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12:00 PM
:22932606 Not understood by many.
 
It is, because most people are incapable of understanding it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "geheimnisvoll"
That's like uncanny.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well duh.
 
Not unpopular
 
But math used to be reserved for the elite
 
12:00 PM
@Griwes Dude, stop.
 
Now the common man has had at least some minor exposure to it.
 
You're just wanking here.
 
@Columbo No.
 
Probably major
 
@Cinch Programming was never something of elites.
 
12:01 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes it was!
 
I am the elite.
 
A hacker is an adherent of the subculture that originally emerged in academia in the 1960s, around the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)'s Tech Model Railroad Club (TMRC) and MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. A hacker is one who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming and circumventing limitations of programming systems and who tries to extend their capabilities. The act of engaging in activities (such as programming or other media) in a spirit of playfulness and exploration is termed hacking. However the defining characteristic of a hacker is not the activities...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But it's not for the common man yet
 
@Columbo No, I'm just realistic - by the way that fact generally makes me sad :/
 
@Cinch Just like basic geometry!
 
12:01 PM
> omg everyone else is so moronic, awful :(
wanker, you are
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes To me, programming is probably much more mappable to everyday life because its underlying concepts are so helpful
 
@Columbo No, just someone who realizes that not all people are smart.
 
programming is reasoning and logic--both have been core parts of education since the classical era
 
...while also not asserting that I'm the smartest of all at the same time.
@Cinch And reasoning and logic is exactly what most people don't understand... :P
 
@Griwes Trust me, people are not engaging in maths because they don't want to, not because of non-existent incapabilities
 
12:02 PM
@Cinch Reasoning and logic is not appealing to every pupil.
 
I mean, most
 
@Griwes Which is why programming would be good for reinforcement of this in a more natural way than math.
 
Some are stupid of course, since intelligence is normally distributed
 
I'd argue that programming is a better tool than math to teach reasoning
 
@Columbo Dude. I've seen it - seen people trying and failing hard at the basics.
 
12:03 PM
@Griwes Who do you "work with", then?
 
It's much more natural to take on an imperative role with programming than a more "cooperative" role with math
 
user1804599
m \div,
    * m \h1, 'Dashboard'
    * m \ul, controller.posts.map (post) ->
        m \li,
            * m \article,
                * m \h1, post.title!
 
user1804599
LiveScript is awesome!
 
@Columbo Regular people - I mostly mean people I've met in high school and at university.
@rightfold no it's not
 
now that's just weird @rightfold
 
user1804599
12:04 PM
Wtf dat flag.
 
@rightfold flagged because code that isn't c++ was posted in the c++ lounge
 
user1804599
@Griwes :(
 
@Columbo Are you fucking kidding me?
 
@fredoverflow No, sir, not at all
 
Star on a flag... should this become the official Lounge ensign?
 
12:05 PM
@fredoverflow Fredoverflu
:D
 
user image
3
preserved for future generations
 
I'll star that.
 
@fredoverflow that's so meta
well no actually it's not meta
there's no code in it
 
@Cinch an imperative role?
You can't teach people something they don't want to learn.
 
@AndyProwl Wait 'til you see this:
 
12:09 PM
What makes programming so different from mathematics anyway?
 
@fredoverflow lol tempted to flag it for more meta
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Programs are kind of executable math.
 
meta is meat rearranged
 
> Hey handsom, I saw you on a match site sometime last week, i got some naughtypix 4 ya.. text my num real fast its 1~484~734~0901. Im just a 24 year old female. Im lookin to meet new guys and maybe hookup. text me when you get a moment plz.
All these mails follow the exact same pattern
 
12:23 PM
I like how you titled that "Why" and wrote the "how".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Idea for the T-Shirt back: That star and flag-sign united, below the message "Unfortunately funny" or the like
Unless you got somethin' already?
Yey, my first tweet
How do you confuse a Google programmer? With references! http://bit.ly/1GwmPCR
 
Lame. ;P
 
@Columbo I got your reference.
 
