« first day (1833 days earlier)      last day (3132 days later) » 

5:00 PM
so you launched the early access rite?
not the complete ver
yea steam says so
I'll add it to the wishlist to buy it next mo
 
@AlexM. Yep
 
yesterday, by Alex M.
I wish the atom plugin wasn't so crap
now it's stuck trying to update
 
5:18 PM
@ElimGarak laffo
this is crazy
 
Fucking expansion forced me into a game of Gwent. I don't want to play this shit but I don't want to forfeit either.
 
@ElimGarak how?
ah the wedding
the guys were easy to beat
 
Yeah, spoke to the midgets and it forced me in. And I've got like 60k. And this asshole put a wager on everything I have. Just won, but gave me a scare.
 
it's especially made to be easy to win :A
 
5:27 PM
minigames
 
Yeah, I really don't like them. It's so bloated and uninteresting.
 
try the gwent tournament or beating olgierd
olgierd was pretty difficult
^ how I won vs olgierd
 
Minigames are silly time-fillers
 
I'd have rather they spent the time working on actual quests of merit instead of Gwent.
 
@CatPlusPlus optional too
well, optional only
I'd only call grinding silly time filler
 
5:30 PM
Well, optional for the player, but you know they carved out a chunk of time to make it a thing.
 
Grinding is dumb too
 
because it's meant to make you spend more time playing the game
gwent is just a minigame a dev spent a few hours in the bath tub thinking of
that was it
it's in an article, how they wanted a minigame, the guy thought of it while taking a bath and everyone tried it the next day at work and were hooked
 
You can think of anything in a few minutes, making it a thing is a whole 'nother affair.
 
do you realize where you're wrong with all that?
 
5:32 PM
Nope. It's a waste of everyone's time. That's a personal opinion, not a statement of fact.
 
posted on October 23, 2015 by Scott Meyers

Another day, another translation of Effective Modern C++--this time in Japanese. Unlike the other translations I've seen, the Japanese edition uses two colors, so it's closer in appearance to the four-color American edition. That's a nice feature. A notable difference between the Japanese translation and the English original, however, is that the Japanese version uses a lot more Kanji :-) I

 
I hope He-Man senpai notices me
 
quick question: say I have a small program consisting of 17 instructions. If I understand correctly there are 355.687.428.096.000 ways to order these 17 instructions. That sounds like quite a lot of possibilities.... How many permutations result in the same program functionality? Is there any literature or statistics about that?
 
@GitaarLAB google it
 
I would go with 'not many'
 
5:39 PM
Anal: I've tried, but apparently I can't think of a suitable string to google.
 
Hey guys, quick question, when making a set of custom objects, you only need to overload the < operator?
 
@shakked yes
 
how come you don't need to do == also
 
@GitaarLAB I tried Googling for 'Who cares?' but it did not give an answer for your question.
 
5:41 PM
@shakked std::set uses equivalence
 
@shakked ~~MAGIC~~
 
user406009
@GitaarLAB why is it important?
 
cool thanks
 
Martin, Lalaland: I'm curious
 
importantserviceannouncement.gif
where is it
 
user406009
5:43 PM
I don't even think you can determine if any two programs are identical anyways.
 
user406009
So the number of identical permutations is probably impossible to know.
 
Jul 6 '14 at 18:58, by Borgleader
@AaronKyleKilleen Public service announcement
 
@GitaarLAB Imposible to prove for arbitrary program
 
How would you implement the < overload on a custom object?
 
5:45 PM
@GitaarLAB You can pretty easily trace through things like resource usage constraints (e.g., read after write) to find permutations that would change the meaning. The rest leave the meaning unchanged.
 
I need to overload it to get my set working but my custom objects dont really have a value per se
 
I set up an extremely simple representation of an x86 processor, added relevant registers, stacks and translated the instructions. I started simulating every permutation and already found over 12000 permutations that give the exact same result.
I quit the simulation due to the time and memory it takes
 
well duh
 
I got quite surprised I found so many permutations of only 17 instructions that lead to the exact same outcome.
 
NOP
NOP
 
user406009
5:47 PM
@shakked you just need to satisfy certain rules.
 
