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12:00 AM
...thoughts?
 
Gibberish.
I don't understand after line 3.
 
tl;dr
 
@Cinch I stopped at "k back"
 
Might be helpful if you explained the problem you are trying to fix.
 
@Cinch Essentially overengineered error codes.
@Cinch That already exists.
int x = 5; std::thread t(fun, std::ref(x)); // now the thread can modify only x
...disregarding global variables, but then it would be better to eliminate them instead.
 
12:05 AM
@StackedCrooked how can I make multithreading implicit to a language and retain low level power?
How can I retain state for errors in a flexible way?
How can I try to innovate with a different paradigm, basically?
 
@Cinch std::atomic_flag
@Cinch what
@Cinch what
 
@milleniumbug huh?
 
@Cinch No, what, no.
 
The concurrency mechanism would be implicit to the language
 
@Cinch Restricting the feature set.
 
12:10 AM
@Cinch What errors? No, you can't fix errors with current approaches if you don't know the disadvantages of current approaches.
 
@milleniumbug I know nothing. I'm just conceptualizing and thinking
I'll probably build a virtual machine in C++
 
@Cinch Retaining state for errors in a flexible way. That's a weird thing to ask. Better to observe the program and make a list of common things that go wrong. Then think about how each of those should ideally be handled. Chances are that after a while you'll start to notice a common pattern which leads to the solution. Or maybe not. I don't know :P
 
@Cinch Innovation is hard, seriously. And revolutions don't happen in a single day.
 
@StackedCrooked I don't have much experience. But this is fun to think about
 
I need a beer
 
12:13 AM
I'd look at how other systems (kernels etc) deal with errors.
 
I may have not had any alcohol in 2 weeks 3 days ago or w/e, but I haven't had any beer in at least 2 months now
crazy
and so it happens that I have one in my fridge
what a COINCIDENCE
brb getting drunk
 
Fucking Makefiles
 
Hmm... I wonder how interrupts are handled
 
Now I have doubts about what's worse: Make or PHP?
 
And then I'd ignore all that and try my own invention. After a long time I will realize my folly. Then I'll look again at those other systems and finally understand why they work the way they do.
After that I go back to writing crappy code.
 
12:16 AM
@StackedCrooked yup! Might as well accerlerate the process
 
@milleniumbug Yeah. It's as if he's murmuring to himself..
 
All these Makefiles make me want to go to MSVC.
 
I make files every day.
 
12:33 AM
@AlexM. With that single beer?
 
lol
That "beer" is actually a keg.
 
@AndyProwl rip
 
@milleniumbug Make sucks. PHP is still infinitely worse.
 
12:56 AM
> are can
 
The space probe New Horizons will have a bandwidth of 1kbit/s when it reaches Pluto, and a ping of 4.5 hours.
 
@StackedCrooked, I noticed Coliru has Clang 3.6. Thank you.
 
Hmm.... So CAS. Atomicity is so confusing
 
Oh, cool it came through :)
I had it building in the background yesterday and forgot about it.
 
1:15 AM
"Thank you for coliru" should be a meme
 
I'll spam it on CS-related sites whenever volvo fixes something
"Fixed hitbox issues."
"Thank you for coliru"
best meme
@Griwes at this hour yes
it's 4:30 am
wondering why I'm still not asleep
one beer = sleep mode
 
1:34 AM
Hi all
 
@AnirudhRamanathan Hi
 
@Jefffrey, How's it going?
 
Ok
 
I was wondering if people are in favor of naming their structs with "something_t". Do you find that better or worse than just using "Something" ?
 
what's _t there for?
 
1:38 AM
_t is recently used for shorthand type traits
like T::type is T_t instead
size_t is C garbage
 
@AnirudhRamanathan Something something;
^ proper way
 
I can imagine the thought process.
 
but really, just use something
 
I see. I always read that to mean "something_type"
Hmm..
 
it probably does if you want to use it that way
 
1:39 AM
Also use snake case for types
 
"We need something for size, but size is too common a variable/function name to use for a type"
 
in the same way people use k_ for constants
wtf is even konstant anyway
 
snakeCase but not under_scores?
 
snake_case is underscores
 
That's pascal or camel case, not snake case.
 
