« first day (1413 days earlier)      last day (3538 days later) » 

8:00 PM
@ThePhD I was talking about the slydexism
> StacklPanel
> problamatic
I still love you @thecoshman pls no hate
 
user3010322
Yes, I was referring to the same thing.
 
Xeo
78
Q: How to respond to manager's demand to remove CV from Job site?

timMy daughter is desperately unhappy with her employer and is looking for another job. Her CV is posted on several sites (like Monster) and today her line manager has told her that she has until 4pm to take it off of these sites or "there will be consequences". We don't know exactly what that means...

Yeah, fuck working.
 
user3010322
These are comments and documentation on publically available samples and documentation.
 
Where can I take a C++ test on which I can score shittynoob/10
 
Xeo
 
8:02 PM
thx gui
why does it start at question 126 though
oh it's random, nevermind
 
user3010322
Time for some globals.
 
Ell
man I did two parts cointreau and it really fucked up my drink
 
@Xeo wut
I can barely read that, lol
That's awesome.
 
Xeo
Check the second version
 
damn
 
user3010322
8:09 PM
Xeo-chan's the greatest. ♥
 
I'll save that if I need it later.
 
hmm
I wonder what precedence precisely I should assign to import results.
so far I only look up in imports if I get no other results.
 
@ThePhD I have no idea what that thing does
 
Xeo
@Puppy eh, I'd put it in the same scope as the stuff in the file
@dolan Allows you to have a vector of "brick" types - unmovable, uncopyable types
And it even enforces that, because if they are movable or copyable, it tells you to go and use std::vector :D
 
8:24 PM
Ooooh...
I wish I knew C++
TEACH ME YOUR WAYS, MASTER
 
Xeo
Hm... I think I kinda understand now how dependent typing (refinement types at least) work
@dolan That's $20/hr
 
@Xeo You could try out GADTs if you haven’t already.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I was just reading this and the explanation for the div function made it click
 
@Xeo I will forever be a scrub
 
@Xeo Way too cheap.
 
Xeo
8:29 PM
Probably, yeah
 
I’m not sure refinement types are comparable to dependent types, but I’m double checking to be sure.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Hm, I'd like to think they are!
 
2
A: Dependent types vs refinement types

Alexey RomanovDependent types are types which depend on values in any way. A classic example is "the type of vectors of length n", where n is a value. Refinement types, as you say in the question, consist of all values of a given type which satisfy a given predicate. E.g. the type of positive numbers. These co...

 
Xeo
well damn :<
 
I wouldn’t be as sure as that answer. Importantly though, I don’t think programming with dependent types feels the same as programming with refinement types.
 
Xeo
8:32 PM
Memo: I still know nothing about dependent typing.
 
@Xeo Dependent typing is like quantum physics. If you think you understand it, you really don't. Once you start to feel completely lost and bewildered, you may be starting to catch on. Or else you're just a lot smarter or younger than me, and able to catch new ideas a little more easily.
 
sure you do, you put typename in front of them :p
 
Xeo
I still can't wrap my head around how dependent typing is supposed to work in statically typed languages ._.
 
@LucDanton Well, it seems to me like his example dependent type could also be expressed as a refinement type.
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin I am most certainly a lot younger than you :P
 
8:34 PM
@Xeo Seems to me like it clearly can't.
 
Xeo
But it can
Which is the baffling part
 
@Xeo Dirt is younger than me...
 
That is, even if we assume that there are formal constructions to express any program with dependent types as a program with refinement types (and/or vice versa), I don’t think you could transfer your skills for writing programs of the one kind to the other. Starting from scratch might very well be easier.
 
@Xeo The compiler cannot infer all values in the program at run-time, else it would be able to determine if it halts. Therefore, logically, the compiler cannot employ a type system dependent on run-time values, since it doesn't know them.
I don't see how, unless the compiler employs time travel, it could possibly statically type variables based on run-time values.
 
@Puppy Maybe. Keep in mind the ‘vector’ types mentioned here really are an indexed type family. If we encode that as { v: Vector a | size v == N }, I’m not sure the entire flavour is preserved. What does a concat :: { v: Vector a | size v == N } -> { w: Vector a | size w == M } -> { z: Vector a | size z == M + N } look like?
@Xeo Start with existentials and GADTs imo.
 
