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11:00 PM
@ReousaAsteron um what did you think it meant though
 
@JerryCoffin ...with The French
 
@VermillionAzure I read the tour and it looked like it's similiar to SO in many ways, except it's for reviews...
 
I realized that a friend of mine now works in Wroclaw.
 
Is his name Michał Dominiak
What a turn of events that'd be
 
Not even close.
@jaggedSpire Hey <3
 
11:02 PM
@ReousaAsteron oh that's what you meant
But still
 
@Morwenn you can't into typing, can you
 
@Morwenn hey <3
 
@ReousaAsteron what’s next, something similar to SO in many ways but for maths? or physics? can you imagine
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I can't into cheking autocompletion before posting.
 
@LucDanton gasp
 
11:03 PM
@LucDanton :D
 
@ReousaAsteron Oh, you mean CodeReview.SE? That's mostly just the blind leading the blind. Nobody who writes reviews there actually knows how to code.
 
@JerryCoffin Why are you stabbing your self-esteem so hard? :o
 
Well I'm 75% done with my dungeon crawl :D
I never imagined it'd be this useful planning things on paper first
 
@Morwenn My self esteem is impenetrable. When something seems simultaneously mean and funny, using myself as the butt of the joke lets me laugh without feeling guilty.
 
@ReousaAsteron in what
 
11:08 PM
> using myself as the butt
 
@VermillionAzure Huh?
 
Added a more typical AST approach using boost::variant as another answersehe 17 secs ago
It's been a while since I slammed a Spirit answer
 
@ReousaAsteron what langauge, tools, etc...
 
Perhaps I should do the X3 variation as well
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Yea, that :D
 
11:09 PM
@VermillionAzure Oh it's some sort of training, I'm still a beginner. Only using CodeBlocks (C++) for now, console game.
 
@ReousaAsteron oh
No curses?
 
But, if we're being serious for a moment: some of the people there definitely are good coders. I could be biased--for example, Edward and I know each other from former lives, so to speak, but I still think he's a really good coder.
 
@VermillionAzure I have a TicTacToe with a very stupid AI though.
 
@sehe y'know is it just me or is boost super fat
@ReousaAsteron what do you mean
 
11:10 PM
@ReousaAsteron can it win?
 
@VermillionAzure No clue what that would mean
 
@sehe as in bloated and yuge
 
It's just you. Next.
 
@StackedCrooked Not really, it's programmed to just block you off, even if it can win in the next move. I'll give it the ability to win later though. :D
 
@sehe maybe it's the pretty names that throw me off like pheonix and qi
 
11:10 PM
@VermillionAzure TicTacToe game with a stupid AI for an enemy
 
@VermillionAzure It's just enough for the scope of the problems it tackles
 
@ReousaAsteron yeah do you have the code on GH
 
You want to know huge and bloated? Try Qt. Or Wx. Or Poco. Or gnome. Or KDE. Or whatever
 
@VermillionAzure Nope, haven't made a GH account yet, also the code is horrible compared to the one im making right now
 
@sehe I know that's why C++ GUI is kind of bad comp to web...
 
11:12 PM
PoCo and Qt aren't GUI frameworks
 
QtGui is though
 
@StackedCrooked Surprisingly enjoyable :o
 
Also. "comp to web"?!?!? Because... obviously C++ rocks for web... LOL
 
@Morwenn I listened to this a lot back in 2007-2008.
 
The Silicon C++ Web Framework - The Silicon C++ Web Framework http://siliconframework.org/
 
For some reason I listened to mostly Canadian indie.
 
@StackedCrooked I was probably still listening to symphonic metal back then.
 
@sehe But you know what I mean
 
11:15 PM
However, QListView sucks because list views suck.
 
somehow GUI is super complicated in a lot of places except for web
 
@VermillionAzure Are just nagging me until I say what you want to hear?
 
@sehe Too Spiritual for me. Please stop overloading operators and let me use strings for once, thx
 
Strings. Operators. Dunno which is worse
 
@sehe eh i dunno
 
11:16 PM
I prefer strings meself
 
@VermillionAzure The CSS holy grail layout requires advanced tricks. I don't find that easy. And it should be the most trivial thing ever.
 
@sehe I don't think "bloated" is really the right word to describe most of them either. Their goals are certainly different, and they certainly contain a lot of code, but the code is there for a reason.
 
