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2:00 PM
I want ping lists in chat
 
@BartekBanachewicz true :P
@BartekBanachewicz I see no penguin :(
oh wait, linux is supported :D
 
hmm, so, in the meantime waiting for the jam
maybe we could crowdwrite a "how to jam tip list"
 
yeah, I doubt I will be able to do the jam
how long you planning to do it?
 
@thecoshman all in the link
 
oh 6hrs :\ maybe
 
2:04 PM
hi hi can't wait to work with puppy
 
@BartekBanachewicz You're going to work at the Bristol kennels?
 
nah, we have a sorta agreement for the game jam
 
Orite..
inb4 dogfight.
 
man
ADB is such a good band
 
GDB also
 
2:09 PM
why have I stopped listening to them
so, ironically, I now need a way to bind data to functions in haskell
because those different implementations need both different kinds of cache and different kinds of functionality
hmm maybe I could use some rank-n magic
 
you know what would be fancy
if bartek changed his name to barteque
 
data LibraryState = Renderer r => forall r. LibraryState {
    graphicsState :: RendererState r,
    eventsState :: TQueue Event
}
man, if this compiles it's one of the most hip pieces of code I've ever written in haskell
 
Fuck this I'll just get the Free Starter Edition of the Intel® Integrated Native Developer Experience Starter Edition.
Why the fuck do I have to register you pricks
This is terrible
 
@ParkYoung-Bae because it's not free, it costs your personal information
 
Even worse than NVIDIA
 
2:16 PM
I bought a pendrive for my personal information once
 
NVIDIA requires approval oh my god
Only AMD is sane and allows downloads without entry barrier
 
@ParkYoung-Bae yeah, not sure how you can get worse than that
@ParkYoung-Bae maybe because their software is shitty
 
I have approval for p much everything at nvidia already thank god
but it's shitty alright
 
So, what to put in the name field. "Howaboutno Youfuckers" sounds good
Country Afghanistan
No that'll give me the FBI trojan enabled version of OpenCL
> This software is subject to the U.S. Export Administration Regulations and other U.S. law, and may not be exported or re-exported to certain countries ( Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria)
lol
NotSoOpenCL
 
2:20 PM
> main.cpp:49:47: error: template template argument has different template parameters than its corresponding template template parameter
:/
Ah fuck, a SFINAE int at the end. :/
 
hmpfh I know why my modules were so fucked up
Instead of expressing intent, I tightly coupled shit
 
Is there a "catch them all" thing like template<template<typename...> class Foo>? :/
 
more TMCs!
 
user3010322
Fuuuuck.
 
user3010322
Not reference counting. ;~;
 
2:24 PM
and instead of RankN, I can just fucking ignore the type as long as it fits my contract
yeah. Fuck you C++ users without concepts
 
class Renderer a where
    type RendererState
    contextRequirements :: a -> ContextRequirements
    initialRendererState :: ScreenSize -> IO RendererState
    render :: [DrawRequest] -> (MonadState RendererState m, MonadIO m) => m ()
there we go
 
17
Q: C++ variadic template template argument that matches any kind of parameters

Janick BernetI was wondering if it's possible to write a template function that can take any other arbitrary template as a parameter and properly match the template name (i.e. not just the resulting class). What I know to work is this: template<template<typename ...> class TemplateT, typename... TemplateP> v...

And I was already at that question some time before :/
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz That render signature looks jumbled up
 
@Xeo Should be RendererState a
wait fuck
 
Xeo
2:27 PM
That doesn't change the fact that you have the type class contexts in the middle of the signature :P
 
lol
you're right, of course
funny that it wasn't a parse error
Prelude> let a :: a -> (Num b => b) -> a; a x _ = x

<interactive>:2:10:
    Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: Num b => b
    Perhaps you intended to use RankNTypes or Rank2Types
    In the type signature for `a': a :: a -> (Num b => b) -> a
mmm that's implicit forall?
 
Xeo
Oh, RankN types
 
yeah, I'm using rankNTypes
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I guess?
 
data LibraryState = forall r. Renderer r => LibraryState { that's the syntax
 
user1804599
2:31 PM
LibertyState
 
hmm I just enabled AllowAmbiguousTypes
 
user3010322
This is strange...
 
user3010322
struct base_thing {};
struct my_thing : base_thing {};
const my_thing value = my_thing{};

const base_thing& f () {
     return value; // Not... allowed?
}
 
Xeo
that works if you fix the typos and stuff
 
user3010322
Woops.
 
user3010322
2:36 PM
It does in Coliru, but VC++ is choking on me.
 