@Griwes It's my first time, I'm not that experienced.
 
@Cinch That's so much less lame than the tweet itself. :D
 
12:32 PM
how do references even confuse people wtf
 
I got the feeling that I'll be thinking about funny material for tweets 24/7 now
 
@AlexM. Because they couldn't find their atlas.
 
@Griwes What's the sound of me banging your head against a wooden table? Plonk plonk plonk
6
 
@Columbo lol
 
greetings fellaz
 
user1804599
12:42 PM
!!!THIS CODE IS TERRIBLE!!! is a valid LiveScript expression.
2
 
user1804599
It compiles to !THIS(CODE(IS(TERRIBLE()()()))), lol.
 
Terrible.
 
@Columbo are you available on either freenode or EFNet?
 
Ven
@Griwes why
 
@Ven It even says so!
 
Ven
12:45 PM
@Griwes touché!
@Columbo google created go because "google programmers weren't smart enough for the rest", so.
 
@FilipRoséen-refp Why? If you want to contact me, take my email-
@Ven Also, they like horrible puns
 
@Columbo I'd rather have quicker means of communication for what I'm going to talk to you about
 
@FilipRoséen-refp Okay, I can never decide on which IRC client to use, but IIRC there is Kiwi
@FilipRoséen-refp Which channel?
 
@Columbo /msg refp PING on freenode
 
@FilipRoséen-refp Wait, why don't we simply create a channel here? Or is that supposed to be more confidential?
@FilipRoséen-refp I tried pinging you, did you get sth.?
 
12:53 PM
Gooooooooooood moooorining
 
1:07 PM
I hate you -.-
 
I don't
I don't like strawberries that much
and milk
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
Mithril is great.
 
what's mithril
 
Yo guys quick question regarding style. Yes or no on getters/setters for record-style classes?
 
1:23 PM
example?
 
149
A: Why use getters and setters?

R. Martinho FernandesA public field is not worse than a getter/setter pair that does nothing except returning the field and assigning to it. First, it's clear that (in most languages) there is no functional difference. Any difference must be in other factors, like maintainability or readability. An oft-mentioned adv...

 
though tbh
I only use setters for readonly fields in classes (for the outside)
otherwise if they don't add any special functionality besides field = value and return field
 
just a record class. name/surname/ids etc.
 
it's just cruft that I won't add to my code
yes don't use it there
struct Person { std::string Name; ... }
 
good. I was just arguing with one of our professors since he was lecturing that we shouldn't use public members.
 
1:26 PM
> I only use setters for readonly fields in classes (for the outside)
I meant getters here
@Veritas don't argue with professors, it's a waste of time
actually college is a waste of time but there you go :A
 
it's not when it comes to team projects. Everyone picks the bad habbits.
As for colleges being useless, it depends on the college plus it's free over here.
 
team projects are a waste of time too
I worked ~1 hour on mine so that teammates wouldn't be angry at me passing without doing sth
I think I did some copy/paste from some PHP framework tutorial too lol
 
Ven
i'm currently doing an ios team project.
kill me please
 
@Veritas better yet, favor immutability
 
@Puppy I don't think I'll use N objects of T as the measurement of space after all
 
1:32 PM
I remember reading a bit on the framework before doing the thing and it occurred to me that nobody in the team was following any guidelines set by the developers so I naturally asked "here it says that we could do <X> which is easier, why is the project not like that?"
"One sec I'll ask <guy who chose the framework>"
 
@Puppy it's misleading, because alignment and reallocation does not mean that N * T storage is always enough to store N * T elements
 
"Yeah you're right it would've been easier that way"
I was like, what
 
So I'll have two classes, arena<N> that holds N bytes of stack storage, and arena_alloc<T, new_fallback=true> that is initialized with an arena, that will allocate using space in the arena, and if it's full use ::operator new (unless new_fallback == false, then it will throw std::bad_alloc).
 
