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3:05 AM
I'm finally finished adding support for Orbis OS and Cell OS for my game engine (=
Orbis OS = PS4
Cell OS = PS3
 
How did you test it?
 
i have a ps3 and ps4 development kit
 
I am
a fucking
retard
 
why ?
 
I was trying to profile the difference between sorting many equal elements and no equal elements
my sort has special code for that, and trying to measure how effective it is
 
3:10 AM
you did it in debug?
 
but I still had chunk_size, which determines how large every array is that gets sorted, set to 10, which always gets handled by insertion sort lol
 
I'd been writing a scripting language... had a lot of basics in it for a while...
...but when first testing the while loop for the script, just to make sure, I had a fixed number of max iterations set to 20
 
holy fuck
 
i made a scpriting language called cpp script, a dumbed down version of c++
 
I forgot and left that in... you reminded me of that one... took me about an hour to debug
 
3:13 AM
if you try sorting shuffled array of 10 million elements, but with only 64 different kinds of elements my algorithm completes in 58% of the time that it takes std::sort
 
I'm currently working on a compiler (= for my game engine, my editor for my game engine includes its own IDE
 
@nightcracker you need realworld tests
gl finding them
 
@Borgleader this seems like a pretty real world test for a particle system
but I do indeed need real world tests, but I don't know good data sets
 
@nightcracker std::sort is not usually used for real world games that heavily rely on mathematics
 
@daniel what sorting algorithm do they use?
or are you implying they don't sort stuff at all?
 
3:15 AM
developers usually make there own in house algorithms
 
@daniel what algorithm do they use?
 
Most big games companies reimplement the standard library
 
i already said they make there own in house algorithms, just like the quake engine had a algorithm for sqrt.
 
@daniel but you don't say which algorithms
there's only a few approaches to sorting
insertion, selection, merging, partitioning, etc
 
bubblesort, bogosort...
 
3:18 AM
@nightcracker in house means privately owned code, meaning he probably doesnt/cant know
 
@Borgleader so he's basically talking out of his ass?
 
@nightcracker no its a well known fact that game companies re implement the standard library
the eastl is on github afaik
 
implementing algorithms != creating algorithms
 
are you being annoying on purpose?
 
i never said i knew what algorithms they used is said most developers make they're own algorithms that are faster than std algorithms.
@nightcracker dont go throwing stones.
 
3:21 AM
@Borgleader no? there's a massive difference between implementing some sorting algorithm and making your own algorithm for a particular problem, which daniel is claiming
 
he said make
that didnt imply creating
that implied writing code
you read meaning where there wasnt
 
the word for that is implement
implementing an algorithm = writing code that works like a particular algorithm
making an algorithm = creating an actual algorithm
 
/no-pedantic
 
You guys are better at splitting hairs than writing code.
 
@nightcracker a sorting algorithm is usually a unique algorithm for its purpose.
 
3:24 AM
@Mysticial You guys? he's the one being pedantic =/
 
@daniel that's just plain not true, there's very few cases where you can significantly outperform a general sort
 
unless you know what kind of usage pattern you have and make a non-general sort. ie one targeted at say, small-ish numbers of items
 
@Borgleader my general sort handles small number of items
 
one sorting algorithm may sort a specific thing fast but be slow sorting another, if you make your own for your task it can be optimized for that task, making it faster than std::sort, dont be rude to someone for stating facts.
 
@nightcracker good for you
 
3:28 AM
@daniel you're not stating facts, because I have no way to check what you're saying
@daniel there's only two cases I know of from the top of my head, a counting sort and a radix sort, where you can significantly outperform a general comparison sort
but other than that I'd like you to quantify what "tasks" you can optimize sorting for
 
all i said was most developers make there own algorithms for games and programs instead of using the std, in some cases it may be optimal for you to use the std::sort instead of using a in house algorithm, though i prefer to make my own instead of the ladder of the two choices.
 
@daniel s/ladder/lat(t)er/
 
So exactly what are we arguing about?
 
@Mysticial daniel said make, nightcraker read too much into it, pointless discussion ensued
 
3:32 AM
@Borgleader most of those are crooked and shouldn't be there because they're always outperformed by another
@Borgleader that's not true
 
@Borgleader fair enough :)
 
@nightcracker started complaining because i said most developers use in house algorithms )=, i dont know what his problem is.
 