Xeo
you're doing it wrong
 
user3010322
Probably. Lemme test some more stuff.
 
Xeo
(is my_thing a class and you forgot public for the base?)
 
user3010322
struct value : public value_type { ... };
 
user3010322
Looks alright to me.
 
Xeo
2:39 PM
well then you're doing it wrong somewhere else
 
this chick is HOT
/cc @LightnessRacesinOrbit
the cc was serious, she hails from your homeland
 
use her as your next avatar
 
I can't quantify LibraryState because
becausse
because i can't prove that the types match, aha
 
user3010322
@Xeo Maybe it has to do with class member constness?
 
2:40 PM
@AlexM. It seems like she's been to about three pubs in her life.
 
user3010322
The example probably isn't the best because the error for what I described with the free function happens in a const-qualified class.
 
user3010322
	reference operator*() {
		return current; // compiles
	}

	const reference operator*() const {
		return current; // doesn't compile, says I'm dropping qualifiers
	}
 
user3010322
I didn't think the rules would be different?
 
i could do it if one renderer could freely use the data of another
 
user3010322
(reference is value_type&)
 
2:40 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit a matter made minor by the fact that she's hot
you can forgive a lot of things when hotness comes into play
 
@AlexM. meh
 
Hotness Races in Orbit should be a thing
 
Xeo
@ThePhD You suck
 
stupidity is unforgivable
 
Xeo
const reference with reference = value_type& == value_type& const
guess why the stdlib has const_reference
 
2:41 PM
@Xeo he he
 
user3010322
...
 
> Admittedly, that one was very special. You need to share your pictures with us of your local and what makes it great.
 
user3010322
That's just not even fair. :c
 
Aha, lampshaded.
@AlexM. True
@AlexM. Also true.
oh, that reminds me. saw a cutey last night. reminded me of an actress but I can't remember who -.-
blonde and short with small eyes
 
user3010322
@Xeo ;~; Come on, that's not even fair!
 
user3010322
2:45 PM
Why is const T& different from T& const ?!
 
You don't know this yet?
 
user3010322
I knew it was different for when you had pointers!
 
user3010322
I thought const T and T const were the same, so in my head it was const T& and T& const were the same!
 
user3010322
HUFF.
 
user3010322
HUUFFFF.
 
2:46 PM
...
 
user3010322
grumble
 
user3010322
grumble
 
user3010322
Well, now I know. u.u;
 
ITT @ThePhD admits to lack of understanding of fundamental C++ principles
 
@ThePhD Rule of thumb, const applies to the token on its left if any. If not, on its right, so const T and T const are the same but const T& and T& const are not!
 
user3010322
2:48 PM
So you can have non-const references to const data.
 
user3010322
And you can have const references to non-const data.
 
user3010322
Just like pointers
 
user3010322
References really are pointers /cc @LightnessRacesinOrbit
 
@ThePhD No, you can't.
T& is the same as T& const
 
user3010322
... So...
 
user3010322
2:51 PM
Then...
 
user3010322
What's it there for?
 
Generic code.
 
user3010322
:vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
 
data Renderer r => LibraryState r = LibraryState {
    graphicsState :: RendererState r,
    eventsState :: TQueue Event
}
if RendererState is a type family declared inside Renderer type class, I need that constraint, right?
ah fuck it I'll just hoist it
fucking instances
fucking modules
 
Seriously. Why the fuck is everybody CCing me all the time? /cc @LightnessRacesinOrbit
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Of course you can.
@ThePhD You can't do this.
 
FUCK
fuck fuck fuck
I keep making my code too generic over and over
halp :/
 
rip
it up and start again
 
and how's that going to help?
 
@BartekBanachewicz do product-centric development
 
3:04 PM
@AlexM. no, I meant like literally code
 
well yes
do the simplest solution that makes sense
and change as needed later
 
maybe I just universally quantify stuff too much
 
then you cannot make it too generic
 
@AlexM. I'm in the process of such a change
@AlexM. it's about (partially) universally quantified records
I am kinda seeing now that universally quantified data might not be as useful as I initially thought
 
