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user1804599
1:01 PM
Tsipras is a hero.
 
user1804599
@sehe what does that mean?
 
user1804599
I suppose it's putting the LCD in the middle.
 
user1804599
I always wondered: do non-colourblind people perceive the same colours the same way?
 
user1804599
I cannot think up any experiment which could confirm or deny this.
 
user1804599
Same with other senses.
 
1:08 PM
@rightfold Yeah there was a Vsauce video about this.
 
Ell
what do you call it when a 2d array is [1a, 1b, 2a, 2b] instead of [1a, 2a, 1b, 2b]?
Sounds like interpolated
I don't think it's interpolated though
this is in the context of vertex array objects
 
@rightfold Approximately, yes. That's why TVs and screen works
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok I mean if I had your eyes, nerves and brain but my knowledge, would I say this text is black?
 
oh boy, having to look into migrating a too large SVN repo to GIT
 
@Ell interleaved
 
1:11 PM
and I don't think the SVN repo is in too good a shape in the first place.
 
@rightfold The eye is a function that associates a continuous function f(freq)=intensity with a tuple of color value intensity + lightness (c1,c2,c3,i)
 
@Ell obvious enough :P
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok watch the video Nooble linked.
 
user1804599
It explains what I mean in a clear way.
 
I won't watch a youtube video at work
 
user1804599
1:13 PM
It's a question of learning names of colours and perception, not the mechanical workings of organs.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz ah thank you
 
Ah ok not just the eyes then
Well in this case I don't know
 
@Mr.kbok Consider your idea of what "red" looks like to you. How can you be sure that's not what "green" looks like to me?
When something is red, we both know it as red by convention, even though we might actually perceive it differently.
 
user1804599
Same goes with sound, taste and smell.
 
Yes I know
 
Ell
1:16 PM
I think it's an uninteresting question personally
it has no ramifications
 
There are essentially three different "red"s at play: the property of things that reflect light around 700nm, the signals that our cones produce when hit with light around 700nm, and the way our brains interpret those signals.
 
user1804599
the question is about the latter
 
The first two are easily shown to be the same; the last one isn't.
 
Also there's what is the canonical red between many values of red
 
The canonical red is defined by the first two.
 
user1804599
1:18 PM
You might be able to research it if you're an epic neurologist.
 
oh right
 
That's why we can say "red" and still understand each other, despite the possibility of #3 being different between us.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz can you give me a hand for a second with setting up vertex attributes in opengl?
 
user1804599
My interpretation of red is the best!
 
user1804599
And you all suck!
 
Ell
1:19 PM
I'm confused about the stride parameter of glVertexAttribPointer
 
I think this might be interesting to discuss in the GEB room at some point.
Kinda hard to discuss without building a specific nonce vocabulary, though.
 
@Ell stride is size of all parameters per vertex
 
user1804599
Also in the GHB room.
 
user1804599
If you like lots of colours.
 
@Ell How much you have to move a pointer to skip to the next vertex.
 
1:21 PM
0 is a special value and is used when the stride is equal to the one attribute size
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am unsure if it's from the start of the attribute or from the end
 
(typically sizeof(vertex) but not necessarily)
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz not necessarily.
 
@Ell from the start to the start
 
user1804599
There can be unused space between the vertices.
 
1:21 PM
@Ell I always thought it was just how much it skips from the start.
 
user1804599
Or data used for other purposes.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz Ah okay
that explains why my code is working :P
 
@Ell Doesn't matter. Regardless of whether X is "start" or "end", it's from X to X.
 
Ell
thanks guys
 
so if you have [(vec3, vec2)], the stride is 5 * sizeof(float)
 
Ell
1:24 PM
auto vao = interleaved(
	attrib<glm::vec3>(program.attributes["position"]),
	attrib<glm::vec3>(program.attributes["normal"])
);
now I need a cool syntax for this. it's going to be a pain having to qualify attrib. that will make it much less cool :(
actually I don't want that
I'll stop thinking aloud now :)
 
Oh wait. The pointer is how much it skips from the start.
Why on earth do they call it pointer.
 