@Borgleader daniel said make algorithms, because that's what he meant - making an algorithm that outperforms a general sort
 
Now would be the best time for @jalf to join in.
 
I was just making sure he was saying was as incorrect as I thought it was
 
3:33 AM
@nightcracker clearly he didnt mean it since you guys are arguing about what he meant
 
@Borgleader we are no longer arguing about what he meant?
 
ok now youre just being annoying
bye
 
So we went from arguing over algorithms to arguing over what each other meant to arguing over what each other thought each other meant?
 
6 mins ago, by daniel
one sorting algorithm may sort a specific thing fast but be slow sorting another, if you make your own for your task it can be optimized for that task, making it faster than std::sort, dont be rude to someone for stating facts.
this is what I'm arguing about
and that it's bull
(except for radix and counting sort)
 
@nightcracker I'm not incorrect i said most Developers make / use in house algorithms instead of using the std. which is a common fact.
 
3:35 AM
@daniel just to be very sure
 
I'm not in the gaming industry, but why couldn't it apply to, say, non-fully ordered sorts? Or sorts that exploit special hardware?
 
@daniel when you say "in house algorithms", do you mean original ways of doing things (algorithms), or hand-written code implementing known ways of doing things (implementations)
 
@Mysticial i dont even know man, daniel said something about not using the standard library and making their own code (which as i read it meant, re-implementing the standard library for performance reasons) and nightcracker read it as making a new sorting algorithm and then uh... yeah... pointless discussion
 
@Borgleader he cited the sqrt trick as an example, which is a prime example of a novel algorithm
@Borgleader how did you read it as re-implementing the standard library given that example?
 
@Borgleader IOW, they are totally arguing over what they thought each other believes the other possibly could think the other would mean.
 
3:38 AM
@nightcracker I'm done talking to you cause you cause pointless argument, i stated my opinion, also if you don't know what in house means then this discussion is pointless
 
this is not about in-house
it's about algorithm vs implementation
 
@Mysticial this is starting to sound like the plot to inception
 
@HWalters what do you mean with a non-fully ordered sorts? and last time I checked gaming studios targetted consumer hardware
 
Now I'm not so sure I think I believe I know what they really mean when they think they know what the other means when they really think they mean the other to mean the opposite.
 
am I really that pedantic when I ask for clarification about algorithm vs implementation? they're two radically different things, and the context is conflicting (a novel algorithm for sorting is rare, but daniel cited a novel algorithm for sqrt)
 
3:41 AM
nightcrawler: What I mean is that it's important to put some of n items before others of n items; hence, it's a sort. But not everything has a well defined order. Thinking roughly, something akin to z ordering triangles for rendering (properly separated enough such that they have a well enough defined ordering)
 
@HWalters nightcracker*
@HWalters std::partition
 
@nightcracker Sorry
 
all i said was that most programmer hence why i said developers, make / use in house algorithms meaning a programmer made there own code that would be faster for there purpose instead of relying on a general algorithm provided the c++ standard library, you read to far into it and started a pointless argument for no reason other than your obvious obsession to be right.
 
i thought you were done D:
 
> your obvious obsession to be right.
that's not fair
I don't care whether I'm right or wrong, I want to prevent confusion in communication
here's the problem, you seem to be using the world algorithm in places where it seems very very weird and implementation seems what you mean
now I could blindly replace whenever you say algorithm with implementation
but that might change what you're trying to say, and just assuming you meant something else would just be disrespectful
 
3:46 AM
an algorithm is a step-by-step procedure for calculations, a sorting functions is technically a algorithm for sorting hence the reason i said algorithm.
 
But "making an algorithm" means "making a step-by-step procedure". This means you're creating a new procedure, a new way of doing things.
if you want to take some procedure it, and code it, it's called implementing the algorithm
 
Fuck it. Let's define algorithm to be: "A thingamajiggy that is better than your thingamajiggy".
 
@nightcracker Not sure what you mean by std::partition in this context.
 
@HWalters it's the proper name for the algorithm you loosely described as "non-fully ordered sort" or "some elements before others"
 
@nightcracker exactly most developers make there own procedures that can be tremendously faster then c++ standard library functions.
 
