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8:00 PM
right
 
user1804599
@Ven Are Objective-C and Ruby Smalltalkish?
 
apparently I now have a sweet tax rebate in the post
 
@Ven Smalltalk is interesting.
 
Ven
@rightfold objective-c, maybe. ruby, no
 
@Borgleader yeah, cause im a sessy bich
 
user1804599
8:00 PM
OK.
 
Ven
@wilx oh, I agree, even tho all I did was complete the gnu smalltalk koans
@rightfold also, you didn't try swift yet, did you
 
user1804599
Precisely.
 
user1804599
And I'm not at all interested in Swift.
 
@Ven I only ever used VisualWorks for uni project.
 
user1804599
I avoid languages that have no FOSS implementations.
 
Ven
8:01 PM
well, so you tried f# and m#?
@wilx how was your experience?
 
user1804599
I never heard of M#.
 
Ven
also, @rightfold doesn't do much lisp
 
user1804599
I have used F#.
 
user1804599
Nope, only Clojure.
 
Ven
@rightfold also called "midori"
 
user1804599
8:02 PM
Not interested in other ones as they don't have the Java ecosystem.
 
user1804599
Maybe that Erlang lisp some day.
 
Ven
lfe – lisp flavoured erlang
 
@Ven It was interesting. Though I still like C++ better. :)
 
Ven
@wilx really? I'm mostly interested in the "smalltalk IDE" experience, as you hear extravagant things about them
 
Ell
I like midori
 
user1804599
8:03 PM
> Virtual: Procedure print Is Procedure print;
 
user1804599
Simula so WET.
 
Ven
XD
DRY. Do Repeat Yourself.
 
user1804599
Write Everything Twice.
2
 
DAMP
 
user1804599
tenenkaasdamp
 
user1804599
8:07 PM
in een waas van tenenkaas
 
139
Q: What does “DAMP not DRY” mean when talking about unit tests?

Ian RingroseI heard someone say that unit tests (e.g. nUnit, jUnit, xUnit) should be DAMP not DRY (E.g. unit tests should contain "damp code" not "dry code") What are they talking about?

 
> Does any C++ standard guarantee that STL iterators can be stored in a union? If so, which standard?
lol
 
user1804599
> Wodan hing in de boom, zichzelf verwond met een speer
 
Ven
it should contain DANK code.
 
0
Q: Turbo c++ colour codes

Angad SinghI have been using turbo c++ from quite long time, I have noticed that there are by default 16 colours(0-15) but I know that there is a way to make your own custom background and text colours, does anybody know how to do it...?

 
8:22 PM
@AndyProwl he spelled "color" as "colour" in the title, please fix!
 
@FilipRoséen-refp I'd rather not start another BrE vs AmE war
last time it didn't end up well
 
@AndyProwl why not? we fight the same wars over and over on SO all the time.
 
@AndyProwl Did it ever?
 
@FilipRoséen-refp yeah but a mod got upset and downvotes and threats and shit
@Griwes yeah
 
@AndyProwl I agree. American English is better.
 
8:25 PM
And actually the war started just because I've asked (not stated) which one should be used
 
<- grabs the popcorn
 
delicate topic apparently
also comments have been nuked so there's not much I can point to
 
@FilipRoséen-refp shouldn't that be popcourn?
 
@rightfold tante Betje (or out-of-context fragment)
 
user1804599
Booleans in COBOL are funny: ideone.com/BI04sx
 
user1804599
8:26 PM
Some dialects only support SET X TO TRUE, not SET X TO FALSE, so you have to perform this trick.
 
@rightfold are you playing with cobol now?
 
user1804599
It's like doing union { bool hungry; bool not_hungry; } filler; in C++.
 
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because this question belongs on the 1992 version of SO — sehe 6 secs ago
 
@StackedCrooked please, "pop-courn".
 
I have finished watching Seven Periods with Mr. Gormsby. Lovely series.
 
user1804599
8:28 PM
@StackedCrooked Yes. It's very nice.
 
does it have monad?
 
user1804599
Monad
Monod
Morod
Moron
 
@Rapptz So seems like -rpath=. is exactly what I needed to get the same behavior as on Windows.
I have two boxes both running Ubuntu 14. One has GCC5.1 installed. The other only has 4.8. The program compiled with 5.1 does not run on the box with only 4.8 without pulling both libcilkrts.so.5 and libstdc++.so.6. Go figure...
 