@ScarletAmaranth hey, you in Slovakia, right?
Anywhere near Bratislava?
 
Ven
lol xcode.
refactors "if !x {}" to "if !(x != nil) {}"
 
1:47 PM
@AlexM. Oh, so you are that guy. >:(
 
I felt bad when I got a 7/10 instead of a 5/10
I didn't deserve that grade
so I'm an asshole with a heart of gold :P
and modesty
 
@Ven Good
 
Ven
@Jefffrey please fix my tools :(
 
this is interesting reddit.com/r/TheWayWeWere
it's full of old pics
 
0
Q: The Philosophy of Atomic Coding

CinchProposal: Atomic Coding Obviously, it would be a huge undertaking to simply throw out questions and topics randomly, so there must be some sort of administration process to decide which questions are "proper" or "organized." This is an overview of the proposed process: Philosophy Atomic Codi...

I wrote up a thing for Programming Tutorials -> Atomic Coding
 
Doesn't seem to have much to do with camels.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am from "Košice", eastern Slovakia (~400km away from Bratislava); why?
 
@LightningRacisinObrit Oh I just wanted to ping you.
 
I need to go somewhere with a beach
 
2:00 PM
@LightningRacisinObrit uhhh; UK? beaches planty
 
I mean nice ones
in an exotic place
 
Beach please
 
hawaii
 
I like Bulgaria, but not many do :(
 
bulgaria is not exotic
hawaii is
 
2:03 PM
@LightningRacisinObrit Hawaii
 
wheee
I think I shall book some time off at the end of May; make the most of the bank holiday
and spend money I don't have on a little trip
it's really nice outside today and it makes me sad
 
@LightningRacisinObrit aw.
 
think I'll go for a long walk in the sun
 
@LightningRacisinObrit k
bye tomalak
 
@Scarlet ah. Pity. I'll probably be in Bratislava sometime this week.
If you were nearby we could grab a drink.
 
2:11 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you're cycling through? or is that your destination for some reason?
 
in Python, yesterday, by DSM
There's always Lounge<C++>, although I'd recommend you install every safe-browsing plugin you can find, and read the screen through your fingers.
loool
 
Not cycling, no.
 
why would you go there then :P? it's really not that great of a city - considering Vienna is very close and incomparably more beautiful
 
Just a spontaneous road trip that materialised yesterday.
 
this is a valid workaround, right? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/dc34599a1e2fe930
the problem is that some compiler versions only define ::max_align_t, not std::max_align_t
 
2:14 PM
We still haven't picked a destination
But Bratislava was an option as it is in a country none of us has been to.
 
you execute plans fast I must say - "how about a roadtrip... next week ^^"
 
Nah.
More like "I have next week off" "I'm unemployed! Let's make a road trip! "
 
I see; fair enough; if you have seen Vienna and Prague already, it's a reasonable option I suppose
we have DIS in Kosice
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you should visit nederland
 
2:22 PM
@orlp Yes, yes it does.
 
I've settled on a middle ground
arena<N, T=char>
 
@Columbo take 3 . intersperse 'o' $ repeat 'l'
 
@Puppy only if you call reserve immediately
which I added as a warning to the documentation
 
arenas and small object buffers are differentthings
@orlp oh i see what you meam
 
@Jefffrey who flagged this?
 
2:24 PM
quality flag
 
@Borgleader me, obviously
 
flagging system working as intended
 
@Columbo i am disappoint
 
@Borgleader i am columbo
 
well played
 
user1804599
Then also bring exception specifications back.
 
user1804599
> Initializing or assigning to such pointer is valid only if the contracts are equal.
 
user1804599
Terrible; halting problem.
 
user1804599
Unless it's about half-assed non-Turing-complete contracts.
 
2:33 PM
They probably mean token-equality, just like in the ODR.
 
user1804599
Eww.
 
user1804599
Refactoring nightmare.
 
user1804599
C++ already supported contract programming before C++11 and they removed it.
 