3:49 AM
No, that just makes a partition
 
@daniel could you give a concrete example?
even better would be an example of a sorting procedure tremendously faster than std::sort
 
0
Q: SEVERE: A child container failed during start tomcat8

user3927150i wrote a simple sevlet program. when i am trying to deploy the same in tomcat i am getting the below error i have tried by removing annotations. SEVERE: A child container failed during start java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: org.apache.catalina.LifecycleException: Failed to start compo...

^^ Is SEVERE the new URGENT?
 
PLS HELP NAO
 
@nightcracker A before B, B before C, C before D, D before E; F before D, G before H, H before I, but F doesn't necessarily need to be before or after A or B or C.
 
@Mysticial doesn't matter, it got a downvote anyway
 
3:52 AM
@Mysticial it seems to be the error message
 
shit load of errors, code dump, no apparent debugging attempt -> -1
 
Think some things are less than other things; others aren't, but the ones that aren't don't follow strict well ordering rules such that they define equivalent sets; rather, they define weaker rules such that you really don't care; aka, save time by specifically avoiding comparisons of those with... an algorithm.
 
@HWalters I don't think you can speed up sorting with this, as you'll need a N^2 matrix containing less, greater, dontcare to fully describe the ordering between two arbitrary elements x and y
scrap that, partition sorts can use this
 
i never said you could make std::sort faster all i said was that in some cases you may want to make your own in house algorithms instead of using std algorithms, for std::sort its a relatively fast algorithm, i was jsut stating my opinion, like my dad once told me you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink, same goes for you i can state my advise but cant make you understand what it means.
 
(and I think they're the only ones, but don't quote me on that)
30 mins ago, by daniel
one sorting algorithm may sort a specific thing fast but be slow sorting another, if you make your own for your task it can be optimized for that task, making it faster than std::sort, dont be rude to someone for stating facts.
you said exactly that
hell, you even implied it's a fact
 
3:59 AM
@nightcracker It depends on particulars though, doesn't it? You're still thinking of comparing each item to "figure out" if they fold in, but if you do that, that's just falling back to a general sort--I agree
 
@HWalters give me one second
 
@nightcracker But this doesn't mean your data structures can't already have this partially figured out; in which case, a tailored algorithm could do better
 
i did say that and if you read it, it says one sorting algorithm can be fast for a purpose but in other cases (a different purpose it may be slow), so my point is std::sort may be fast for you, but for someone who is sorting something completely different than you, it may be slow for them, it depends on whats being sorted and how it needs to be sorted
 
@nightcracker It's no big deal... I'm just tossing things out generally--reasons why I don't strictly rule out the possibility of special case sorting, particular in gaming. I'm not in the industry anyway, so it's just academic
 
@HWalters I think that's a bit cheaty, as you generally only consider something part of the input of an algorithm if you'd actually use it
 
4:02 AM
So the static code analysis tool ('PVS Studio') is recommending I replace all void func(const foo fooobject) with void func(const foo& fooobject). My thought is that this is a bad optimization because the compiler should know when to do this substitution and it can result poorly performing code if an alias check is required. Should all const become const refs?
 
if there's something you'd never use because you already know it it starts going more towards data structures than algorithms
 
@nightcracker Except that something like z ordering might actually qualify
Sure, but it's a sorting algorithm :)
 
@HWalters here's the crux
I think you can achieve optimal sorting by a general partition-based sort like z ordering using purely a comparison function
 
and im not against using std functions, i use them a lot to, in cases i don't need the high performance, but in the cases i do need high performance i use my own in house functions instead of the std functions, because they may be too slow for the purpose i need them for.
 
namely, if you don't care where the element goes you can return < 50% of the time and > 50% of the time to keep partitions balanced
@daniel I understand that, and I'm not disputing that
@daniel in general that's true
@daniel you just extended that general knowledge onto sorting, where I'm arguing it doesn't hold nearly as well
 
4:05 AM
@nightcracker But that's not quite the situation. F doesn't really have to go before A, B, or C; or after A, B, or C, but it does have to come before D, which C has to be before
Think in terms of graphs with directed edges being sort orders, but don't necessarily wire them all linearly
 
@HWalters hmm
 
We might still have a linear sort--the order of rendering; but ordering between A and B matters only if there's a path from A to B or B to A; if not, we don't care.
 
here's the thing
actually I don't think partition sorts work with this
nvm
@HWalters so a strict weak ordering that does not define a total preorder?
if we're talking academic
 
hi guys any regex pros here ?
 
