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3:00 PM
The closest thing to a VN I've played is Ace Attorney
those games were awesome
 
user406009
I've played some story oriented games before.
 
user406009
SOMA is a masterpiece.
 
Ven
uuh, kqueue_reactor inside boost::asio seems very unhappy on os x...
 
@Borgleader hey that's a nice laptop.
 
user406009
The problem with those types of games is the same problem as with anime and manga.
 
Ven
3:02 PM
@sehe ^ does this ring any bell?
 
That's the game by the Amenesia folks right?
 
user406009
Novels have better plots.
 
Xeo
My biggest gripe with windows tablets is that I can't seem to find one with a proper resolution and nice components for under 500eur
 
@Lalaland Lets not compare VNs to SOMA though :P
 
and a lot cheaper than the XPS15
 
user406009
3:02 PM
And at the end of the day, the plot is what actually matters.
 
Ven
The best VN there exists is the Starcraft 2 VN.
 
Yeah but Novels don't ever give you choice
 
Xeo
and over 500 I can easily get a notebook, which I don't really want, since I wanna laze around at home with the tablet in hand, really
 
Ell
I need a game like pokemon to play on my pc
 
user406009
Eh, I could care less about choice.
 
Ell
3:03 PM
any recommendations?
 
user406009
Novels plot's are just so much better most of the time.
 
Xeo
@Prismatic wut
 
@Xeo MS' surface things are expensive, right
 
Ell
like something to grind
 
Xeo
@melak47 ye
They'd be the nicest choice, but dat price
 
3:03 PM
@Ell run pokemon on emulator duh
 
@Xeo Like story-based games often let you choose what you do and change the story accordingly. There are multiple endings sometimes, etc.
 
Ell
@milleniumbug I want something different
 
Xeo
@Prismatic Oh, were you talking about offline, like, book novels?
 
earthbound
it's also a jRPG
 
@Xeo Yeah
 
Xeo
3:04 PM
right-o, then.
Ignore the "wut" :P
 
user406009
@Xeo You could try for an android tablet + keyboard. Like the Asus Transformers.
 
user406009
I own one and it works well for light tasks.
 
user406009
Doesn't really fit the coding requirement though.
 
Xeo
I've been thinking about getting this thing, but again, ugh want tablet in hand
14 mins ago, by Xeo
Eh, I need Windows
 
Are there any Surface-like devices that turn into a tablet that meet your budget
 
Xeo
3:06 PM
convertibles / 2-in-1s, ye oh, fitting my budget... still looking :/
 
@milleniumbug Oh, it's much more than that.
 
> Returns 1 if the value at the given acceptable index is a string or a number (which is always convertible to a string), and 0 otherwise.
muh strict typing
 
It's one of the most important cultural artifacts ever conceived.
 
I dunno about tablets being that much nicer to 'laze around' with
 
user406009
@Prismatic They are. When you are in bed they are nice.
 
3:07 PM
If you have a light notebook and you're sitting upright its pretty much the same thing
 
Ven
(lldb) p &mutex_
(pthread_mutex_t *) $1 = 0x0000000000000030
 
@ThePhD what's this, the description of is_stringish?
 
user406009
Sitting upright sorta sucks though.
 
Ven
that doesn't sound very good at all. does it?
 
@melak47 lua_isstring
 
3:07 PM
:D
 
user406009
@Ven I think that's actually an invalid address in Linux.
 
Turns out there's no way in the API to distinguish if something's a string versus a number.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I've played it twice and I liked it much, I just didn't want to introduce much hype with my recommendation.
 
I can't use tablets in bed. I've tried to use them for reading at night but its too uncomfortable for me... I have to be upright
 
Well, you check if it's a number, then check if it's a string, but that's 2 API calls so the lua API can go fuck itself.
 
user406009
3:08 PM
@Prismatic Have you ever considered an ebook reader?
 
user406009
Sometimes the eink is better.
 