@GitaarLAB Most (including all reasonably recent iterations of x86) order instructions based on resource constraints as pointed out above, but treat order as irrelevant in their absence (not only can rearrange, but can execute multiple instructions simultaneously).
 
@ScottW being helpful, I'll tell you that I do not
 
@ScottW No, but my sister went to school in Iowa (and one of my coworkers grew up in Iowa, but doesn't live there any more).
 
user406009
A<B and B<C implies A<C. A<B and B>A cannot be both true.
 
user406009
If they are both false, then a = b
 
5:50 PM
because 7
 
CLI
HALT
[don't care]
 
@JerryCoffin: I don't seem to understand your answer. Most what? Comilers? assemblers? Humans?
 
user406009
Most cpus.
 
user406009
But that only give you a lower bound.
 
user406009
5:57 PM
As you can have additional valid permutations.
 
user406009
@GitaarLAB look into the halting problem.
 
user406009
I think you can do a similar proof to demonstrate that your problem is impossible to solve.
 
so.. cpu's re-order instructions?
 
@GitaarLAB why not? under circumstances where the outcome is the same.
 
6:00 PM
@GitaarLAB Yes. They have for decades now (since the CDC 6600, released in 1964).
 
@Jaden,@JerryCoffin: I didn't know that...
so a cpu partially does what I got interested in (statistically)?
 
@GitaarLAB Yes.
 
@GitaarLAB They do all kinds of weird stuff. A billion transistors must be good for something:)
 
lol, I honestly alway's believed they were a 'good boy' and stepped through the instructions as they were presented in the order they were presented.
I did realise cpu's had (updatable internal) code that executed the instructions.
 
@GitaarLAB up until we realize that we can make them execute instructions faster under some circumstances where some instructions do not depend on others and we decide to run those concurrently.
 
6:03 PM
@GitaarLAB Of course not
That would be silly
 
user406009
Compilers also do reordering.
 
why would that have been silly to assume for a cpu? (Other than having now learned it is possible for the cpu to reorder instructions itself).
 
@GitaarLAB silly given certain observations or pieces of knowledge.
The more you ask how exactly does it work and how can I make it go faster, the more silly the assumption.
 
Jaden: hehe, I wasn't even thinking (yet) about how I could make it go faster. I was merely curious if there was some literature that pointed out a reasonable percentage of permutations (in instruction-ordering) for the exact same 'program'. And if there were some magic google words I could use to find more information about that :)
Maybe a short background to how I came to my question helps?
 
@GitaarLAB Are you enrolled in an engineering program? I'd suggest that for you.
not for your question so much as for your curiosity and exposure to others in study.
 
6:14 PM
I wanted to fill some gaps in my understanding that were currently filled with 'abstractions'. So I looked at bare assembly and as a hello world just didn't present enough stimulation/motivation, I wrote an executable ascii quine instead.
Obviously, the next logical question was wondering: did I 'invent'/'write' this anew, or did I just re-invent the exact same wheel someone else did.
In order to find out If (according to what google can find) someone else wrote the exact same quine (but in a different instruction order) I'd theoretically have to google every possible permutation
But then I realised that this seems also 'relevant' to software copyright matters...
 
@GitaarLAB Sort of. Gene Amdahl did a fair amount of studying about the limits on the number of instructions you might be able to execute in parallel, which is at least sort of similar to what you're talking about. He didn't deal nearly as much with the number of possible orders as the percentage of instructions that can't be reordered. If you Google for "Amdahl's law", you'll find quite a bit more about this.
 
@Jerry Coffin: thx for the wiki-link, good read and extra google-terms
oh, thanks for that Amdahl link!!!!
 
neato
 
(ps, my simple program that was trying to find working permutations also had checks on ordering logic: some instruction can not come before or after a certain state. So it already tried to do some ordering instead of brute-forcing it).
@JerryCoffin: I'm googling "amdahl's law" but if i understand it so far: if amdahl gives a statistical percentage, that percentage is the base-line, as in: one is to expect at least x (statistical) percentage of permutations that render the exact same program (using the same instructions and values)?
 
user1804599
Really nice.
 
Elyse: that's addressed at me?
 