8:39 PM
@LucDanton I can't figure out what it's supposed to look like even with dependent static types, so give me a break here :P
 
So, can the answerer’s example of a dependent type be expressed as a refinement type or not? :|
 
well, I don't see how you don't have the exact same problem with a dependent type, to put it another way.
you have the exact same problem- the static type depends on the runtime size of the vector.
 
Forget about static vs runtime.
 
right.
then I don't see the problem with your sample code.
the refinement on the result is easily computed based on the refinement of the inputs
 
I’m looking around for what a program with refinement types looks like. Too many examples show the refinement types themselves, but not how you use them in a function and so on.
 
8:43 PM
well, intuitively, I'd say that since the value changes the type, you'd have to employ immutability.
 
@CatPlusPlus ergh, is this new wiki? do I have to do anything? should I?
 
so the concat would probably have to be like, concat(x, y) { if (y.empty()) return x; return concat(x.push_back(y.front()), y.pop_front()); }.
 
Oh the actual functionality it provides isn’t out of reach, yeah. It’s type-checking it that’s interesting.
 
not sure if it is.
if the typing is at runtime, then you don't need to really do a lot of type-checking work, just calculate the new types as required at runtime.
 
@Puppy ...but not everything has to be immutable. Some changes could result in a modified value with the same type, while other changes could produce a value of some type different from either input (e.g., if the type is arrays with length less than 10, and you concatenate two arrays of 7 items each).
 
8:48 PM
Dependent typing is part of the usual discipline of type theory, yes. The type-checker need only look at the program (i.e. source), not run it.
 
then I'll probably have to bow out, since I don't see how that could possibly work in any situation.
 
@Xeo Looking at a paper, some things look very similar to dependent typing if that makes you feel better. Then again, there are notions (e.g. ‘measures’) that are mentioned that I don’t know have a counterpart in dependent types—which is not to say they don’t. So, my advice again is to treat them separately.
(The paper is not introduction material, don’t bother.)
 
Xeo
I once equated dependent typing to templates in C++ with non-type parameters, but then everybody told me that's wrong :<
 
@Puppy The answerer mentioned vectors of a specific size because it’s kinda the Hello World! of dependent typing, and in particular it elaborates on FP lists which are the Hello World! of algebraic types. I wouldn’t have mentioned the example myself in this room since it assumes a certain background.
This is why I mentioned GADTs and existentials. I think they are a better stepping stone for the audience here.
 
I guess I just don't see what you'd do if you had something like, f() { if (rand() % 2) return array({1, 2, 3)}; return array({1}); }.
 
8:56 PM
@Xeo -XDataKinds can also serve as a stepping stone here… :D
 
hello noobs
 
@Puppy In either branch, you do return a vector of a given length. The goal of the type-checking is not necessarily to keep track of that length (although it can be done sometimes), but to verify that you do something correct (which is not to say that programs that don’t typecheck do something incorrect, i.e. there are false negatives).
 
@Puppy If memory serves, one way of dealing with that is an ADT--you form an ADT that's basically the union of "array of length 1" and "array of length 3" (or the types defined in the program to which those correspond) and the return type for the function is that ADT. In the most general possible case (e.g., building an array of size generated by rand()) that may basically just turn into "array", but in many other cases it can deduce a more specific type.
Just for example, you might have a type for "array of odd length", and the type checker would be able to statically verify that the code above produced a result that fit that data type.
 
@JerryCoffin That's pretty much just deferring it until runtime.
 
@Xeo If/when you have the time and will we can find a room and talk dependent types all night long baby.
 
9:00 PM
@LucDanton I guess that for me, if you don't know the length and you don't need to know to know that the program is correct, then I don't really see how it forms part of the type at all.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Cool, tonight's unfortunately not good :(
 
@LucDanton Is that your way of flirting? I'm afraid it's not very sexy.
 
@Rapptz s/dependent types/Haskell/?
Did that make you quiver? :v If not, I’m out of moves.
 
lol
Maybe on a gal like Bartek.
 