1:40 AM
Ah
 
that's not snake case it's cobol case
 
snake_case
 
java case is likeThat
you need C# case
_likeThat
 
Bjarne_case
Stormtrup_Case
 
1:41 AM
there's probably no scott case
but if it were, I bet it'd be as fabulous as his hair
 
I don't even try to get the surname right anymore
 
Stroustrup
It's not hard to type, just to pronounce
 
stormtrooper is easier to remember though
 
yeah
 
Maybe not so hard to pronounce if you're Danish
 
1:42 AM
@AnirudhRamanathan _t is short for type. size_t -> size_type, std::enable_if_t -> std::enable_if<...>::type
 
@Rapptz What does enable_if_t do?
 
short hand for what I showed you
 
Is it something that is evaluated at compile-time?
 
yes
 
I mean what purpose is it used for? It seemed somewhat like Java's Reflection.
I never really understood traits.
 
1:45 AM
Beeeer
 
Substitution failure is not an error (SFINAE) refers to a situation in C++ where an invalid substitution of template parameters is not in itself an error. David Vandevoorde first introduced the acronym SFINAE to describe related programming techniques. Specifically, when creating a candidate set for overload resolution, some (or all) candidates of that set may be the result of instantiated templates with (potentially deduced) template arguments substituted for the corresponding template parameters. If an error occurs during the substitution of a set of arguments for any given template, the compiler...
 
Happy Saturday
Sunday
whatever
 
@Rapptz, I have seen SFINAE before. My question was more along under what circumstances people find it useful to use that function. I think I found some uses in the documentation though.
 
It's not a function.
 
I want this but I don't like the mouth ebay.co.uk/itm/…
srsly we need a way to like
3D print what you have in mind via some mind reader
holy shit
 
1:47 AM
@AnirudhRamanathan It's compile-time. C++ doesn't have reflection, but lots of things that are normally done in Java at run-time can be done with some combination of SFINAE and traits at compile-time in C++.
 
It's to enable or disable specific overloads, functions, etc.
It's in the name.
example here
 
Yeah. Got it. ty
Looks very useful.
 
Bit less useful when concepts come around
bool is_odd(Integral num) {return num % 2 == 1;}
 
Like Haskell typeclasses by the looks of it.
 
concepts lite is kinda lame
 
1:52 AM
The examples on wikipedia reminded me more of Java's bounded quantification used alongside generics.
 
@Rapptz Are we getting lite or full concepts? I thought lite didn't include things like defining your own concepts, which we are getting AFAICT.
 
Typeclasses are so useful. How would this slim down template errors though?
 
it would just say you failed a concept violation instead of the backtrace saying substitution failure occurred
@chris Concepts Lite.
It's just syntactic sugar for enable_if and concept-based overloading
the latter being the only good part about it
 
> error: Constraint 'Integral' not satisfied by type 'double'
Something like that.
Given all the flak C++ gets for template errors, it's nice to easily be able to simplify a lot of them.
 
@chris, I don't see the kind of use you showed above with is_odd. By the looks of it, both Axioms and Constraints seem to provide bounded quantification only.
 
1:57 AM
Concepts Lite doesn't include axioms
 
is_integral<T> sort of bounds on a type is quite different from using Integral as a "typeclass" as shown above IMO.
...the latter being more flexible.
 
..?
how would it be different
I wonder how axioms would avoid runtime overhead
 
Maybe optional overhead like contracts.
 
@AlexM. Where?! I've been meaning to meet this holy feces many have been talking about.
 
@Nooble welp last I saw LRiO was answering to messages addressed to god
so you might want to check there
 
2:04 AM
:P
 
@Rapptz My mistake. They're not inherently different. The syntax threw me off. :)
 
I wanna buy a gun but there are no guns in romania
damn
 
Why would axioms incur runtime overhead?
@Rapptz ^
 
like nobody owns a gun wtf
 
They are runtime checks.
 
2:07 AM
only rifles for hunting
or are those shotguns
w/e
@Nooble how many guns do you own
you're from the US so you have to own guns
 
Sadly none.
 
you must be a disgrace to all that's freedom
 
I am.
I ride an eagle to school everyday though.
 
@Rapptz Axioms don't look like they're checks really. They seem (by name and usage) like assumptions that the compiler can simply make whilst optimizing code .
 