@AnalPhabet One of the problems I've seen with TDD (and similar) for years is that it just moves the problem: instead of untested code, we have untested tests (or we can test the tests, which just adds another layer to the same problem again). To make sense at all, we have to assume the tests are substantially simpler than the code they're testing, which doesn't seem to fit well with what most TDD advocates seem to want/do.
 
@JerryCoffin TDD sucks anyway
 
@GitaarLAB Something roughly on that order, anyway, yes.
 
6:34 PM
Also, badrespond?
My "neato" was directed at your message
 
@AnalPhabet Oh--I was assuming it referred to the link you'd just posted. Fixed.
 
@JerryCoffin: thx for that confirm, reading into this now, and looking at Elyse's link after.
 
user1804599
@GitaarLAB Why would it?
 
@Elyse: Oh, ok :P
 
@JerryCoffin Nah, that one was fixed by wrapping expected value with Approx call
I was born at night, but it wasn't last night
 
6:38 PM
@AnalPhabet Fair 'nuff.
 
I know a floating point error when I see one
 
@AnalPhabet That's a relief. For a moment there I was worried that I might have hallucinated all your previous posts.
@AnalPhabet I know some of them (but undoubtedly miss quite a few others).
 
Well, simple ones, that is
Rule of thumb: don't apply operator== to floating points
 
@AnalPhabet Yeah, that is pretty easy to spot.
 
@Columbo FFS! Do you want to wake up my (almost) 4 years old daughter? :)
 
6:44 PM
Rule of forefinger: don't use floating points
 
Also, GFC, this is worse than rickroll.
 
@wilx Do you seriously not check all links before clicking on them
 
@AnalPhabet Nope.
 
@wilx lel
 
@JerryCoffin I assume TDD is not the same as, "Here's my interface. It's supposed to do this, but it doesn't yet. Now implement it so that it does what it's supposed to do."
 
6:53 PM
wxReally not enjoying wxWidgets
 
I have sat here for the last ten minutes waiting for my food to cook. I forgot to turn the hob on.
 
Now I wish I knew what a hob is.
 
@CatPlusPlus Early Access? Pfft, that's no launch.
 
Well it's MVP
Local multiplayer is fully functional
We just want to add some other stuff before we call it finished
Like trading cards for @AlexM.
 
don't forget achievements
 
6:59 PM
Yes, that also
I have a file with achievement ideas
They'll work better with online MP though
 
trading cards are great to make badges, and achievements are great to increase the average completion rate on your profile
 
Cards just need ideas and artwork so it shouldn't be too far off
 
I think it takes a long time for your game to propagate to all servers (?)
my download speed is 40kb/s tops and it drops to 0kb/s often
 
Maybe, dunno
Steam does all that stuff
 
user406009
7:09 PM
@CatPlusPlus what's the genre of that game?
 
2D side-view shooter
 
Looks like Worms.
 
It's real-time, Liero, Soldat, etc
 
@Elyse void* does not support dereferencing and pointer arithmetic, so I wonder if void* should even be classified as a pointer...
 
user1804599
Pointer to incomplete type is fine.
 
7:12 PM
Are normal pointers a subtype of void*?
 
user1804599
I see no reason not to classify it as a pointer.
 
user1804599
No, C lacks subtyping.
 
Oh right, I forgot about pointers to incomplete type...
 
user1804599
There are implicit conversions.
 
They cannot be dereferenced either?
 
user1804599
7:13 PM
No, of course not.
 
So there are pointers to complete types and pointers to incomplete types, and void* is just one example of the latter, plus it has special conversion rules?
 
yep
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
user1804599
Not sure which I should use of Perl 5 and Perl 6.
 
Where do incomplete types come from, except for struct declarations?
 
user1804599
7:23 PM
> You can't spell sympathetic without pathetic!
 
user406009
@Elyse neither
 
user406009
Use python.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow void is fundamental, union declarations, enum declarations.
 
user1804599
No, Perl 6 is great.
 
user1804599
It has built-in grammar declaration and parsing functionality.
 
7:24 PM
the amount of profiling tools you can use for .net things this guy shows in his book is scary
 
@fredoverflow Class declarations.
 
user1804599
@Puppy Those don't exist in C.
 
