generating an address really dereferencing? On real hardware it is defined
 
9:51 PM
Since it performs a cast.
 
@doug65536 Not all real hardware. Also, nobody cares about that, because UB is UB is death.
 
@StackedCrooked The downside is that it's technically UB, at least in C++ (probably not in current C though). The -> implies dereferencing a null pointer. C basically says that &*x produces an unevaluated context (without using that language) so even with a null pointer, it's kosher. C++ doesn't say that, so it's technically UB, even though I doubt any compiler will produce code to do any dereferencing.
 
@Shoe something something it's an association to your person and that could be used by someone
 
@Puppy can you give an example architecture?
 
no, but I know that they exist.
 
9:52 PM
I like how I'm dominating the starboard though
 
accessing the address computed is definitely ub. but computing an address cant be ub can it?
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, I wonder kind of assembly instruction could even be generated from &*p. There's no read. And no destination.
 
@JerryCoffin that’s quite a leap from &*x to &x->member though :)
 
@doug65536 UB is a standard term, if you talk in implementations there's no UB there (if you mean C++ UB there)
 
@StackedCrooked None, with any compiler I've ever seen.
 
9:53 PM
UB is a lawyery thingy meaning "your warranty is void if you do this"
 
@milleniumbug unless it's a very shitty implementation
 
@Puppy Had it for a week. Cartillage inflammation.
 
@LucDanton x->y == (*x).y. Looks more like walking off a curb than any large leap.
 
@LucDanton &x->member is also (*x).member
 
again, it’s quite a leap from &*x to &((*x).member)
syntax is immaterial
 
9:55 PM
UB means no requirement for the compiler. (I think saying it like this best way to explain UB. No need for silly analogies :)
 
ok then it is "defined" to do int dummy; std::size_t ofs = std::uintptr_t(&((S*)&dummy)->member) - std::uintptr_t(&dummy); it is even more ridiculous than nullptr base address
 
This is why we need compile time reflection :)
 
@doug65536 I wouldn't bet on that.
 
of course you wouldn't, you could use the library implementation, which almost certainly uses UB, right? realistically.
 
10:01 PM
yeah
probably uses UB in its implementation, right?
 
which library doesnt use ub?
 
GCC and clang use a builtin
 
implementations are always UB-free.
 
No tricks.
 
10:02 PM
Since it's standard, it's blessed so it doesn't give a fuck about UB
 
by definition, more or less.
 
I am not saying any ub is okay. I am saying, people see the library do stuff and it seems okay to do it themselves then, even if it is some old thing some old compiler did (UB)
 
A standard library implementation provided by a compiler can take some liberties I guess. Just need to make sure the implementation is ..er implementation defined.
 
the Standard library implementation is always under special rules.
you can't extrapolate.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know my offsetof is the naive way to do it, but I've seen really old compilers literally do just that
so that may explain why people want to keep going with hacks like that
 
10:05 PM
Like libstdc++'s std::less<T> uses operator<, even for pointers. Which would be UB in certain cases.
@doug65536 Also the fact that C allows it.
 
@doug65536 There's a reason they dropped it.
It's because they broke their own implementation.
 
10:25 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes For C++, you just about need to, regardless. Just for example, a class can overload operator&, in which case a macro that expands to using & on an instance of the class is nearly guaranteed to do the wrong thing.
 
"Why is this build taking forever???" I sat here wondering. Oh. Apparently instead of building just one DLL I started building the entire OS
lol
 
rofl
 
10:39 PM
@Borgleader AHH YOU DIDN'T TELL ME THE ASUS CAME WITH THE SHITTY STYLE OF CHARGER
 
@ThePhD What?
 
THE ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE THOSEOLD AC ADAPTERS THAT IF YOU HIT TI OR SOMETHING IT'LL BREAK 100% AAAHH
By the way my new laptop is here
AAAAH
 
@JerryCoffin lol I wonder now if MSVC's implementation is conforming
 
@ThePhD The only thing you have to watch out for is the pin on the actual laptop, the charger itself is fine
 
10:42 PM
@Borgleader That's always the first to go. q_q
 
@ThePhD Mine lasted 4 years before I snapped it by accident
and really it was my fault
 
You're a creature of handsome grace.
I am a monster. I need sturdy things.
 
Try @Zoidberg's cock
 
10:55 PM
@Griwes Least funny thing I read all day
 
@Columbo phew
 
@Griwes I mean, don't get me wrong, but when is the last time you really laughed at something in the internet
Like, not breathed through your nose a bit more
 
today
 
Today, I'm old and bitter, but not old and bitter enough to be unable to laff
 
@milleniumbug I believe it is--it casts to const volatile char * first, so overloaded operators won't be used/applied.
@набиячлэвэлиь Old meaning almost....25?
 
11:07 PM
well yes technically I'm almost 25
despite being almost 10 years younger than that
 
@JerryCoffin that can trigger conv ops, the addressof way is to reinterpret_cast<char const volatile&>(arg)
 
std::addressof exists because someone thought it would be a nice idea to provide possibility to overload operator&
 
@LucDanton Oops--I didn't read carefully enough. It is a cast to reference, not pointer. (size_t)( (ptrdiff_t)&reinterpret_cast<const volatile char&>((((s *)0)->m)) ) to be complete.
 