I'd have to think through it a bit... since we're also touching on applicability, actually relating to z ordering should be something to commit to here
 
4:11 AM
@HWalters found it
@HWalters actually implemented this before
@HWalters the only problem is that practical algorithms I know of need a N^2 dependency matrix as I said before
In computer science, a topological sort (sometimes abbreviated topsort or toposort) or topological ordering of a directed graph is a linear ordering of its vertices such that for every directed edge uv from vertex u to vertex v, u comes before v in the ordering. For instance, the vertices of the graph may represent tasks to be performed, and the edges may represent constraints that one task must be performed before another; in this application, a topological ordering is just a valid sequence for the tasks. A topological ordering is possible if and only if the graph has no directed cycles, that...
(well not necessarily N^2 matrix, but you need to have all vertices explicit)
 
@nightcracker Yes... that seems exactly what I had in mind
 
performance is O(|V| + |E|), so it's only better than traditional sorts if you have less than O(n log n) relations (vertices) between elements
@HWalters so in your example where only F is an exception general sorts will do better, as a < b < c is more "useful" information and you can just put F wherever
(this is not really surprising as strict weak ordering gives you more information per comparison, like when I know a<b and b<c I know where everything goes with 2 comparisons)
 
4:31 AM
This is probably a dumb question, but if I have a global instance of a thread pool, will it and all the threads created by it carry on to the new process after a fork?
 
'template <typename T> inline T qToBigEndian(T source)
{ return qbswap<T>(source); }
template <typename T> inline T qFromBigEndian(T source)
{ return qbswap<T>(source); }' <- From Qt
 
user3010322
4:51 AM
@JerryCoffin Well, as I understand it the Windows Font Mapper doesn't seem to take outside fonts directories and names into consideration, and there's no hook for "consider these font files too" when using EnumFontFamiliesEx.
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin The sticking point with EnumFontFamiliesEx is that when you're using a solution like FreeType, you hit a wall because FreeType either expects the whole font in memory (GetFontData seems to not return a memory-form of the entire TrueType or OpenType font?) or the font file name in order to open it up and use the inner values: plus, I have to plug this system into harfbuzz as well, which also has limited interface for opening the files.
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin Plus, the FontMapper doesn't necessarily auto-magically handle fallback fonts (Uniscribe does that, but it's Windows-only).
 
6:34 AM
0
A: Why is processing a sorted array faster than an unsorted array?

ekiimThe answer is really simple, performance... You will use some certain cost of memory and time, to process (sorting) data, with any algorithm, and every algorithm costs different amount of time and/or memory... Now the question is "Why in the world would i sort my data?", well, the answer to that...

^^ lolwut? Does that even answer the question?
 
6:47 AM
8AM ON SATURDAY IS A PERFECT TIME TO BE DRILLING HOLES IN WALLS
FUCKING MORON HAS BEEN ON IT FOR A FUCKING HOUR ALREADY
EAT SHIT AND DIE JESUS CHRIST
OH GOODIE THEY SWITCHED TO A HAMMER
 
7:08 AM
I was about to start drilling holes in walls and sawing up wood. 8am on Saturday. Then I realised it's 8am on Saturday.
I've had two hours sleep and I'm definitely still wasted
 
@Mysticial No. VtD.
 
The EC2 is running slowly, I feel a disturbance in the force
 
Xeo
So, did Puppy reveal wtf his job is about yet?
Or is he too embarrassed to admit it's a Java job?
Also, I need ideas on what to cook.
Now that I got a proper kitchen, I wanna use it
 
@JerryCoffin Thanks. It looks like a new user just spamming answers everywhere. And that was probably one of the first questions he found.
@Xeo I'm doing Java and Android right now...
I thought Java would be easier to debug because it has a proper exception system with easy to access stack traces. Damn, was I so wrong about that.
In Android, they have this thing call Proguard that obfuscates the binary for the purpose of making it harder to reverse engineer. It also obfuscates the stack traces.
And their deobfuscation tools are broken.
 
@Mysticial If deobfuscation tools exist, doesn't that mean that the obfuscator is broken?
 
7:23 AM
The obfuscator leaves behind a mapping file which you hold onto yourself.
You need that file to deobfuscate.
 
Is it true that all mobile developers have small hands?
 