Ven
@Lalaland would explain the EXC_BAD_ACCESS :P
 
Xeo
@Prismatic I love using my Nexus in bed
but... Android :<
 
Its not the display that made it uncomfortable, just holding it
 
user406009
@Xeo There are android games and browsers.
 
user406009
3:08 PM
The main issue is you would have to give up the coding.
 
Xeo
Sorry, not budging on my Windows point
 
user406009
Yeah, that's understandable.
 
Xeo
I need Windows for VNs, they generally don't run anywhere else
 
Ell
@xeo what screen size do you want?
 
Xeo
@Ell I was thinking ~10"
not too big
 
3:09 PM
... Ten inches?
Cmon, you can go bigger. :<
5
 
user406009
@Xeo Just VNC into your windows desktop from your tablet! (/s of course)
 
Ell
11"
but £550
 
Xeo
> Starting at £549.99
yeaaaah... no
 
My code says im fucking up the references although they're all fine
 
user1804599
3:11 PM
@Ven null pointer + offset
 
Xeo
Also doesn't seem to have a detachable keyboard, just rotate-around-able
 
@ReousaAsteron clearly they aren't :D
 
Ell
they look p cool though
@BartekBanachewicz had a yoga
 
@ReousaAsteron well, they clearly aren't or linker wouldn't complain
 
Ven
@Zoidberg no. I'm printing &x.
 
3:12 PM
It's like 10 lines of code... everything's fine I double checked T.T
 
user406009
@ReousaAsteron If it's 10 lines, post it to corilu and then post the link here.
 
@ReousaAsteron computer says no
 
Xeo
4GB ram would be awesome, but I can never find that
 
user406009
 
3:13 PM
@Xeo < 4GB is still a thing? :/
in windows tablets?
 
Xeo
for tablets, unfortunately ye :<
 
Ell
@Xeo will that processor play any games? :P
 
Xeo
@Ell Should be good enough for VNs
 
@melak47 with influx of cheap-ass Rockchip x86 tablets, yes, yes, yes, and very much yes
 
Xeo
and some older JRPGs
 
3:14 PM
@milleniumbug ugh.
 
@melak47 ikr
 
@Lalaland They're 3 different files tho o-o
 
@ReousaAsteron so play preprocessor
or create the files with bash if you must :p
 
user406009
@ReousaAsteron Just post three separate snippets to corilu.
 
Aight
 
user406009
3:18 PM
@Prismatic For interest's sake, how are you doing kerning in your text rendering?
 
user406009
I'm thinking of adding better text to my geam.
 
I'm not
 
main.cpp http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/e2806264990823fb

GameGrid.h http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/cc6a8ee23c4c4179

GameGrid.cpp http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/9d36b9f2795ffbff
 
:p
 
user406009
:(
 
3:20 PM
I just tell harfbuzz to do the shaping and it gives me the final glyph positions. I haven't enabled kerning explicitly so I don't think its done... unless harfbuzz does it automagically
 
user406009
@ReousaAsteron That's correct. You might be compiling it wrong?
 
user406009
How are you compiling it and what's your exact error message?
 
> Sie sparen: EUR 300,00
 
@ReousaAsteron and the problem is?
 
3:23 PM
LearnCPP\DungeonCrawl\main.cpp|7|undefined reference to `GameGrid::GameGrid()'|
 
@ReousaAsteron how are you compiling it?
 
user406009
Yeah, you are probably compiling it incorrectly? What's your setup?
 
I haven't changed anything in the compiler, just compiling it like every other program I've compiled
 
IDE, makefile, by hand?
 
IDE, CodeBlocks
 
Xeo
3:23 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, same price as the 4GB variant now, actually :D
 
guess you've been code blocked :p
6
 
-Applies ice to burnt area-
:D
 
your file must be in the project, and must be listed in the sources
 
.-.
That does not deserve stars.
 