@milleniumbug And, better yet, make it return the wrong tyep
 
void operator&() { } // sure why not
 
11:11 PM
I can totally see Boost doing that to make sth look pretty 'n' shit
 
@milleniumbug Not really thought it would be a nice idea to allow it--more like recognized that it was already allowed, and it might be nice to have code still work when somebody took advantage of that.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, your statement is just as valid :)
if that person thought otherwise and didn't allow operator& to be overloaded, std::addressof wouldn't exist obviously.
 
kan we get modans for see puls pluz finalyy plz
 
@ScarletAmaranth Re:ZERO is ...engaging. cc @Xeo @Mysticial
 
@StackedCrooked Re:ZERO?
 
11:16 PM
For some reason it made me remember the movie "Lost Highway". (Even though it's not like that at all.)
@ScarletAmaranth Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu
 
sometimes I feel like they are competing to make the most ridiculous show title
so far, to me, the Kanojo ga flagu no oratera is winning, just because it seems like a random assortment of words to me
 
Starting from scratch is every software developers' dream.
 
@milleniumbug Sure--point is that operator& could be overloaded since C++98 (and before), but addressof wasn't added until C++11.
 
11:32 PM
@JerryCoffin fun fact: offsetof(…) being a valid constant expression is incompatible with reinterpret_cast, more fuel for the builtin fire
in turn because there is a need for a constexpr std::addressof that one is also nearing builtin status
thankfully that means no arcane special rules any more for optional (since you need to take the address for operator->, and it's meant to be a literal type when possible)
 
@LucDanton Hmm...I'm not sure that's true, as long as we're talking about something that's in the library (i.e., part of the implementation). There's no guarantee to you that you can use reinterpret_cast in a constant expression, but I can't see anything that prohibits the compiler from letting it work.
 
5.20/2 lists all the prohibitions, with the relevant bullet point being (2.13)
 
Bottom line: you can't write offsetof yourself, but the implementation can do ugly things you can't, because it's not required to be portable.
 
> — a reinterpret_cast (5.2.10);
 
@LucDanton why
 
11:39 PM
so sure an implementation can choose to detect that a particular reinterpret_cast is being used for its own needs—that’s a builtin by any other name though, although out of reach of mere users
 
@LucDanton You're misunderstanding what I'm saying: you're not allowed to assume that a reinterpret_cast produces a constant expression. But the compiler author can have it produce a value that's known at compile time (at least under some circumstances), and the rest of the implementation can take advantage of that if it so chooses.
 
yeah but that’s no reinterpret_cast
that would be __reinterpret_cast in better clothes
 
@LucDanton Oh nonsense. It's a perfectly legitimate implementation of reinterpret_cast, that happens to provide some guarantees above and beyond what the standard requires.
 
@JerryCoffin keep in mind expression SFINAE allows to peer through a lot of things, so the 'it's fine as long it's not observable' excuse can be harder to pull off than it seems
I’m not terribly sure how we can make that work here though
@JerryCoffin like that, although I doubt that's a valid program tbh
 
@LucDanton Well, I suppose it's possible SFINAE might provide some way to make this observable. I'm certainly not going to try to prove it's impossible (proving a negative being the way it is).
 
11:51 PM
@LucDanton XIII was arguably one of the top guilds a couple years back
 
top at what
 
renowned for their trashy attitude
I forgot exactly but they were annoying
Mind you this is perhaps a completely different one
 
> If an operand of an operator is a type-dependent expression, the operator also denotes a dependent name.
@JerryCoffin that's convincing enough for me
I'll admit it’s a blatant under-specification since type/value dependence is for user-defined things but it just says 'operator' and I'm feeling like being under-handed right now :)
 
Can't see.
 
11:57 PM
(joking aside it’s a good opportunity for me to check out the formal rules on those things, which I'm not super familiar with even though I rely on it a lot of the time, cherry-picking quotes for my benefit in this discussion is a bonus)
 
@ThePhD neither can I, I caught it before deletion
it was amazing
 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36924398/c-homework-can-you-help-for-my-friend-its-not-my-homework
/cc @Mysticial (thx @jaggedSpire for sharing)
 
@ScarletAmaranth Damn. Just saw ep 3. God damn.
 
@jaggedSpire I showed this to my friend and he laughed a lot
 
Luckily I just realized ep4 is already available.
 
11:59 PM
@LucDanton Hmmm...given that VC++ disagrees with Clang and gcc on it, I'm tempted to file this as a bug and see if MS can give a solid explanation about their implementation being allowed.
 
Someone screenshot it for us plebs. ;~;
 
@LucDanton understandable, so did I
 
Bwaargh.
 
in five years we’ll see the same but with 'NO stackoverflow' in the notes
 
They installed Windows 10 Home edition on this thing.
 
11:59 PM
@Borgleader np <3
 
I'm going to install Windows 7, and then upgrade to Windows 10 Pro.
 

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