Using Poco or Qt feels much more bloated. As in runtime bloated
 
@StackedCrooked Let's simplify both sides: "However, Q sucks because suck". The resulting sentence doesn't make sense, therefore your argument is invalid.
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah that's true. Sigh...
 
11:17 PM
POST / _hello / _id[int()] // Url parameter
   * get_parameters(_name) // GET parameter
   * post_parameters(_age = int()) // POST parameter

   = [] (auto p) // p holds the 3 typed parameters
   {
     std::ostringstream ss;
     ss << p.name << p.age << p.id;
     return ss.str();
   }
 
Since QListView is element of a collection of suck it is also suck.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь argh
 
@milleniumbug what happened
 
@milleniumbug Operator overzealing.
 
@VermillionAzure it's the example of the "Silicon C++ Web Framework" posted above
 
11:18 PM
But where are the user-defined infix operators?
 
@Morwenn I usually call this "operator overlording"
10
 
@Morwenn In Snobol (and ML).
 
nice
 
@JerryCoffin No, I mean we have tricks to use them in C++, why isn't this framework using them? :o
 
@milleniumbug Is that an argh of agreement or disagreement
 
11:21 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь 'argh' was directed to the sample usage
 
@Morwenn Oh, I thought you meant the ability to define something define operator dot_product { ... }; Matrix Z = X dot_product Y;
 
@Morwenn oh you should see R-style explitcit infix
 
Xeo
Halp. I've wandered into the rabbit hole of chinese Windows tablets.
 
> a %>% b %+% c
 
11:22 PM
@JerryCoffin Matrix Z = X <dot_product> Y; works fine.
 
@Xeo Don't buy a chinese tablet
 
maybe Lisp has the best approach
 
I bought one and I regret it
 
prefix everywhere
 
@VermillionAzure No, it doesn't.
 
11:23 PM
Maybe your mom has the right approach
Gigantic everywhere
 
@JerryCoffin why do you think so? just curious
i thought lisp has a very straight-forward and standard syntax compared to many languages (though ?ugly?)
 
@VermillionAzure Because although uniformity is nice, readability is nicer, and it sacrifices readability for uniformity.
 
Xeo
@milleniumbug Regret how exactly?
 
@JerryCoffin I think infix is possible for Racket too through a library so it's not too bad
Together I guess you can have: @${ A * B ( 2 + C ) }
 
@Xeo Specs weren't bad, but it was ruined by what I assume were hardware drivers, locking up the device sometimes for 20 seconds if you use any of: Wi-Fi, 3G, Bluetooth
 
11:29 PM
@VermillionAzure Presumably you intended to have another operator before the opening parenthesis?
 
Xeo
@milleniumbug owch
 
I'm going to sleep.
 
@Morwenn Sleep well.
 
@JerryCoffin I guess yeah but the point is that maybe it's should be possible
 
@Morwenn night <3
 
11:30 PM
@Xeo Don't buy a windows tablet /cc @milleniumbug
 
@jaggedSpire @JerryCoffin Thanks :)
 
Mine was a Android ARM tablet, but I assume Chinese Windows x86 tablets would have the same issues
It's the same chip maker (Rockchip)
 
Xeo
@milleniumbug it's actually intel chips (Atom and Core M)
 
well, there may be hope then
 
I won't have time - right now - to write it up here, but I've previously figured it out in these streams: livecoding.tv/sehe/playlists/RJvnR-spirit-x3-tinkering I think it's in episode #1-3. Sorry it's so slow, I too, had to work from the samples and library code :) — sehe 6 secs ago
 
11:34 PM
still, get one with good reputation and with decent third-party support
 
I might have to do a canonical AST-annotation/error handling combi for X3
 
nwp
@sehe wow, you look like an ice bear IRL
 
@VermillionAzure It's undoubtedly possible--I've seen sets of macros and such to do similar before--but to be really useful, I think it would have to be standardized and spread widely enough that everybody who knows Racket would immediately know it, have references available, etc. Otherwise, you almost inevitably end up with "normal" code mixed with this EDSL, so you've given up uniformity and you're still stuck with a fair amount of unreadable code anyway.
 
not sure whether flattered or...
 
nwp
you should be flattered
and get glasses for your profile picture :D
 
11:38 PM
Well, I'm off to sleep
Gonna finish it tomorrow
You all have a good night c:
 