@rightfold I'll bite. How did you do contract programming before C++11?
 
user1804599
void f() throw(T) { … }.
 
user1804599
2:39 PM
It was crappily limited, of course.
 
user1804599
For example, it didn't work well at all with HOFs.
 
I wouldn't call exception specification "contract programming".
 
user1804599
Unlike in Mill. :3
 
Exception specification is a very small part of contracts in general.
 
..........
 
user1804599
2:40 PM
func map(xs: List('t), f: Sub('t, 'u)): List('u)
throw from f # map can throw any exception f can throw, but nothing else
{ … }
 
user1804599
In Mill you can do this.
 
That's actually nice
 
@rightfold what is the tick mark
 
user1804599
I'm not sure about generic subroutines yet.
 
Ven
@Cinch lifetimes : )
 
2:43 PM
@rightfold C with classes had before and after keywords, IIRC.
 
user1804599
No. :(
 
@Ven ...
 
Ven
@rightfold that looks exactly like what I said I'd like, that time we talked about exception specifications
 
user1804599
If you want to specify something can never throw, you write throw Nothing as the specification. :D
 
user1804599
This works because Nothing is the bottom type, which is a subtype of Exception and has no values.
 
user1804599
2:44 PM
And it reads nicely!
 
user1804599
The implementation is easy too; synthesise a try/catch expression around the subroutine body which inspects the callstack of the exception and sees whether f occurs in it.
 
user1804599
And if it doesn't, terminate the program due to contract violation. Otherwise rethrow.
 
@rightfold Aha, so we DO have a stack
Oh right I better get to writing that virtual machine
 
user1804599
Uh, of course.
 
user1804599
I never said there was no call stack.
 
2:47 PM
@rightfold A lot easier to just fail if f() throws rather than propagating.
 
user1804599
Why?
 
user1804599
Also f may be passed to something else inside of map.
 
because it hooks nicely into regular code generation.
 
user1804599
It still participates in the check.
 
@rightfold I don't see what difference that makes. Then it'll be the "something else"'s problem.
 
user1804599
2:49 PM
func map(xs: List('t), f: Sub('t, 'u)): List('u)
throw from f
{
    map-tailrec(xs, f, list()) # contract still applies even though f is called by someone else
}
 
is it guaranteed that sizeof(max_align_t) >= sizeof(void*)?
 
er, dunno.
 
lol
 
Alrighty time to start downloading LLVM
 
it's supposed to have an alignment requirement 'bigger than every scalar'
 
2:50 PM
@rightfold This is fine if map-tailrec has the same contract. then map doesn't need to handle anything.
 
user1804599
Ask on Stack Overflow and farm shitloads of rep.
 
user1804599
@Puppy map-tailrec may have a looser contract.
 
Or rather...
Boost.Spirit first
 
that call should be banned statically then
 
user1804599
No, of course not.
 
2:51 PM
actually, what I meant is is alignof(max_align_t) >= sizeof(void*)
 
it clearly should be.
 
user1804599
No, then everything would be dynamically typed except this one thing.
 
user1804599
That would be horribly surprising and inconsistent.
 
oh yeah I forgot that it was pointlessly dynamic.
 
@Puppy because of std::uintptr_t?
 
user1804599
2:52 PM
You'd run into Java shenanigans.
 
user1804599
The default exception specification is throw Exception.
 
@rightfold Only if you can't properly infer the relevant details.
 
@rightfold And you wrote the virtual machine using... C++?
 
user1804599
Absolutely.
 
user1804599
The code is very simple.
 
3:00 PM
I've really sucked at markdown recently...
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
Because throwing D6 and doing (result-1)%3+1 is too hard
Hmmm, you could simulate every dice with enough number of coins.
 
user1804599
With a single coin.
 
user1804599
Just throw it many times.
 