Ven
oh, it's been a long time since I last saw @Mysticial here
 
hi
 
user1804599
8:31 PM
@Ven They're here about every day.
 
Ven
@rightfold no
 
He was here last night talking about a spider.
 
Ven
ah well
EU times and things then
 
@rightfold Hamming or Levenshtein?
 
Hi first time joining a chat here on stack overflow :D
How do people learn enough to answer questions? I would like to answer more questions without consuming too much time as I have more important things to do. However having a higher reputation would benefit my resume. :P
 
8:39 PM
welcome to the cult
 
Hi.
 
@Testing360 by reading
a fukin lot
 
What kind of stuff do you read? :D
 
like, c++ stuff and android stuff (personally)
 
the chat
 
8:40 PM
Books? Blogs? Magazines?
 
books, blogs, no magazines (unless ur a girl)
 
There are tech magazines... >.> XD
 
(nerd girl)
 
LOL
Any recommended links? :D
 
ty (y)
 
user1804599
@Testing360 code.
 
What about github open source projects?
 
What about them?
 
Any tips for a newbie?
I am a bit afraid of going in there and starting to do bad code or breaking stuff.
 
8:43 PM
Contribute to Kyrostat.
 
I always think from the viewpoint of a more experienced programmer. If I were one I probably wouldnt want a newbie going around wrecking my beautiful code and architecture.
 
@Testing360 @rightfold has a large list of uncompleted projects. Maybe he can help.
3
 
ty :D
 
@Testing360 What have you programmed?
 
College stuff. Python, C (my favourite one but I probably am not good enough at it), Java, C++, Lisp, Prolog.
 
user1804599
8:45 PM
@Testing360 learn as many programming languages with different programming paradigms as possible.
 
user1804599
Learn Haskell.
 
Hmmm interesting... I know imperative, OO. Very little knowledge on functional tough.
 
@Testing360 Any reason for the preference of C over C++?
 
The concept of functional paradigm is very intuitive. A very well structured code should be 90% function calls. But when I gave it a try with Lisp, I had a really hard time with it.
Just because I programmed more in C than C++. I had 2 semesters in a row with C projects and in those 2 semesters I didnt get any contributions from my group teammates, so I had to pull off most of my hair trying to get the projects to work.
I had a bad grade but I learned a lot.
 
Ahh :)
 
8:49 PM
functional vs imperative OO? whats the difference?
 
user1804599
@Testing360 which lisp
 
user1804599
Nobody uses the original lisp anymore.
 
Specially pointers. Most people look at pointers as monsters. I kinda like them because I really understand the concept.
 
@Testing360 thats cool
 
CLisp
functional = based on function calls.
OO = based on objects
 
user1804599
8:50 PM
Objects are just tuples of functions.
 
imperative = lets just declare some variables and change values
 
user1804599
Functions are single-method objects!
 
Indeed :O
 
@Testing360 It's a bit more than that - the fun stuff is treating functions as arguments, passing them to other functions, returning functions and stuff
 
It is a bit hard for me to get into that mindset tough. I am more comfortable with the pointer mindset.
 
8:51 PM
I wonder why they teach C in college.
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug No, the fun stuff is immutability.
 
Whats the problem with C?
Legacy language?
 
user1804599
@Testing360 You don't need pointers if everything is immutable!
 
Ven
"CLisp" you mean common lisp?
 
yes
 
Ven
8:52 PM
@rightfold you don't need pointers
 
user1804599
Common Business Oriented Lisp.
 
Ven
@Nooble "because it's good to have an idea of the memory model / memory mapping"
cobol isn't either, so?
 
What do you mean we don't need pointers? Assembly -> Jumps everywhere :P
 
@rightfold You say it like first-class functions aren't fun.
 
We need the address value.
 
8:53 PM
@Testing360 no
 
@Testing360 It's not that C is bad, it's just that C++ is better.
@Ven I guess...
 
user1804599
Marginally better.
 
Ven
C++ still sucks!
 
user1804599
C++ is abysmal.
4
 
GPSL is best language.
 
8:54 PM
I haz very little experience with c++ :P
 
@Testing360 My experience so far is that you don't need to know stuff. You just need to know where to look for it, and be quick at learning.
 
Indeed.
 
Ven
I'm looking for a good and modern C++ tutorial/book for a friend who knows C, PHP and Ruby.
 