2:13 AM
They are the semantic property of a concept.
If they were just assumptions no one would care about them being gone I imagine.
They are meant to be checked.
 
@AlexM. Well if I was going to buy a gun, I'd probably buy a semi-automatic long range rifle or something.
 
But I might be wrong too.
I haven't read the concept specification (C++0x) in a long time.
 
Did you guys know about cppquiz
 
@Rapptz It is impossible to check at compile-time, being semantic requirements that can't be judged statically. Maybe there is a mode in which you perform actual runtime checks, but for most part, I would say they are truly axioms, in that they are considered "truths" that the programmer has written down, which aren't checked but assumed and used in optimizations.
 
I'd bring that everywhere for defense only of course.
 
2:18 AM
did you buy cs yet
 
No :(
 
I'd support you if you'd get it but only spiritually
because we're separated by ~150 units of ping
 
@Prismatic, Nice.. Template alias declarations resolve to a new family of types. I did not know that.
Seems logical. If you alias them, you could also want them to be specialized in a different way with the alias.
 
I want to sleep so bad but my beer isn't finished
 
Chug it!
 
2:19 AM
that would ruin the lovely...
 
@Prismatic I found them good in general.
 
burnt wood with toffee hints taste
 
> If our leaders have taught us anything it's that you should never let the law get in the way of profits.
 
noo
beer's over
kaputt
 
@AlexM. How many down? ;)
 
2:31 AM
one bro
i'm going straight to sleep now after I finish reading this thing here
 
Damn.. But it's Saturday night. One is simply the beginning.
 
i need to go to sleep now because in like an hour or two my neighbor's gonna wake up
and take her dog out and make noises outside
that always happen on sundays
i wish pets were banned everywhere in apartment blocks
unless they're not noisy
like hedgehogs and lizards
those are ok
 
Heh.. Noisy pets and annoying pet owners suck. I sleep with earphones blaring. Predictable noise is preferable to random noise.
Tesla was hacked :-o
 
yeah imagine this car crash with people killed
and on the dashboard something like "haXXed bY anoNym0US br@ng fre33dom in S0mali@ 2015"
 
That would really suck. In this instance, it was the website and the twitter account that were hacked though.
Something is up with Twitter's security for sure.
 
2:37 AM
what kind of a relaxed mind must one have to even think about spending effort to hack some website and twitter account
anyway, off to sleep
cyaa~
 
Good night @AlexM.
 
I had to come back to fix grammer lols
cya for good now tho
 
3:06 AM
Such fair argumentation.
We need more of this.
Instead of rants.
Ok. Time for anime.
Latest ep of OP should be available soon.
 
3:25 AM
Has anyone successfully employed a software oriented performance optimization strategy* to every day life problems? I've sped up code by factor of 100x or more several times -- imagine if we could improve every day things like that?
* like 1) define objective (e.g. process million transactions / second), 2) measure/profile, 3) make changes based on profile to improve performance, 4) repeat 2-3 as necessary
I'm imagining a CEO wandering around the office and sampling the stack by asking random people what they are doing at any given time, then thinking about why they were doing it and how to speed up productivity
 
@JDiMatteo Tried many of those in real life. I schedule activities that way as well; to optimize efficiency and productivity. It works till there is some novelty to it and then it gets hard to get the same speedup. Turns out monotony is bad for humans and great for computers.
 
yeah, I guess poor man's profiling wouldn't work so well for that CEO if every employee was doing something seemingly unique each time... I guess life seems richer in diversity and less structured compared to what a typical high performance program does
if only I could get a 400x improvement in my salary in the time it takes me to speed up a program by a factor of 400, lol
 
Haha.. that would be ideal.
 
beeer
 
@JDiMatteo That sort of thing is normally referred to as "Methods engineering". The general idea of using it to manage people is (or at least once was) referred to as "Scientific Management".
 
4:23 AM
@JerryCoffin thanks, it is nice to see a term for what I had in mind. Too bad the Wikipedia article says it was obsolete over 100 years ago. seems kind of funny how it was documented to work except that it pissed off people to such an extent that it became counter productive in many cases
 
panic
 
@jalf lol, nice.
 