@Rapptz Bar Trek: trekking the hipster bars.
 
9:03 PM
Singleton types are a hot (well, tepid) topic in Haskell these days; they mix existentials, GADTs and DataKinds so really all the things I’ve been recommending so far. Maybe we should try that. Plus, who doesn’t love singletons?
Similarly, reflection. Which is yet another thing with a completely misleading name!
 
been wondering what kind of reflection facilities I want to offer in Wide.
 
Compile time only.
 
@LucDanton Is it at least related to reification?
 
@JerryCoffin Yes.
 
I miss the good ol' translate bot.
 
9:08 PM
@LucDanton In that case the name is (at most) only partially misleading. :-)
 
@dolan love you too qtipie... but wtf is he on about?
WPF? I've never touched that in my life.
 
@JerryCoffin Can you help me connect the dots? IIRC you reify your stuff, and the act of ‘getting it back’ is reflecting it. But… why? There’s no mirror!
 
@Rapptz I actually think you could implement run-time reflection on top of compile-time reflection as a library.
 
@ThePhD dude? what was that on about?
 
I find C++ Quiz to be addictive
 
9:13 PM
@LucDanton Sorry--I was being facetious. I meant both "reflection" and "reification" start with "re", so only "flection" could be misleading. I can sort of see the idea they might have had in calling it reflection though. You've basically turned an object into bits, and reflection reverses that, turning bits back into a real object (for some definition of "object" that has nothing to do with "object oriented" or anything like that).
 
Twitter is great
 
@BartekBanachewicz well done
 
I just got another free drink
If you're following me you know what's up
Otgerwuide I am drunk on a tech party
Its great
 
I don't think I knew you were twatting too
 
H2, y u no returning clause.
getGeneratedKeys is such a fugly hack.
 
9:22 PM
@thecoshman yeah were on #3hack
 
@BartekBanachewicz what's you twatter name?
 
bananu7
SO SURPROSINF RIGHT
SURPRISING
 
turns out i'm already following you. you must be boring then.
 
@Xeo: So I'm thinking function locals > members/captures > modules + imports.
 
Xeo
9:29 PM
sounds good
 
@Rapptz L14 is wrong
 
?
 
(don't tell him that I haven't even looked at it)
 
good line number guess
it actually exists
 
what is it?
I'm sure I can pick on it somehow
 
9:35 PM
gl
std::cout << x.a << '\n' << x.b << '\n' << x.c << '\n';
What the hell is a union of two rectangles? :s
 
A polygon.
@Rapptz That's silly.
I'd call that the bounding box of the union of the two rectangles.
 
convex hull :)
in a box universe :s
 
Well it seems to actually be the definition (?)
I can't find anything more clear on the subject.
I'm not sure if this should be a member function or free function. Guess I'll make it a free function.
Or well.. iunno.
 
When in doubt, make it a free function.
I wish there were only free functions and functools.singledispatch.
 
Oh god that girl
 
Xeo
9:43 PM
@Rapptz Makes sense, I think
 
Sometimes I dread having a gf
But then again Natalia is the best gf ever so
 
well, union is a reserved keyword
not sure how I'd name this
 
@BartekBanachewicz Your children will suffer from the Dreaded Girlfriend of Death because of the use of multiple inheritance.
 
Xeo
union_with?
 
Fuck unions acquire short haired beauties
@Polymo aahahah multiple inheritance
Lol
 
9:44 PM
@Rapptz union_of_rectangles
 
@Xeo Hmm.. yeah.
 
Or rectangle_union.
onion_of_circles
@Rapptz How about uniοn?
 
is there some Unicode trickery I'm missing?!
<functional> is so full of nonsense ;-;
std::hash?!
std::reference_wrapper?!
 
@Rapptz Omicron!
 
∪ aka \u222A
 
9:50 PM
@Rapptz terrible, you should use std::endl
 
:v
std::endl sucks
 
vOv if you used it, I'd be telling you it was terrible and you should just use "\n"
I told you I'd pick a hole though :P
 
I guess a perk of having 10k is that I get to see all these humiliatingly bad answers from people with high rep.
 
lol
 
@Rapptz What? Has Vlad actually had the decency to delete some of his so only 10K users can see them?
 