Problem is I think my learning speed has become to decline. So has my memory retention level.
 
0
Q: How to make template abstract factory

LukasI was wondering how to implement template abstract factory which can produce random object out of compile time known set of classes given as template parameters. I wrote class with template methods, that gave me a solution, but I am not satisfied. I want to move base template parameter to be a fa...

 
Ell
8:55 PM
I'm back
 
> what about java implementation?
lol
why did I even go back to
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl awful design
 
Ven
aw my avatar :'(
 
What happened to it?
Err, I mean, why did it change?
 
> which can produce random object
Random objects are useless.
 
8:57 PM
> it doesn't instantiates
 
@Testing360 So try something new every week. Try learning data structures, try functional languages, try learning some library you haven't used yet.
 
ok let's stop making fun of people
 
Ell
I hope you are happy @AndyProwl
 
lol
 
Ell
I'm srs you're a really cool person
it wasn't sarcastic
 
8:58 PM
lol, okay, thank you
 
Ell
maybe I should leave before I get too drunk
but I'm in a good mood so it can only go well
 
I am a bit focused on understanding the advanced code my teammates developed for a project I had to work on this semester :P But I appreciate the tip @milleniumbug :D
 
@Ell what are you drinking?
 
Ell
@AndyProwl bourbon atm
 
sounds good
 
8:59 PM
@Ell Hi @ell, I'm also drinking
so fuck you
 
Ell
Shh @DonLarynx
 
What are your thoughts on the future of software engineering and artificial intelligence?
 
@Ell shh, no tears now, only dreams.
 
are you Cinch?
 
Ell
@DonLarynx you are to @sehe what SPAM is to filet mignon
I'm kidding that was too harsh
@Testing360 the sky is the limit
 
9:01 PM
@Testing360 I think it's great.
 
dang. that is harsh. at least replace "SPAM" with burger king. jeez.
 
shit no beer here
 
@AndyProwl sends a corona
 
corona sucks!
:D I want Plzen
Radegast could do, too
 
Ell
I want white wine actually
but I already starting drinking so I can't drive to get it :(
 
9:03 PM
Are you not worried about AI bots generating code on their own?
 
user1804599
No.
 
he's Cinch isn't he
 
@Testing360 I found college to have a negative impact on learning stuff I wanted to do, but on the other hand, it helped me learning stuff that I found boring at first. Also, it helped me find new things to learn. So I'm not complaining really.
 
Ell
@Testing360 I'm looking forward to it actually
 
@Testing360 Not gonna happen, not in this century.
 
9:04 PM
@milleniumbug god dang you said it, if some job forced me to learn linked lists i'd learn it 100x faster
it's too boring atm
 
@Ell Are you seriously going to let the law/your well-being get in the way of white wine?!
 
> alteration of late Latin abyssus ‘bottomless pit’
 
@Ell why are you looking forward to it?
 
Ell
@Nooble No, it's other peoples well-being that I'm worried about :P
 
:P
 
Ell
9:05 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes actually I just realised that means they would take our jobs :(
I'm no longer looking forward to it
 
@DonLarynx It really depends on your attitude.
 
Thank you for the answers guys :D I will leave now. It was a nice experience talking to you. Might join a chat another time again :D Take care! :D
 
@Ell worse. If humans provide no benefit, they're a really costly terrarium (in energetic terms).
 
bye
 
user3790646
I'll say it all over again !! Win32 is nuts!
 
9:07 PM
i fucking hate windows
fuck this system
 
@AndreyErick What have I said?
 
Ell
terrarium? I thought that was an enclosure
 
bows down to linux
 
Oh. I meant ant farm, I think.
 
user3790646
@milleniumbug I don't remember good sir
 
9:09 PM
I thought terrariums had animals in them
 
@AndreyErick It's (a bit) fun if you want to reinvent stuff, but it's bad if you want to get stuff done.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah
now I'm confused
how can a human be a terrarium?
 
I thought snakes
 
Ell
even in energenit terms
 
but maybe it just need to be terra and not aqua
 
user3790646
9:10 PM
@milleniumbug I see. Well I'm rewriting my customer manager software in Win32 in a "kind of" object-oriented way, and dung, it's hard to get stuff done that way
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes they do :)
 
Humans being an ant farm.
 