@milleniumbug it is, everything looks fine xD. IDE could be derping idek
 
3:25 PM
do a full rebuild
clean, build
 
@ThePhD don't be jealous~~
 
@Lalaland It would make sense that Harfbuzz takes care of kerning actually... it is a shaping lib after all
 
@milleniumbug tried everything
 
@melak47 I meant the thing I said that was starred. (I starred yours.)
 
oh :D
 
Ell
3:27 PM
@ReousaAsteron do it manually
 
RIP std::tie( a, b ) = proxy_returning_func( 1, 2 );
 
Imma try redoing teh whole project
 
I'm gonna have to do some shenanigans.
 
does code::blocks have a notion of excluding files like VS?
maybe you did that accidentally :/
 
I fixed it
 
3:34 PM
we knew you could do it
 
Weirdly enough, unchecking and checking the compile/link checkboxes fixed it
I guess something was bugged out
@_@
@melak47 Thanks for the trust :P
Do you guys use the variants of intxx_t in place of normal int when coding?
 
@Ven yes in fact it does. ISTR it was "their fault". But I'm not sure on details. I only remembered it as "Boost Asio might not always port without a hitch to OSX"
 
@ReousaAsteron No
 
Also, OSX peddles it's own async framework for c++ IIRC
@ReousaAsteron yes.
I really don't write int at all unless I basically know it's <~1024 or so
 
I understand it's better to do so as int is different between OSes/archs yeah?
 
3:40 PM
Is what I think. I usually write size_t. I rarely need much signedness, but in that case I usually get the info from some source (like a db/[parsed input) and I just keep the input fidelity. I'll scale up when required (e.g. when I have several known int32_t inputs, and my calculations involve multiplications then I'll usually allocate int64_t to store the results)
 
@sehe Mhmm, thanks c:
 
Basically. Apply common sense. But don't be a "C deadbeet" and mindless use int all the time
 
I use int by default
Conversions are annoying
 
Conversions have nothing to do with it
 
There's boost::numeric_cast for conversions, which can be helpful
 
3:43 PM
They're implicit anyways
 
@sehe I've been using int only in loops so far, the rest I assign the intxx_t variants, usually int16 since im always working with low numbers
 
Ven
@sehe sad me :[
well, I thought the reason in the meantime. std::terminate().
 
This is my whole point: if the input is 32bit (e.g. you parsed it) yo must store it as such to be sane. And then you keep using the correct capacities because you avoid converting
@ReousaAsteron Are you anticipating negative loop revolutions?
 
@ReousaAsteron My opinion is that if you're using the specifically sized variants for non-ABI-purposes (like "they're low numbers"), you're likely doing it wrong.
 
3:45 PM
IOW let intXX_t be for serialization/deserialization
 
Where else do you get your integral values
 
Xeo
Siiigh, so indecisive with this stuff.
 
@sehe If you have 32-bit inputs, storing them in 32 bits is certainly the most obvious way to retain their values. But, there are all sorts of delta compression and such that (under the right circumstances) can use less.
 
Either they're sizes (loop counts are sizes) or they are data that streams from somewhere to somewhere.
 
@sehe Is there a reason to use unsigned? o.o
 
3:46 PM
Occasionally you do some maths even with the sizes, which is where you'd have the head ache of "the right difference type"
 
@sehe But that's an argument for not caring either way.
 
@sehe I usually find it most convenient to invent them on demand.
 
@ReousaAsteron Is there a reason not to use size_t
 
@sehe loop indices for(int i = -3; i <= 3; ++i)
 
@sehe Not really, i guess it's just out of habit, not entirely sure it's a bad one though o-o
 
3:48 PM
@milleniumbug Well. That's fair. Since the boundaries are fixed. In effect, your "inputs" are -3 and 3 here. And their types are int. So you applied my common sense rule: you don't convert unless you know why
Technically you could elect int_fast_t but the compiler is smart enough.
 