That's my old building & a cute that chose to camp outside >_<
iphone 6 does have a good camera
 
4:32 AM
@StackedCrooked A rant is different primarily stylistically.
There's no reason a rant cannot have fair arguments.
What makes it a rant is the style of presentation, not the validity of the arguments.
 
I wouldn't know how to deal with that
I'm pretty scared of spiders
I'd probably just throw tennis balls at its web until it moved somewhere else
 
I saw a huge one today at the library; hanging from one of the lights. The bigger ones are scarier to kill because of the scrunching noise they'll make
 
why do you want to kill every spider or drive them away, lol
most spiders are harmless
 
Because they crawl into ears and lay eggs in our brains.
 
...
if it's that easy I am sure most of us would have spider babies crawling inside our brains
 
4:42 AM
Why is the Loungecpp site down?
nvm.. it's just me.
 
I am the 'no kill unless the thing offends me' kind of person
 
spiders bug me (haha get it?) because they are so fast and so sneaky
Also because google has shown me the wonderful world of necrotic spider bites
 
But they don't go after you, do they? Have you ever got stalked by a spider?
 
some spiders are aggressive and will attack you
 
spiders usually attack when disturbed
 
4:46 AM
once I was in these botanical gardens and they had similar spiders to the one you posted
I disturbed its web by accident and the thing just ran at me
fucking terrifying
It might have thought a bug landed in its web, idunno
@chmod711telkitty So I'm just supposed to leave it alone if it sets up camp in my house? Screw that
 
Looks like it is this kind of spiders: spiders.com.au/st-andrews-spider.html
 
5:09 AM
Goooooooooooooooood morning, campers
@Prismatic ISWYDT
yay I finally got the bronze badge
next up:
brilliant
 
Ultron is good by the way
 
MonoDevelop is so bad
 
5:37 AM
I love Clang, don't get me wrong, but sometimes it's a bit dumb:
if(httpError != QHttpSocket::NoError) {
    switch(httpError) {
        /***/
    }
}
Yields:
warning: enumeration value 'NoError' not handled in switch
Erm... of course it's not handled in the switch because it will never be set to that value.
 
5:49 AM
default: break;
GCC is annoying with that stuff too
 
6:02 AM
@NathanOsman Cleaner (IMO) to use just the switch statement (with case httpError: break;) instead of nesting the switch inside an if.
 
Right, but I've got stuff in that scope after the switch(...) too, I just simplified the example.
 
6:47 AM
So much for: "We should be more welcoming to newcomers."
 
@Prismatic My best time is 41.6.
 
When I was a kid I had this weird cube that split diagonally on two opposing faces. I could never solve it
 
No. Only two of the faces (lets say top, bottom) had diagonals and there were more than two diagonals. The four side faces were all squares though... I think.
 
7:01 AM
Oh. Never seen that.
 
thats how the top and bottom looked
 
Ah, a Square-1.
I have one of those. Haven't solved it.
 
yes! curse this stupid nightmarish thing
Now I feel like I need to buy one again (I have no idea where my original one went) and solve it because I never could as a kid
 
I actually can't solve any of the non-regular cubes I own.
Well, except the geared ones.
 
@Prismatic One of my coworkers has one of those. I did solve it once, but it took quite a while, and I'm not at all confident that I could again.
 
7:08 AM
> If different rotations of a given permutation are counted only once while reflections are counted individually, there are 170 × 2 × 8! × 8! = 552,738,816,000 positions.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes have you solved the one with the whole in the middle? I have it but haven't really figured out a way to keep track of which side should be which :/
 
So uh can I speak to a mod?
It's been awhile since I've been able to ask a question and I recently hit 500 rep
 
None exist. Flag a post for mod attention or take it to meta
 
@sehe Isnt the system automated?
 
Isn't rhetorics old?
 
7:12 AM
Do you use cube lube
 
@sehe ugh why must you do this to me master
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes people with children can be very nice, you know
@Prismatic I use just wd-40 or vaseline (for Rubik's cubes - out-of-context protection)
 
anyways off to bed to dream about cubes, night all
 
@sehe okay, dad
 
I can solve the 2x2x2, 3x3x3, 4x4x4, 5x5x5, 7x7x7, the Skewb, the twin, triplet, and quadruplet 2x2x2s, the Void cube, ...
 