Ell
pointer is offset from the start
idk, it's silly
it should be called offset
 
Historical reasons.
 
@Ell Yeah.
 
Though it is conceptually the same as a pointer.
It's an internal pointer.
 
user1804599
1:27 PM
@Ell what type is program.attributes?
 
Ell
@rightfold program_attribute
 
user1804599
@Ell Weird name for a type that you use with plural variable names.
 
Ell
oh wait
sorry, I misread
it's type is program_attributes
:P
 
user1804599
@Columbo top kek
 
user1804599
1:29 PM
@Ell ok.
 
user1804599
If it was std::map I'd recommend using at instead of operator[].
 
user1804599
Unless you want it to autovivify but that'd be really obscure.
 
@Ell Hmm actually how does this work as a const GLvoid*? I use to think it was an int and I've never really set a value other than 0.
 
Ell
I don't know what autovivifieing is
 
user1804599
@Nooble you depend on the behaviour of reinterpret_cast.
 
1:31 PM
@Nooble Historical reasons again.
 
user1804599
In the Perl programming language, autovivification is the automatic creation of new arrays and hashes as required every time an undefined value is dereferenced. Perl autovivification allows a programmer to refer to a structured variable, and arbitrary sub-elements of that structured variable, without expressly declaring the existence of the variable and its complete structure beforehand. In contrast, other programming languages either: 1) require a programmer to expressly declare an entire variable structure before using or referring to any part of it; or 2) require a programmer to declare a part...
 
Ell
@Nooble I just do this atm reinterpret_cast<void*>(3 * sizeof(float))
 
@Nooble You have to reinterpret_cast an int into it just to pass it along.
 
Oh okay.
 
It used to be a pointer always.
Now it either depends (compat mode) or it never is a pointer.
 
Ell
1:33 PM
@rightfold I think I am doing autovivification then
if the attribute hasn't been accessed before it is created from the key
std::unordered_map can only default construct class types so I had to create my own thing with operator[]
 
user1804599
lolwat
 
Ell
there's probably a cleverer way
 
Which IDE do you guys use?
 
user1804599
> If an insertion is performed, the mapped value is value-initialized (default-constructed for class types, zero-initialized otherwise) and a reference to it is returned.
 
user1804599
works fine with non-class types.
 
user1804599
1:35 PM
@RonaldPMathews Vim, duh.
 
Ell
program_attributes::operator[](std::string) returns a program_attribute
 
tomorrow is friday holy shit
 
@RonaldPMathews Sublime Text 3 and IntelliJ IDEA
 
fuck so happy
 
user1804599
lol, my bitset implementation is really stupid.
 
user1804599
1:35 PM
I just noticed.
 
user1804599
the API consumer has to do bitshifting instead of the implementation
 
@RonaldPMathews Sublime Text 3.
 
@RonaldPMathews visual studio 4ever #swag #yolo
 
Great. I use Sublime Text 3.
 
you should totally get together with nooble
 
user1804599
1:38 PM
I like my editors free as in speech, not free as in WinRAR.
 
@AlexM. He doesn't look like a koala to me.
 
user1804599
$ convert +level-colors purple,white 2000px-Lambda_lc.svg-{white,purple}.png
 
user1804599
great. my new avatar.
 
> Any of the books which are inside those lists which suck for reasons
 
1:44 PM
@Nooble appearances can deceive lennyface
 
Ell
okay incoming noob question
 
user1804599
ImageMagick > Photoshop.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Your code sucks for reasons. loungecpp.net/the-law/newbie-hints [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes could not parse =/
 
@AlexM. ( Í ° ÍŸÊ– Í¡°)
 
1:45 PM
@Ell Deflected.
 
@Nooble Confused lennyface. Love it
 
Ell
What is the reason we don't have variadic non-template functions?
 
user1804599
We do.
 