This is interesting
 
@caps It only seems that way. It's really as boring as a drill bit.
 
There are some other places where you can get conversions
 
I was persuaded by the C++ "grill the committee" panel in which they all unanimously declared you should just use int (and not unsigned int), and that they only used unsigned int as size_t because they were "young and dumb."
 
mainly from libraries which define typedefs to unspecified integral types
 
Ven
3:51 PM
unsigned <3
 
Don't get me wrong--I have no issue with people preferring int32_t over int. I see the reasoning behind it. But I'm not sure I see the reasoning behind uint32_t or std::size_t being a good default.
 
@caps The problem is that is essentially a guerilla stand and it's annoying to pursue it.
 
I'm not a fan of these - slight mishap, and your std::max(get_stuff(), 8192) will fail on some platforms
 
@caps I think it was less "young and dumb" than "dealing with 16-bit environments, where that extra bit from an unsigned type really made a big difference".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Which is the guerilla stand?
@JerryCoffin That's possible too, I suppose. I can see that.
 
3:53 PM
@caps Using int all over. The stdlib will make your life annoying at every corner.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, static_cast (or gsl::narrow_cast) everywhere.
@R.MartinhoFernandes So do you advocate using std::size_t all over?
 
The perfect storm is using Eigen and the stdlib together.
Eigen took the guerilla stand, so no matter which option you pick, you're screwed.
 
@JerryCoffin: hi
 
I don't really see the appeal of using an int everywhere. you get uncertain range and UB on overflow
 
The defined behaviour on overflow of unsigned types doesn't make your program any more correct vOv.
 
3:56 PM
I often assume ints have at least 32 bits although that's not the case
 
@JerryCoffin: is there any use of unique_ptr for arrays? How frequently it is used? Isn't it nice to always use std::vector?
 
Reminds me of this:
yesterday, by Luc Danton
No, it is not (just) borrowing related. And if it were, we would have the same problem in C++. Lack of a borrow checker does not make borrowing work…
 
Maybe I should just static_assert(std::numeric_limits<int>::min() < -2000000000 && std::numeric_limits<int>::max() > 2000000000);
 
@melak47 Actually, having UB on overflow enables compilers to make debug modes with trap overflows (not that I know of any such implementation existing)
 
-ftrapv
 
3:59 PM
@milleniumbug Asserting the size should be enough.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure it means your program has a bug. But why invite UB that can lead to anything :D
 
Indeed, it would make it portable to compilers without constexpr
 
@caps ikr - that's not interesting. It's just the other side of the same coin. It hurts when you don't adhere to the same convention.
 
@ReousaAsteron I wonder if I could tag myself
 
@melak47 In practice, in equivalent code the alternative can also lead to anything. You get a corrupted value either way.
 
4:03 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes the fact that size_t guarantees the capacity to address standard containers is what sells it to me
 
@sehe Yeah, I'd buy that.
But the overflow argument is bullshit.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but time travel and scurry optzns
 
“Even if you have a 100% formally verified lawnmower, you still have to cut your grass!” - @jwiegley #composeconf
 
6 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@melak47 Actually, having UB on overflow enables compilers to make debug modes with trap overflows (not that I know of any such implementation existing)
 
@sehe ...or is it container_type::size_type?
 
4:04 PM
And this.
 
@milleniumbug size_t guarantees that it can hold the size of the biggest possible object.
That is generic enough for the majority of applications.
 
@Ell i did
 
If your code actually handles the overflows, it can do so with either signed or unsigned types (though I'll grant you that it might be simpler to detect it with unsigned types). If your code doesn't handle them, you'll get behaviour equivalent to corrupted memory either way.
 
detecting overflows on multiplication is quite hard to handle with signed numbers if you don't use the larger type
 
@milleniumbug if that was you who asked me about hate please email me or file a gh issue because I'm still on my trip and that makes it easier for me to not forget
Also in news my stay in Austria is getting real
 
4:08 PM
I quite like C#'s checked and unchecked blocks, btw.
 