@AndreyErick Exactly.
 
user3790646
But it pleasures me when something goes right
 
Ell
@AndreyErick I think "pleases" is the word you're looking for :)
 
9:15 PM
In reality, the complete opposite of the Matrix would happen. Using humans for power 'generation' is a ridiculous premise because they're quite inefficient. So they're useless and the fewer there are the less resources they use up and the more are left for you to expand.
 
user3790646
Thank you :) my English is kind of bad I think
 
Ell
@AndreyErick It's not bad
 
I'm assuming such strong AI would have a desire for survival.
 
Ell
"pleasures" is a word, but it has sexual connotations
not always
maybe it's just me
 
user3790646
Ohh :o
 
user3790646
9:16 PM
I didn't know that
 
user3790646
but now I know what to say if I ever have a foreign girlfriend :D
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think we will just have to stop economising and the robots will do everything for us
@AndreyErick haha yes
 
The logical path is to get rid of inefficiencies and expand till your survival is guaranteed till the heat death of universe.
 
The human batteries aspect was so bad in Matrix
I heard they actually considered making them human computers instead. That would at least make sense a bit.
 
Ell
Oops I meant "we will no longer need to economise"
if that makes any sense
we can become communist when resources are limitless
 
9:19 PM
So you expand and make as much smart matter as possible so you can find out better ways to ensure survival and more efficient ways to manufacture more smart matter. Dumb matter is useless as anything but fuel to make smart matter.
@Ell robots won't magically give endless resources vOv.
 
@milleniumbug Actually, that was the original plot- the studio/publisher made then change it to human batteries.
 
Ell
Right
 
Humans are dumb matter, or really poor smart matter that can possibly be recycled later into more efficient smart matter.
 
Smatter?
I want The Culture to be real.
 
user1804599
turn everything into paperclips
 
9:23 PM
Have any of you tried CLion?
 
user1804599
No.
 
@wilx Minds are... different.
They're... magical.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There was a smatter outbreak in one of the novels.
 
Not just emergent behaviour.
 
or Resharper C++?
 
9:25 PM
@wilx you mean Excession?
By 'smart matter' I just mean matter that is useable for computation.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Surface Detail, I think.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah. OK.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's always going to require dumb matter to support it, I think
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı It's not yet usable IMHO. It's a bit bulky (not as slow as Eclipse, but feels slower than NetBeans for example)
 
@milleniumbug thanks for the feedback. I might try resharper C++ then.
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı Excellent. It has working renaming support, code linting, and it really makes writing C++ fun. There are some unpolished edges, but they're getting smaller and smaller every next version.
 
9:30 PM
@wilx Culture Minds have a connection to the Sublime and aren't just the product of emergent behaviour from circuitry, AFAIR.
 
Andy Prowl, of course but that would be the other scope? — AlexanderVX 21 secs ago
wot
 
So, in a way, Banks avoids having to explain how humans survive the singularity by making Minds essentially magical.
 
Ell
I have a metafunction that I don't quite understand, would anyone be opposed to me posting it?
it is 8 lines, 2 lines that do most of the work
I'm gonna take silence to mean I can post it
^ how is value not infinitely recursive?
oh wait I'm an idiot
10
(disregard)
man stars already?
 
@milleniumbug Supports only CMake. pffff...
 
Ell
How the hell is it that quick :L
 
9:35 PM
I like how the room was silent but the stars came in really fast.
 
I didn't get to see it!
Nooooooooooo!
 
Like everyone was just prowling, waiting for it.
 
honestly I'm pretty flump right now
ate way too much shit today and it was totally my own fault.
at least I cleared it all out
 
user3790646
wait chat don't scroll I want to keep clicking on that star to see if someone notices it's increasing and decreasing!
 
flump?
 
9:37 PM
@AndreyErick Yes we can see it.
 
user3790646
Oh that's incredible.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, I was wondering who was starring it considering nobody was talking
 
user3790646
now I'm p da vida, I'll have to create my own table widget(control) on win32
 
@Ell I wish I was there.
 
you know I wish I had time to keep working on Wide
that was a good project
 
9:40 PM
@SeçkinSavaşçı That said, CLion certainly looks promising. It just needs to mature a bit.
 
Ell
@Puppy it isn't over
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı What, resharper?
 
Ell
you have time on weekends, no?
 
