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user1804599
Somebody just threatened me with a mousetrap.
 
user1804599
@AlexM. yes.
 
Player { name : String, hp : Health }

damage :: Health -> Health
damage = (-10)

liftToPlayerHp damage :: Player -> Player
@AlexM. something like that
 
user1804599
Make getRekt return a new Character.
 
12:01 PM
if hp is a lens, liftToPlayerXYZ becomes zoom (or just %~ / "modify")
 
Wait, freta are straits, not seas.
Seas are maria.
 
@AlexM. the whole concept of lifting allows you to use less specialized functions in more specialized context, e.g. pure functions in monadic or applicative contexts
 
user1804599
 
composition with a lens lifts a function to a data accessor, sort of.
 
user1804599
12:04 PM
partial functions in total contexts :3
 
lens + change function = a function changing an object property
@rightfold I think you got that backwards.
 
user1804599
nooo!
 
I don't really understand haskell but
 
@AlexM. it's not specific to Haskell
 
are you sure this stuff is better than health = health - damage?
 
user1804599
12:07 PM
I with you could overload function application in Haskell.
 
@AlexM. the point I'm trying to make for you is that what you see as one function can be seen as two: actual logic done, and the function that finds data in a structure
this separation is the main idea of lenses
it makes it easier to find common things between different "methods" and use that commonality
 
> Ananke: Goddess of fate and necessity, mother of Adrastea by Zeus.
Adrastea: A nymph of Crete to whose care Rhea entrusted the infant Zeus.
 
why are you reading mythology again
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, "backing".
 
12:13 PM
> meta::EnableIf<meta::Bool<(I < 4)>>
> syntax error : missing ')' before '<'
Does that mean VS thinks I is a template? Q_Q
 
@BartekBanachewicz I like soap operas.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz ideone.com/q8NZdv
 
What if you wrap I inside parentheses?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
12:14 PM
Or use 4 > I
 
> syntax error : missing 'sense' before 'we started coding VS'
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ahahah
 
meta::EnableIf<meta::Bool<((I) < 4)>>
> error C2059: syntax error : '<'
Just go fuck yourself.
 
std::less
 
12:15 PM
pahaha
actually lol'd, in my head
 
It was my fault, but fuck those error messages.
 
> actually
> in my head
 
I was a template?
 
typename I instead of int I.
 
Xeo
12:16 PM
lol
 
@LightningRacisinObrit Nah.
 
fail
 
those errors, then, seem fairly reasonable
 
Xeo
no they don't
 
Xeo
12:17 PM
they tell you about some expected internal stuff
 
well, other than that I could not have been a template
@Xeo yes like every C++ error ever. which is a good thing. compilers can't read minds and if they tried they would fail
 
@LightningRacisinObrit Even when people were all "OMG clang's error messages so much better than GCC's", GCC's error messages were not that bad.
 
I disagree but okay
 
ICBW but missing ')' before '<' does not look very reasonable
 
@LightningRacisinObrit This is the latest prerelease, btw. Not an ancient version of the compiler.
 
12:18 PM
@BartekBanachewicz that's not contradiction. The contradiction would be with "out-loud" <-> "in my head"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes I know
@sehe He fell for it and let's just leave it at that ;)
@R.MartinhoFernandes You tried to use a class name in a template argument as an int in an expression with >. Not sure what magical error message you expected.
 
@LightningRacisinObrit that too :)
 
> Someone in a movie theater asks you what row you’re sitting in. You are too lazy to count, so you ask the person in front of you. You simply have to add 1 from the person’s answer to get your current row number. Brilliant right? However, the person in front of you did exactly the same thing, and so on. Finally the question reaches row 1 and he answers: “I’m in row 1!”. From there, the correct message (incremented by one each row) will pass all the way up to the person who asked.
 
@fredoverflow except that the backrow is row 1 :(
 
@sehe hmpfh, what I meant was "lol'd actually <-> in my head", but w/e, I'll let you have the fun
 
12:21 PM
@LightningRacisinObrit Not some bullshit about syntax.
 
> fun
 
lol, clang gives "expected '>'"
 
ok, fine, this isn't bad @R.MartinhoFernandes @fredoverflow @Xeo
 
@LightningRacisinObrit Try clang.
 
12:22 PM
Yeah.
"clang is more like VS", said no one ever before :P
 
Anyway, impressed with GCC but I still say this is not a "VS just go fuck yourself" situation
@R.MartinhoFernandes you could flip that around and give yourself a hernia
 
Everyday is a "MSVC go fuck yourself situation".
"Of course, if you use VS, you only have yourself to blame" - Steve Bllamer
 
dat pun
 
@LightningRacisinObrit Fair enough. It was the cherry on top of several previous stupid failures with variadics.
 
punners, punners, punners
 
12:25 PM
Variadic templates, that feature that has supposedly been there since 2012. It still feels like they never touched it ever since.
 
> Q4 – What is the difference between Java and JavaScript? They are not related at all. Java and Javascript are similar like car and carpet are similar.
nice
 
inb4 cars with carpets inside
 
Xeo
Where Java is the carpet, actually, and JS with its V8 engine is the car.
 
sbi
@Puppy That's why I checked in here this morning and pinged you.
Look, this is all rather simple. Do you want to meet or not? If not, then that is fine by me. Last night I ended up in a pub with @jalf, James McNellis, Kate Gregory, Phil Nash, and a few other rather interesting people – so it's not like I would sit around twiddling my bored thumbs.
But I would like to get to know you, should you want.
 