I'm actually working on smart TVs. So my hands are really big.
Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to hold that 60 in. TV in the palm of my hands.
 
Professionally, I take pictures of things, and try to solve equations that are wrong from the get-go
idk why i'm on the C++ chat
 
Xeo
"I do Android" sounds wrong
Like, "I do an internet"
 
Hello guys
0
Q: Run C++ Code after Assert Fails

aerosI am doing a unit test in C++ which involves creating a dummy file. Is there any way to remove the file, regardless whether the assert fails or succeeds? My issue is just the code will never reach my clean up code. Is there any way to do the same thing in which JUnit implements @after? Thanks a...

 
@MarcoA. Did you just drive-by-link
 
?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't even
 
@Xeo "I do science".
 
@sehe I just didn't happen to know users can offer potatoes for our services
 
7:37 AM
They can. We prefer "bintjes"
 
well, ich mag Kartoffeln
more or less
 
Close, but no banana :)
user image
5
boy you aren't here often these days
I don't remember. I think
Also, need to be rushing. Sry
 
lol
 
heh
 
7:46 AM
ahahah that's a good one
 
7:59 AM
Yaay
Of course today is too late to turn in my project
Thank god this tutor is a reasonable one and said he'd allow me to do that in the upcoming semester
I just need to get the paperwork done so they won't close my records with a negative score
 
Ugh I should've left the other partition mounted at E:
Now I'll have to relearn to type paths
 
Which has another nice implication of having more time to turn in another emergency project
 
8:16 AM
@ScottW hey scott
 
Ugh stupid apps not respecting system language and going by fucking locale settings. Just because I want dates and shit to be formatted in a certain way doesn't mean I want apps to be in this language you moronic dipshits
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit reminds me of drawings our game artist used to make
I was so psyched when he illustrated one of my ideas like that
 
System Language my ass
 
8:31 AM
LINGUAS="en"
 
user1804599
It's always hilarious when apps have their own language setting. Developers put effort in a feature that is nothing but annoying and useless. :D
 
I wonder if MBP + iPad combo wouldn't work better than an ultrabook in practice
 
user1804599
Remove the iPad.
 
@rightfold no touchscreen = bust
 
user1804599
Why aren't there more women app devs? Google Play now requires developers to disclose their addresses to all users: https://mikandi.com/blog/news/new-google-policy-requires-developers-to-list-physical-addresses/
 
user1804599
8:36 AM
:psyduck:
 
user1804599
Also, more women app devs would be a disaster.
 
user1804599
It would mean there would be more app devs.
 
user1804599
Whereas there should be fewer app devs.
 
@rightfold the fuck is that policy
 
user1804599
8:38 AM
Almost as retarded as the moron who thinks that this is the reason women aren't doing app development.
 
user3010322
List the address of a previously demolished building.
 
user3010322
Problem = solved.
 
@rightfold people are dumb eh
 
user1804599
@ThePhD inb4 they send you snailmail with a confirmation code.
 
also I still have no idea why I got banned for my message yesterday
So
WRT Bartek gets 100k on SO plan
 
8:52 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah that was weird
Externals not at all understanding the context, I guess.
 
Jesus Core Temp installer
So much annoying ad shit
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit or feeling personally offended by it
 
Didn't backup backup settings either :derp:
 
9:11 AM
uh metro apps installations take so long
shitty ms servers or whatnot
 
lol metro
And yeah disabling Caps Lock kills the key code instead of just, you know, not toggling Caps Lock state
Smart
 
9:27 AM
@CatPlusPlus show me a non-metro pdf annotation tool capable of utilizing pressure-sensitive pen for annotations
inb4 photoshop
 
lol pen
 
Xeo
Time for some rice
 
oh rust
@Rapptz that looks really nice
 
@Rapptz You're gonna get downvoted by the rust fanboys
Also post n° 2000000 approaching
 
9:39 AM
probably
 
> The r-value returned from std::string::substr could be moved from saving a copy so it isn't terrible at all.
what?
I don't get that line at all.
@Rapptz Also your remark about profiling was dumb in this case. He showcased an idea, which doesn't necessarily have to deal with this problem only.
 
I must be tired
It hurts to blink
 
I figure that's how most reddit posts are made
 
Ell
work time
bye all
 
I think I should go home and play some LoL
been studying for two hours
 

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