@milleniumbug Or just result /2
 
user1804599
3:13 PM
No.
 
user1804599
5/2 isn't an integer.
 
round up.
 
x / y should never be an integer
 
user1804599
Wrong.
 
user1804599
2/1 definitely an integer.
 
3:23 PM
The fact that for some x and y the result has all 0s as decimal digits is totally irrelevant.
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
wtf is alignas(f()). Is it the same as alignas(decltype(f()))?
 
@milleniumbug alignas can take an expression
 
Oh wait, two-phase lookup
 
3:25 PM
so alignas(4) aligns to 4 bytes
 
@orlp A::f()
 
@milleniumbug why would that matter?
B derives from A
 
user1804599
B is a template.
 
 
user1804599
Works in clang. vOv
 
3:27 PM
Ok, A isn't a template. Nevermind then.
 
@rightfold my clang on my machine is broken :(
 
user1804599
The one on Coliru isn't.
 
I installed g++-4.9, and since then clang tries to uses its headers
and they're incompatible
 
@AlexM. Still having fun with Kotlin? Here's a test function I wrote today:
test fun nearKeywords() {
    for (tok in '\u0000'..'\u0020') {
        val keyword = Token.toString(tok)
        val init = keyword.substring(0, keyword.length() - 1)
        val last = keyword.last()
        identifierRoundTrip(init)
        identifierRoundTrip(init + randomLetterOtherThan(last))
        identifierRoundTrip(keyword + randomLetter())
    }
}
Testing is a bit more fun when you write "test fun", isn't it? :)
 
user1804599
Pfft, that's longer than my authentication function in Haskell:
 
user1804599
3:30 PM
authenticate findUserByEmailAddress emailAddress password =
    (>>= authenticate') `fmap` findUserByEmailAddress emailAddress
    where authenticate' user
              | checkPassword (userPasswordHash user) password = Just user
              | otherwise = Nothing
 
Congratulations, you win today's "Haskell is more succinct than other languages" award!
 
user1804599
I want a function (?&) :: Maybe a -> Bool -> Maybe a.
 
I wish there was a more succinct way of writing keyword.substring(0, keyword.length() - 1). Maybe there is and I just don't know it yet.
Or I could just write an extension function for String :)
 
Xeo
@rightfold what should it do? leave as-is (true) or make Nothing (false)?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
3:32 PM
@fredoverflow haven't written any in a while
then again, I haven't written any code at home in months :\
 
user1804599
(?&) :: Maybe a -> Bool -> Maybe a
m ?& True = m
_ ?& False = Nothing
 
CS is so much more fun
 
user1804599
? for "maybe" and & for "and". :D
 
> Are you sure you really don't want to undo the change revert?
 
user1804599
Also, I found this funny code:
 
user1804599
3:33 PM
newtype Password = Password Text
instance Show Password where
    show _ = "Password \"********\""
 
That's funny indeed.
 
user1804599
It allows for logging structures that contain passwords.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow My avatar absorbed yours.
 
@rightfold Was that a coincidence? Or did you design it that way?
 
user1804599
3:35 PM
It was a coincidence.
 
Apr 23 at 13:35, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Xeo it's also a Polish brand of ketchup
 
Fcuk
dem repost
 
user1804599
crazy poles
 
@chmod711telkitty There seems to be so many of them.
 
user1804599
3:39 PM
Hmm.
 
user1804599
With out parameters, you don't need overloading on the return type!
 
user1804599
And monads become feasible in a dynamically-typed language!
 
Kotlin's logo is a bit unfortunate, isn't it?
 
dicklin
koklin
 
3:54 PM
@orlp Keep in mind this is gcc, so it's following the GNU philosophy. Just as source code that's too free isn't accepted as Free, constants that are too constant aren't accepted as constant.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Have you done anything with it in the interim? :)
 
Fuck me, I'm sobering up;(
 
@MartinJames you know
the answer is yes, you ask the question :)
 

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