@nabijaczleweli ( Í¡~ ͜ʖ Í¡°)
 
Ell
(static I mean, not like varargs)
 
user1804599
1:46 PM
But the way it works is terrible.
 
you mean like int f(int... params)?
 
Ell
@AlexM. yes
the attraction being nicer syntax than std::initializer_list
 
user1804599
I suppose you could add such a feature, but it would complicate overloading by shitloads.
 
Ell
I guess this attraction is not significant enough vOv
 
user1804599
Literally don't add anything new to C++ which might affect overload resolution.
 
1:48 PM
I really liked it in Java
void foo(String... args) {
    for (String arg : args) {
        System.out.println(arg);
    }
}
no idea as to why it doesn't exist in C++
I like that you can simply iterate over the params too with foreach
 
user1804599
If you do it anyway then you're literally hitler.
 
@AlexM. It's just syntactic sugar for an array.
I prefer C#'s syntax.
 
yep
you can also pass arrays to that
 
user1804599
Varargs in Java are also broken, since the callsite isn't required to expand arrays into them explicitly with .... Same in C#.
 
void foo(params string[] args)
 
user1804599
1:50 PM
The result is overloading difficulties, especially with subtyping.
 
It doesn't look like it's something other than an array.
 
user1804599
Object[] is a subtype of Object. The result is horror.
 
@rightfold EVERYTHING IS AN Object!!!!!!! (except primitives, we don't talk about primitives)
 
using parameter list of the same type is mostly a weird complication
 
user1804599
I think varargs aren't worth the complexity.
 
user1804599
1:54 PM
Take array, pass array, problem solved!
 
paycheck arrived
great
 
speaking of payments I'm glad the new workplace accepts any bank account for the salary
I already have 4 bank accounts thanks to job hopping ffs
 
only worked in places that force you to use a specific bank's services
 
Xeo
wtf, why wouldn't hey accept any?
WTF
 
1:55 PM
@AlexM. what
 
@AlexM. why wouldn't they accept any bank account?
 
@AlexM. lolwut
@AlexM. lolwut
 
I don't think that's legal
 
it seems it is shrug
 
0/10 not taking that job.
 
1:56 PM
when I joined Gameloft I auto-received an ING bank account
 
seriously this sounds horrible
 
when I joined the previous workplace I was forced to get a BT bank account
 
it's unheard of
 
Pay me cash if you don't want to send money to my bank.
 
1:56 PM
@AlexM. The fuck is that shit.
 
Or find someone else.
 
I think companies make deals with banks
 
I have never seen anything like it.
 
otherwise I can't explain the exclusivity thing
 
user1804599
become a hippie and work for free!
 
1:56 PM
@AlexM. they shouldn't be allowed to
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would be surprised if you actually knew the specifics about the payment methods used before employment for any of your current jobs
 
I am pretty sure something like this would be illegal here.
 
is it like illegal in your countries? I mentioned it in other places and the answer was "wtf" there too
 
"Well you are hired, but we can only pay you in pennies, and you must bring a silk bag made by blind orphans in order to receive payment"
4
 
user1804599
ORPHAN
 
1:57 PM
@sehe I don't care. If it's not in the contract, I'm not accepting those terms.
 
@AlexM. I don't think it's illegal, but if I saw that shit here I would go "well then, looks I'll go to <a competitor> instead, they don't try to pull that stuff up there".
 
I asked about the bank stuff especially today
 
I'm not dealing with a third party of their choice unless it's in the contract.
 
I think it's highly unusual here. Though if the bank has a stake in say the insurance policies as well, and possibly some other services then it makes sense that they "get this in return". Still bad for employees, of course
 
user1804599
In Dutch we'd say "je kunt de tyfus krijgen".
 
1:58 PM
so I know if I'm to expect a new fucking account to be added to my collection
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes If it's not in the contract, it's not part of the terms.
 
I think you have every right to demand being paid in cash as well
 
it sucks that I didn't close my previous account when I left and now I have to go there and pay for account maintenance before closing it ugh
 
user1804599
I demand being paid in gulders or any other obsolete currency of choice.
 