3:09 PM
src\Hate\Common.hs:86:16-83:
    Could not deduce (RendererState r0 ~ RendererState r)
    from the context (MonadState (RendererState r) m, MonadIO m)
@AlexM. this is the kind of problems I meant
 
yeah you're getting into specifics and I'm not that good at getting Haskell :P
Unity's wizard for project upgrade is pretty neat
the changes it makes to code are really minor but nice
e.g. it goes through code and does this on the update to U5
- colors[0,0] = colors[0,1] = guiTexture.color;
+ colors[0,0] = colors[0,1] = GetComponent<GUITexture>().color;
this was from some plugin
(non-Unity made)
 
the point is that type variables bubble up the record chain
 
C# analysis is not that hard
 
which is fucking annoying
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
3:14 PM
I wanted to keep the implementation separate from the interface, but that requires me to push the abstract data up
@CatPlusPlus help :/
I'll write an SSCCE if you want
 
I don't use these things
 
@CatPlusPlus well then maybe you have a different solution
 
Yes but you don't want to hear it :v
 
@CatPlusPlus Well.
Won't kill me.
 
The picture round at last week's quiz was themed "Assholes". This d.gr-assets.com/authors/1168729178p5/432.jpg was picture #10.
 
3:19 PM
lol
 
1
A: Bellman Ford Algorithm Explanation

David EisenstatBellman--Ford has two relevant invariants that hold for all vertices u. There exists a path from the source to u of length dist[u] (unless dist[u] is INT_MAX). After i iterations of the outer loop, for all paths from the source to u with i or fewer edges, the length of that path is no less tha...

How to remember Bellman-Ford easily 101
 
Grr. it's not that I want to train customers, but please boss don't say in a company meeting that I couldn't because I wouldn't be able to explain what my own graphs mean. Does he think I just blindly followed some exact specification to transform data A into visual representation B? I basically wrote the specification lol
Takes the pressure off him not having the first clue if he can pretend to everyone that his subordinates don't either, I suppose.
 
That sounds like something you should bring up with him.
 
Oh he's beyond hope
 
That sounds like something you should bring up with him!
:P
 
3:23 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That sentence sounds familiar
 
:P
I'm pretty much at my tether with this guy. He's getting so brazen lately. Every other sentence is "of course!" and it's particularly noticeable when someone tells him something that he couldn't possibly have known.
The other times it's when he should have known but actually didn't.
But I know there's nothing I can do about it.
fuck it, got paid
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You can change jobs :v
 
This question as written is WAY too broad. Please specify an architecture and preferably a single type of CPU e.g. core i5 etc. As this question is written there is no single good answer as it is very hardware dependent. — Mgetz 11 secs ago
 
you know @Cat
 
I slipped down Maslow's heirarchy of needs a while ago but that's okay
And yes it took me ages to look up that name
@CatPlusPlus Meh. I could. Cost/benefit, though...
 
3:29 PM
if the renderers use global opengl state
maybe they can simply use IORefs
i mean what's the fucking difference
 
Ultimately all managers probably suck balls and I'm comfortable atm. If underpaid.
 
the renderer's state is supposed to be opaque from the framework that uses it
please give me some thoughts on that because I'm really out of ideas
 
People make or break the job
 
{-# LANGUAGE TypeFamilies #-}

class Renderer r where
    type RState r
    render :: RState r -> String -> String
    initial :: RState r

newtype RendererMultiply = RendererMultiply Int
instance Renderer RendererMultiply where
    type RState RendererMultiply = Int
    render n s = concat $ replicate n s
    initial = 2

newtype RendererAppend = RendererAppend String
instance Renderer RendererAppend where
    type RState RendererAppend = String
    render a s = s ++ a
    initial = "xyz"

main = do
they could just have init :: IO () and fuck everything.
they aren't pure in reality anyway
 
What is that type for
Or those strings
 
3:31 PM
and their state is just a cache, they operate with pure api
@CatPlusPlus the type was supposed to be used by the framework to keep the renderers state
I have one central state for the app, that is made of user state and parts of library state
 
It's the caller that dictates that type
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't understand that
 
I.e. your callers need to know internals
 
so even the opaque state type shouldn't leak out?
 
Also do you really need to parametrise this
 
3:33 PM
@CatPlusPlus I want/need different rendering backends
 
Two renderers won't be used side-by-side anyway
 
no, it's always just one of them, but how do I do it in a different way?
I want to be able to pick the one used after the application starts
SILENCE
 
user3010322
If you want to do it at runtime, yuo had to use a runtime mechanism.
 
OH GODS OF HASKELL HOW DID I OFFEND YOU
8
 
user3010322
(Like virtual inheritance)
 
3:36 PM
@ThePhD welp
 
@BartekBanachewicz What for
If someone wants to have two they can make two executables
 
user3010322
And then make a wrapper executable that's just a sys call into the other. :v
 
Just make them have identical API
 
@CatPlusPlus hassle. The game should be able to pick 4.x if possible and compat if not
 
user3010322
(That's how starbound does it).
 