9:56 PM
right.
 
I actually haven't seen a deleted Vlad answer yet.
 
Oh wait--you said high rep. Have you found my "neck ties" answer yet?
 
I think that semantically, I already hooked up hiding, so I'll just need to expand my parser/lexer to support it.
 
@Rapptz someone reset the counter please
 
what do you think of something like, from base import type; as inheriting constructor syntax?
 
9:57 PM
I prefer that syntax for files/modules.
 
I guess that in this case, I don't really see a meaningful distinction between importing from a module and importing from a base class.
 
Woah the party is surprisingly taking off
I suspected nerd bullshit
 
That's not portable: en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/io/basic_ifstream/basic_ifstream - this is also the reason that boost::iostreams::file_source doesn't support wide string filenames (because it relies on std::fstream) - that boost issue #3088 is marked "WontFix" for this very reason. — sehe 11 secs ago
 
And js typing semantics are in minority compared to the amount of girls dancing
 
@BartekBanachewicz where!?
 
10:04 PM
Such a bad post.
 
How come?
 
You serious?
How much of a tool do you have to be to write this?
>
We stop upholding “fun” as the universal, ultimate criterion for a game’s relevance. It’s a meaningless ideal at best and a poisonous priority at worst. Fun is a neurological trick. Plenty of categorically unhealthy things are “fun”. Let’s try for something more. Many of the alternatives will have similarly fuzzy definitions, but let’s aspire to qualities like “edifying”, “healing”, “pro-social”, or even “enlightening”. I encourage you to decide upon your own alternatives to “fun” in games (while avoiding terms like “cool” and “awesome” and any other word that simply caters to existing, u
 
@BartekBanachewicz yet here you are
@Rapptz yeah fucl that. Games are for fun, end.
 
@Rapptz Well, it's elitist.
 
well, he's certainly right that a game could be things other than fun, but the reality is that most or all good things that it can be also make it fun.
 
10:07 PM
@thecoshman Not exactly.
What about survival horror games? They're not really about fun.
 
yes they are
 
yeah they are
 
they may be scary, but people play them to have fun
 
I've tried a lot of great games that were un-fun, recently.
 
user3010322
@Rapptz A pretty big tool, as it turns out.
 
10:08 PM
I mean, they weren't fun, but I still enjoyed them because they made me think about something.
 
user3010322
Geez, you couldn't stuff more pretentious bullshit into a few words.
 
You know, games are also an art form, and art isn't always about entertainment.
 
if a game is not meant to be fun, then it's not a game, it's some contrived art shit.
 
“@epasciuto: @NathanFillion I’m seeing my ex this weekend at a BBQ. What do you suggest I wear to piss him off?” A boyfriend.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz s/fun/enjoyable/g, done
 
10:09 PM
@sehe 3camp tech party
 
yayayaay
 
@thecosh I love you guys
 
My code is beautiful.
 
I love being here
I am sharing the amazing fun I'm having
 
@thecoshman It's still a game. It has rules. It's interactive.
 
10:10 PM
It's great
 
Xeo
@Griwes Always sad to see a relation end up with that - hate for each other
 
user3010322
@Xeo This is why we need more doggirls.
 
user3010322
And catgirls.
 
I won't fuckibng ask
 
I'm a catgirl.
 
10:11 PM
Just disappear with your weird bs
My perfect evening means no phds
2
 
Weird Bjarne Stroustrup.
 
@EtiennedeMartel noy-fun games are still games, they are just not good games. Art can be interacted with, it can have rules, it can still be art. If it has rules and interaction and is meant to be fun, it is a game, and it can be bad at that.
 
He's weird and C++razy.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD yay catgirls
@BartekBanachewicz shoo shoo
 
@thecoshman Just because fun is the only thing you derive from the games you play means it's the same thing for everyone else.
 
Xeo
10:12 PM
3 mins ago, by Xeo
@Rapptz s/fun/enjoyable/g, done
 
I have to admit
that post was terrible :v
 
Which post?
 
@thecoshman wow so deep
 
one I linked
 
Can you do a repost?
 