Life is hard in in the French Balkans.
3
 
2:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz This, I doubt
 
yea I never heard of anyone asking to be paid in cash
 
@sehe Indeed.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Cash is usually different.
 
I waited tables for a while.
 
user1804599
 
@BartekBanachewicz It seems reasonable for the employer to say that the bank handles this service for them
 
One of the other workers wanted to be paid in cash and the manager told her "I'm sorry, I can't do that."
 
user1804599
 
Shut up, rightfold.
10
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes <3
 
user1804599
2:01 PM
Network Engineering cool new site
 
I thought law.se could be cool
 
@BartekBanachewicz There are usually rules about when cash can be required or when cash must be accepted.
 
but then again it differs by country ;/
 
user1804599
What are subnets?
 
@rightfold Subnetworks, most of the time. In which context?
 
2:02 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes either way, requiring making an account in a specific bank is just uh
 
I never saw it as an issue until I got multiple accounts and saw people thinking it's bad
it looked like a normal reality about employment
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, but that's different from cash.
 
why so ancient tho
sql server 2000 is like what dinosaurs used
 
it's exactly around 15 years old
 
2:09 PM
> DRILLTHROUGH Statement
 
DIRECTLYFROMMARSHALLEDROWSET
 
> exactly around
 
Did you win Super Hexagon yet Alex
 
not yet I got too busy with stronghold crusader 2
 
Xeo
2:15 PM
> Internal compiler error in src/compiler.js! Please raise a bug report at github.com/kripken/emscripten/issues with a log of the build and the input files used to run. Exception message: "TypeError: Cannot read property 'toString' of undefined"
lolz
gg
so much for that try
 
Heh I can still play
 
user1804599
SQLite virtual tables seem very interesting for some stuff.
 
@CatPlusPlus Odd enough, this was what I was looking for.
 
user1804599
That's why he mentioned it.
 
Cat++ is a well-known psychic
Is the layout of C++ objects guaranteed to be in order of declaration?
 
user1804599
2:22 PM
Not always.
 
When is it not?
 
@Mr.kbok for standard layout types.
 
Xeo
between regions of accessibility
 
When you have access specifiers
 
user1804599
If the members don't have the same visibility, for example.
 
2:23 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you have some time to help me figure out something about universal references?
(or anyone else is welcome)
 
user1804599
 
@rightfold are you saying struct something { public: int a; private: int b; public: int c; }; will have members ordered acb or bac?
 
So my colleague had a funny bug
I'm sure all you guys will have a good laugh
 
Xeo
@caps or whatever other order
 
...
good job C++
 
2:26 PM
@Xeo what now?
 
Xeo
you have no guarantees between different regions of accessibility, IIRC
 
@MarcoA. Maybe. Ask away.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
Does Boost or TBB have something like that?
 
on the other hand, struct something { int a; int b; int c; } and struct something { public: int a; int b; private: int c; }; should both be abc right?
 
2:27 PM
so we were testing a new version of the library and there were crashes at the end of the process
 
turned out I changed a raw pointer to a shared pointer
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :(
Would the first one at least be true?
 
But the guys who call our library dropped the new binaries without rebuilding
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes in this code, if I got everything correctly, the value category from the std::move is a lvalue. My question is: isn't the type a rvalue reference anyway? Why is the function receiving a reference?
 
2:28 PM
So at some point the code would destroy the pointer inside the shared_ptr which was where the raw pointer used to reside
 
I feel I'm missing something important here
 
@MarcoA. There are no function rvalues.
 
@Mr.kbok Evil.
 
--but--
Apparently the shared_count was being destroyed, instead of the actual px, which makes me wonder if the layout is actually in order of declaration
 
@MarcoA. It doesn't matter what the type is.
 
2:30 PM
I mean sp_counted_base
 
r/lvalueness is not a property of types. It's a property of expressions.
 