Probably around mid April and about 3 months
 
@BartekBanachewicz ok, I'll send an email then
 
int x = int.MaxValue;
checked { ++x; } // throws OverflowException
unchecked {++x; } // wraps-around
++x; // does whichever option is the default, chosen with a compiler switch
So you can have the whole binary compiled with overflow traps, or with wrap-arounds, and you can also have specific parts with or without traps.
 
that looks nice
 
@milleniumbug yup. In theory, std::size_type is already a cop out. In practice, it's the same. Don't even start about std::streamoff, en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/io/fpos etc
 
4:13 PM
The Mono compiler had a bug where it would always be unchecked or something.
I fixed it :D
 
Co.Ol
 
user1804599
You can also use those keywords with expressions.
 
Found it cause NodaTime was compiled with the checked arithmetic flag, and it had a bunch of tests failing in Mono.
 
oh fucking amazing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That would be pretty nice.
 
user1804599
4:17 PM
I don't really like the feature though.
 
on the LAST day of stay here my laptop finally connected to the network
 
user1804599
You can't use it with custom operator overloads.
 
user1804599
The lexical scoping hinders refactorability.
 
@Zoidberg that's true as fuck
 
user1804599
I think it should be separate operators.
 
4:19 PM
actually i'm going to star it for the world to see
 
user1804599
Is that sarcastic? If so, do you know what I was talking about, specifically?
 
operator++(stuff) const&& checked;
 
> The lexical scoping hinders refactorability
what other scoping doesn't? dynamic scoping?
 
I was specifically talking about CPS
 
user1804599
In Clojure it's + for throw-on-overflow, and +' for arbitrary precision.
 
4:21 PM
CPS = continuation passing style?
 
Ell
I think I need another break from peeps
I need to learn ODEs etc. etc .for my summer exams
 
@Ell So close your eyes. No peeping!
 
Ell
haha
if only it was as easy as closing my eyes :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz people are grateful that you leave. They'll have their network back
 
4:24 PM
@Ell I remember ODEs (and PDEs, and at least 3 other mathematical terms).
 
Ven
@milleniumbug yes
 
user1804599
nooo rob ford died :(
 
user1804599
RIP
 
Ven
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's very cool indeed :o.
@Zoidberg rip.
 
lol you know about Rob Ford?
I didn't realize he was known internationally
 
4:28 PM
@Prismatic He is/was, since his drug thing
also, didnt he borderline physically assault someone in parliament?
 
Possibly, he was a bit nuts
 
@Borgleader <3
 
I think he hit someone on a bike once in his van
Damn apparently he was only 46
 
user406009
@Borgleader Just wait until Trump actually gets nominated.
 
user406009
4:33 PM
Then the shit will hit the fan.
 
Scary times
 
@Lalaland I'd like to remind you that Cape Breton is a nice place
 
@Lalaland If only I could get myself frozen for 8 years, and be sure they'd wake me up afterwards (because I'm sure in 8 years, the world will have so few people, they'd really need to wake up an fat old fart like me--and particularly need a programmer with out of date skills).
 
I've been to Cape Breton it is hella pretty
 
> Everything that is syntactically legal, that the compiler will accept, will eventually wind up in your codebase.
 
user406009
4:43 PM
I've sometimes wondered about trying to apply population genetics type theory to codebases.
 
user406009
Think of changes to the code as "mutations".
 
user406009
Shitty code has a lower rate of changing because it's hard to swap out.
 
user406009
Good code has a higher rate of change because people doing refuckters can understand what's going on.
 
user406009
This implies that eventually all code will "evolve" to be shitty.
 
yeah, entropy
 
4:52 PM
@Lalaland You've missed an important point there: by supporting refactoring, unit tests accelerate the devolution.
 

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