7:14 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes this is proof you're off-balance
 
... the megaminx, the pyraminx, the gear ball, and a bunch of others that reduce to some of these but are shape mods.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the Void Cube is the one I meant
 
@sehe Get some corners in place first and use them as guides.
 
Today I announce that I am creating a new dialect of C that replaces pointers with porcupines for more automated pointiness
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes okay. I assume the corners still have to be in proper order
 
7:16 AM
@sehe Nah. Just say, pair two side by side with green facing the same way, and work from there.
There are no parity errors.
If you can have two adjacent corners with the same colors on the same sides, they can only be in the right position relative to each other.
yesterday, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Borgleader Well, not for being friends, I guess.
@sehe I live with some, btw.
 
:) just saying. I know some nice people with children. They make good friends
 
@sehe I hate it, but that's probably because mine turns like shit and has a non-standard colour scheme.
 
I'll have to figure out how to lube the void cube...
Anyways, I'm off to rehearsal. I feel like I've been hit by a truck.
More big band workshops today :)
 
ITT sehe reminds others that he could be nice
wtf 'm' so close to 'n', nearly typed 'mice' instead of 'nice'
 
@sehe Oh, never mind what I said about parity errors. What I said about corners still works, but it seems there are parity errors. I never realised that. Maybe I should play a bit more with mine.
.@SonyPictures I think those hackers last year left a virus, since your movie franchises are constantly rebooting now.
 
7:57 AM
-5
Q: Why is char from -128 rather than -127 on C++14?

CinchEdit: I've decided to undelete this question because I feel that its low rep might be keeping me back. I have a desire to improve the question and will shortly be posting an answer answering this question. Why were char ever defined as ones' complement rather than twos', and what was their reaso...

> Why were char ever defined as ones' complement rather than twos'
wat
 
@Cinch char was never one's nor two's complement.
One's complement and two's complement are representations. char objects are numbers.
 
-9
Q: Why must C++ syntax be so uptight in regards to modulus?

Adam Yamada KellyI have just started making hashing functions for a C++ class lab and I have to ask, why must the syntax be a % b for modulus and not a%b? I'm allowed to do a+b and a*b, but I need an extra space for modulus or else I get some weird values for an int array I was creating?

lolwat
 
Ven
"what will c++17 be" (just in case it wasn't linked here)
 
8:17 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know
I just edited the question for clarity
@R.MartinhoFernandes Now if you are gonna downvote me for reopening and trying to help my own question I'm never going to ask another question on SO
 
@Cinch Was he mean to you?
 
@fredoverflow I have -6 on a question and I'm angry because I've been question banned for awhile after fixing the rest of my questions
 
Don't take it personally.
 
-6 means there are 5 other people whom you want to smash
 
@Ven Are you the guy who invented Ven diagrams?
 
Ven
8:27 AM
@fredoverflow nope, but I created the word "venn" in finish
 
Ugh
Whyyyyy
 
Ven
So, what does the lounge think about operator dot?
 
@Ven How does it work?
 
@fredoverflow what.
 
@Cinch I want to see an example of operator dot.
 
Ven
8:37 AM
@fredoverflow No idea, it's in the link I linked earlier from bjarne. "• operator dot (to finally get proxies and smart references)"
 
So is operator dot basically the same as operator arrow, but for values, not pointers?
 
@fredoverflow ???
is that even a standard character?
 
Ven
@fredoverflow think so
 
there we go, all booked up :D
 
@Cinch Are you fucking kidding me? Can you spot the dot in my_vector.push_back(42);?
 
8:44 AM
@fredoverflow No I meant •
 
#define • .
@Cinch There you go.
 
@fredoverflow ???
But then we...
 
In case you prefer • to . for whatever reason.
 
Ven
@Cinch that's a bullet point ...
 
Does C++17 need operator bullet point for list literals?
 
8:47 AM
@Ven I don't have a bullet point on my keyboard
 
std::vector<int> primes {
    • 2
    • 3
    • 5
    • 7
};
 
Ven
/me sighs
 
@chmod711telkitty ...
 
@chmod711telkitty The error seems to be related to Java heap space in some way.
 
8:51 AM
@fredoverflow It has to be the stack.
 
such a detailed error message, leaving me speechless ...
 

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