3:37 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Why do you need two renderers for that
 
@CatPlusPlus they need different state
@CatPlusPlus because the things they are going to cache and logic is supposed to be different
 
user3010322
Can't you just wrap that up into a single runtime variable?
 
@ThePhD a single runtime what
 
Just use lowest supported API
 
@CatPlusPlus no.
I want to use 4.x when possible and 3.3 otherwise.
 
3:38 PM
-3
A: Should memcmp or chained ==s be used in operator==?

Cheers and hth. - Alf Premature optimization is the root of all evil. – Knuth

 
user3010322
DesiredGL = { 41, 40, 33 }; // Sorts highest to lowest, then tries in order
 
@ThePhD yes, but I need a way to "instantiate" the desired implementation
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
user3010322
@BartekBanachewicz OpenGL has functions for that.
 
@ThePhD no, in my code.
 
3:39 PM
Time to go OOP
 
@anonymous downvoters: please do explain your downvotes. they don't make sense (to a thinking being). — Cheers and hth. - Alf 42 secs ago
 
@CatPlusPlus that's what I've realized too
 
user3010322
Pass an array of GraphicsDriverType.
 
OOP is a good solution here
 
Hide the implementation behind existentials
 
3:39 PM
@CatPlusPlus tried that. And failed with lack of links between different existentials.
 
"Smoke weed everyday." - Andrei Alexandrescu
 
user3010322
Wait, wait, rewind.
 
user3010322
You mean you want to change the function calls you use based on 41/40/33/31/30/etc.?
 
@BartekBanachewicz What links
 
@CatPlusPlus I had one Renderer r => r at one place and the other Renderer r => r at another and couldn't prove equivalence
 
3:40 PM
Why do you need to prove equivalence
 
because a Renderer r can only operate in a stateful context of Renderer r => RState r (that's how I wrote it)
unless it uses IORefs instead, of course
 
Leaky abstraction
Everything should be hidden behind the existential
 
@CatPlusPlus but then I can't give my state to framework to hold it
that's why I suggested IORef approach
see the problem already?
 
the problem is haskell
 
The downvotes make plenty of sense and you know it. Not only is this quote overused and grossly misunderstood (not to mention taken out of context), but it has literally nothing to do with the question. Which you did not answer. So what was your goal here, again? Seriously, I require the wisdom of "a thinking being". Cheers & hth. — Lightness Races in Orbit 21 secs ago
Cheers & hth., arsehole.
 
3:44 PM
@CatPlusPlus well, haskell might be a great imperarative language, but it's a pretty meh OOP language alright
 
Anyway, try design with existential first and then try to fit the user data whatever thing there
 
aww, converted to comment
 
Xeo
Hm, the localisation system in UE4 is kinda cool
 
user3010322
:l
 
@AlexM. It's anchored inside scaleable parent but doesn't scale the columns
 
3:45 PM
@Xeo it has to be, how else is it going to track you :P
 
I'll have to write layouting calculation ugh
 
are there actual columns?
 
Hmm, Criterion now has regressions.
 
@CatPlusPlus you'd need to expand on that. In essence, I've already tried that.
 
I just set the anchor and scale things and it scales well
when I change the screen format
 
3:45 PM
nvm
 
I mean the panels keep their position
and they keep the ratio when resized
 
it sucks
well fucking shit.
 
Hmm, R² goodness-of-fit too.
I gotta catch up.
 
@CatPlusPlus see this if you haven't already youtube.com/watch?v=JrlFMwLI1fw
it's the only thing I watched before diving in
 
Jesus fucking christ 30 minutes video
No way
 
3:48 PM
@BartekBanachewicz you mean mvn
 
I don't have time for shit like that
 
then go to that panel thing where you set the anchor point (top left corner in the component view for an UI element)
and hold alt or shift can't remember
maybe both do something
and experiment with scaling and stuff
there's a small text in the panel saying something like "Hold ALT to also include scale" or sth
 
Xeo
I remember layouting in Unity to be not-fun
 
haha my comment was deleted. from a deleted answer.
I sure am glad the mods have nothing better to do
 
Grid panel is anchored and does scale properly
 
3:53 PM
@AlexM. tl;dr?
 
It's the children panels that don't
And anchors for children are driven by the grid group, so there's nothing to set there
The sizes just can't be absolute values
I'll have to write my own layouting group ugh
 
user3010322
Iwonder what type I get if I std::decay<> a const char(&)[5]
 

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