Xeo
12:27 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Meanwhile loading Connect...
 
@sbi Phil Nash, the Catch author? Nice
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, rather: "Meanwhile in the standard..."
 
What a catch.
But, I'm sure there's a catch
 
sbi
@fredoverflow I didn't get to talk to him much last night, but he seems to be a rather likable guy.
 
Errm. Ignore me
 
12:29 PM
@sbi Does Kate work for Microsoft?
I have seen a talk by her and James, do they work together?
 
I should stop writing kotlin and get back to work
 
sbi
@fredoverflow She has her own consulting company, but is rather MS-centric.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes seems reasonable?
 
sbi
@fredoverflow They just gave that talk. :) Since I had seen it on YT already, I instead went to Kevlin Henney's talk on TDD. Kevlin is always great fun to listen to.
 
Oh, is there a conference? Which one?
 
sbi
12:31 PM
But @jalf told me that their talk was good.
 
@sbi Was it a theoretical talk? (hi!)
@fredoverflow ACCU I guess
 
sbi
@fredoverflow ACCU 2015
 
I regret a bit not to be there
 
sbi
@AndyProwl He wasn't coding live, if that's what you're asking.
 
@sehe Seems reasonable? I even provided a proper implementation. Yes, it may be conforming but fuck that. I want it to be conforming and useful.
@Xeo You don't need to fix the standard before making your implementation useful.
 
Xeo
12:33 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just send STL a mail with that rationale vOv
 
Close as "by-design" implies your design is willingly unhelpful. And fuck that.
 
Xeo
But on another topic, how can Connect be so infuriatingly slow?!
 
@sbi I meant if he was just discussing principles, guidelines, etc., or if he was also discussing concrete tools, making quantified comparison of TDD projects vs. non-TDD projects, etc. Basically, what kind of talk was it?
 
sbi
@AndyProwl As always with Kevlin, this was about conceptual things.
 
12:35 PM
Nice
Hope the video will be available
 
@sbi a rather dumb question: are you invited to those conferences or do you sign yourself up to them (and pay XXXX amount)
or does your company send you?
 
sbi
@chmod711telkitty The company I work for pays.
 
@Xeo IOW, the requirements of the standard are not everything. QoI matters.
 
Oo that makes sense, the usual way ...
 
So. CEO of Acronis wants me in Singapore. Hmmm.
That's awful nice. But I'm not the traveling type :(
 
12:40 PM
IMO there's one important difference between BYDESIGN and WONTFIX. The former means you explicitly want it to work that way. The latter only means you won't dedicate the time to make it work another way.
So yeah, BYDESIGN here really pisses me off.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah. You could of course ask what stops them changing it (inb4 "we don't want to break code that relies on the current behaviour)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Agreed
 
global economy must be really good, everyone's receiving invitations. Even me, I received 5 within the last 3 months
 
@chmod711telkitty Lucky girl. I didn't even get invited to birthday parties.
 
@LightningRacisinObrit +1 insightful
 
@fredoverflow Those are by head hunters. I have not applied for a job for ages. Not those companies are definitely interested in hiring me. But it seems everyone wants to interview me.
 
12:44 PM
@chmod711telkitty Good for you!
 
The worst thing: get invitation for interviews when you are not looking for a job, spend a day or two preparing for it, then not getting an offer
 
Ven
So, swift actually has somewhat good things. Too bad cocoa still blows
> C++ is too complicated for simple minds. When listening to these negative comments you need to consider the sources.
" Look at how good we are! These guys just aren't good!" I hate this kind of mentality :/
 
user1804599
Simplicity beats everything.
 
user1804599
Iota ftw.
 
Ven
12:54 PM
@rightfold and you're a C++ developer
 
user1804599
So?
 
> Holy shit, you just released a thousand screaming demons from that gummy bear.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes dat ad
 
12:56 PM
@Ven java folks think they can get away with it. C++ devs know how to focus on simplicity. Because they are accutely aware of the trauma that happens if forgotten
 
Ven
@sehe I guess your "troll" answer using boost yesterday was all about simplicity ;-)?
 
Yes
Well. About managed complexity. the key here is that the equivalent non-boost-supported solution would be horrendously inflexible/tied to assumptions/implementation
 
@Ven Wow, that's just a blanket ad hominem argument.
 
Ven
I'm not attacking him
 
I didn't think so
 
Ven
12:58 PM
I said yesterday I liked his solution. But the amount of learning you have to do to get to @sehe's level (in boost, at least) is insane
 
user1804599
ad homienem is when you use your homies in an argument
 
Ven
@sehe Definitely, but that's probably a debate of apparent simplicity VS actual simplicity?
 
user1804599
 
The key here is that everything is "malleable"/"mobile". If I wanted to change the point type? single line change. The coordinate system? Single line change. What if the input is not ccw? What if the input doesn't have the closing point? No problem. What if I wanted svg export? No problem, added. What if I wanted to parse from csv instead? No problem etc.
 

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