@Elyse Array type with incomplete element type? Is that allowed?
 
> Do you like Fallout? Do you like beer? There's a chance you may like the Venn diagram intersection of these two interests, Fallout Beer, which unlike Nuka Cola is actually a real thing that you can buy and drink. Brewed by Carlsberg, Fallout Beer is a 4 percent ABV pilsner with, we're told, "a refreshing zesty hoppy taste and a floral aroma," available in 330ml bottles. pcgamer.com/fallout-beer-is-a-thing/…
 
user1804599
Array types with unknown size are also incomplete.
 
7:28 PM
'I have tried cURL but no luck and even fsockopen unless like sex I might be doing it wrong.': stackoverflow.com/questions/33309598/…
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Maybe not in C. Not sure.
 
user1804599
Definitely in C++.
 
user1804599
Funfact: D allows void arrays. :D
 
WTF is a void array?
 
user1804599
Very similar to ubyte[], except the GC will look for pointers inside a void[] but not inside a ubyte[].
 
7:34 PM
@CatPlusPlus Well done! Maybe some pwner can pin that?
^ @fred?
 
Xeo
If @Cat was an owner, he coulda done so himself!
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Set phasers to pug [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because it's ESP. It's quite super but natural.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion You are so incredibly unimaginative, I am terribly sorry for you.
Good evening.
 
Xeo
sup. Here for another C++ problem? :P
 
sbi
Actually, I have been around here a few times this month just for recreation.
 
7:48 PM
@sbi but not this time? :D
 
Woop woop sbi is here!
 
rekt
 
sbi
@melak47 Weren't you the one who sent business emails until a few minutes ago? While I didn't work at all today.
 
@CatPlusPlus no gamepad support yet? I saw the buttons show up
 
@sbi The original C++ draft.
 
sbi
7:50 PM
Oh, a dog. Well, at least it seems mature.
 
@sbi Where your childhood friends hang out?
 
sbi
@Nican Wrong. Two more tries.
@EtiennedeMartel You know, I just had a meetup with my class mates from school. The last time I saw most of them we were teens, now a third of them are grandparents. That was scary. Also, very few of them would be interested in natural history.
@ScottW Busy. How else?
@TonyTheLion I am all for it! Go, evil Tony overlord, kick their sorry asses!
 
@AlexM. Supports Xbox360 and Xbox1 controllers
 
strange, I can press "Start" on the splash screen on my controller
but as soon as I get past the splash, I can't use the controller anymore
 
7:54 PM
@sbi yet you still check your work mail :)
 
@AlexM. What kind of controller and what OS?
 
sbi
@melak47 I don't check. It arrives on my phone. And I meant to give you that dce hint yesterday, but forgot about it while doing reviews all day...
 
@Xeo Not worth it
 
@TonyTheLion I've been flagging them every time they come up
 
7:56 PM
no special drivers installed, I only tested it in Final Fantasy XIII and Steam Big Picture since I got it and it works ok
Windows 8.1
 
It probably maps to different axes/buttons
 
sbi
@ScottW Took you. Being busy?
 
And/or it's simply not included in my mapping
I'm gonna write some tool to get info I need for that, but not today
 
yea just mentioned it, any plans to add mouse aiming?
 
sbi
Look, more and more of this room's oldtimers arrive at the conclusion that being an owner just isn't worth it. Soon this will have escalated to the point where I can again set a trend by going back to becoming an owner. :)
 
7:57 PM
Probably not, wouldn't be very competitive vs controllers
We'll see
 
sbi
@Puppy What do you mean, "flagging"?
 
@sbi I think haphi also mentioned it, but for some reason the option was called something else so we gave up and I forgot about it again :)
 
woot you have a gravity gun :D cool
 
@sbi I'm not the Binmeister anymore
 
sbi
@Puppy What do you mean, "flagging"?
 
7:59 PM
I mean, flagging
 
sbi
@Puppy Like flagging for a mod?
 
yea I figured it was a k/m vs controller thing, keyboard aiming in worms worked well because it was turn based, it's a bit difficult for me to aim quickly when jumping around with the keyboard
 
just regular flagging.
 
sbi
Like this?
 

« first day (1833 days earlier)      last day (3132 days later) »