Xeo
I'm just kinda in a dilemma right now. I want two things basically, a laptop-ish device to code and do more desktop-y stuff on while traveling, and a small 8" tablet to read VNs and just browse n stuff on the go
or in bed
 
@nwp ;)
@ReousaAsteron Sleep well
 
@Xeo still on this :/
 
Xeo
yeee
I'm bad at deciding okay
 
is any of this in your budget
 
11:41 PM
@JerryCoffin yup
 
Xeo
I got enough money saved up, ye
 
@JerryCoffin I wonder if there's a way to design a language to make it more usable using proven psychological concepts
 
@VermillionAzure Probably--at least it's hard to imagine that it could lead to anything much less usable than what we currently have. :-|
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah this is actually an area I might want to do research on in the future
 
Xeo
Programming languages aren't "usable", they're "bearable".
4
 
11:43 PM
@Xeo cc @sehe
 
They aren't usable. They're applicable
 
Xeo
@LucDanton also, it's not super expensive, really. Unless I suddenly decide to splurge on a Surface 4 Pro or something.
 
@Xeo ...Buy a surface pro?
 
@Xeo m8 I’m making fun of your past financial woes
 
hey guys
 
11:47 PM
We're all under the desks
We know what happens when people barge in like that
Hi :)
 
^^
 
@JanUlrich Hay. ...or straw...or maybe oats.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Your memory is clearly better than mine, cuz I can't remember what you're talking about.
 
It was that bad
 
C++ is fast? right?
 
11:50 PM
Nope
 
ah well that explains a lot
 
Xeo
yesnomaybe
 
@Xeo I think he's really talking about your parents' financial woes.
 
dang! knew it!
 
It's a programming language. It's a very slow one at that, because it's hard to do right and takes ages to compile
 
Xeo
11:50 PM
@JerryCoffin that might make more sense
 
I need a simple guy on a Linux (X11)
 
But if you mean that, when used right, it can be used to do high-performance implementations of shit, then, yes
 
a simple GUI
 
@JerryCoffin no I aren’t
 
@JanUlrich Hehe. Use Python. Or so. Why c++?
 
11:51 PM
@sehe Damn. I guess I mist still be doing it wrong, 'cause it seems pretty easy (for a lot of stuff) to me.
 
and Java Swing is neither bearable nor fast
 
Xeo
@LucDanton care to enlighten me then?
 
@JerryCoffin The expert distortion field.
 
@sehe it should run stable
 
@JerryCoffin The concert pianist thinks Brahms sonatas are pretty playable
@JanUlrich Use Python with Qt or so.
 
11:53 PM
when programming python this thing crashes on runtime like every 5 mins
 
What makes you think you can do better in C++? The odds are stacked the other way
After all it's a simple GUI.
 
isn't C++ strictly typed?
 
Yes. But it's fraught with perils from its C legacy (sue the bastards)
 
GUI that reads and displays input it gets over UDP network XD
 
You don't wanna get involved unless you know your shit. And have a lot of time.
 
11:55 PM
is there a bearable java GUI framework?
 
@JanUlrich It's statically typed anyway. The type system isn't nearly as strict as some others though.
 
@JanUlrich You might consider C# with Gtk# or so.
 
I learned C++ as my second language because I didn't know any better
 
@JanUlrich There might be, but Swing is so pervasive, I'm afraid the rest is niche by definition
 
@JanUlrich The only bearable thing about Java is that it uninstalls fairly cleanly.
 
11:56 PM
@JerryCoffin harhar
 
@JerryCoffin Except for the adware
 
After learning Pascal I was impressed with C++ being so terse in comparsion
 
@sehe Yeah, if you miss un-checking that check box, you might as well format the hard drive and start over...
 
@milleniumbug I had that fling with Perl
 
@JanUlrich Have you tried doing the web GUI route
 
11:58 PM
@VermillionAzure what do you mean? node.js?
 
@Xeo I had a particular occurrence in mind where there were many things you wanted a given month (lots of releases? I forget) but I can’t track it
 
@JanUlrich Well, I mean going for the classic Bootstrap + backend route and then going from there, paired with a bit of JS or something
I believe if you can find a reactive framework that's fast enough you can get some mileage out of that
 
@sehe Which concert pianist is that?
 
Cinch has found a new hammer. Are you writing Boostrap+Angular tutorials now?
@JerryCoffin All of them
 
it's a raspberry pi. This think hardly runs a browser with an empty webpage
 

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