10:15 PM
Yes
 
It seems that a lot of people are getting angry over how gaming is changing.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'm not say it is. I can learn from games, either direct educational games or just games that teach me something. But if they are not fun, they are not good games.
 
I would just like gaming journalism to die already.
Not all of it
Just you know, a.. big chunk of it
 
and yes obviously, what I consider fun is my opinion.
 
10:17 PM
I installed Xming the moment ago and ran Eclipse through the SSH session. It was fun.
 
@Rapptz Most journalism.
Most journalism is sewer journalism.
 
@milleniumbug Exceed is better, but non-free.
 
@EtiennedeMartel What an amazing post.
 
@Rapptz You did not read all that in less than a minute.
 
now I'm done.
My sarcastic reply above still applies.
 
10:20 PM
you couldn't do this if tried :P
 
@EtiennedeMartel N.B.: How fast do you read?
 
@Rapptz I don't know. Took me a few minutes to read that.
 
Ell
I'm in an 80s bar
 
I see.
I feel like I've seen this guy.
he reminds me of..
The guy in this video: youtube.com/watch?v=JtFN8G0NN4M
Who goes 'you are no longer a respected developer'
I don't know what time but I love that video
:58
 
How did I never notice this user before:
 
10:24 PM
not as similar as I thought
.computer TLD?
 
@sehe you weren't being creepy?
@Rapptz probably
 
@thecoshman Oh. That's highly unusual
 
oh :P
@Rapptz huh... redirect...
 
it's a thong
 
who pays $40 a year for just a redirect?
 
10:28 PM
nklauza does
 
well... she does...
yes yes, we all saw that one coming didn't we
 
The atheists are right
That makes no sense!
 
@thecoshman Note, by the way, I asked because apparently shes in the (very very small) circle of people answer Boost Interprocess questions
@PolymorphicPotato Sue them
 
I could go the IS way and rape and slaughter them.
Much more fun.
 
@sehe hey, you don't have to defend yourself to me :P
 
user3010322
10:33 PM
@Rapptz Lol. Never change Japen indeed.
 
@sehe I still haven't.
@ThePhD I don't see how Western video games are better.
 
Cat rescued from car suspension... but... how did it get in?
 
user3010322
@StackedCrooked They aren't, but that's not the point.
 
user3010322
People are vending art. Art is not always the highest pursuit of intellect. Sometimes, it's just whatever sells a shitload of dollars.
 
@Rapptz I don't know if "tool" is the right word. Lots of people have a couple of reactions to many situations. One is the "we need to reexamine everything and start over from the ground up". The other is using whatever incident has come along as an excuse to push an agenda that's near and dear to that person's heart, regardless of the fact that it's quite unrelated to that incident. Both happen frequently enough that they don't really merit derogatory terms in response.
 
10:43 PM
@thecoshman It was conceived inside of it and grew.
 
lol
 
@JerryCoffin Dammit I understand nothing of all this fancy talk.
 
there was nothing fancy there
:<
 
hey, turns out @CatPlusPlus does get out every so often
 
10:58 PM
Here's a a screenshot from Sean Parent's talk at C++Now:
The C++ code on the current slide looks fancy.
 
looks like a bad slide to me
 
Btw
If you fuckers have any thoughts if visiting me is worth it
It is worth it
 
It is not.
 
sigh
I got banned from the suggested edit queue because I accidentally pressed 'Improve'
the last audit I failed was for the same reason
I press 'reject' but my mouse glances over to 'improve'.
annoying
 
ahahah. I've met my match in mouse ineptitude
 
11:09 PM
> Come back in 2 days to continue reviewing.
RIP.
 
@BartekBanachewicz get a grip
 
> Come bareback in 2 days to continue reviewing.
@sehe is that a Hawaii pizza with extra relief?
 
yes
 
I'll order one.
More relief means more surface area which means more FOOD.
Pizza-driven development.
 
@PolymorphicPotato Pizza-driven development is redundant.
 
11:46 PM
@sehe get a what
 
> I don't smell his pulse.
 
@Rapptz Don't you get super bored at that?
 
reviewing?
not really no
 
You are easily bored, usually
 

« first day (1413 days earlier)      last day (3538 days later) »