@rightfold no, because we don't do GC
 
std::move(fun) is an lvalue, so it binds as an lvalue.
 
user1804599
@sehe it doesn't need an external GC.
 
indeed, so use a list of shared_ptrs as the free list. Similar solution AFAICT see e.g. boost.org/doc/libs/1_57_0/libs/smart_ptr/…
 
user1804599
2:34 PM
ok
 
@rightfold God damn it.
It's been so long...
 
user1804599
> Oh, man, you know what would be great right now? A big bowl of chili, swimming in tabasco, with diced onions, grated cheddar, and Saltines. Damn. I just wish I wasn't so stuffed from that big lunch, or I could dig into one of those big-time.
 
user1804599
I think @Xeo is this kind of person.
 
Ell
I imagine @xeo never gorges
 
uhm how should I think of the type returned by `template< class T >
typename std::remove_reference<T>::type&& move( T&& t );` ? Since types are not involved here I'm not sure how it works
 
2:39 PM
The results of functions returning rvalue references are xvalues.
 
xvalues are EXTREME values.
Or would that be Xvalues? Or X-values?
 
X-values are mutant.
 
Extremely complicated
 
ValuesEx are Microsoft-specific.
 
Ell
lol
bvao.setup_interleaved({
	{program.attributes["position"], identity<glm::vec3>()},
	{program.attributes["normal"], identity<glm::vec3>()}
});
I have this now
it's still ugly but much shorter at least
 
2:44 PM
your mom is ugly and short
 
> xvalue will always bind to the rvalue reference overload if available
on cppreference
(I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to understand)
 
user1804599
@Ell why are attribute names strings?
 
user1804599
can they be arbitrary strings?
 
oh by the way the end of the story is that some guy commented a bunch of my code, replaced the shared_ptr by a raw ptr, committed it all in the production branch, and now our app crashes
 
Teamwork!
 
2:48 PM
@Mr.kbok The real issue is you don't have safeguards in place to prevent someone from pushing code that far down the line without approval by someone else.
 
we should play stronghold crusader 2 together
or the first
 
Even by assuming everyone is competent and trustworthy, everybody makes mistakes once in a while, and code needs to get in front of more than one set of eyeballs before it gets in production.
 
hello all
someone serial-upvotes me. wtf
 
Ell
@rightfold yes
 
user1804599
I see.
 
Ell
2:51 PM
the string is the name of the attribute in the shader programme
which is just a regular identifier
 
yesterday he upvoted me 11 times within 2 minutes. all of them questions
 
maybe 11 users ganged up on you
 
user1804599
@JohannesSchaub-litb Who wouldn't? You're awesome!
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb First world problems, eh.
 
the bad thing is, the abuse detector detected it and revoked them
-35points :/
 
2:53 PM
first world problems
 
@Mr.kbok Awesome.
 
I always read that like
the world problems that are first
 
user1804599
xD
 
anyway, why is it that the mouse-hover text, when over the time of an upvote in the reputations list, shows something like "21:29:04Z" for an upvote, and then when moving down or up to other votes, the same time is shown, until you move completely away and then again on some time?
 
@Mr.kbok Why was that the solution instead of, say, recompiling all the relevant objects with the shared pointer you added?
 
2:54 PM
is this a browser (chromium) or stackoverflow issue?
 
@caps Because the organization is highly dysfunctional
 
@MarcoA. Yes, but in your example, it's not an xvalue. It's an lvalue because there's an exception for functions.
Functions are always lvalue.
 
I don't have to deal with those guys too often, but everytime I do I'm amazed at how much they suck
 
@MarcoA. The result of std::move is typically an xvalue, except when a function is involved. Then it's an lvalue.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Okay perfect. This should probably be added to cppreference
 
2:59 PM
I want to go home
and eat a pizza and relax
 
Then go home
 
I can't I need to stay here 2+ hours
 
@AlexM. I want to go home, too.
 
Then go to sleep and wait until it's 2 hours later
And then go home
 

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