@Elll it's like the room is sentient and stars those things out of sense of duty.
 
sure, but
 
Ell
9:41 PM
just an hour a day
 
@milleniumbug there is resharper for C++. VS plugin
 
I've gotta make a bunch of changes to my life if I want to have energy left over on weekends.
right now I pretty much just sleep.
 
user3790646
but you're a dog! Dogs always have energy
 
Ell
How many hours do you sleep?
 
What sort of changes?
 
9:42 PM
and I have other RL commitments
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mostly diet and habits
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı I was describing Resharper for C++ in this message, you know?
 
Ell
my diet needs to change
I need to do more exercise
I need to sleep earlier
but I have waking up on time down now
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı you replied to his resharper message with "pfff only supports cmake" which made no sense
 
the other thing is
I'm frankly getting a bit sick of C++ and the toolchain.
well, pretty much just the toolchain
 
@milleniumbug Woah, I lost the context. I thought you were describing your Clion experience. Sorry about that.
 
Ven
9:44 PM
@milleniumbug I want clion to work :(
 
Ell
as soon as you can bootstrap you can forget some of the c++ bit :P
 
I really don't mind coding in C++, but I'm sick of the compiler bugs and how long it takes to build and can't run tests in release and shit like that
 
user3790646
but don't quit!
 
now that I'm a bit more competent at virtual machines perhaps I should look again at Linux environments instead of VS
 
I've been meaning to fix my diet for a year or so, now.
 
9:46 PM
@SeçkinSavaşçı My arrows point at correct messages, so you can follow the context. That's why they're (the arrows) useful.
@Ven Wait for two or three next major releases
 
Ven
@milleniumbug yeah, but it'll still be cmake based
 
@Puppy You can't run tests in release mode?
 
@milleniumbug Thanks for the tip.
Cider time! Cheers!
 
@Nooble That would require a full release build of Clang and LLVM.
 
Cheers, I like cider too.
 
9:47 PM
@Puppy Oh.
 
@Puppy Can't you build those in release?
 
well I can but it's pretty awkward because ISTR their build scripts overwrite the debug build when building in release build
and I obviously really need debug build as well
 
really? I think I have both debug and release builds
 
even if you run tests in release
if something fails you have to run them in debug to debug them.
 
9:49 PM
@Ven I don't mind CMake.
 
do you have any idea how long it takes debug Clang to parse a stdlib header?
fucking forevre.
 
yes, I know
 
Ven
@milleniumbug I wouldn't mind it if clion's integration worked, actually
 
<vector> takes like 5 seconds on my machine
maybe more
 
I don't like that every IDE has its own project format.
CMake solves that.
 
9:51 PM
I've only used that as a consumer of projects
 
It is bad at some other aspects, but I haven't found other programs that aim at CMake scope.
 
Ell
@milleniumbug it doesn't really
CMake only goes and generates another format
 
@Ell yes! how dare you compare me to filet mignon
 
Ell
I've never had filet mignon
I heard it was good and the cows get massages or something vOv
 
@Testing360 not at all; once they make it pass the tests it will be "mission fucking accomplished!"
@R.MartinhoFernandes this:
 
9:53 PM
@Ell It generates MSVS project files, Sublime Text project files, Eclipse project files... Which is what I want.
 
 
Ell
@Puppy you could possibly attempt to use modules? :P
 
in Visual Studio?
 
Ell
with clang I mean
Does clang not work on windows yet? o.O
 
it's not a question of Clang
it's a question of what environment I would use if not Visual Studio
so far despite the fact that VS is shit I have yet to observe any realistic competition
 
9:55 PM
Oh, you have a project created in Eclipse? Too bad, you won't be able to open and debug it with Visual Studio, you need to create project in my best project format.
 
@milleniumbug They actually had a survey recently and one of the questions they asked about was opening projects from other formats and whether this would benefit developers.
 
Ell
@Puppy can't you use VS as the IDE but clang as the compiler?
And gdb as the debugger maybe?
 
lol gdb
 
Ell
ISTR you don't like gdb though
 
just use coliru
3
 
9:56 PM
They should use ninja.
 
Ell
gdb is awesome
you can go back in time
 
when Clang-VS is ready
then that will be a lot better
I can bootstrap Wide across all platforms and drop MSVC.
 
MSVC is cancer
 
@Puppy That's nice, but it's a courtesy from VS team. The problem still exists if you replace "Visual Studio" in what I said with another IDE name.
 

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